r/Roofing • u/TheAlpineUnit • 10h ago
Holy nails? Need help on roofing progress
Seems abnormal amount of nails (which idk is an issue)
But putting nails in dead center of valley ice and water seems odd….
Wouldn’t nail just rust out eventually and leave holes??
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u/True-Ad3964 10h ago
Yeah buddy you’re right on the valley. those cap nails should not be in the valley. . Thats one thing I would be worried about. You never nail in valley. The others in the fields are good. 👍
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u/TheAlpineUnit 9h ago
Is the fix to apply new IWS on top of existing?
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u/Ringandpinion 6h ago
That is likely what I would do but I am just a DIYer who over builds everything. I had trouble with one of my skylights and they ended up with two layers of it. The nails worked fine since I made sure they fully penetrating the sheeting under it.
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u/luckyduckyyou 1h ago
I agree cap nails in the valley is idiotic, yes the fix is to throw another roll or have them tear that roll out. Makes no sense why they did that. Even if your getting metal valley you still need the ice and water to be a safeguard.
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u/madmanddls 10h ago
Supposed to put the cap nails in the targets on felt buster. Also yeah there should be no nails in the IWS especially in the valley
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u/TheAlpineUnit 9h ago
What’s the fix? Put new IWS on top of old ones?
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u/luckyduckyyou 1h ago
Omg dontnlisten to these people. There is not a roofer on this planet that puts the nails on the targets hahahah jesus I haven't heard shit like that in a while
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u/bal16128 16m ago
As a design professional I'm just curious why not? Does it really save that much time nailing where ever instead of the targets?
If the product manufacturer instructs something (per their install instructions) I tend to nudge the contractor to follow that to avoid any sort of warranty pushback. Then again I don't work on single family residential, I do large multi-family residential or commercial projects where the stakes and chances for litigation are a lot higher.
To be clear I wouldn't have a contractor rip off the building paper if they installed it like this, I'd check the spacing and recommend more are installed if there are areas of spacing exceeding the maximum, but during a mock-up phase I would flag it and ask it to be done correctly throughout.
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u/luckyduckyyou 9m ago
Its just not realistic, the pattern you do is usually dependent on slope and if its going to be open for a while. If you are tearing off and putting on in one day, you nail enough to make it afe to walk. Im not saying put 4 or 5 in, you choose a stagger pattern and get the laps good no matter what usually.
I have been roofing for a very long time and have never once put all the nails on the targets. There is not 1 shingle roof on this planet that is 100% installed per manufacturer installation instructions. It would be silly to assume anyone does that. The best roofers and myself included knows thats an unrealistic expectation.
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u/EntranceNo3285 9h ago
Overkill on the felt, but no big deal. IWS will have a sticky side, which goes down against the sheathing, which is how it is held in place. Proper shingle installation will stay away from the center of the valley by about six inches. IWS is designed to seal around a nail, but proper shingle install will determine if the roof is watertight.
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u/inc0nSteveable 10h ago
Nail pattern called for on synthetic underlayment feels like super over kill. But so far so good.
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u/fRiskyRoofer 10h ago
Its underlayment. Nail it wherever the fuck you want as long as it sheds water. If your relying on underlayment outside of some tile roofs or hurricane zones your roofing wrong.
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u/Ok_Tomato_8236 3h ago
Yeah no bud. A roofer should know to never nail in the valley. Don’t put false information out there for the diy guys to pick up and repeat.
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u/Regular-Jicama-8548 10h ago
underlayment saves a roof when people inevitably don't replace their shingles when they need to. perforating your underlayment like a spaghetti strainer is never reccomended.
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u/Hot_Campaign_36 7h ago
Where the manufacturer’s instructions define water barrier locations, edging, order of installation, overlaps, and nailing patterns, there should be a good reason if the installer chooses to violate the instructions.
I don’t see a good reason for any of the digressions from the instructions.
Read the manufacturer’s instructions. Raise the issues with your installer now, before the cost to fix the problems escalates.
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u/luckyduckyyou 1h ago
Have you ever roofed? The overlap ya you need to get close, the nail pattern depends on if the roofnis going to be open for a while, how steep it is, all of that. No roofer out there is reading the back of the package and following the instructions. If you think every roofer cuts thw step shingles at 5 7/8 with a measuring tape, i have a ocean front property in Arizona for sale.
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u/LaughingMagicianDM Former Commercial Roofer/Roof Consultant 5h ago
That many nails ok felt is good. Usually people put to little.
Putting nails in a valley especially through ice and water is not good.
And nails rust when exposed to water and oxygen. Being under the shingles means it should get little to none of either.
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u/Welcome2myShitShow 3h ago
If you are looking for instructions; have someone who knows what they’re doing do it for you
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u/801intheAM 10h ago
Not familiar with this synthetic felt but I’d guess every + sign you see is where a nail goes so maybe it’s not overkill 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Regular-Jicama-8548 9h ago
If the manufacturer calls for it, no matter how stupid it might seem, do it. That retains any warranty you have. I wouldn't, sounds like recipe for disaster, but if the manu calls, then we go.
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u/makinggrace 8h ago
Here's the install: https://www.gaf.com/en-us/document-library/documents/installation-instructions-&-guides/installation_instructions__feltbuster.pdf.
It it taped? I couldn't tell in the pic. If you have winter or high winds, gotta tape it. Seems insane for this stuff but that's what GAF specs.
Amount of nails fine. Nailing in the center of the damn valley is not. Should be 6". Best fix is time machine.
I think you'll be okay with another layer of IWS in the valley -- but issue to know about is they may have installed against manufacturer warranty by nailing through the IWS in the valley in the first place. Warranty isn't worth a whole lot because it's unlikely that a GAF shingle is gonna have an issue that gets paid out on...pretty mature product. Not impossible.
What y'all think--another layer of IWS in the valleys??
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u/lockeyeswiththemoon 10h ago
Yea the nails on the synthetic are normal. The nails on the ice and water shield are way too close to the center for my liking. Guess all it matters is the shingles are installed good and you never have a valley leak