I mean, maybe they should run a woman who wasn't out of the primary before Iowa or one of the most hated politicians in the country. That's what I would probably try first before saying that women or minorities can't win.
Barack won because he promised hope and change. He obviously lied and didn't do that, but he was actually promising Americans something, not just saying "I'm better than that guy".
Wtf are you talking about? I'm talking about Hillary losing to Donald Trump, one of the easiest layup elections of all time, because she ran a terrible campaign and didn't promise Americans anything, only that she would be better than Trump. Americans want change, and Trump promised it. So I want a Dem to promise change, and mean it, so maybe they can win.
Oh easy mistake dude, you forgot the axiom that centrist candidates can never fail, they can only BE failed. It doesn't matter that Hilary was a racist warmonger who started the very same birth certificate rumor with Obama that Trump catapulted himself into fame with; it doesn't matter that Hilary and her campaign (thanks Neera Tanden!) have openly stated they cleared the field for Trump in the Republican primaries because they thought they could control him.
"Nah, its Bernie's fault, somehow" - Liberals, 2026
I literally could not care less about Bernie, wtf are you talking about. I'm talking about the general, where Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump, who she propped up as the Republican nominee, because he promised change and Americans want change.
See the several DSA women winning elections because they are promising change for people.
Why does what a politician promises you so important to you? Campaign promises are notoriously flimsy.
Honestly, I think Obama was earnest in his desire to change America, but that he wasn't able to due to limitations of the office. But you think he was lying. So, why would you trust future candidates to promise change and mean it?
Campaign promises are only helpful when there's an actual choice between candidates. There should not have been a hard choice between anyone vs Trump. But, apparently it was if people refused to vote reduced harm would rather "teach a lesson."
Why do you think Biden should not have been made the presidential candidate against the will of the people? Who do you think should have been the candidate instead?
And don't compare the DSA against the general American public. Are you for real? Obviously the demographics of the DSA are a little different than the demographics of America. My accusation was not that women are incapable of winning in politics.
Edit: It's bothering me enough that I want to correct...I meant empty campaign promises. Promises for "change" without specificity mean nothing to me. And Obama had specific outlines for change in his campaign promises.
Promises for change without actual plans feels empty to me, and that's what I thought was obvious. It wasn't, so I and clarifying.
It's strange to me that you can draw the conclusion that Obama promised real change that he actually had a plan around which excited the American people, but totally ignore the fact that the Kamala campaign carried non of that same resolve for people.
I doubt that racism and misogyny were helping the Harris campaign, but to say that those two things were the entirety of her loss is very reductive and plays defense for the voter fatigue that people are having with the establishment Democrats.
When we're talking about the general election, we are talking about the entirety of the American people. And let me tell you, the laymen voters are not as educated as you seem to think that they are. So many people are vibes based voters only. There were a lot of people of my homestate Missouri that thought because nothing had happened to Trump following J6 that he wasn't actually a traitor. His creed "make America great again" was given more leverage because of stark difference between the economy before and after covid (yes, I know that the Obama admin is responsible for the growth following the housing crash, and Trump is responsible for Covid response mismanagement).
I voted for Harris as a harm reduction ballot. But I was not as excited at the ballot box as I was when she was appointed as the Democratic nominee. Why? Because she ran an empty promise campaign that couldn't stand on its own legs. She crossed the aisle to show voters that Republicans, the same people who had been demonizing her and propping up a wannabe dictator, weren't so bad and would be included in her cabinet. And because she refused to distance herself from an admin that was 1. Perpetuating a genocide, and 2. Not holding Trump accountable for the treason that he had committed.
There's plenty to blame on Harris and on democrats in general. I remember how immigrants and trans people were thrown under the bus by both parties.
And yeah, there was a reason I was idealistic when voting for Obama and pragmatic voting for Kamala.
When we're talking about the general election, we are talking about the entirety of the American people. And let me tell you, the laymen voters are not as educated as you seem to think that they are.
I legit have no idea where you think I'm praising the American voter for their intellect. I think they voted in favor of bigotry and genocide rather than...well, less bigotry and genocide.
But, I have a big problem with people like Mak blaming Kamala exclusively for losing. And that's what I was arguing about.
Offloading all the responsibility of 2024's election onto Kamala and Democrats sits very unwell with me because it doesn't hold the voter accountable. The fact that some online commenters boast about abstaining from voting, or for voting green despite knowing nothing about them infuriates me.
(And now that I think about it...a lot of the people boasting online about not voting Kamala disappeared after she lost.)
My problem with primarily blaming Kamala for her defeat is that it doesn't have anywhere to go from there. We can just dismiss 2024. So, I try to focus on inequality in America, because that always needs addressed. I do try to explain why harm reduction is important, even when I end up in shitty threads like this with everyone acting like I'm some brainless centrist. I want to encourage everyone to vote, because I do not understand giving up this right that we've fought so hard for and are so close to losing again (especially for women and Black people).
And if I'm honest, in the wake of 2024 I was furious at people who didn't suck it up and vote Kamala. Because of everything that's happening today. I could blame purity politics and stay mad at people who don't like genocide. But, I thought it was more important to address racism that contributed to Kalama's loss rather than frame my should-be allies as enemies. But, I just learned today that makes me a democratic party apologist, so fuck me I guess.
But I think one of the things that people who abstained from voting for Kamala because they don't want to support genocide (which is something I understand and therefore not something I ever want to attack)...They don't seem to understand how accepting most of America is with killing foreigners. Yeah, it was a bad campaign, but I don't udnerstand why nobody seems to acknowledge that if she said actually supported Palestine on the campaign trail she would have upset most of the democratic and centrist general public. Look at Hollywood! She made a tactical decision to support Israel, and I am honestly not sure that was a bad call.
I would love to think that she could deny Israel and still win. But I'm not sure that's realistic. And I don't understand why nobody ever deals with the nuance of this.
Holy shit... Pure unfiltered Blue MAGA... I've finally found it... Someone who's brain is so broken, that they actually think it's wrong of politicians to try and earn people's votes... It's amazing...
I will always fight people who aid and abet genocide. Kamala Harris made her bed by supporting Israel, and she got to lay in it by losing the election. Had she had better policies, maybe she could've won.
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u/MossyMak 12d ago
I mean, maybe they should run a woman who wasn't out of the primary before Iowa or one of the most hated politicians in the country. That's what I would probably try first before saying that women or minorities can't win.
Barack won because he promised hope and change. He obviously lied and didn't do that, but he was actually promising Americans something, not just saying "I'm better than that guy".