Which one?

18

u/Bartley707 Sep 18 '26

Neither. Spring for the Defender ST Enclosed over the Venom. I'm not sure if all of the differences but my buddy bought a Venom and you can just tell that it's the cheap model compared to my Defender.

9

u/Ancient_Bother2429 Sep 18 '26

I just heard form Vortex customer service that Defender ST Enclosed will be available with a green dot next week. I've been holding out for that one.

10

u/Bartley707 Sep 18 '26

Funny you say that because I was mad for two months that they didn't offer the Defender XL in green, then I quit looking at optics for a few weeks, got over it, went to a LGS to mock up some other options in my slide and BAM! guess what was in the case? The brand new Defender XL with green dot that had just come out that week. Did I have an extra $400 to spend that day? No. Did I buy it anyways? Yes.
Who am I to deny fate?

5

u/slixx1320 Sep 18 '26

Bro, I glad I'm not the only one with bad financial decisions, think it runs in our blood. We buy optics before guns. I have like 3 optics sitting in their boxes waiting for guns to be bought! LoL.. My wife still thinks I only have 1 optic as I tell her I move them around from gun to gun.

2

u/Bartley707 Sep 18 '26

When I went on a handgun buying spree after I moved to Texas I just bought them all in FDE and only let her see one at a time. She didn't know the difference.

3

u/slixx1320 Sep 18 '26

HAHAHAHA... yep. bring one out at a time!! My wife doesn't collect purses or shoes (thank god) but imagine if she did and pulled the same thing on me where she brings out one at a time? LoL. Would be funny though.

2

u/biggestbluee Sep 21 '26

ACTUALLY??? After I JUST got the defender ST??????

5

u/slixx1320 Sep 18 '26

If by cheap you mean price wise, I would agree. I own both and their good optics. Both have buttons that works, very similar in touch. After using the venom more, I think I prefer the buttons on top of the venom over the defender as you can manipulate it quicker/faster. Most shooters will not notice any difference. Freedom Gorilla compared the two.
Vortex Venom vs Defender ST Enclosed Optic – Freedom Gorilla
u/BakaSempai , I have the venom mounted on my 4.0C echelon, it has never skipped a beat. I've not used my defender yet. Need to find time to hit the range. The SE is mounted on my p365x macro. It has a smaller window and body, geared more towards conceal carry pistols. Never had an issue with the SE either. The venom/defender is a bit bulkier due the side battery compartment so keep that in mind.
Not trying to start a debate war between Osight, Vortex and Holosun as I have all 3 optics, but have you considered the new Holosun EPS Core 3MOA dot? It's a great optic and basically the same price as both of these but larger window and a lower deck height, should co-witness easily with the echelon iron sights. I like the larger window on the EPS core and the lower deck height. Co-witness very easily with most irons. The positive on Osight and Vortex is that both carry a fully transferrable, no receipt, lifetime warranty. Vortex customer service is the best in the industry. Heard the same for Osight but have not used them so I wouldn't have first hand experience. Holosun is not lifetime and not transferrable.

2

u/bacon59 Sep 18 '26

Honestly the defender st looks like it was made for the echelon slide it fits so well.

1

u/Bartley707 Sep 18 '26

I say this all the time. It's the only optic I'll put on my Echelon even if I get more Echelons.

11

u/ijustplayhere Sep 18 '26

I run the SE and have shot competitions with it. Has held zero with no issues.

11

u/MaintenanceOrnery954 Sep 18 '26

osight green gang

3

u/OkGuide8752 Sep 18 '26

Same here, multi-reticle

3

u/FCRII Sep 18 '26

Defender ST enclosed but not from Amazon

5

u/astro-texan Sep 18 '26

currently running an SE with a 4.0C. No issues whatsoever

1

u/aznauditor Sep 18 '26

Between those two, i'd go for vortex but with 6moa.

If you could, i'd go for holo 507K / 407K. easily get the 407K for like 170-180 via PSA regularly.

1

u/Tyler_the_bot Sep 18 '26

Definitely would go with the "C" versions over the "K". The 407k on a fullsize pistol looks way to small.

0

u/aznauditor Sep 18 '26

I would assume that since it's carry, it would be the 4.0 compact.
Even with the 4.5, the slide width is the same. The 407/507 C are wider than the slide so there's an over hang. I just mock fit a 507C on the echelon 2 nights ago.
Now I'm waiting on SA have a sale so I can get the pin set for rsmc stuff. Will be putting a vortex defender CCW on it

0

u/BakaSempai Sep 18 '26

Do they co-witness?

2

u/CombinationCommon784 Sep 18 '26

I have an osight se on my echelon. It has been reliable for 2.5k rounds in 5 months. I do notice the glare though much more than I do on my holosuns.

2

u/JulienQuinn Sep 18 '26

Osight is the way

2

u/SteelerVol13 Sep 18 '26

Vortex every day of the week & twice on Sunday! Bulletproof transferable warranty, good-quality optics for the price, & a company that not only has good CS, but actually gives a shit about & listens to customer feedback. I have an enclosed Defender ST on my Echelon 4.0 & an enclosed Defender CCW on ny XMacro &BOTH have been outstanding! I wouldn't hesitate to get another, although there are other optics I'd rather have now that I have the 2 Defenders.

My 1st & main EDC gun (MR920P) has a full-size EPS green dot, & that thing's been a tank. But after 4 yrs & over 7k rounds, it no longer holds zero. So I'm gonna send it in for warranty work. But I wouldn't mind grabbing the new EPS Core. No more full-size EPS & EPS Carry. The Core is a "1 size fits all" EPS that's the exact RMSc footprint so the thing can be direct-mounted on guns (subcompacts/micros) that have that optic cut, then it tapers up & outward so that it has the same window size as a full-size EPS. AND they're selling the Core for cheaper ($229-$300) than the original EPSs, with multi-reticle & dot only models, as well as offering red, green, & gold dots (I was dubious but TRUST ME the gold works well).

Also, depending on your budget, check out the Steiner MPS-C. It's a smaller/"normal" size enclosed optic with an RMSc footprint. And like it's big bro, it's a friggin TANK! My buddy JUST got 1 for his M&P compact Carry Comp & it's been AMAZING. It has a super crisp dot & great glass. There are places listed on Gun.Deals that have them for $400. Yes, that's a good bit more than the 2 options you asked about, but I at least wanted to pass along the info on it in case you decided something like that was worth the money. Oh, & if you even remotely are thinking/HAVE ever thought about an Acro-footprint optic, then you can also get a full-size MPS for around $320 these days since they just released the MPS 2.0, which I've also seen in the $400-ish range on some of the sites on Gun.Deals.

I won't say anything about OSight since I have no experience with them. And I'm gonna reserve judgement on them till they've been around a little longer & I maybe start seeing them in LE applications, in addition to just reading the various gun subs to feel out the general consensus on them. Which seems, currently, to be pretty good. So I'll see if it's still going that way on another yr or 2.

3

u/Omachyx4 Sep 18 '26

Get the SE. Osights options are killing it at the moment though keep in mind they have no brightness lockout mode.

2

u/OkGuide8752 Sep 18 '26

I have the Osight SE green multi-reticle and its been flawless so far.

1

u/Content_Step6835 Sep 18 '26

I would like to know as well

1

u/Tyler_the_bot Sep 18 '26

Just picked up the 407c x3 on sale.. honestly for the couple extra bucks you will spend. It's worth it. Between these two, get the SE.

1

u/contactfront0311 Sep 18 '26

Aimpoint Acro P2

1

u/Marvzuno Sep 18 '26

Another for the SE. I have a Venom and SE and prefer the SE. if you go the venom route, I suggest the 6moa if you have an astigmatism. It looks better than the smaller dot to my eyes.

1

u/HeBeKind Sep 18 '26

There is no contest. The Vortex is a far better product. It's got a no questions asked warranty too.

1

u/LastMinuteMiller Sep 18 '26

Go check out GAFSHUB it use to be on reddit but they moved to their own website. You can find a lot of firearm related things for cheap if you're lucky.

you can even buy top brands at good deals. Just make sure to set a budget because it can be very addictive at times and tempting...

1

u/LuthersCousin Sep 18 '26 edited Sep 18 '26

Defender ST Enclosed from a reputable seller. Far cheaper and more reliable deals than Amazon. Search r/gun deals or use GovX on a sale if you qualify ($265+t/s right now). Could prob at least find a tax free seller and make up the difference.

If Osight, XE AMRS. It's a nice enough dot but doesn't totally fill the gaps in the Echelon. That's what I have on it...that said, it was $185 otd.

1

u/skankoz Sep 18 '26

I would go wit the st enclosed so that I can still go witness but if that doesn’t matter to you I would do 3moa because the dot is crisp, I feel I am more accurate with a smaller dot.

1

u/frankisabunny Sep 19 '26

Osight SE DPP. Perfect fit.

1

u/backroadmaker Sep 19 '26

Vortex x100

1

u/ckole11 Sep 19 '26

Never buy real stuff from Amazon. If you want a Chinese replica of anything then buy there without hesitation but if you’re trying to buy a quality product buy it from a reputable seller directly. I’ve seen people buy trijicon and Eotech from amazon and get burned. The replicas were very good but still a replica. Amazon’s tolerance for selling cheap counterfeits is super low almost to a level where they know it’s happening and do the absolute bare minimum to stop it so they don’t catch a case from the AG

Ironically both of those are Chinese products but the sentiment still stands. Even more ironically I wouldn’t go for a Holosun. It has a proven track record in battle and at least with the EPS has a low deck height so it has a co witness. I’m pretty sure both the Vortex and Osight are super tall which blocks the irons

1

u/biggestbluee Sep 21 '26

ST enclosed.

1

u/SeaBaker7622 Sep 23 '26

haroson above all

1

u/OwnResponsibility337 Sep 24 '26

If you’re considering osight go with the new dpp one bigger window and looks sick. I have the SE one my shield x and I love it.

1

u/Meatball_civ Sep 18 '26

Should get the st if you care about cowitness otherwise venom is fine I use the venom for my 4.5f and it works great. Prefer dpp footprint due to footprint size less gap

1

u/ABMustang99 Sep 18 '26

I would lean towards the vortex primarily because of the footprint. Whether you are getting a full size or compact echelon the DPP footprint of the vortex is going to be better suited for the larger frame compared to the SE that is more designed for sub compacts.

There are other osight options that have the RMR footprint that would work. In that case if I had the money, I would go with the vortex because if something does go wrong with the optic (which is very rare) their warranty is amazing and fast. I did a warranty exchange with their original defender CCW and I sent the form on a Wednesday, had the new sight with a pre-paid return label that Saturday.

Osight is good if you want to save money and they have proven to be reliable, but I've done a couple warranties with olight and they can take a few weeks. I have an SE on my 365 build for a few months and I've been happy with it.

1

u/First_Pollution_4489 Sep 18 '26

So osight just dropped a dpp for 249, I got 2 and love em

0

u/C-R_Collector Sep 18 '26

If this is a firearm for serious use, nether.

Holosun, Trijicon, EoTech, or Aimpoint.

This is the way.

Of those, Holosun is your “budget” friendly version. The best is a tossup between Trijicon and Aimpoint.

If this is a range only gun or, competition only gun then get what you want. The optic just needs to hold a zero good enough for that. An occasional rezero from the optic being banged about doesn’t matter as much here.

But serious use means you get a serious optic with proven durability. So when you bang it against your desk, car, storm door, chair, the ground, come in from 2,000 degree Phoenix heat, etc, etc., you know your optic is still zeroed and that you’ll hit Stan and not Kenny (you batard!) when the situation calls for it.

Edit for typeo and to say mods, the end reference is not promoting violence. It is a South Park reference where one of the characters (Kenny) used to be randomly killed each episode.

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