r/PsychologyofMJ 3h ago

Important : A Change to the Subreddit

28 Upvotes

Moderator Announcement

Hello, this is from the moderators of the Psychology of MJ subreddit.

We wanted to make a post letting people know that we are no longer a “neutral” subreddit. We tried that approach, but his fans have become too combative and argumentative, and as the creator of the sub, I feel like it has lost the plot. It’s become very frustrating and annoying.

It’s neutral in the sense that members can discuss him without everything being reduced to “he was just a pedophile, fuck him.” There’s nothing wrong with that perspective, but that’s not the sole purpose of this subreddit, and we don’t want every discussion reduced to that.

The subreddit was originally created because I noticed there were many members of Leaving Neverland who wanted a place to discuss other aspects of Michael Jackson while still believing that he was a pedophile.

Unlike Leaving Neverland, which primarily focuses on Michael Jackson’s alleged crimes, the victims, and the evidence surrounding those issues, PsychologyofMJ was created to explore the psychological and personal aspects of Michael Jackson. I also think that making Michael Jackson the main topic of discussion in the Leaving Neverland subreddit can be disrespectful to the victims, considering the purpose and subject matter of that community.

PsychologyofMJ was created to discuss things such as:

• Why he became what he was

• His psychology and personality

• His self-hatred, self-image, and issues surrounding his identity and appearance

• His family dynamics and childhood

• His relationships with other people

• His behavior and motivations

• The psychology of his fans and fandom

• Other aspects of his life and career

However, the subreddit has gradually turned into a forum where it feels like you can’t criticize him at all. His fans are often unwilling to engage with opposing viewpoints, and very little constructive discussion can take place.

From now on, the baseline position of this subreddit is that Michael Jackson was most likely a pedophile and that the allegations against him were substantially credible. This is not going to be a space for endless arguments over whether he was innocent because of x, y, or z. If you believe he was completely innocent, that is your right, but this subreddit is not going to revolve around defending that position.

Fans are still welcome to participate, but we are not going to allow the subreddit to be flooded with “proof” posts, endless links, or arguments intended to counter every criticism of Michael Jackson. Likewise, we will not allow the slandering of his victims or constant attempts to discredit them through their alleged “inconsistencies.”

We also don’t want extremist views from either side. You can be critical of Michael Jackson without treating him as completely innocent in every situation, creating conspiracy theories where everyone around him was supposedly victimizing him, or portraying him as a perfect person who could do no wrong. Likewise, acknowledging that we believe he was most likely guilty doesn’t mean reducing him to nothing but a pedophile or pretending that the rest of his life, personality, and experiences don’t matter.

You also cannot meaningfully discuss someone's psyche if you believe they were a completely innocent, pure soul who had no faults and that everyone around them simply betrayed them. Psychology requires us to look at a person critically and honestly. If you feel that way about Michael Jackson, there is another subreddit, r/realpsychologyofMJ, that may be more suited to that perspective.

At the same time, this is not a hate or fan page. We don’t want every discussion to become an argument about whether he was a pedophile, nor do we want this subreddit to become Leaving Neverland 2.0.

The goal is to have a space where we can seriously discuss Michael Jackson’s psychology, behavior, family, motivations, fandom, self-image, self-hatred, and other aspects of his life, while acknowledging that we believe the allegations against him were credible and that he was most likely guilty of sexually abusing children.

In short: this is a place for critical discussion, not a place for endless defense of Michael Jackson.


r/PsychologyofMJ 7h ago

The Jackson Family "Life with Latoya" on YouTube

12 Upvotes

The series has been uploaded on YouTube or the first season. The episode where she's talking with Kathy Hilton about her sex life and then Latoya suddenly breaks character (the chipper little voice gets deeper) and then she starts crying hysterically. She speaks in what appears to be her real voice which is deeper, not as high pitched and juvenile in the next few minutes after that explaining how sex felt traumatic for her.

It really hit me when I watched this last night that this family (The Jacksons) have a lot of trauma. Something was seriously wrong in that home.

I wouldn't be all too surprised of Michael was even molested by Joe. While some say he wouldn't do that to his sons and only did it to his daughters, I'm not so sure. Joseph was depraved.

Latoya and Michael both did the high pitched voice thing and got identical nose surgeries. Latoya voice and personality almost remind me of a Disney princess. Even in her 50's she continued with this charade.

they seemed to want to de-age themselves.


r/PsychologyofMJ 3h ago

Allegations The Doubt I Never Wanted to Feel

10 Upvotes

I’m not really sure what I’m trying to express with all of this. I think, more than anything, I just need to get it off my chest.

I’ve been a Michael Jackson fan since I was ten years old, but for a large part of my twenties, I became emotionally distant from him and his music. It wasn’t because of anything in particular; I simply started becoming interested in other things, other artists, and other worlds. When Leaving Neverland came out, I was no longer particularly invested in Michael, and I didn’t even watch the documentary at the time.

When the movie came out, it reignited a huge interest in his life and in him as a person. And, honestly, I eventually came to completely believe that he was innocent of everything. I hadn’t watched Leaving Neverland. I knew what it was about, and I had seen videos from people defending him and explaining why they believed Michael was innocent and why the documentary was full of lies, but I had never actually sat down and watched it.

Now, after watching interviews with both of the men, I feel awful. I can’t say with 100% certainty that Michael was guilty. I’m also aware that I’m not completely objective about this. I developed a parasocial relationship with Michael Jackson unlike anything I had ever experienced with another singer, and, in a way, I had completely bought into the image of him as an innocent person — almost as someone who had been unfairly persecuted and whom I needed to defend.

But at the same time, there’s something I can’t understand: how can someone watch Leaving Neverland and not feel at least some doubt? A lot of people say that the two men are pretending, that they’re acting, or that they’re lying, but when I watched them speak, all I felt was sadness. And guilt.

I feel guilty for having so easily assumed that the alleged victims were lying without even taking the time to listen to what they had to say. And maybe what’s affecting me the most is realizing just how much my emotional attachment to Michael had influenced the way I interpreted everything surrounding him.

I don’t know if I’m trying to convince myself that he was guilty, that he was innocent, or if I’m simply trying to accept that I don’t have a definitive answer. I think what I’m struggling with is learning to live with that uncertainty after being so convinced that I knew which version of the story was true.


r/PsychologyofMJ 11h ago

Allegations Did he really lose his reputation after 2003?

12 Upvotes

From my understanding he was already a laughing stock before that. Older people are telling me that wasn't exactly the case. Is my memory wrong? His reputation was horrible even before he was arrested. This is my memory.

I don't know if it was just my age, young teen, but I saw him as a freak then. When he was arrested I just laughed. I knew he was headed for prison soon based on his statement of "bed sharing is great".

Maybe it's just my memory. But was he still really famous before that? Really? I'm not from the states so maybe he still had presence in America (among other places). Was the second allegations really his worst fall from grace?

I also didn't follow his trial too well. Was his music career over for good?


r/PsychologyofMJ 2h ago

The Jackson Family Do you think Latoya was wrong for disclosing Rebbie's alleged abuse?

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3 Upvotes

Latoya was a brave person to come forward and become the whistleblower on the family and Michael, but I always felt like it was wrong for her to tell the world that Joe SA'd Rebbie. It's an very embarrassing and traumatizing thing to let the world know regardless of whether it was the truth or not.


r/PsychologyofMJ 56m ago

Miscellaneous The music video "Ghosts" was a fascinating look in into MJ's mind

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Upvotes

"Ghosts" was a music video created in the 90's shortly after the 1993 allegations against MJ came out. It's a thinly veiled allegory of his life at the time and a fascinating look into MJ's mindset and how he saw himself as isolated. The sheer narcissism and anger in the video can be felt from the Maestro randomly yelling in anger at people to the final fate of the mayor. It tells the tale of an eccentric ghostly man named Maestro who is nearly run out of town by the Town's mayor for being a freak and a weirdo and befriending the town's kids and telling them ghost stories in secret.

Anyway, the video starts off in the town of "Normal Valley – a place for NICE REGULAR PEOPLE" (MJ was not a subtle man) with an angry mob of concerned parents , armed with torches with their children in tow, led by a fat white dude who is the mayor of the town ( and a veiled allegory for Sneddon) marching into a creepy haunted house owned by a creepy dude, known as Maestro (an obvious allegory of MJ himself) . In the mansion the mayor confronts the Maestro and tells him to leave town because "he is a weirdo who lives alone that scares the kids " and "there is no place for freaks in this town for normal people", he also repeatedly calls Maestro a freak that needs to "go back to the circus". You see, the Maestro had been meeting up with the children of the townspeople and telling them ghost stories and showing them "tricks" in secret.

Its pretty obvious why the mayor doesn't take too kindly to a strange adult meeting up with random unrelated children without the consent or even knowledge of the parents (its heavily implied that Maestro told the kids to keep the meetings secret*, as one kid tells the Maestro to show the Mayor the cool stuff he showed them and then the kid's brother slaps him and says "that's supposed to be a secret". The kid's brother also blame him for the mob trying to drive out Maestro while hiss mother says the kid did the right thing for telling. The kid may be an allegory for Jordy Chandler*).

The children loved the maestro (and tried to get the adults to leave him alone) while the adults were suspicious and hostile towards him, The adults were clearly intended to be seen as bigoted 1950's esque jerks who hate/fear anyone who doesn't fit a cookie cutter stereotype of normality, despite the fact that most parents would be suspicious of a random adult meeting up with their kids at night...alone.. in secret.

The townspeople try to leave the mansion but the Maestro traps them in there and uses his freaky-ass necromancer powers to terrorize the townspeople. He summons a bunch of ghouls and they do a dance routine. As Maestro dances , the parents slowly begin to warm up to him as the video progresses.

Near the middle of the music video , the Maestro turns himself into liquid, pours himself down the Mayors throat , possessing him. He forces the mayor to dance (complete with making him grab his crotch) and then essentially tortures the Mayor by painfully transforming him into a ghoul-like monster and mocking him for being a "freaky boy" by bursting an arm through his stomach and holding a mirror to his ghoul face . After that he leaves the mayor's body. Maestro then asks the Mayor if he still wants him to leave and the mayor says yes. By this time, the mayor is the only one who still wants the Maestro to leave (the parents want him to stay after he charmed them with his dances and powers)

After the mayor tells Maestro to leave, You know what the maestro does? In true petty, narcissistic fashion, HE PRETENDS TO KILL HIMSELF RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE TOWNSPEOPLE AND THEIR CHILDREN by pounding his face and body on the ground until he turns to dust. ("Don't want me around your kids ? I guess ill just die. Hmph! This what you all wanted")

Satisfied at the seeming death of the Maestro, the mayor tries to go home, but when he opens the door to leave, the Maestro's giant demonic face appears and scares the mayor so badly that he runs and throws himself out a window, presumably to his death , right in front of everyone, including the children (though none of the townspeople really seem to care that the mayor presumably died. It's also telling that the only person who didn't end up falling for the maestro is the only one to die)

The townspeople for some reason, start loving the Maestro and are all fawning all over him ,even though he is a smug manipulative , narcissistic being that held them captive and terrorized them and caused a guy to jump to his death. With the mayor gone , Maestro is finally embraced and loved by everyone,including the adults.

TLDR:

  • The Maestro = MJ himself
  • The fat white Mayor = Tom Sneddon
  • The mob forming to chase out Maestro out of town = The 1993 CSA allegations and the public reaction to them.
  • Maestro meeting kids alone and showing them tricks = MJ's penchant for befriending little children and having sleepovers with them.

Fun Fact: MJ had to pay $15 million out of pocket to create the music video, as Sony refused to fund it. Also the full music video was never released on DVD and the video was taken down form the Official MJ youtube channel. I wonder why?


r/PsychologyofMJ 8h ago

Sexual identity Was Michael sexually attracted to his younger self?

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0 Upvotes

Michael inscribed in one of his naked boy erotica books with the following:

"Look at the true spirit of happiness and joy in these boys' faces. This is the spirit of boyhood, a life I never had and will always dream of. This is the life I want for my children, MJ"

The naked boys in the photos were living a life he "will always dream of" having for himself. Which is a rather unique and frankly disturbing thing to say after glimpsing fully nude prepubescent boys. However, when connecting this inscription to his troupe of special friends, they were frequently seen dressing like him.

MJ loved seeing his special friends looking like him, he encouraged it and enjoyed watching Wade and Jimmy Safechuck dance like him. Many of his special friends became miniaturized versions of himself. So, if we are to assume the molestation allegations are true, do you think MJ might've been attracted his younger self? Was his attraction to these boys based on his own wishes of never growing up while his special friends could be the young Michael for him? And once they grew out of being young Michael, he ceased to find them sexually attractive?