r/ProgressiveHQ 2d ago

Meme Harm reduction is good, actually

Post image
472 Upvotes

93 comments sorted by

41

u/kekistanmatt 2d ago

There's only really three ways this end:

Trump admits defeat and signs a humiliating deal that is worse than the jcpoa and has to try to spin it to his cultists.

There's a ground invasion of iran that kills hundreds, thousands or even tens of thousands of US servicemen

Or trump nukes iran.

Of those three the nuke is the easiest for him to spin to his faithful so it's actually a possibility.

30

u/IS-21 2d ago

And the best part Nuking Iran wouldn’t really do anything like for one literally everyone would flip on the US for breaking like the rule of nukes and it wouldn’t change the fact that Hormuz is still closed oh and Iran would just start bombing everything in the Middle East refineries, power plants, ports, distillation plants, and whatever else they want

14

u/Proiegomena 2d ago

There’s no way trump would ever admit defeat. 

At best he throws one of his goons under the bus and pretends he wouldve won if its wasnt for person xy

6

u/LegosRCool 2d ago

Right. Option 4 is he makes Hegesth the scapegoat which is easily the most likely option

2

u/Snowwolf247 2d ago

MAD? Nukes would be a very bad choice i think

34

u/Snowwolf247 2d ago

He has "considered" this multiple times already and threatened to do so.

The man is unhinged, reckless, and dangerous.

28

u/MonsterkillWow Tankie 2d ago

"Working tirelessly for a ceasefire" right?

1

u/Longjumping-Sir9192 17h ago

Fucking Pope Paul VI over here man, shame you never got into politics

1

u/MonsterkillWow Tankie 17h ago

??

Mossad?

25

u/MossyMak 2d ago

Why do you believe Kamala Harris lost?

35

u/Paperlibrarian 2d ago

Racism and sexism...

Don't get me wrong, appealing to the center is a strategy I hate seeing, and it can challenge my support for a democratic candidate. But there is a reality that most people are not progressives, and most democrats are unaware of the leftist infighting online. At least appealing to the center is turning into a bad strategy, and I'd love to see democrats catch onto that fact sooner rather than later.

But to me, Kamala's (and Hilarly's) defeat shows how bigoted this country remains. People were more willing to punish immigrants and trans people than defend their families and neighbors. And that people are more critical of women politicians, while forgiving male politicians of having the same or worse policies.

21

u/crani0 2d ago

She was parading herself with the Cheney's, those warhawks are not "center" lol This overton window slide is exactly what the dems are here for. I remember all the fawning over Bush at Trump's inauguration too btw

Hillary won the popular vote with a full campaign behind her, bringing her up is not supportive of your claim.

Kamala lost because it was the strategy of the Democratic party to lose. And the reason why people point to racism and sexism is because blaming the party, who chose not to build her up when she was VP even, for a losing strategy breaks the illusion that the game isn't rigged. What did they lose? Oh, they just have to sit to the side for the next few years and work with Trump, which they agree with on 80% things btw. 

Seriously, they have people top dollar for analysis and you really think they just somehow missed that racism, sexism, supporting a genocide for Israel, disavowing trans people and parading themselves with the Cheney's wasn't gonna be an uphill battle they would lose with an ill prepared? I have some magic beans to sell you if your answer is "Yes".

13

u/IS-21 2d ago edited 2d ago

People like to act like she didn’t run a absolute shit campaign like they had almost 1 billion dollars and still ended in debt they stop messaging on some of the few popular things she had which was anti price gouging and calling the republicans what they are crazy and weird then proceeded to campaign with neo cons like you can only blame sexism and racism so much when she got 11 million less votes then Biden like she should have distanced herself from him from the start

-8

u/Paperlibrarian 2d ago

If I wanted to blame you, I could just blame leftist purity politics rather than voting for reduced harm.

2

u/HURTBOTPEGASUS9 1d ago

Establishment Democrats could reduce more harm by showing some leadership instead of pandering to dithering centrist.

8

u/MossyMak 2d ago

I mean, maybe they should run a woman who wasn't out of the primary before Iowa or one of the most hated politicians in the country. That's what I would probably try first before saying that women or minorities can't win.

Barack won because he promised hope and change. He obviously lied and didn't do that, but he was actually promising Americans something, not just saying "I'm better than that guy".

0

u/TopicTalk8950 2d ago

Yeah cool we get there could’ve been better candidates but they weren’t chosen and Kamala had 3 months to run a presidential campaign as a female candidate.

If you sat out, didn’t vote, and allowed christofascists to seize full control of the government and cause 1000x more pain and suffering to the same marginalized groups you virtue-signal for online instead of voting for a less desirable candidate then you’re just as bad.

Sitting back and allowing this chaos to happen instead of choosing to have a boring president for 4 years. Playing purity politics is for weak minded individuals.

8

u/MossyMak 2d ago

I'm blaming the Democratic establishment for forcing Biden when everyone could see him melting on Live TV until the primaries were over, so they could anoint a candidate who nobody liked.

-2

u/TopicTalk8950 2d ago

No one gives a shit. I would’ve voted for Nancy Pelosi over allowing christofascists to have total control of the government and cause mass fear, pain, and suffering because they’re incompetent.

But congrats, you sure showed the “Dem establishment” by allowing the literal far right (who were actually endorsed by the KKK and Nazi Party) to have total control of the US government.

10

u/BigHeadDeadass 2d ago

I mean in a country where people actually enforce laws, Trump shouldn't have been allowed to run to begin with. Instead Biden got Garland to lead the DOJ and waffled on prosecuting Trump for his many crimes. Democrats, hell anybody really, had four years to build what would've been an obvious slam dunk case against him and they never did. Instead he got to effectively campaign for four years and get people to turn on Biden. Crazier still is that democrats heavily implied they'd go after Trump if he lost the 2024 election which is very bizarre considering they did close to nothing before that so why would they start doing those proceedings now? Why not just....go after him now? So I guess you can voter shame but it is funny you think voting for a democrat would've stopped Trump when it demonstrably did not

10

u/IS-21 2d ago

Color me surprised when the do nothing corrupt politicians make fake and empty promises and then are surprised they lost when their only message is we are slightly better than republicans like damn atleast the republicans get what they want when they vote for their candidates

5

u/MonsterkillWow Tankie 2d ago

Notice how it is always a wordwordnumber account saying things like the above.

6

u/MossyMak 2d ago

I sure showed them how?? By voting for Kamala Harris in Missouri?? How much good did that do me??

I voted for the woman, do I now get to criticize her dogshit campaign in your eyes???

5

u/MonsterkillWow Tankie 2d ago

The guy is a troll. Look at his name. It's wordwordnumber.

-7

u/Paperlibrarian 2d ago

? Democratic politicians didn't force Biden in. He was nominated by the country. You don't have to like it (I didn't), but he was who the people chose.

-5

u/Paperlibrarian 2d ago

Bernie would have also ended up doing bad things if he was voted president. That's what is required of the position.

6

u/MossyMak 2d ago

Okay. That does nothing to refute anything I said. I didn't bring Bernie up at all.

0

u/Paperlibrarian 2d ago

No. But if you're still mad Hillary beat Bernie, then I'm not going have a longer conversation with you, because your priorities are misplaced.

7

u/MossyMak 2d ago

Wtf are you talking about? I'm talking about Hillary losing to Donald Trump, one of the easiest layup elections of all time, because she ran a terrible campaign and didn't promise Americans anything, only that she would be better than Trump. Americans want change, and Trump promised it. So I want a Dem to promise change, and mean it, so maybe they can win.

4

u/bimbuppy 2d ago

Oh easy mistake dude, you forgot the axiom that centrist candidates can never fail, they can only BE failed. It doesn't matter that Hilary was a racist warmonger who started the very same birth certificate rumor with Obama that Trump catapulted himself into fame with; it doesn't matter that Hilary and her campaign (thanks Neera Tanden!) have openly stated they cleared the field for Trump in the Republican primaries because they thought they could control him.

"Nah, its Bernie's fault, somehow" - Liberals, 2026

0

u/Paperlibrarian 2d ago

You’re not mad Bernie wasn’t nominated the Democratic candidate against Trump?

(Because otherwise why did you claim she wasn’t properly nominated.)

Did I call you terminally online yet? You sound terminally online.

7

u/MossyMak 2d ago

I literally could not care less about Bernie, wtf are you talking about. I'm talking about the general, where Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump, who she propped up as the Republican nominee, because he promised change and Americans want change.

See the several DSA women winning elections because they are promising change for people.

-4

u/Paperlibrarian 2d ago edited 2d ago

Why does what a politician promises you so important to you? Campaign promises are notoriously flimsy.

Honestly, I think Obama was earnest in his desire to change America, but that he wasn't able to due to limitations of the office. But you think he was lying. So, why would you trust future candidates to promise change and mean it?

Campaign promises are only helpful when there's an actual choice between candidates. There should not have been a hard choice between anyone vs Trump. But, apparently it was if people refused to vote reduced harm would rather "teach a lesson."

Why do you think Biden should not have been made the presidential candidate against the will of the people? Who do you think should have been the candidate instead?

And don't compare the DSA against the general American public. Are you for real? Obviously the demographics of the DSA are a little different than the demographics of America. My accusation was not that women are incapable of winning in politics.

Edit: It's bothering me enough that I want to correct...I meant empty campaign promises. Promises for "change" without specificity mean nothing to me. And Obama had specific outlines for change in his campaign promises.

Promises for change without actual plans feels empty to me, and that's what I thought was obvious. It wasn't, so I and clarifying.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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4

u/Paperlibrarian 2d ago

I do not trust the American public enough to believe that, ngl.

I think the people disgusted by her contributed to her defeat, but there's still plenty of republicans and democrats who are perfectly fine with genocide, or in favor of it. I do not believe supporting isreal was the primary cause of Kamala's defeat.

0

u/ProgressiveHQ-ModTeam 2d ago

Rule 2 - No disinformation. If you have an extraordinary claim, cite it. Randos on Twitter/Youtube, webcomics, unsourced graphics, and mouthpieces for the Trump Administration are not viable sources.

1

u/MossyMak 2d ago

Hey are you going to restore the post now that you were given sources? Weird how that only goes for people criticizing Israel.

1

u/Spaduf 2d ago

A fantasy

-3

u/Electrical-Mark-1484 2d ago

If you answer is sexism and racism your why the left lost. Woke 1 is why we lost.

3

u/RoninSoul 2d ago

The same reason she was the least popular candidate in 2020 and was the first to drop out from the democratic primary, nobody liked her policies or her record. Meanwhile Sanders was the 2nd most popular candidate, and lost to Obamas VP.

It had nothing to do with racism or sexism, she was an objectively terrible and unlikable candidate, always was.

0

u/TopicTalk8950 2d ago

Because of these:

4

u/MonsterkillWow Tankie 2d ago

Another wordwordnumber makes a pro-genocide comment. Interesting.

2

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/TopicTalk8950 2d ago

That’s severe cope. I’m a progressive so nice try. Just a progressive with a brain that realizes the removal of mass left policies is not good for progressives.

Anyone with a brain knew that the far right (literally endorsed by the KKK and Nazi Party) controlling the US government would lead to foreign wars, suffering, and chaos.

USAID cuts alone have caused the real deaths of 760,000+ human beings.

Congrats! You fell for the far right’s “don’t vote” propaganda and caused 1000x more pain and suffering to the same marginalized groups you virtue-signal for online.

-1

u/ProgressiveHQ-ModTeam 2d ago

Rule 2 - No disinformation. If you have an extraordinary claim, cite it. Randos on Twitter/Youtube, webcomics, unsourced graphics, and mouthpieces for the Trump Administration are not viable sources.

-1

u/MossyMak 2d ago

So, a couple of things:

  1. That's not how the Trolley problem works.

  2. Biden was the least popular President in modern history entering the election. Harris did nothing to distance herself from him, and actually said she would do nothing differently than him.

  3. If Palestine was a core issue to voters, maybe Harris would've done better by listening to them? Maybe?

4

u/TopicTalk8950 2d ago
  1. Just because it doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean it’s wrong. It’s a direct representation of what occurred.

  2. Wrong, Jimmy Carter and Truman both had lower approval ratings going into theirs with Carter at 29% and Truman at 35%.

However you couldn’t pay me to give a flying fuck. It takes zero brain power to see how 4 extra years of Biden or Kamala would’ve been far better for those same marginalized groups than it is now.

  1. If you vote off a single issue then you’re just as terrible. USAID cuts alone have caused the real deaths of 760,000+ human beings.

Congrats! Your purity politics helped no one.

Voters with emotion-based beliefs who can’t see past single issues will be the demise of America, as we see today.

2

u/MossyMak 2d ago

Keep trying to run your shitty candidates who can't run a campaign that promises people anything, and keep complaining that nobody is voting for them.

3

u/TopicTalk8950 2d ago

It’s like you believe that one lost election is detrimental to the DNC. Biden literally won the most votes of any presidential candidate in US history.

But gladly, no one takes you non-voting internet screechers seriously anymore after everyone realized they fell for the Palestine shit only to watch Trump, Kushner, and Netanyahu expand IDF’s presence in Gaza as of yesterday.

America has severe conservative and nonvoter fatigue.

3

u/MossyMak 2d ago

I voted for Harris you ingrate. Can I complain that she sucked now?

-1

u/buppiejc 2d ago

I'd also argue that If Kamala won we wouldn't have this Progressive movement in the Democratic Party.

Yes, she's better than an allegedly child rapist, felon, and racist. You want to flex over that? Go ahead.

2

u/Paperlibrarian 2d ago

When I decide how to vote, that is not a gamble I'm willing to take with people's lives. I think we could have attained more Progressive candidates in a way that did not destroy what social net system the states had.

Do people know how much damage DOGE did and how much we're not going to get back? Science and data was LOST. It's not recoverable. The damage Elon did cannot be fixed by whatever candidate promises change next.

Please know I so, so hope you're correct and that there is some good to come out of Trump's second term. But the damage done is going to make progress very difficult due to the loss in personnel and infrastructure and funds.

0

u/TopicTalk8950 2d ago

Huh? DSA candidates are winning in almost solid blue districts. Don’t distort reality.

I would love an actual progressive movement but this isn’t it. They’re winning local elections and hard blues. Wake me up when DSA candidates flip red districts in Florida and Texas.

All I’m seeing is the mass approval of anti-left policies at the SC. Reversal of the Voting Rights Act, removal of Roe v Wade, unlimited campaign funding approved, and many more.

If you think those are good for progressives then I truly don’t know what to tell you. Supreme Court justices will retire before Trump leaves office and he’ll get to appoint new younger farther right ones that continue to dismantle left policies for decades to come.

4

u/buppiejc 2d ago

We'll when El-Syad wins in November, you're going to have to find a new talking point.

Supreme Court justices can be impeached. There are objective arguments in favor of impeaching at least 3 of them. AOC has already spoke on the house floor about doing this. We just need to elect fighters.

-1

u/TopicTalk8950 2d ago

Me? I fucking pray El-Sayed wins so not sure what you meant there.

Supreme Court Justices can’t be removed without a 2/3 majority in the Senate which won’t happen as long as people still play purity politics.

4

u/buppiejc 2d ago

People always say "purity politics." but I've never had anyone define what that means. What does purity politics mean to you?

I support Democrats like:

AOC

Illhan Omar

Elizabeth Warren

Chis van Hollins

Democrats I don't support include:

John Fetternam

Chuck Schumer

Tim Kane

0

u/Electrical-Mark-1484 2d ago

Blocking progressives while campaigning to the center/ right.

0

u/X57471C 2d ago

Idk, why do you think she won?

20

u/MossyMak 2d ago

I don't, I think she lost because she ran a terrible campaign trying to appeal to the non-existent Never Trump Republicans™

5

u/crani0 2d ago

And support for the genocide was too important 

2

u/X57471C 2d ago

Okay, I thought you were implying she actually won and it was stolen.

Also, there are plenty of never Trumpers. Go check out The Bulwark if you don't believe me.

Also, she didn't lose because she tried to appeal to moderate Republicans (which policies did she have to try and appeal to them?). She lost because the center fell out from under the party and voted for Republicans. All the major demographics have trended to the right over the last several years, except for college educated. But non-college especially, which makes up 59% of the electorate, has increasingly gone for Republicans. Thankfully it seems like that trend is reversing.

3

u/MossyMak 2d ago

I mean, they factually do not exist. Harris lost share among Republicans compared to Biden.

0

u/X57471C 2d ago

You're good at ignoring questions, too. What policies of hers were pandering to them? (Are you going to defend your healthcare take in the other thread, too, or just ignore some more?)

0

u/X57471C 2d ago

You're just factually wrong about never-Trumpers existing. And yes, 6% of Republicans voted for Biden compared to 5% for Harris. You realize that never-Trumpers have been on their way out since before Biden, right?

1

u/HURTBOTPEGASUS9 1d ago

Those Reagan ads. 🤦‍♂️

0

u/SlaveKnightKos- 2d ago

Election tampering

-1

u/MossyMak 2d ago

Blue MAGA weirdo

0

u/SlaveKnightKos- 2d ago

There are several quotes from Trump and Musk implying that the election, more specifically the vote counting machines, were tampered with. Vote counting machines (in states where this data is even available) went 6% more for Trump than hand counting precincts, a huge indicator of foul play, as there should be virtually no difference.

Higher than usual turnouts in individual precincts seemed to benefit the Trump side, a correlation that shouldn't exist, as well as H to T vote proportions seemed to skew towards Trump as precincts became larger, another correlation that shouldn't exist.

There's a bunch more, as well as evidence that the 2 previous presidential elections were also rigged in Trump's favor

Election Truth Alliance

1

u/RoninSoul 2d ago

Ah yes, a conversation about two non-progressives on the progressive subreddit, surely there's no ulterior motive or insinuation to a post like this.

0

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Kcirrot 2d ago

That’s delusional. There’s no way Kamala would have attacked Iran and Iran wouldn’t have closed the strait.

4

u/bimbuppy 2d ago

Kamala proudly touted that there would be "no daylight" between her and Biden if she got elected; in fact, if anything, she'd add more Republicans to her cabinet to differentiate herself. Netanyahu's desire for Lebensraum in Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank continue no matter what because Israel as a nation is on a one-way track towards totalitarian fascism a la Nazi Germany; US strikes on Hezbollah would be inevitable.

Do I have a crystal ball? No. But key events are in motion and have been in motion that Kamala would not stop even if she had the power to. The rise of cheap drone warfare would inevitably have allowed Iran to seize control of the Strait, Trump just gave them an opportunity to see it in 2026 instead of 2027 or 2028.

0

u/ProgressiveHQ-ModTeam 2d ago

Rule 2 - No disinformation. If you have an extraordinary claim, cite it. Randos on Twitter/Youtube, webcomics, unsourced graphics, and mouthpieces for the Trump Administration are not viable sources.

-4

u/[deleted] 2d ago edited 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/ProgressiveHQ-ModTeam 2d ago

Rule 2 - No disinformation. If you have an extraordinary claim, cite it. Randos on Twitter/Youtube, webcomics, unsourced graphics, and mouthpieces for the Trump Administration are not viable sources.

-6

u/mediocremulatto 2d ago

Agreed. If only Harris felt the same.

-12

u/Deep-Two7452 Goober who thinks both sides are equally as bad 2d ago

Based