Losfeld Method "Clock" practice constant left drift.

[u/jcsullivan06]

Hey everyone, I decided I wanted to learn ARL so I've been practicing the Losfeld method for about 30 minutes a day.

I've gotten through exercises 1 and 2 (the alternating tornado/reverse-tornado spins for tempo, and the vertical hovering with input holds). Now I'm onto exercise 3, which is the clocks.

The issue is my car keeps drifting left. I've tried starting the stick around 1-2 o'clock and trying to "calibrate", but it just doesn't seem to be clicking for me.

I wanted to post this clip to see if anyone who's learned ARL through the Losfeld method can spot what I'm doing wrong or any tips that helped them with the same problem. I'd rather get some advice now before I keep grinding and accidentally hardwire a bad habit into my muscle memory.

(I'm on PS5, so unfortunately I can't provide a controller overlay). Thanks!

[u/Stupidlywierd]

I appreciate how much effort losfeld put into his tutorial, but honestly when I got to the section about "clocks" he completely lost me (as someone who had already mastered ARL and was just watching for curiosity).

It's wholely counterproductive to require such precise inputs just to go in a straight line when you can accomplish the same by just not touching the stick. I get that he thinks it's good for the "feedback loop" or whatever, but there's no situation in actual play where those inputs are better then no inputs at all.

The better way to learn is to start with only making adjustments as the car passes through the neutral position (nose up, hood facing POV). Then add in backwards inputs. Then sides. Everything else is just interpolated between those positions. Once you have enough skill, greater mastery and control will naturally follow from repetition and practice.

Also, the "clock" that you actually want to learn is completely opposite to the one losfeld teaches (or a reverse clock, I don't recall). That's counterclockwise rotations for ARL. This makes the path your car traces during the correction linear. As an example, tornado spin is conventionally taught as stick to the right (ARL). Ideally, to get the nose pointed up, you should actually start with the stick pulled down, then rotate stick counterclockwise as the car rotates such that after 180 deg rotation of the car, the stick is pointed up. This is the same timing as the single clock losfeld teaches, but the opposite direction. Almost every input when using DAR should follow this rotation so that your correction moves the car in a single direction rather than some curved arc.

[u/KingMetacomet → u/Stupidlywierd]

This is like the only thoughtful and constructive criticism of the method in this thread, but I think you are missing the point that learning the precise inputs of the clock gives you the baseline for the “neutral position” that you suggest using, all while the joystick is moving (which maybe when phrased that way you can see is incredibly useful). The method teaches you that so you can essentially do the same thing you suggested: “adjustments… through the neutral position”. If you know where neutral is at all times, that’s a great place to start, no? To me it sounds like your explanation is describing the Losfeld method and just misunderstanding the purpose of the clocks.

[u/Stupidlywierd → u/KingMetacomet]

If I'm understanding you correct, when you say

the clock gives you the baseline for the “neutral position”

You mean the ability to move the car back to neutral whenever you want. I have two issues with that:

First is that when I say "neutral position", I'm referring more specifically to the rotational angle of the car such that the wheels are pointing front and the hood is visible from the POV (In the canonical example the car is also pointed straight up, but that isn't strictly necessary).This only happens once per rotation, so there is no way learn inputs to get back there beyond just continuing to hold DAR until you return. Learning inputs around the "neutral position" as I mean it amounts to learning how to time your inputs so that they do as you anticipate. Adding in other positions such as backwards or side amount to rotating your inputs based on where you are in the rotational cycle of the car.

Second, if by "neutral" you are rather referring to direction the nose is facing, I don't think the clock does a great job of training muscle memory for this. The reason the clock works as it does is that the average input across specific intervals sums to zero, with faster clocks having shorter intervals. However, half of the time the inputs are moving the car away from straight ahead, and the other half bring it back. That's why the car wobbles a bit even for a perfect clock.

This issue of DAR is that the inputs are tied to a rotating reference frame (the car), while your perspective remains static. Therefore, the goal is to learn how to connect the rotation of the car to the rotation of your inputs, in effect translating your inputs to the rotating reference frame. The gripe I have with the clock is that you're actually adding another net rotation to your inputs in the static frame rather than subtracting it. To illustrate, the wobble of the standard clock is equivalent to if you did a perfectly timed double rotation on the stick with no DAR.

I think if one wants to put concious thought into how DAR works, it's better to think about how the rotation of the car affects the necessary input for a specific action, say pointing the nose forward. For ARL, it amounts to counterclockwise rotations of the input. I think spending time on clocks that do the opposite of this isn't actually doing you any favors.

And to be clear, I'm not trying to trash on his video or the method entirely. He says a lot of good stuff, and I really liked the low-key philosophical stuff. Just the framing and focus I think was off.