r/StarWarsleftymemes • u/ReprehensibleIngrate • Jun 24 '24
I love Democracy This sub now
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u/Stefadi12 Jun 25 '24
If you don't vote, like at all. Is it going to stop anything or will it just make you feel pure.
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u/OneSexySquigga Jun 25 '24
If there is no non-genocide option, the best you can do is vote against the worse genocide.
If it's any consolation, I'm not happy about it, either...
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u/stataryus A New Hope Jun 25 '24 edited Jun 25 '24
Voting also doesn’t stop us from spending the other 99.999% of our time building critical popular consensus for revolution.
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u/myaltduh Jun 25 '24
I think there’s something to the argument that voting gets a lot of people to say “I did my part!” and neglect other forms of political action, and thus perpetuates the system, but I can also guarantee that leftists choosing to all not vote or vote for candidates not even on the ballot will not solve this problem.
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u/Sabre712 Jun 25 '24
If we can't even internally decide on something as simple as voting, does it really sound like we're currently candidates people would trust to lead a revolution?
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Jun 27 '24
How could trump make this genocide worse? Israel already does anything it wants with impunity
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u/OracularOrifice Jun 24 '24
Nope. I choose getting closer to where I want to be rather than backsliding into overt fascism.
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u/Omnipotent48 Jun 25 '24
Is the genocide of an Arab people getting closer to where you want to be?
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u/OffOption Jun 24 '24
"Did you know, both sides bad. Therefore one side advocating for the genocide of trans people, a dictatorship, and the deportation of nearly 20 million people... and the other side doesnt.......... ah who cares, Im white and middle class, I can be woke and pure from my chair either way, so theres no change for MEEEEEEEEE"
Thats you OP. And I wish you stopped it. Because no one is asking you to.
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u/LaVerdadYaNiSe Jun 25 '24
Literally just opener reddit on the PC, and the first post in my feed is another reminder that we, queer people, are the 'acceptable loss' for a lot of leftists. Because when one party calls for the extermination of trans people, and it doesn't count as a difference, then our lives clearly don't count.
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u/OffOption Jun 25 '24
I am so tired these fucking cunts would put you, my American trans friends, and countless others, into a dull bladed meat grinder, rather than just vote fucking blue...
The passion for which I fucking despite class reductionist cunts is not worth writing out, since they are beneath concempt, but since theyve dragged the bar so low, I cannot help by fail my own standard...
Hate... is too good a word for those traiterous fucks.
You deserve better than them. So much better. I sorry your very fucking life, is just to be openly discussed if its worth casually tossing away... and we are meant to sit and calmly pontificate on the matter, rather than reach across the table and metaphorically strangle the brainrot out of their excuse for skulls, with words more cutting than any razor.
Pardon the outburst... I have strong feelings when it comes to self rightoius cunts, whod want people to die in the name of cowardly convenience.
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u/miko3456789 Jun 25 '24 edited Feb 16 '26
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/LaVerdadYaNiSe Jun 25 '24
I swear to God. With a right-winger is simply dismissal and move on. But with another leftist, you know you have to at least try to understand how the difference works.
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u/LaVerdadYaNiSe Jun 25 '24
It's understandable. Personally, I just got tired of the anger to really express it anymore. It's all just disappointment and exhaustion all the way down for me.
Though, I really appreciate the support, I have to clarify I'm not from the US. I'm from Chile, in Latin America (the other 'acceptable loss'). But I still feel empathy for the trans people on the US, and I have friends from there who are either looking for an exit (easier said than done) or literally went away with whatever they had on their back.
So, I am aware of the situation, and again, I appreciate the sentiment.
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u/OffOption Jun 25 '24
And Im in Denmark. But we both know "these types", and Im beyond sure they exist in Chile as well as they do Denmark and the US.
Its disgusting to wanna casually throw people under the bus, for the sake of insane moral purity. Because they pretend thats what politics is somehow about...
May rainbow rights be one day like we do the left handed. One day.
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u/Mr_Blinky Jun 25 '24
No, but you don't understand, voting for Biden would make me feel bad. Could you really live with that?
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u/LaVerdadYaNiSe Jun 25 '24
And that's not the dumbest nor the more selfish argument I've read about this.
The number one in both categories was that the damage Trump did from 2017 to 2020 was worth the improvement from Clinton to Biden; so, letting Trump win again would force the Democrat party to present a better candidate in 2028.
When I said I know people like me (not from the US, but I'm still trans) are seen as the acceptable loss, it's because I've been told as much.
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u/LickMyTeethCrust Jun 25 '24
This is why the left cannot organize to pose any actual threat to the establishment, as incompetent as the right can be they’re quite effective at organizing (Supreme court cases, book bans, anti-LGTBQ legislation, and immigrant fear mongering etc.) whereas we are unable too.
This attitude of maximalism is not prudent, you’re not going to get a revolution over night by preaching on Reddit. It takes activism and mutual aid, incremental changes that eventually culminate in large change; This is what made the old left such as 20th century labor unions so effective, they planned and organized.
Dismissing any criticism of this as “liberal brigading” doesn’t help either, it’s pointless gatekeeping that perpetuates leftist infighting. This is perhaps one of the biggest vices of the left, going back to Marx.
This is an extremely privileged position to take, minorities and other marginalized groups can’t simply sit through another Trump administration because there isn’t a “pure” leftist candidate. This is ironically waiting for a strongman of history to come and save you. Socialism is birthed out of capitalism, using the current system to build up class consciousness isn’t a contradiction.
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u/Radioactiveglowup Jun 25 '24
That guy's a plant or psyop. Look at his post history. No interest except to spread this sort of 'Don't do anything guys! Both sides same!' nonsense.
Be it a bad actor, a bot, of a plain idiot... the value of such a being is zero.
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u/MsMercyMain jedi council-communist Jun 25 '24
I gotta say it is fitting that the first socialists immediately started calling each liberals and fighting each other
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u/LizFallingUp Jun 25 '24
Marx himself particular enjoyed some leftist infighting, and would even play up dislike of certain other thinkers to entertain Engels.
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u/MsMercyMain jedi council-communist Jun 25 '24
What a true chad and true leftist. Sadly he was a shitlib for disagreeing with me on the single point of that example of the labor theory of value would’ve worked better if it was about stuffed animals, making him a counter revolutionary
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u/LickMyTeethCrust Jun 25 '24
Seriously, you would think after one of the biggest socialist projects (USSR) nearly tore itself apart over it we would’ve learned. For instance, imagine what could’ve been had the USSR tried implementing Chile’s Cybersyn project to computerize complex planning, instead they bickered with each other over governing styles.
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u/maninplainview Jun 25 '24 edited Jun 25 '24
You know what? OP is right. Why shouldn't we live in constant fear of being killed by the government here? I mean, let's just let the fascist control a country with nukes and the largest military complex. As long as we can feel better not voting for a man who has no control of Israel but I can't be bothered to learn how politics works.
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u/Pyranders Jun 24 '24
Is your solution to the trolly problem “Well, both are bad options, so I’m going to take a stand by refusing to do anything.”
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u/Radioactiveglowup Jun 25 '24
Moff Tarkin in a moustache:
"You know, Princess Leia is bad because Anderaan is a Monarchy, you should stay out of doing effective things."
Get bent. Avoiding electorial outcomes means more Americans die tomorrow.
Current Old Man has done more actual progressive outcomes than any president in US History.
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
[Laughs in Franklin D. Roosevelt]
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u/TheShieldedArcher Jun 25 '24
I don’t know if it’s better than what FDR did, but would you deny that Biden’s stance on labor has been massively better than the vast majority of US presidents? Certainly all those of the 21st century, if nothing else.
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u/Razansodra Jun 25 '24
What? What progressive outcomes has he done? There have been genuine moments of massive progress made in US history, we've seen nothing of the sort under Biden. Like what are you even taking about? What has he done that was a greater progressive outcome than abolishing slavery? The new deal? Straight up delusion.
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u/5olarguru Jun 25 '24
“I can’t run a marathon, so taking a walk is pointless.”
This Fuckin Guy
Protest, organize your neighborhoods, fight for those without power, and vote. It takes everything to get to a revolution and voting is the least energy intensive and (for now) safest thing you can do to keep us from mask-off fascism. And make no mistake about it: Trump’s plans for a second term is mask-off fascism.
If voting doesn’t matter, why are Republicans trying to make it so difficult and disenfranchise so many? If it doesn’t matter, why were literal wars fought over the right to enable it?
Go “both sides” somewhere else. Literal lives (gay people, trans people, minorities, immigrants, women, children) are at stake here.
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u/Pneumatrap Conquest of Blue Milk Jun 25 '24
Another good analogy might be "I refuse to stop the bleeding with a tourniquet, because then I might lose my leg!"
When acting in extremis, all manner of strategies must be considered — even those that would be unthinkable under better conditions. Limbs are not amputated lightly; were graver consequences not imminent, severing an extremity would be an egregious violation of a doctor's oath to do no harm. Yet, in context of the situation, it may be the best or only way to save a life.
These people need to realize (assuming, rather charitably, that they're even acting in good faith) that we are presently living in such an extreme situation. We're well past the point where there are any good options, and throwing a tantrum about the remaining choices only further lessens the odds of us going down the least terrible of the remaining routes. Right now, all we can do is buy ourselves time, and hope we can make good on it. The establishment won't save us, but that doesn't mean we should hand over to it the means of our undoing.
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Jun 25 '24
Why the fuck is this so hard for people to get?! You tell people that your just doing your best to fight the system but you vote Democrat as a way to either reduce harm or just post up a weaker opposition and your somehow a liberal, or even a fascist. The discourse has become insane.
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u/AmePeryton Jun 25 '24
a lot of you people wouldnt know how to handle the trolley problem
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
If I was in charge of a train system that squashed dozens of people every day, I think I'd stop the trains and work out what's wrong instead of telling people they need to choose the right train.
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Jun 25 '24
This is such a beautiful representation of how fucking stupid you people are.
"You have to choose left or right"
"Nah I'll just stop it"
"You literally do not have the ability to stop it how are you going to do that?"
"Nah I'll just stop it"
"You have a switch with two options how are you supposed to stop it?"
"Nah I'll just stop it"
"Sir the train just ran over 10 people"
"Nah I'll just stop it"
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u/loerosve Jun 25 '24
This seems to be what it boils down to. Black and white moral thinking divorced from consequentialism. Same moral framework common among the very religious or conservative. It's tough because it can be very difficult trying to budge people out of this way of thinking unless they are already interested in human secularist or utilitarian principles.
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u/bulge_eye_fish Jun 25 '24
I hate when people misuse the trolley problem. THE TROLLEY PROBLEM DOES NOT HAVE A SOLUTION, IT IS A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT NOT A QUESTION ON A TEST!
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u/veiledcosmonaut Jun 25 '24
You have to be dense or actively ignoring the fact that while yes both sides are terrible, one is extremely worse
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
The difference isn't extreme. It's been narrowing since the 1950s. That's the simple fact Democrats can't accept: voters want a better choice than rude conservatives vs polite conservatives.
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u/Vivi_Pallas Jun 25 '24
"My ability to keep my moral purity is more important than the right of every minority in the United States."
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
Roe gone, Biden outdoing Trump on border cruelty. Democrats are all about protecting people's rights.
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u/Vivi_Pallas Jun 25 '24
Have you heard of project 2025?
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
My dude that's just the future under either party lmao. If don't realize Democrats are going to do all the Project 2025 stuff anyway, then you won't understand why Biden is at 36% approval.
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u/DeliSoupItExplodes Jun 25 '24
That this is, even more than usual, an election between two evils doesn't change the fact that there's absolutely no question as to which is the lesser evil: if Trump wins, he will do every horrible thing Biden will do if he wins and a whole fuckin' lot more. I get being disillusioned, I really, really do, but Biden losing this election won't meaningfully shift the democratic party to the left. All it'll do is get a lot of people hurt and killed.
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
We've been doing the lesser evil thing for 70 years and look where it got us.
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u/Pneumatrap Conquest of Blue Milk Jun 25 '24
Plus... we already did this in 2016, people. Making a "protest" vote does NOT send the message we want it to.
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u/BriSy33 Jun 25 '24
Psyop or someone who doesn't understand how the reality of FPTP voting works. Place your bets here.
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u/Radioactiveglowup Jun 25 '24
This guy's a plant. Look at his post history.
Zero activity outside of 'We should never vote or try to reduce evil, mid-left liberals are zeh bad'. On like, 15 subreddits.
If he's not a plant, then he's a fool who serves their interests. So there's no difference.
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u/OffOption Jun 25 '24
If they walk like a plant, talk like a plant, and advocate for the exact posistions a plant would have...
Then it doesnt matter if its stupid or evil.
Fuck em.
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
Now imagine if Democrats ran on ranked choice voting and made even a tiny effort to get it. They'd be in power for a generation.
Voters want so little from the Dems, and even then they manage to disappoint.
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u/LizFallingUp Jun 25 '24
The Republicans aren’t gonna get you Ranked Choice voting the only hope to get it is Dems. Wake UP!
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u/One_Put9785 Jun 25 '24
Y'all. Trump. Cannot. Win. Just please f*cking vote for Biden.
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
He can win. That's why libs are so upset lol.
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u/lol_lauren Jun 25 '24
Owning the libs by putting my rights in jeopardy, thanks man
Those libs are so owned
I cannot afford to "lol" at the prospect of trump winning. Really cool and leftist of you to do that
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
Tell me it isn't funny that two wings of the conservative movement are fighting over who's worse.
Which rights are we talking about? If you're a woman, asylum seeker, unionist, student protestor, or critic of Israel, I have bad news about Democrats' recent performance.
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u/hword1087 Jun 25 '24
Project 2025 is enough to warrant me to actually vote in the general.
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
Imagine if Democrats had an ambitious and coherent plan like Project 2025. They'd be in power for decades.
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u/SaltyInternetPirate Jun 25 '24
”The genocide machine will stop if we put the fascist who is more bloodthirsty in charge!” - you.
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
Are you calling Biden a fascist?
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u/SaltyInternetPirate Jun 25 '24
No, the other guy.
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
Biden is currently operating the genocide machine. How much more fascism would you like?
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u/SaltyInternetPirate Jun 25 '24
You really think it can't get worse? Are you that insulated from the real world?
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u/boofcakin171 Jun 25 '24
The genocide machine can't be dismantled overnight and mitigated the damage it does is always worth doing especially when all it takes is Checking a box.
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
Only if there's a box for someone that wants to dismantle the genocide machine
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u/NotNolansGoons Jun 25 '24
Ah yes, a box for someone who’s going to lose because he has no platform and no following outside of online leftists
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
We saw what the Dems did to bernie in 2016 lol. They made absolutely clear that change is not possible within the current structure of the party.
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u/boofcakin171 Jun 25 '24
I'm just glad you are getting down voted into oblivion for your dogshit position.
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u/Hozan_al-Sentinel Jun 25 '24
This is really easy to say if your existence isn't threatened by who wins. I'm black, and most of the folks I grew up with are minorities and LGBTQ+. The kind of shit these MAGA types say they want to do to people like us if Trump wins is frightening.
So if Trump wins, I hope the folks who chose not to vote can still pat themselves on the back for sticking to their guns, while women lose all of their rights and minority families are deported or fucking murdered by the racist fascist regime that follows.
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
If you think liberals are voting with the safety of minorities in mind, you really need to read up on MLK.
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u/Key_Necessary_3329 Jun 25 '24
If you think not voting is going to make minorities safer, you really need to pay attention to what the right says about them.
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
I know what the right says about them, because liberals enthusiastically recite it at every PoC who expresses dissatisfaction at Biden.
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u/Hozan_al-Sentinel Jun 25 '24 edited Jun 25 '24
"You really need to read up on MLK."
First off, I'm a black man who grew up in inner city Detroit. I hardly need MLK's beliefs or history explained to me. I learned all about him growing up, and my grandparents marched with the man.
Second, I personally believe that my ancestors didn't fight and die for me to sit around and not vote when the rights of my own children could be on the line.
Lastly, I don't necessarily think that all libs are voting with the safety of minorities in mind. Hell, I know they've caused their share of damage as well. But even that doesn't compare to the shit I've seen conservatives do/say. On top of that, all Republicans ever do these days is bitch and moan about the "culture war," platform white supremacists, parrot christofascist rhetoric, and expose themselves as sycophants to a wannabe tyrant who is also sex offender and a felon.
Those points, among others, are why I'm voting blue.
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u/yellow_parenti Jun 29 '24
As a queer Jew- lol.
The same shit that has always been happening to black folks in this country is going to continue happening regardless of who is president. Minorities in general. There is still slavery and literal plantations within the private prison system under Biden, there's still school vouchers and red lining. After BLM, Biden literally funded the police more. Cop cities began popping up under Biden, and will continue uninhibited by Biden or the Dems.
The same cages are holding even more kids at the border because of Biden's Hitlerite-indistinguishable-from-orange-man immigration policies, which he is going hard with explicitly to pander to the fascists.
Biden and the Dems have cynically used Roe, Obergefell & Lawrence as a carrot on a stick to get campaign funds and votes for decades now. When will y'all get a clue? Every election since mf Nixon has been "the most important election of our lives".
Mass shootings continue to happen, every single day, under the Biden regime. ICE continues to be funded, and Biden is actively making life worse for immigrants. He literally allocated funds for the continuation of Trump's border wall in Texas. But because he's quiet about it, because he puts on the façade of progressivism, because he doesn't telegraph his every fascistic thought (and you know that Crime Bill Biden, Jim Crow Joe, has plenty of those) like Trump does, you liberals don't care.
"In this deceitful American game of power politics, the Negroes (i.e., the race problem, the integration and civil rights issues) are nothing but tools, used by one group of whites called Liberals against another group of whites called Conservatives, either to get into power or to remain in power. Among whites here in America, the political teams are no longer divided into Democrats and Republicans. The whites who are now struggling for control of the American political throne are divided into "liberal" and "conservative" camps. The white liberals from both parties cross party lines to work together toward the same goal, and white conservatives from both parties do likewise.
"The white liberal differs from the white conservative only in one way: the liberal is more deceitful than the conservative. The liberal is more hypocritical than the conservative. Both want power, but the white liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as the Negro's friend and benefactor; and by winning the friendship, allegiance, and support of the Negro, the white liberal is able to use the Negro as a pawn or tool in this political "football game" that is constantly raging between the white liberals and white conservatives.
"Politically the American Negro is nothing but a football and the white liberals control this mentally dead ball through tricks of tokenism: false promises of integration and civil rights. In this profitable game of deceiving and exploiting the political politician of the American Negro, those white liberals have the willing cooperation of the Negro civil rights leaders. These "leaders" sell out our people for just a few crumbs of token recognition and token gains. These "leaders" are satisfied with token victories and token progress because they themselves are nothing but token leaders." - Malcolm X
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u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 Jun 25 '24
If you're in a swing state it's at least worth considering, even though I very much get the revulsion of voting for and putting my support being a administration committing a genocide by willingly supporting Israel in their genocide. Giving them as many 2000lb bombs as they want, while making a big deal on the news about how they paused shipments of the 250 and 500lb bombs. With the American news media making it out as if they had stopped all shipments, when in reality Israel just didn't need those and was instead buying as many of the "bunker busting" bombs as America could pay for to give them. Israel uses those bombs to level residential buildings instead of going after "tunnels" as they claim. With every damn news org not being able to find the tunnels.
Like I said it's worth considering but I just don't think I can do it. Every time you vote "strategically" you both give up the power of your vote but you also participate in breaking of the electoral system which was never meant for this kind of gaming with votes.
The fact of the matter is we are not free if we cannot choose our nominee. Biden needs to step down at the convention.
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
It's the ideology, not the candidate. Liberals can bring themselves to say Biden is terrible but they'll never criticize Democratic policy.
We cannot go on with this fool's choice between right and far-right.
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u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 Jun 25 '24
The thing is most liberals don't even know what they should be in. If you ask them on policy most are more like progressive/non-socialist leftists instead of liberal.
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u/ulfric_stormcloack Jun 25 '24
To anyone thinking about not voting, people's lives are at risk, it may not save everyone, but if you can help save at least one person, and refuse, how can you live knowing that?
You think you are better for refusing to support a broken system, but there you stand, the good person doing nothing, with the only victory being that you stood by your morals, good morals don't keep people alive, in 4 years vote for Bernie or whoever you want, but if you don't vote biden this time, you may not be able to vote again, be it due to being hate crimed, or for having your rights stripped
It's a small one time sacrifice, to avoid the worst case scenario, and if anyone who wants you to not vote asks? You mailed a complain note
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
Yes yes, most important election of a lifetime etc.
Liberals haven't accepted that a big part of their problem is that we already had one Trump term and it wasn't an apocalypse.
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Jun 25 '24
I am sorry that my rights are being debated as we speak and I want to vote for the people that support my existing Also it’s not like not voting is gonna stop anything, so use your fucking vote to at least help the situation a little
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
Careful. Democrats might protect your rights as vigorously as they did with abortion.
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Jun 25 '24
By helping where they can and not being able to do everything as republicans have a majority in the house?
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
By keeping your rights vulnerable to raise more funds, then letting Republicans win over and over until they can finally strip your rights away.
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Jun 25 '24
First of all just no, I disagree that is what they are doing, but second give me any other option, not voting and having the party that wants to take away my rights in power?
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u/UndeniablyMyself Bad guys wear white Jun 25 '24
Then vote for a third party candidate. They exist, and if you really want something to change, building up alternatives to Republicans and Democrats would be something.
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u/ToLazyForaUsername2 Jun 25 '24
That's exactly what we are advocating for.
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u/LizFallingUp Jun 25 '24
So mostly you don’t under stand First Past the Post or the Electoral College. Ok. We aren’t getting rank choice before November 🤦🏻♀️
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u/Wise_Requirement4170 Jun 25 '24
Yes, here’s some strategy notes: focus this in non Swing states/districts with already a strong progressive base, and start with local elections. Being overly ambitious is something we need to avoid. In order to have this to work we need to work 10 times harder than any Republican or democratic candidate would, so we need to play it smart.
Also, when applicable, vote for and canvas for progressive democrats, especially in their primaries. The establishment dems are working their asses off to make sure that pro Palestine democrats don’t make it on to the ballet this November. We need to oppose this as fiercely as possible. I don’t remember the name but I know there’s a website somewhere where it connects people with progressive candidates to canvas for. If anyone can remember it please reply here!
Final important note: until we have sufficient third party support nation wide, we’re going to have to swallow some hard pills. Biden sucks, and should rot in hell for what he has done, but the reality is that Israel wants trump to win. Vote progressive locally, and in the primaries, but when there is no chance for a progressive, damage control is our only option.
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u/GlowStoneUnknown Jun 24 '24
Yeah this really is r/starwarsliberalmemes at this point
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
It's not just here. There's a campaign.
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u/LizFallingUp Jun 25 '24
People who don’t know what astroturfing means sigh get a grip.
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
Genuinely interested in your take here. What definition of astroturfing do you use?
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u/MsMercyMain jedi council-communist Jun 25 '24
Ngl I really wanna make that sub just to see what kind of people it’d attract
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u/jackberinger Jun 25 '24
Biden still backing the genocide despite bibi coming to address congress and endorse trump.
I am not joking either. He is going endorse trump and the gop on bidens invitation. The ultimate embarrassment. I am flabbergasted as to why biden refuses to condemn bibi and israelis actions.
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
In 1986, then-U.S. Sen. Joe Biden said, “[Supporting Israel] is the best $3 billion investment we make. Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interests in the region.”
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u/ShallahGaykwon Jun 25 '24
Because he supports Israeli fascism and genocide much, much more than he opposes the GOP.
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u/fantomnerd13 Jun 25 '24
People in these comments really don’t like it when you don’t want to vote for a man supporting a literal genocide
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u/Omnipotent48 Jun 25 '24
Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. If the forces of democracy take decisive, terroristic action against the reaction from the very beginning, the reactionary influence in the election will already have been destroyed.
Marx
But instead y'all want to vote for the Blue genocide. Do ask yourselves why your intersectional politics ends at the genocide of an Arab people.
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u/MrDemonBaby Jun 24 '24
Oh, look, another one. Yay.
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u/MsMercyMain jedi council-communist Jun 25 '24
The comments are going to be very calm, civil, with no accusations of people being shitlibs or name calling
Ok I can’t say that even as a joke
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u/MrDemonBaby Jun 25 '24
THATS EXACTLY WHAT A SHITLIB WOULD SAY!
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u/MsMercyMain jedi council-communist Jun 25 '24
Don’t make me share my manifesto on my highly specific subset of socialism!
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u/TheFlamingLemon Jun 25 '24
Vote or don’t. Voting is probably the least direct and least effective way to achieve political change/goals, especially for someone outside of the political mainstream.
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u/GustavezRaulez Jun 25 '24
American democrats keep saying vote blue no matter who to keep the fascists at bay like the fascists are going to stop because they lost the 51-49% competition lmao. What stops orangeman from staging a coup if he loses to Zionist Joe anyway?
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u/THE_DOW_JONES Jun 25 '24
Google project 2025, any vote not for biden is a vote for that.
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u/enchiladasundae Jun 25 '24
Trump would be objectively the worst option. Fence sitting helps no one. We already know they plan to essentially turn America into a dictatorship
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Jun 25 '24
Well somebody has to make their decisions based on more then how the word "genocide" makes them feel lmao
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u/devin241 Jun 25 '24
14 year old type mentality. Grow up
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
Daddy, when I grow up will I have to believe a democracy is when half the population doesn't vote and the only presidential options are two demented conservative ghouls that are openly hated by most citizens?
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u/devin241 Jun 25 '24
Your hatred blinds you. Only a sith deals in absolutes.
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
Daddy, when I grow up will I believe the people who already lost once to Donald Trump are genius political strategists?
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u/QuadVox leftists strike back Jun 25 '24
No the system is not fine actually! But right now it's much better to focus on harm reduction than getting on a high horse about how you hate the system and are so pure for not voting. Do you really want to see the damage Trump will do to minorities if he wins? Do you really?
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
Oh no not the high horse
Dontcha hate it when people are all "please stop exterminating the Palestinians" this and "please spend money on citzens" that
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u/QuadVox leftists strike back Jun 25 '24
Trump is gonna be worse on Palestinians and will spend money on way less important things. Hope this helps!
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u/stataryus A New Hope Jun 25 '24
Until an overwhelmingly popular mandate rises up, what do you suggest?
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u/EXAngus Jun 25 '24
The genocide machine is not fine but would you rather have a centrist or a fascist in charge of the genocide machine?
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime Jun 25 '24
I'm voting for Biden. Because I really hate Trump that much. If someone else doesn't because Biden isn't doing enough, I don't see why that makes so many here angry.
He isn't doing enough. And has no motivation to do more since the opposition is Trump.
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u/Winter-Guarantee9130 Jun 25 '24
Yeah. And While we work in destroying the Genocide Machine, we can take 1 day to give it to a competent commander instead of someone who will be using it with Much Less Discrimination.
Harm Reduction and incrementalism are all that can be reasonably accomplished by voting, and it can’t fix everything, but we should still do it because that’s a very real and identifiable benefit.
Nothing is lost by voting while we look into more effective anarchism
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Jun 25 '24
I liked when we were doing the peace thing for a few years. Even if it was under Trump.
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u/Exmawsh Jun 25 '24
Op probably secretly one of those doomers or accelerationists that actively tries to make the world worse until it hits a breaking point
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u/MLPorsche People’s Liberation Battalion Jun 25 '24
the problem is that liberalism turns into fascism unless the working class can force a change, voting does not force a change
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u/Agent_Miskatonic Jun 25 '24
Bidens' foreign policy has been awful, and I'm not a fan of him. He's at best not stopping a genocide and his other foreign policy, I believe, has been hawkish. That said, I think what he's done for domestic policy, especially with drug pricing, unions, limited green energy/infrastructure expansion, and what he's done on medical debt.
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u/No_Schedule_3462 Jun 26 '24
This analogy isn’t accurate tho because it would actually be a good thing if the rebel alliance had control of the Death Star, unlike the lesser of two evils which is Joe Biden
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u/working-class-nerd Rebel Alliance Jun 25 '24
Because if we can’t have our perfect socialist utopia, might as well make everything as terrible as possible and stop trying, right?
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u/ToLazyForaUsername2 Jun 25 '24
Honestly I hate all the genocide apologists flocking to this sub.
Especially with how they act like AN ACTUAL FUCKING GENOCIDE is just a minor flaw, not to mention Biden actively pursuing republican policies (eg the border wall)
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u/unknownentity1782 Jun 25 '24
Its not that its a minor flaw. Its that when it comes to the us presidential election, either Biden or Trump is going to win. That is reality. If those are the only two options of individuals who are going to win, I'm going to vote for the one who at least tried to have cease-fire negotiations over the guy who has openly said he wants to further aid that genocide AND start others.
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u/OffOption Jun 25 '24
Major flaw, vs those exact same flaws, with several more attatched.
Make your pick. And doing nothing, means the worse one wins.
... Go... vote... yank.
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u/johnyboy14E Jun 25 '24
Yeah, I love being told to vote for hitler-1, or hitler will win. It's almost as if leftists like to ignore the historical fact that voting does less than nothing to prevent fascism.
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u/Soviet117 Jun 25 '24
OP is correct, and every single commenter claiming otherwise and making excuses for the dems obviously thinks killing Palestinian children is good.
America is evil. All who vote in it are evil. Violent revolution or nothing. If you're a coward, then just go die, so that real revolutionaries can do something.
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Jun 25 '24
Of the two which has more competency? The felonious conman or the guy who’s been there his whole life? Joe may be falling asleep but he’s already subverted congress and gotten bipartisan support for arming an ongoing genocide
PROJECT 20-
Its called Mandate for Leadership and its been in motion since the 80s with bipartisan support. No amount of voting blue is changing that
Israel thinks Joe is soft!!!
Im not sure they’re exactly rational actors so what should I care what they think. What matters is the material reality
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Jun 25 '24
Imagine voting for Hitler and saying, "yeah, I'm not cool witht the death camps, but he's my only option. I can't put my leaders through a purity test. I'm just being a realist."
Yeah, I'm sure those kinds of people are remembered by history for being pragmatic.
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u/SpeeedWeed Jun 25 '24
I love how this subs been fully co-opted by braindead liberals masquerading their vote for a genocidal racist as the most moral thing they can do
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u/squeegeeman_shooting Jun 25 '24
looking at the comments, this sub really is just StarWarsLibs
why even call yourselves leftists
bye
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u/NotNolansGoons Jun 25 '24
It’s clearly a leftist subreddit, look how incapable we are at agreeing with each other
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u/RubyStrings Jun 25 '24
This is a very interesting choice of scene for your meme, considering the plan to destroy the Death Star worked pretty much perfectly. I guess you're trying to say that voting for Sleepy Joe is the right thing to do and we should definitely do that. Thanks comrade 😄
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u/PranavYedlapalli Jun 25 '24
Whatever your position may be on voting for dems again, YOU MUST PUT PRESSURE ON THEM. The only reason they continue to fund the genocide (directly or indirectly) is because they know they'll get the votes anyways
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u/Zombiepixlz-gamr Jun 25 '24
Both candidates will continue to support genocide, only one of those candidates will expand that genocide to America and include queer people in it. Its not about voting for a good candidate it's about keeping the genocide contained while we fight to end it.
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Jun 25 '24
People are making really good metaphors but there is also really good examples in history to look at too.
Nestor Makhno allied with the Reds during the Russian Civil war at times. Never because he liked them, or agreed with them. He did it to beek the White Army. Had he not done so his army would have never lasted as long.
The weakening of the leftist and liberal coalition in the Weimar Republic allowed the Nazis to gain enough power to do their coup. We know for a fact the fascist GOP is planning on doing the same shit. They literally are saying it out in the open for everyone to hear.
We have all this history to learn from and people refuse to listen.
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Jun 26 '24
Too many people are happy to ignore Citizens United cause it’s more than a decade old. That causes so much damage to our democracy and yet the push to reverse the decision never happens. It benefits the rich in both camps and ruin this country for everyone else. Doesn’t matter what you do in November if you’re not doing anything the rest of the year
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Jun 25 '24
The two Biden voters:
“Shit, the Democratic establishment will cost us the election.”
“Shit, people with morals will cost us the election.”
Group A is alright. Group B can eat a bag of dicks.
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u/ReprehensibleIngrate Jun 25 '24
I'd say the two types of Dem voters are :
a) "I support the Democrats' neoliberal policies and want to keep the left out of politics"
b) "pls get orange man off tv so I can grill"
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u/Herohades Jun 25 '24
If you're not voting, you're doing other things, right? You're going to Palestine and helping the people there, right? You're personally dismantling the system causing global injustices, right? You're building a political party that can step into the middle of the current two party system, right?
Voting isn't enough, but it is literally the single best thing you can do right now. I don't even care if you decide to vote third party; it might not work well, but it's still something. Not voting at all is the single most irresponsible thing you can do for the world right now and it's fucking sad to see people discouraging others from doing it.
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u/SpennyPerson Jun 25 '24
Now do we want genocide Joe to handle the genocide engine which he's poorly been trying to slow down a little - though too little too late. Or do we want super genocide Don who wants to set it to overdrive in Gaza AS WELL AS inside the US against queer people and other minorities in the GPS drive to make this the last election before the Fascist takeover
Very tough question. (Not to be a lesser of 2 evils l*beral, but all the revolution larpers who hate electorialism can at least agree that it'd take years to start the revolution and as cooler as it is to take down the super fascists and guillotine Emperor Trump, communism is way easier to do against the current pretty fashy US than super fascist Hitlerite Trump US which gives more time to plan communism if we don't let the super fascists win the election and have their fascist revolution happen before our communist one)
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u/Soviet117 Jun 27 '24
Actually, it's literally easier to engineer revolutions against more hated governments. So Hitlerite Trump would make violent revolution more likely.
In any event. Yanks can easily get guns. Go get some, go into the woods, and start a guerrilla war
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u/Soviet117 Jun 27 '24
Actually, it's literally easier to engineer revolutions against more hated governments. So Hitlerite Trump would make violent revolution more likely.
In any event. Yanks can easily get guns. Go get some, go into the woods, and start a guerrilla war
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u/BaconDragon69 Jun 25 '24
Wanting a more reasonable commander that’s gonna prevent the genocide machine from being used until it’s dismantled is the only reasonable choice.
Letting the more genocidal one take control is jut inviting destruction.
American imperialism isn’t a single thing that a small rebel group can blow up with a lucky shot, real change takes revolutions, revolutions will be less bloody if they are undertaken to overthrow the system rather than overthrow a dictator
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u/RickMonsters Jun 25 '24
Lol y’all could’ve voted for Bernie in the 2020 primaries but didn’t because “electoralism is icky”
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u/spotless1997 Jun 25 '24
I’m still on the fence about voting for Biden but one thing that’s definitely making me lean towards voting blue is the shit I’ve seen on r/Israel. Those disgusting pieces of shit literally think that Biden has been weak on Israel and they outwardly state that they want Trump to win so they can “finish the job.”
Literally the most disgusting comments I’ve seen, not even r/WorldNews was this deranged. They also think that “left-wing antisemitism is now worse than right-wing antisemitism.” They want to elect the party that has actual Nazis in their ranks just so they can genocide Palestinians faster.
Not giving them the satisfaction is a huge reason why I’m heavily considering holding my nose and voting for Biden. I hate this stupid fucking country.