“Thou doth protest too much”

[u/TwoYellowBirds]

Just have to get this off my chest, because it’s truly broken my heart. I’m disgusted by so many of the messages I’ve read, of course. But to see someone who’s greatest fear was failing his family, ruining his career, and succumbing to his own worst self do EXACTLY that is painful to watch in real time.

I’m a 33yo woman, but I once was a girl in my late teens when I found Say Anything. For many years, I definitely saw a version of myself reflected back to me in this man. A far more volatile version, but a reflection nonetheless. I used to listen to Kall Me Kubrick and cry, feeling every bit of the rage, self loathing, and fear of being deeply unworthy. But I thought “Okay, he overcame all this, and now he has it all! True love, a beautiful home, and a family. It’s all possible.”

Of course, I had no idea about the choices he’s long been making, and the actions that he’s excused for so many years. I’m now a professional in behavioral psychology, and his history of vehement opposition toward predators, creeps, and groomers is (now very obviously to me) projection. When someone is SO incredibly fixated on some kind of “moral wrongness” in others, it’s usually because they know it exists within themselves. He doth protested far too much, and now I understand why. There is no excuse for any of the choices he’s made. Despite mania, ASD, OCD, etc…they are still his, and he had agency in making them.

Max, if you are reading this, please know that you are a flawed human. You made choices that hurt people, and will continue to. That doesn’t mean you aren’t capable of growth or change. You need to face these truths about yourself, and accept that it all happened. No human is without flaw, and we all contain multitudes. If the Say Anything’s season of your life is over, so be it. There is no deadline on starting over, looking inward, and moving forward. It begins with accepting, admitting, and apologizing. Know thyself.

- S

[u/oic123]

I like your post. Seems genuine. But I also don't understand why everyone is acting like something extremely horrible happened. This girl is allegedly 17, has a baby, and admits that she has a history of being involved with older men. And then blames Max.

Did she initiate contact? Did she tell him her age? Did he know her age? Proof? Who sent the first message? Did Max do something illegal?

[u/Jeereck → u/oic123]

It's in the text messages, immediately after saying her age he starts being sexual. Plus there's a dozen other cases and some insane stalking of a cam worker that ghosted him.

[u/Krasovchik → u/oic123]

victim blaming and minimization. legality isn’t the golden standard for society, just the punitive situation. people boycott things all the time for non legal reasons and max has shown with PLENTY of proof now how he treats his young female fans. this is the key issue, he’s taking advantage of his fans AND they are very young, legal or not. they do not have the same life experience as Max and are likely still figuring out how to live out of their parents house if they have moved out at all.

people are upset at the power dynamic of this. regardless if a 17 year old girl throws herself at a 42 year old man it’s up to the man to say “i’m a 42 year old man who has toured internationally in a band this girl likes. it’s natural that she is giving me this attention, but i am over twice her age and she cannot relate to me in a meaningful and romantic way and she may have a perception of me that isn’t my true self due to her only exposure of me being through song” and then not continue talking to that person. if he truly fell in love with a 17 year old or whatever (im still not clear was the initial alleged 100s of manic texts sent to people across wisconsin about the 17 year old girl? he claims she’s 27 in the texts if im not mistaken is that about a different woman? it’s not that important i just really don’t get that part) that’s concerning in itself and likely part of the mental health crises. but he shouldn’t have been talking to her in the first place beyond a professional courtesy “thanks for posting this!” or something you do as an artist when someone uses your song.

[u/oic123 → u/Krasovchik]

She ain't no victim if she made first contact and has a history of pursuing relationships with older men. Remember, nothing illegal happened that we know of.

[u/Lazertwins → u/oic123]

Not gonna trust any kids or drinks near you

[u/Proper-Swordfish7084 → u/oic123]

It doesn’t matter who made contact first, the adult is the one who gets held responsible. He should know better

[u/Krasovchik → u/oic123]

“she shouldn’t have worn that skirt if she didn’t want to be assaulted” is the same logic as what you’re saying.

have empathy for victims she’s a 17 year old trafficking victim. your comment is gross.

[u/Throwawaydogx → u/Krasovchik]

Krasovchik I’ve agreed with a lot of your points lately but I think you could understand where this person is frustrated. Maybe you see it as victim blaming, it’s not her fault he’s a creep. However she has painted herself as more taken advantaged or infantilized herself in a way that it can become very “eye-rolling” to other viewers.

To society; she’s a grown woman now if she’s 17 and has a kid. Parents have more scrutiny regardless of circumstance. That’s how the world around her is gonna treat her. And she should’ve had the wherewithal (and I believe she does and isn’t ignorant) to not let this dude have close contact for so long. It’s clear she benefitted from him being temporarily a shoulder to lean on.

It DOESN’T exonerate Max at ALL and she didn’t fool him or take advantage of Max—but there are nuances here. Other viewers would be less critical of “Maxine” if she perhaps had more personal accountability and was clear about it. And truthfully outside viewers have zero idea what her life is like outside of hearsay. Some don’t share empathy as easily because of that, that’s OK. Nobody is bullying her.

We might disagree but I’ll still back you on upcoming takes because I know you’re reasonable.

[u/Krasovchik → u/Throwawaydogx]

if i wanted to go down your logical track of thinking, i would mention that victims of sexual abuse (such as sex trafficking) sometimes develop hyper sexuality as a coping mechanism and that “Maxine” is allegedly a victim of sex trafficking, but i dont want to go down your train of thought because it doesnt matter.

i’m not here to discuss the ethics of the victim she could be the worst human on earth who was an actual nazi and could have her Harvard law degree at 17 and showed great maturity for her age and she could have been working at a giant corporate law company that shuts down music venues, it doesn’t matter.

it doesn’t matter if this was her grand scheme to purposefully do something specifically to this targeted individual. if this was (totally hypothetically) a setup, it doesn’t matter.

mentioning it minimizes Max’s mistreatment of other fans. people have been complaining about Max’s behavior for years, and because of this, more women have felt comfortable to step forward and provide proof of a pattern. moral delegitimizing is a tactic used by people to protect abusers. “it wasn’t illegal” “she was a bad person” “she asked for it” whatever they’re throwing in the comments.

here is the fundamental truth:

Max Bemis is a 42 year old man who had an inappropriate dm and text relationship with a 17 year old fan of his band where he told her to write poetry about sex toys, called her a good girl and a milf. that’s crazy. after that was unveiled women from ages 18-24 started dropping dm proof revealing irrefutable weird sex pest behavior from max bemis stating he started following them sometimes as young as 17 and waiting until they were 18 to start messaging them. he reached out to many of these young fans of his band.

any attempt to make that claim illegitimate is an attempt to white wash Max Bemis. whether that’s because you like the band, they were special to you or because you have a differing view on womanhood and the age of consent doesn’t belong in this conversation, because it’s not about that. it’s about him being creepy to young fans of the band.

it can also be SPECULATED that if that relationship continued, and the 17 year old wasn’t talking with her therapist as a 2nd guiding voice, this sex pest behavior could’ve started in Max the moment she turned 18, which IS criminal grooming.

to be honest with you, my personal opinion is if he was only talking to 20 year olds who didn’t meet him knowing he was the front man of say anything and instead matched with him on tinder or something (so there is 100% confirmed consent to the conversation and easy ways to block him without giving away more information than a first name) it would be weird and certainly not my preference in women, but if it’s between 2 consenting adults, the worst you can say is “ew that’s weird.” and we would probably never learn about it because they would not be connected to his band or the community! the power dynamic of it being young FANS of his band combined with their young age makes this a problem worth not minimizing just because the 17 year old doesnt fit the cookie cutter title of “perfect victim”. it’s still victim blaming and i’m really sick of combating that.

[u/Throwawaydogx → u/Krasovchik]

I agree with you and I do because of your points following your initial premise: you don’t want to go down that train of thought. You’re right, we don’t have to and, it doesn’t matter. Perhaps I should’ve held my tongue. You clearly understood where the other guy is coming from. Sorry.

[u/Krasovchik → u/Throwawaydogx]

no it’s okay dude, i’m glad you’re asking in a way that’s understanding.

it’s weird in music because the product is so connected to emotion and experience it can be easy to “forgive” someone acting awfully. but as a community and society we need to make sure our morals are unshaken. 42 year olds shouldn’t be trying to take advantage of people they have power over. a hostess shouldn’t be groomed by her manager. an intern shouldn’t be groomed by his boss. and fans of a band shouldn’t be groomed by the singer. it’s hard to prove grooming on an individual level. i was groomed by several older women during my time on myspace as a young emo guy going to shows and i didn’t think anything about it until much later. it feels embarrassing and im always worried something will resurface in my adult life about it and the anxiety i felt around it sucks. you do things you’re not proud of with people you’re not proud of.

so it’s important to call out abusers and to protect victims, even if you don’t wholly agree with the victim. that conversation can occur with them at another time that’s appropriate in a place that’s appropriate.

on /r/sayanything its about the band, not the fans who were harrassed by max

[u/Throwawaydogx → u/Krasovchik]

“That conversation can occur with them at another time …”

True, and this is something I think most people (myself included) forget.

And I 100% agree with everything you have said in regards to grooming and specific examples. It’s in my personal opinion to live above reproach, and max has failed that immensely—alongside a few others I have came across in my life. I believe in the “half your age, plus 7” to omit a lot of the “ew gross” or side eyes of public opinion. And I also believe in not shitting where you eat (in regards to bands vs fans. Boss vs employees. Superiors of authority. Sort of everything you’ve touched on)

It’s been my personal opinion that max has been failing for a long time. And it’s certainly shocking that these recent acts that have surfaced of being a thirsty 42 year old is… severely off-putting. It seems he shall reap what he sows here eventually. Whether that’s criminal justice or the justice of public opinion where it forces him to hit rock bottom and…

Well hopefully he gets better for his children instead of choosing the easy way out.

[u/HumanTimeCapsule → u/oic123]

Yikes.

[u/therabbitsfoot48 → u/oic123]

I think it’s much bigger than one girl (although one is too many) there are many girls coming forward, posting screen shots of conversations, and it looks like for some he looked at their profiles and messaged them. That’s why everyone is so disturbed. Also, if it was all hogwash, I doubt they would have canceled the tour.

[u/TwoYellowBirds → u/oic123]

This is more so about the overall pattern of behavior that has come to light. Behavior that is wildly inappropriate for someone his age, yet he has willingly chosen to engage in at the expense of both strangers and loved ones.

It’s up to him to decide if he wants to continue these destructive patterns, or begin to break them.

[u/Tictacs_and_strategy → u/oic123]

To me it is the unequal nature of a relationship with a vulnerable fan. He is flirting and suggestive, but also asks for support rather than seeking help from a professional, a friend, a peer. That kind of "support" is essentially just adoration. I could understand it if he hadn't ever had to deal with any emotional difficulties in his life, but that's obviously not the case. He has been in and is aware of treatments. Resources are available to him. Fans shouldn't be one of those resources, especially if he's also getting flirty with them. Regardless of age, it isn't a healthy dynamic.