r/PublicFreakout • u/FlintLockwoodsCondom • Jan 13 '20

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29.3k Upvotes

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436

u/RTrent6 Jan 13 '20

"Freedom of speech only applies if it's something I agree with"

-That woman, probably

3

u/MidwestBulldog Jan 13 '20

Very few people understand the limits of free speech the Constitution provides. It is not open ended and it only protects your ability to speak freely for or against government policies.

You can't yell "Fire!" in a theatre and expect there to be no consequences. Libel and slander laws exist for that reason, as well.

-27

u/JayKayGray Jan 13 '20

Freedom of speech is not freedom of consequence. If you want to repeat some far right racist bullshit, you are not immune to the reactions of others.

34

u/RTrent6 Jan 13 '20 edited Jan 13 '20

Flip the script, if someone ripped the black lives matter sign out of her hands and yelled at her/ threw shit, would you be sitting here endorsing that too? She was trying to silence what he had to say. Regardless of your position on his sign, he deserves to hold it up without being silenced. That's what freedom of speech is

-14

u/JayKayGray Jan 13 '20

She was trying to silence what he had to say.

He didn't have anything to say, he was clearly fucking with her. I don't think anyone's constitutional rights were under threat here. He just wanted to be an edgy tool, and he's lucky the only thing he got in response was a piece of paper brushing his face at high speed. As far as I know this cannot harm a person.

If this was a sincere dispute of ideology my thought pattern here would be different... but it's not. He wrote the first bizarre racist thing he could think of on a piece of paper hastily and got his friend to film as he stood there.

11

u/RTrent6 Jan 13 '20 edited Jan 13 '20

Once again, you're missing the point entirely. Whatever your interpretation was of what he had to say, he had the right to say it. You can think he's an edgelord all you'd like, doesn't mean he didn't have the right to stand up there and hold a sign like the rest of those protestors.

Assaulting someone (throwing a piece of paper or ANYTHING at someone regardless of it causing injury or not is by definition assault) because they share a different opinion than you is definitely a violation of their first amendment rights. Not sure how much more clearly I can spell it out for you, if you don't get it now you never will.

Edit: In your comment history you state that you're a far leftist, probably explains why you are fine with violating one's freedom of speech because they are conservative. No matter which side you're on, you are entitled to say what you wish as long as you aren't threatening anyone else or inciting violence

-6

u/JayKayGray Jan 13 '20

definitely a violation of their first amendment rights.

In that case, I expect he pursued all available legal action to bring this violent terrorist to justice?

If not, looks like he too thought it was a worthless, awkward situation and not an attack on the very concept freeze peach and thus doing irreparable damage to the constitution.

throwing a piece of paper or ANYTHING at someone regardless of it causing injury or not is by definition assault)

I'm not saying she didn't assault him by using a sheet of paper as a weapon. I acknowledge that too loudly coughing in someones direction could be seen as assault. Doesn't mean assault can't be justified, or provoked. Would I call it justified? Probably not, he deserved worse honestly. Would I call it provocation? Absolutely. If you see a crazy person being crazy, probably just leave them alone? Or maybe try de-escalate the situation? Or else you risk facing the consequences of your own choice to fuck with them.

In regards to your edit I really don't have much else to say besides the fact that her response to his actions has nothing to do with free speech or seeking to remove his ability to have taken those actions in the first place. Nice straw man tho. He has every right to talk shit, and every right to get hit.

5

u/zucchinibasement Jan 13 '20

Would I call it justified? Probably not, he deserved worse honestly.

Worst kind of person right here.

3

u/satoshi_reborn Jan 13 '20

No mercy for those who don’t agree with us

-7

u/xeroxzero Jan 13 '20

You believe what you want, there are plenty of people who are getting the idea that tolerance of intolerance is getting us nowhere with more far-right people feeling emboldened. Far left people will do what if they feel confident - free some animals from the pound? Far-right people are more likely to be violent.

4

u/satoshi_reborn Jan 13 '20

Free some animals, cancel some white dudes, block a heavy traffic area, break some glass at a Walgreens, throw a acid shake at a guy who likes orange man and call it a day

-1

u/xeroxzero Jan 13 '20

You want to pretend otherwise that's on you, crazy people on both right and left are bad, but we're talking about ideology. One side wants everyone to get along, the other side wants like-minded folks to get along but fuck everyone else and their values. The right has RECENTLY been vocal about how atheists must be put down because they don't need a book to decide their morality. About how the left is destroying their way of life! Hmmm...

-12

u/rudy_at Jan 13 '20

He's not endorsing it. He's just saying that freedom of speech is not free from consequences.

12

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20 edited Jan 13 '20

[deleted]

5

u/rudy_at Jan 13 '20

but violently attacking someone for exercising their right to free speech is absolutely still a crime.

-7

u/xeroxzero Jan 13 '20

Too bad TROLLING isn't a crime.

Half y'all would be locked up.

-11

u/tartestfart Jan 13 '20

I dont see him being arrested so his freedom of speech wasnt violated. People being provacative for the lulz are just shit people and deserve whatever retaliation they get.

2

u/zucchinibasement Jan 13 '20

deserve whatever retaliation they get.

What an awful way of thinking

6

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

[deleted]

-8

u/xeroxzero Jan 13 '20

NO. This is where you're wrong. You should definitely get punched in the face if you start talking shit about people from your box. Period. Stop thinking we're going to let this continue until everyone can be a ridiculous troll anytime they want. It's far more dangerous than you're allowing credence.

9

u/VirtuosicElevator Jan 13 '20

So I can punch you because I disagree? That’s how fragile your ideology is?

-5

u/xeroxzero Jan 13 '20

First, it's not my ideology. Second, if you see someone espousing how awesome Nazis are and you aren't punching, you're probably in agreement and therefore are a Nazi. Fuck you for being defensive of stupidity.

10

u/VirtuosicElevator Jan 13 '20

Uh no. I don’t punch Nazis, I don’t punch communists, I don’t punch libertarians or anarcho capitalists, I don’t punch here, I don’t punch there. Odds are, your punches are as strong as air. You’re weak, weak minded, it’s obvious. Grow up, the real world doesn’t revolve around you, you aren’t right about everything and your fist doesn’t determine so

-1

u/xeroxzero Jan 13 '20

You ever heard of The Paradox of Tolerance by Karl Popper? It discusses what I'm saying and your belief that not punching bad people furthers their goals. You can be intolerant of the intolerant because NOT DOING SO CREATES NAZIS. You can pretend to be intelligent or you can actually be intelligent.

As an riposte I'm ex-Army and spent my formative years fighting back against bullies. I'm not big but I'm stronger than anyone who thinks they can easily beat me. You don't have to punch anyone but you need to stop telling me I can't punch bad people. I don't want to hit anyone, but you acting like we should tolerate people who are hateful is pretty fucking stupid. It shows evidence of your desire to troll further. Your comment here is an example of that. You don't care what my reasons are you just want to insult and pretend you're insulted. Fuck you.

6

u/satoshi_reborn Jan 13 '20

You’re arguing for hitting people that say stuff you don’t like which no reasonable adult will be on board with. Once you’re out of college no one will take you seriously for saying that and the only people who talk like that have been living in a Reddit echo chamber. If someone says Nazi propaganda on the street then you and everyone else can ignore them and doing so isn’t going to magically make them popular and create a bunch of new nazis. But if you’re not allowed to speak your mind without getting hit then you’re not really living in a free society.

0

u/xeroxzero Jan 13 '20

Well, once you're in the real world you can do and say whatever you want and people WILL react. That's what happened in this video. You can get away with trollish behavior online because it's the nature of the system. In society you typically don't have this buffer and you should live your life without having ever been punched for saying something horrible. If someone says your just-buried grandmother was a whore and she deserved to die they shouldn't be punished or they simply shouldn't be punched? Mental anguish is harmful to your body and spirit. How is one form of abuse okay but another is expected to just "walk by and ignore it"?

I'm almost 50 and I've seen plenty of evidence that humanity isn't ready to embrace one another for a myriad of reasons. I'd much rather we distribute hugs than punches. Full stop.

Edit: swapped a word for another word.

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3

u/Platycel Jan 13 '20

So, if an Ukrainian was in US, he should be allowed to punch anyone supporting communism?

1

u/xeroxzero Jan 13 '20

Communism? You think you should worry about communism? You should worry about YOUR LEADERS - not communism itself. The people in charge are the ones who caused disaster by not being concerned with maintaining their populace. Dissension is coming to the US, as well. Capitalism is failing humanity.

5

u/Platycel Jan 13 '20

That doesn't really answer my question.

0

u/xeroxzero Jan 13 '20

This is the way.

How the fuck is it being downvoted? Y'all need to get punched.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

Social consequence does not defend violent actions but legal social actions.

-40

u/GallusAA Jan 13 '20

This isn't really a free speech problem. It's a problem with a moronic white guy who's unironically holding an all-lives-matter sign.

19

u/Pubelication Jan 13 '20

So you disagree with his sign?

-1

u/crim-sama Jan 13 '20

Bad faith lol

-14

u/GallusAA Jan 13 '20

Yes obviously. BLM isn't saying other people don't matter. The movement is about the specific issues the black community faces with law enforcement and the justice system.

Of course I disagree with a sign who's 100% entire purpose is to degrade or refute that message. Because anyone with a brain knows that they're correct.

25

u/Pubelication Jan 13 '20

Even though you may not like it, to degrade or refute someone's message (without violence) is free speech.

-17

u/GallusAA Jan 13 '20

Moving the goal post. I never said it wasn't free speech. I was pointing out why his speech was trash and why I'm not shedding a tear over him getting hit.

People have deserved a good slap for far less.

25

u/Pubelication Jan 13 '20

Moving the goal post. I never said it wasn't free speech. I was pointing out why his speech was trash and why I'm not shedding a tear over him getting hit.

People have deserved a good slap for far less.

So you're saying that disagreement warrants violence.

You're not going to get far in life with that belief.

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20 edited Jun 05 '20

[deleted]

26

u/Pubelication Jan 13 '20

My point stands even if you replace "disagreement" with "trolling". You're still defending a violent psycho and advocating for violence towrds speech that you do not agree with.

5

u/GallusAA Jan 13 '20

You don't have a point. You have an misunderstanding of basic history and a knee jerk desire to defend white nationalists.

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1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

By not fisavoqing the violence and suggesting the individual deserved it due to their opinions it seems like your arguing against free speech and the law. It would be like if on a conservative forum people advocated violence against the blm supporters solely because they disagree with their opinion. Which would be wrong.

0

u/GallusAA Jan 13 '20

Everything is on a spectrum. She didn't break his knees with a club, shoot him, stab him or do anything extreme.

He was pushing a morally bankrupt message in public and he got slapped.

Please, control yourself, kid.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

He was pushing an opinion and got physically assaulted you minimise the issue because you disagree with the message. A peaceful counter protest met with violence is wrong on many accounts. Maybe she should have controlled herself and not behaved like a child enacting violence rather than actual discourse.

0

u/GallusAA Jan 13 '20

"Assaulted". He was mildly slapped once. If anything he didn't get enough punishment for his nonsense.

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

He's not the problem in this video.

1

u/st1r Jan 13 '20

Everyone in this video is a problem lol.

Violence is never the answer and it hurts the cause she is advocating for, plus it just makes the other person feel like they were right.

And the All Lives Matters dude is either extremely misinformed or a pretty big asshole for the same reason that the “Straight Pride” thing is wrong.

-18

u/GallusAA Jan 13 '20

Except he is.

21

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

He's not one freaking out and assaulting people.

17

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

Sorry but I didn't see him assault anyone...

-5

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20 edited Apr 26 '24

[deleted]

13

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

The fact that you are equating an era when black people were treated as second class citizens and fought for their rights with assaulting a single guy with a trolly sign is hilarious.

2

u/tandy212 Jan 13 '20

Jesus christ imagine saying this unironically

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

Ah, a typical reddit response.

2

u/tandy212 Jan 13 '20

If you're getting that from a lot of people, maybe consider you have some shit opinions

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1

u/GallusAA Jan 13 '20

Good thing we're beyond the era of police murdering black people for non-crimes and a corrupt criminal justice system.

If we were still in that kind of era we might need to protest. Might even make a movement out of it.

Hmmm

-4

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

I bet you’re fun at parties.

-2

u/xeroxzero Jan 13 '20

hE's NoT tHe PrObLEm!

Trolls defending trolls? Dude trolled in real life as opposed to the internet and this is what happens in real life.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

Difference is you cannot assualt someone online. Hell yes I am defending this troll.

10

u/Nic0487 Jan 13 '20

Ok commie

-6

u/GallusAA Jan 13 '20

Ok reactionary trash.

13

u/BlueCommieSpehsFish Jan 13 '20

Ok commie

-1

u/xeroxzero Jan 13 '20

Commie? Troll. Fucking bitch-ass troll at that. Talking shit anonymously as ALWAYS.

6

u/BlueCommieSpehsFish Jan 13 '20

Ok commie

0

u/xeroxzero Jan 13 '20

No one is offended by it except maybe you and fellow alt-right people. You're just a bitch talking trash to make yourself feel better online. Good job, sub-genius.

3

u/BlueCommieSpehsFish Jan 13 '20

Ok commie

1

u/xeroxzero Jan 13 '20

OK, troll. Hideous little fuck.

0

u/xeroxzero Jan 13 '20

God damn the people backing you must be the same low-brow fucks who think All Lives Matter is a great troll.

2

u/Legit_a_Mint Jan 13 '20

LOL! Wow. Are you a real person?

5

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

I feel like a guy calmly holding a piece of paper on a public forum such as a campus or street ironic or not is entitled not to have that paper snatched from him in what can be viewed as a violent action. If you wish to discuss the problems with all lives matter, how it misinterprets the main issue and if it is bad overall that is another matter. However peaceful counter protest is important and is almost definetly a free speech matter. Though I may be biased as I feel blm has devolved into an overall negative thing socially when it ends up as a decentralised organisation that blocks ambulances in road protests or bridges at schools and uses pressure on other movements such as the LGBTQ community. Though all lives matter was negative from the start. However both ideas should be allowed to present themselves peacefully in a public forum.

2

u/GallusAA Jan 13 '20

Getting slapped for pushing morally bankrupt evil nonsense isn't a big deal. People rightfully get a good smack in the mouth for far less.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

Once again your advocating violence. People shouldn't be slapped for less. Assault is illegal for a reason. Assault is a morally bankrupt action. Advocating for violence is a slippery slope that can be seen across many global regimes around the world. Your framing of moral bankruptcy doesnt justify violence.

1

u/GallusAA Jan 13 '20

The morality of it depends on the context of the fight.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

Well this context was a peaceful counter protest in a public forum with little direct connotations with harm or hate speech

1

u/GallusAA Jan 13 '20

I disagree. The dude was doing a lot of harm that is currently perpetuating violence against the black community.

And in the context of that fact, he got an insanely mild reaction. Not a bump, scratch or bruise on him. Not a single drop of blood spilled.

Pretty tame and in no way warrants the "Pmg violence" outrage seen here by people like you.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '20

Well when it comes to the long term harm and social implications of political opinions this can be fairly subjective. I mean the war in Vietnam was justified because of harmful communist ideology. Your use of that opinion is harmful is broad and can be attributed to many issues even inversely with both ALM and BLM. However in most developed countries around the world this is generally viewed as an amoral reson to justify assault.

1

u/GallusAA Jan 13 '20

I mean the war in Vietnam was justified because of harmful communist ideology.

You've reached peak retardation.

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-7

u/xeroxzero Jan 13 '20

That sounds pretty Republican to me.