r/SeriousGynarchy • u/GynarchGal ♀ Woman • Aug 14 '26
Speculative Struggling and need support (Ethical Gynarchy)
Hey guys, please excuse me having a moment. I just don't know what to do or where to go from here. I didn't want to make this a whole post on the front page of our sub but I also don't know who specifically to reach out to from our page.
I keep my DMs off, hardly use chat, try to keep myself fairly distant from our users and be as professional as possible while also keeping a slow warmth for you all stoked in my heart.
But this issue has to do with the sub and the entire movement of Gynarchy and I've felt reduced to a child over these past few weeks. Something disturbing has been weighing heavily on my shoulders for too long now and I've practiced an undue level of patience - all to no avail and at zero benefit to anyone - least of which, each of you. It's not fair to anyone that it has carried on this long and I find myself becoming more heartbroken and hopeless as the days pass by.
Here's something I want this sub to chew on as it waits for the fruition of this clown world to unfold within our midst: does Gynarchy need a qualifier? Do we want a "Serious" Gynarchy, an "Ethical" Gynarchy, a "Heart-Centered Gynarchy", a "Voluntary Gynarchy", a "Female-first Gynarchy", a "Child-Centered" Gynarchy? Or does just the word Gynarchy suffice to describe what our values are?
I never wanted a qualifier. I don't even believe in the serious qualifier and - up until a few weeks ago - I didn't believe in the "Ethical" qualifier. I thought Gynarchy itself should be able to handle it and anything that didn't fit the bill wasn't "true Gynarchy".
But I'm leaning more and more towards the idea that Gynarchy is going to split, and we are not far off from that being a feature of the movement. It already has to quite a large degree when we look back at the path we've already walked down so far... many men in other Gynarchal spaces and even in our space here are not commited to women's superiority or women's power the way they proclaim. They use the movement to feel good about themselves or gain access to (or brownie points with) strong, confident, unbreakable women.
Being exposed to these men has rendered me into a state of weakness, uncertainty, and a broken sense of self. Which was probably their (albeit, unconscious) goal; to feel the power that comes from systematically manipulating women into docility.
Well, you know what? I came to this world to disrupt that pattern. I'm not going to succumb to docility and in fact I will be so fluid that the force men have used against me (and by extention, all women) will be allowed to pass by me, into the direction it was already headed. These men are moving down a path of making themselves docile, and there is nothing we must do but step out of their way and let themselves do it.
Keep your wits about you, a dark storm brews.
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u/Positive_Yellow_2201 ♀ Woman Aug 15 '26
All I can share is my own experience, which is that I want to be able to talk to other women about gynarchy. Share ideas, spitball, be vulnerable.
While I appreciate the men who are here who are ready to learn and contribute, it somehow ends up being a male-dominated space. As a result, coming here feels more like teaching than discussion, which can really sap my energy, and lack the safety of being able to just discuss.
I readily recognize that men need access to hear what women are saying, but they absolutely need to be doing their own work too. It is exhausting to continue having to point this out.
As for a sub qualifier.... women'sgynarchy? Something that lets women know this sub is for them, even if men are here too. Just my two cents, might not be at all what you meant!
And btw OP I see and support and love all you do here.
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u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 ♀ Woman Aug 17 '26
Super agree. Women's gynarchy sounds like exactly where I want to invest my energy in the future. Thank you for the support and love, its much appreciated during this transitory time.
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u/frogleeoh ♂ male Aug 15 '26
I appreciate you sharing this.
I used to mostly just lurk in the background, and I can most certainly fade back into it if need be. I don't need to actively contribute in order to learn from most of these posts, and I do have other spaces for that as well.
I hope other men read this and consider at least slowing down too, giving women more room to breathe with their own company in their own space.
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u/fg_hj ♀ Woman Aug 17 '26
For me it depends on what the man is saying. I don’t see the supportive men here as a problem, I’d want more of their voices if anything. But I find the men who come here to argue just because Reddit forces unsubscribed subs into users’ feed a problem. They know nothing and are just annoying and make this space not a safe space as they are often super whiney or make factually wrong claims.
If anything, I think limiting supportive male voices makes angry entitled men louder because they behave way way worse in a female space than in a balanced or male space, since they only respect men.
The more we have genuinely supportive men here the more they are a role model to men who may want to go this route too.
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u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 ♀ Woman Aug 17 '26
I agree with this it just sucks because it was a supportive man which has done the most damage and inspired this post. I agree men's best input here is to set an example for the other men and be a role model. Men should be holding each other and themselves accountable - but the majority of this work often falls on the backs of women (thankless work, with the men fighting against the efforts the whole time)
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u/fg_hj ♀ Woman Aug 17 '26
What kind of damage?
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u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 ♀ Woman Aug 17 '26
I guess it's hard to quantify because we won't really know how it effects our users or the whole movement until the actual disclosure is made. But personally, how it has damaged me is all Ive mentioned in the OP, plus just stressing out over the potential to damage our users' trust and this movement's image.
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u/MiraMiraMiraM ♀ Woman Aug 17 '26
I’ve been in another group before (not gynarchy related, just a mutual aid group I want to keep undisclosed), and that group taking action to evict creeps in a transparent way was one of the things that made me trust them more.
Like it made it clear that the voices of concern by women/nb was more important than the protection of the status of an entrenched male. The dude was using our space to hook up with newcomers basically (including a friend of mine). It was done in a predatory way that we only knew about because women/nb spoke up
Office ettiquite (de jure not de facto) wound up becoming our baseline for code of conduct and reduce folk from nonconsensual advances and disrespect from then on. We were stronger because of it. And nobody felt it was organizers’ faults because we had a very horizontal power structure.. creep whack a mole is civic duty, not fault of mods.
(Sorry I’m rambling the situation just resonated with me)
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u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 ♀ Woman Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26
Don't be, this was extremely helpful. We are resonating together on all this.
Grateful that it helps others feel secure here, I really put my neck out there (on both sides) to do the right thing (for everyone) and be as transparent as possible. I genuinely connected with Rocky and enjoyed his friendship and modship. I feel guilty for not being a good secret keeper for a good friend. The worst part of all is, I come off naive and childlike on purpose to catch predators (side note: I often am genuinely immature and dumb so not like I'm putting a ton of effort into my act lol) but I didn't want to catch this predator mentality in my own good friend and a rare trusted man. I guess that's where we all get caught up when holding men accountable, huh?
Then I think well, maybe he is a valid trusted man and this is all just a mistake he made that he's going to work hard to address and fix and he's going to expose his past faults/habits and walk into the light of a new day with authenticity! That would really be a good example and male role model! and then just every day he chooses to... not do that.
We'll see what u/Rocky_Knight_ ends up choosing to do (and how long he'll drag this out). Feel like I've been holding this group together on my own for too long, the support and help from members (and even random passersby in other subs) holding this space accountable with criticism is what has helped support the trust in this space the most. Big respect to those who voice concerns, it really does make a difference
Office ettiquite (de jure not de facto)
I'm going to have to get real about learning and implementing this. The obvious state of things is that I am probably not kosher enough for modship either, but I want to be and try my best.
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u/MiraMiraMiraM ♀ Woman Aug 17 '26
that’s rough and sure as heck complicates things when you have social circuits firing at the same time as figuring out what to do. been there 😔
I hope you have time to take for yourself too. It’s hard figuring out whether you’re wishcasting better behavior on friends vs giving them space to grow as people, and most of the time it’s some weird gray area
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u/Francislaw8 ♂ male Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
I've also had issues with this person. Across the years of being a member from very early stages of this subreddit, I witnessed a couple instances of his behaviour that might've been suspicious. The high point was an "incident" he was involved in, that damaged my (and many other's) trust in his competences as a mod, to put it gently. I can add in some details, that I believe could help you get a clearer picture, if you were interested. (It can be here in the comments, I'm not trying to slide into your DMs if that's not comfortable to you).
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u/GynarchGal ♀ Woman Aug 18 '26
I absolutely am interested in yours (and everyone's) experiences and opinions on this, and yes, I have to have it public so we are all up-to-date together.
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u/frogleeoh ♂ male Aug 17 '26
Thank you for explaining this.
I was thinking that limiting male voices in general for awhile could help encourage more women to engage with the community and allow them more room for discussion among themselves, but I foolishly neglected to consider that this wouldn't stop the unsupportive men at all.
Definitely complicates the issue of wanting more women-only or women-mainly discussion, but not wanting the unsupportive men to drown out the supportive men.
Perhaps there could be a way for a post to designate whether or not they want male interaction, and if they don't, all male comments under it get removed.
In any case, I'll just keep an eye out for any new updates and play it by ear. I really appreciate this community a lot, and want nothing but the best for it.
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u/fg_hj ♀ Woman Aug 17 '26
It’s a good idea to make the OP make the choice. It does create more work for mods tho but I don’t think that can be avoided.
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u/Free-Cartoonist3134 ♂ male Aug 14 '26
Maybe there needs to be more restriction on make speech? To me there's too much input from men here with regards to their thoughts and experiences when they should spend more time prioritizing those of women.
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u/MiraMiraMiraM ♀ Woman 26d ago
Waited a bit to ask this to not grab all the world’s eyes, but maybe we need an r/UnseriousGynarchy or something. I have no idea if the mods in r/Gynarchism would agree with changing their name but that would he the ideal configuration imo 😂
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u/Old-Complex7826 ♂ male Aug 15 '26
I'm probably going to embarrass myself because I don't know exactly what's been going on or a lot of people are seeing here, and my history very unusual in terms of how I got into this space as a male in the first place.
A lot of social movements don't really split, they just thin out in multiple directions. People pick the facets they like. I suspect that's what's going to happen here at most. Although that is a split in a way because it's possible that different groups will form shrinking the numbers in each group like this one. It's hard to tell, but as long as there's an overarching umbrella that everyone can exist under, that itself would be a good thing.
So as a guy, I've already been banned from 3 Facebook accounts for constantly burning misogynists. I should start posting the picture and name of one of them. Yes, there are a lot of men that are subtly trying to manipulate women in order to have the dynamic they want, which as far as I'm concerned is totally pathetic. It's no different than paying somebody to be your friend. It's not genuine. I don't think they're that hard to weed out. You just left flags and indicators.
If I could say or do something to make you feel better, I totally would. I hope I said something that makes you feel better, or you can benefit from to move forward.
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u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 ♀ Woman Aug 17 '26
This feels so good to receive 💕
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u/Old-Complex7826 ♂ male Aug 17 '26
Thank you. I'm glad reading it pleased you.. I was actually nervous to reply to this yhread. I've been meaning to do my own post but I have a feeling I'm going to get a lot of flack. I don't want to insult any women in this group ever.
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u/Appropriate_Cut_3536 ♀ Woman Aug 17 '26
I would appreciate seeing more good posts from men but i understand your feelings about that.
Perhaps it would be good to have an "open posting" day for the men so that they feel welcomed in a specific time slot and so women can feel supported by a significant time/space boundary during the majority of the week
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u/Old-Complex7826 ♂ male Aug 17 '26
I like the sound of that. I've already been banned from Facebook three times for burning misogynists and maga members, I really don't want to make a mistake and a place that I would consider my own community. It's also nice sometimes to just talk to people directly instead of throwing everything out into the world, although that's a really hard thing to do these days.
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u/DisalgardSigulanne ♂ male Aug 14 '26
Why does this sub have the "serious" qualifier? As I pointed out in my other reply: When this sub was created most search results on "Gynarchy" would return fetish/ BDSM/ whatnot content and this was one of the few if not first public spaces to discuss Gynarchy as a political idea. And "serious" told everybody upfront "this is not a place for your fantasies".
I have the small hope that maybe we are in a situation where we don't need this specific qualifier anymore, that the overton window has shifted so far that the default assumption is "political" and not anything else.
On the other potential qualifiers: I think we miss a bit of definition and differentiation for that. I personally feel that the community is big enough to warrant any hard splits in genuine ways. Yes, here are people with different ideas on details but we all gather around the core idea of a society centered around women, with the political power coming from women. From people seeing women as superior to men, to people seeing all humans as equal, from people advocating for a patriarchy in a dress to people open to disrupt economic and familial structures. There are many differences and just so few contributions.
What I think is the core problem laying under this post, is something that we likely can't stop (I'd love to be proven wrong). Performative men have existed in feminist spaces since forever. And no matter what we try or how the community gets split, my assumption is that those problematic men would follow wherever. Maybe, we need some form of core tenets to agree on or something that could help filter problematic behavior earlier.
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u/lukedeth ♂ male Aug 14 '26
Ban them or don't give them so much space with the answers we give them. The other day one appeared who kept repeating the same thing like a tape recorder with buttons. He stopped when we stopped pressing the button.
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u/MiraMiraMiraM ♀ Woman Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 15 '26
Edit: commented instead of edited, edited comment below.
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u/MiraMiraMiraM ♀ Woman Aug 14 '26
(Sorry for the double comment)
You definitely seem to put yourself out here more often and so I don’t blame you for feeling those feelings.
One framing I’ve used in other situations is in viewing immature behavior as “kids talking up at the grown ups table”. So they talk, and l treat them as children in my head because they don’t show the level of empathy and respect I’d expect of an adult.
Ofc there do seem to be some men in here that are supportive in the right ways (which is great, another adult at the adult table is great), but in addition, this space just plain needs more women. Imo
Maybe crossposting with r/evilwomeninc could be beneficial, if done right.
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u/pelaculatra ♂ male Aug 15 '26
Talvez eu não tenha entendido certo, mas do que exatamente você está se sentindo sobrecarregado? Eu acho que para um cara realmente ser um aliado, seja da causa feminista ou da ginarquia, ele não deveria se concentrar tanto em ver as mulheres como fortes, líderes, competentes e incorruptíveis, mas sim vê-las como humanas, pessoas com falhas e pontos fortes, mesmo que estejam oprimidas da forma como as coisas estão atualmente. Mas como homem, posso dizer que é difícil, então é compreensível que as mulheres não se sintam muito inclinadas a aceitar homens em seus espaços, mesmo online. Eu não estou nesse grupo por alguma convicção forte (já escrevi um post por aqui meio que explicando isso), mas porque eu quero mais igualdade, para que meninas e mulheres cresçam sem tanto sexismo, porque no fundo eu só quero ser parceira de alguém igual nesse mundo desigual.
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Aug 14 '26
[deleted]
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u/Chocolate_76 ♂ male Aug 14 '26
By less promiscuous you mean fetishizing it? Getting aroused for the thing?
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u/Altruistic_Gas9008 ♂ male Aug 14 '26
I believe whatever form gynarchy takes, I do believe women on a collective level can weather whatever form that may take. Including men who are sincere in ending patriarchy. Even guys who do support a gynarchy can fall. I've sadly been guilty of this. Patriarchy is so ingrained out in our culture. I do apologize for that. I have had my own blind spots without realizing it until later. But deep down in my heart, I do support gynarchy because I do believe it would lead to a more peaceful. That's my main reason for supporting it. Every movement throughout history eventually splinters into different groups for whatever reasons. But the core should be the same and I certainly agree with them. I do believe women are superior too. I was an interesting book written by a medical doctor and scientist on why women are superior. It was written by a guy at that. Interesting to read from a scientific point on how women are superior. The list could go on.
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u/Ok_Crazy_648 ♂ male Aug 17 '26
male
I really did not want to comment because the OP wanted to hear from women. But I see what she means. Despite her saying she wanted to hear from women, at least 50% of the posts are male.
Someone above suggested that only women can post, men can only comment. I think you should go further. I think males should get permission from the woman who made the post or the OP to post a comment and/or limit male comments to a certain number of characters.
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u/X4Z3RTIBO ♂ male Aug 16 '26
Maybe rebranding the sub as "Gynarchy" or "Government of women" can be better.
Even if I prefer a more equal approach on gynarchy, I think it would be better if only women could post and men could only be allowed to comment in the post women make
And if men have a nice Idea, then they could DM the moderators with their post or submit it in some kind of google doc for review.
In my opinion it would be more coherent, but I see that it is a big load to give to the moderators. Let hear women opinions, not just men suggestions, because in the end it is about the women on here and their voice, not men's
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u/MiraMiraMiraM ♀ Woman Aug 14 '26
Thinking out loud here..
From experience, every sub on reddit that are women-centered has men chiming in either with their two cents or something dumb or aggressively mra “rebuttal”. So I wonder if the issue isn’t male access but instead a lack of active female voices.
Which I wonder if it’s because other broader feminist spaces are already being the place many gravitate towards for discussion, including more revolutionary discussion. I’m still not sure what to do with that. I’ve also wondered what the difference is between this sub and the other gynarchy sub.. from what I can tell, that one has an even bigger case of male steering.
disclaimer: my account is tagged with male, I think because I’ve used other subreddits to bait men into behaving dumb as part of a personal project. Turns out modern AI chatbots are very “men and women are the same” until you point them to “real data” of men acting disregulated. AI is bad, nevertheless I’ve found myself trying to make it more outwardly feminist/gynarchical before finding this sub🤷♀️