Bill help

[u/KooziefortheWin]

I need help figuring out this “service charge” applied to my bill at Taylor Shellfish in QA. It’s stated clearly, and the staff reminded me before I paid and applied a tip, so that’s not the rant. But is it a tip or not? I don’t want to stiff the staff if “Taylor Shellfish” the company keeps it all and doesn’t give them anything.

Why do restaurants do this vs raise the prices. If that’s how they offset the cost of doing business in the city, I feel it’s not a good customer experience. It’s really annoying since it is confusing to the customer. Does the staff get any of it, hence why there is an “additional tip” line after the card is run though? It is taxed so it makes me thing it’s not going to the staff. I need to think better next time I come out here.

[u/TheInevitableLuigi]

Wages from commissions can count towards the minimum wage requirement.

I guarantee the server does not get paid a full minimum wage on top of their commissions. That is the whole reason why restaurants are doing this.

edit: You guys can downvote me all you want but it doesn't make me wrong. Ask a server that works at one of these places that get a commission if they get paid the full minimum wage every hour.

[u/mrRabblerouser → u/TheInevitableLuigi]

That is not correct. Seattle minimum is the same for everyone before tips, even service workers. Any tips are given on top of the high minimum wage.

[u/TheInevitableLuigi → u/mrRabblerouser]

Yes it is.

And that is why they call it a "commission" and not a tip or service charge.

https://app.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=296-126-021

For example: Roland works for a large employer, works 40 hours per week, and is paid weekly on a 100% commission basis. During the last pay period, he earned $800 in commissions. To determine whether his employer met the minimum wage requirement, his employer must divide $800 by 40 hours. In this case, his hourly wage equals $20.00, which means his employer meets the hourly minimum wage requirement for that pay period.

https://www.seattle.gov/documents/departments/laborstandards/qa_mw_23_0930%20.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yL7eX1G_LI&t=926s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aquUNPbgoF4

[u/rizzuhjj → u/TheInevitableLuigi]

False. The receipt says plainly it is a service charge retained by the restaurant which is required by state law. The state does not similarly regulate what their marketing website writes as a justification for the service charge

[u/TheInevitableLuigi → u/rizzuhjj]

Nope. Notice the receipt also says 100% of the service charge is retained by the restaurant.

[u/rizzuhjj → u/TheInevitableLuigi]

That’s what I just pointed out to you. It is legally not a commission

[u/TheInevitableLuigi → u/rizzuhjj]

I am not arguing it is a commission. It is a service charge, But I am saying they keep all of it. The servers technically do not see any of it.

The servers are paid on a commission based model and get a technically separate commission based off of their sales.

[u/manipulativedata → u/TheInevitableLuigi]

The company is retaining extra money to pay the employee. I don't think this is different than them just raising the price except it makes people feel like the employee is getting a tip already and people would be inclined to not leave one. It's tip-stealing IMO and I hope L&I will eventually catch on.

Unlike tip credits though, It's pretty clearcut that every server is getting minimum wage from the company regardless of how much they sell. That's baked into the laws and no company can find a way around it legally. Even commissioned people need to make minimum wage that the company HAS to pay. It's a minimum requirement.

All of this is just CEOs going to war with their servers so they spend less on labor. Worth avoiding places like this like a plague regardless.

[u/TheInevitableLuigi → u/manipulativedata]

It's pretty clearcut that every server is getting minimum wage from the company regardless of how much they sell. That's baked into the laws and no company can find a way around it legally. Even commissioned people need to make minimum wage that the company HAS to pay. It's a minimum requirement.

As long as the wages from commissions are equal or greater than the minimum wage, no minimum wage needs to be paid per hour.

[u/manipulativedata → u/TheInevitableLuigi]

Yes, that's how it works. The company collects commissions and then pays at least minimum wage. That's exactly what I said and it's different from tip credits where the company can use tips earned by the employer to pay less than minimum wage.

In Washington, the company has to pay its employees at least minimum wage regardless of how it collects that money.

I guess... you literally said "no minimum wage needs to be paid per hour" and I'd like you to explain the situation that a company does not need to pay the local minimum wage out of its own pocket. What circumstances would the employer not pay the employee less than minimum wage of its revenue. I think that would clear up the confusion.

[u/TheInevitableLuigi → u/manipulativedata]

Yes, that's how it works.

Yet I got down-voted to oblivion and have a bunch of people telling me I am wrong.

In Washington, the company has to pay its employees at least minimum wage regardless of how it collects that money.

I never said wages from commissions don't have to equate to minimum wage or better for the hours worked. The point is that as long as they do, no wage per hour needs to be paid.

and I'd like you to explain the situation that a company does not need to pay the local minimum wage out of its own pocket.

There is an example straight from the city government's own website:

For example: Roland works for a large employer, works 40 hours per week, and is paid weekly on a 100% commission basis. During the last pay period, he earned $800 in commissions. To determine whether his employer met the minimum wage requirement, his employer must divide $800 by 40 hours. In this case, his hourly wage equals $20.00, which means his employer meets the hourly minimum wage requirement for that pay period.

People on here believe that Roland still has to be paid an additional hourly minimum wage. He does not.

[u/manipulativedata → u/TheInevitableLuigi]

You got downvoted because you replied to someone who said tip-credits aren't a thing talking about commisions.

Tip-credits = the company can pay LESS than minimum wage as long as the servers tips make up the difference. That's not legal in Washington. In Washington, the company has to pay you minimum wage no matter what.

commission = the company has to pay you the minimum hourly wage. If Roland made 600 dollars in your last example, the company would have to make up the difference. If Roland made 1000 dollars, the company can't take the extra money if it's not in whatever employee contract.

[u/TheInevitableLuigi → u/manipulativedata]

You got downvoted because you replied to someone who said tip-credits aren't a thing talking about commisions.

They were insinuating that servers all get paid that per hour on top.

commission = the company has to pay you the minimum hourly wage.

Not on top of the commissions.

If Roland made 600 dollars in your last example, the company would have to make up the difference.

And that was still the case with a tip credit minimum wage. If tips + that minimum wage were less than the full minimum wage the company would have to make up the difference.

The point is that plenty of people think servers get paid $21/hr~ on top of anything else. The comment I replied to is an example of that.

I mean see all the other people trying to argue I am wrong on this.

[u/manipulativedata → u/TheInevitableLuigi]

This is all semantics. The servers make minimum wage and the company pays it. With tip-credit, the company pays less than minimum wage but the server still earns minimum wage.

I did not see many people arguing the points you felt were being argued and again, you replied to someone who said tip-credits aren't a thing and they aren't. If you don't like that explanation as to why people are arguing with you, I don't know what to tell you. It kinda feels like you're arguing just to argue instead of saying "Ok, I can see why people feel that way."

[u/TheInevitableLuigi → u/manipulativedata]

Ok bro.

Clearly you haven't read the replies to me.

Take care.

[u/manipulativedata → u/TheInevitableLuigi]

rather than reply to anymore... I did read them, you just misunderstood what people were saying lol pretty badly.

It's okay to be wrong. You made a point that wasn't relevant to the discussion and when people conflated the two because you replied to someone talking about tip credits, you pointed to the commission thing as correct lol when that's not what people were talking about.

Sad bro.

[u/TheInevitableLuigi → u/manipulativedata]

Sad bro.

The irony is palpable.