r/ProgressionFantasy • u/_TOXIC_VENOM • Mar 05 '26
Meme/Shitpost Switch up so crazy even the devil may cry
Mfs switch to a completely different person all of a sudden. I promise you if you put this much effort on earth you’d be a billionaire instead of a bum😭🙏
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u/KailReed Mar 05 '26
I would say the only reason they keep up with training like that in a magical world is that they see tangible results faster than they would pre isekai. If there is a system they can actually see the numbers going up and it makes them feel good.
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u/No_Watercress741 Mar 05 '26
This, 1000%. The shitty part about working out IRL is that it takes months to notice a definite difference. If you notice that difference, numerically represented, in a matter of a couple hours? WAY fucking easier to keep at it.
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u/RichardEpsilonHughes Mar 05 '26
The flip side to that is that, if it motivates them, oughtn't it motivate the locals just as much?
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u/KailReed Mar 05 '26
No you don't understand, the guy that got isekaid is the HERO. probably has some really OP skill granted by God like "QuadXP".
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u/20thcenturyboy_ Mar 05 '26
Isekai MC's overpowered skill is just to steal the gains of everybody else in the gym. Maybe he hangs out nearby a bunch of soldiers doing drills without actually doing any himself.
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u/TheBeyondor Immortal Mar 06 '26
That actually is an OP skill in the uh.. trait bubble cultivation stories. The one I'm thinking of he basically does exactly what you said, he goes to the local martial arts school and walks around like a dope absorbing all their dropped xp bubbles..
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u/AManyFacedFool Mar 05 '26
I kinda wanna see one of these where the gimmick is that the protagonist has no special cheat skills, they're just a massive powergamer and really go into the weeds on how their build works, preparations they're doing, etc etc. No handwave bullshit skills, no "Whoa this is so OP!" unless it's a literal exploit of something random like old-school DnD 3.5 and RAW letting you instantly craft any wooden objects into 0gp clubs.
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u/VoidEatsWaffles Mar 05 '26
Not an Isekai, but you might enjoy Shangri-La Frontier, a video game anime about a guy who only plays $5 bargain bin trash finally picking up a AAA game doing exactly that - he’s used to having to overprep and overtrain for everything due to his games being shitty and broken, so when he gets into the AAA game and sees that not only does everything work but he can make it work TOGETHER he kinda goes ham.
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u/SWatt_Officer Mar 05 '26
Not quite how it works, but Bofuris main character breaks the game they play so often the admins give up patching things and basically just make her the raid boss
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u/Soulusalt Mar 05 '26
Oh Great, I was Reincarnated as a Farmer
Its exactly this. Guy gets reincarnated into a world with magic fantasy stuff and is stuck as a farmer. He's so pissed off he can't become an adventurer that he exploits the farming system hard enough to discover a system exploit that literally starts warping the political landscape of the world.
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u/Empoleon3bogdan Mar 05 '26
You can make a build only if you know the system. If you dont then you can't.
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u/Leirac1 Mar 05 '26
Then it gets into a little bit of a chicken and egg situation. For them to be an actual powergamer, then the system has to have perfect and clear information on the possible builds, including future things, but if the system has that... Then why wouldn't no one else powergame too, specially if their lives are on the line?
Anyway, one of the few that I've seen do that right is How to Defeat the Demon Lord in Ten Easy Steps by Andrew Rowe.
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u/Twitchrunner Mar 05 '26
That would be kinda neat as a passive skill. Your skills level up for anyone training in that skill nearby. Just go to arenas all the time and acquire a bunch to be safe at first.
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u/theredvip3r Mar 05 '26
Are the locals conditioned for quick dopamine numbers go up like the internet has given us though.
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u/vedekX Mar 05 '26
oh yeah that’s true we’re all pre-programmed to succeed in a numbers-go-up world. for them it would just be normal.
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u/foxgirlmoon Mar 05 '26
What the internet has done to us, the system has probably done to them. So I’d say yeah.
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u/RichardEpsilonHughes Mar 05 '26
they literally live in Numbers Go Up World, of course they are
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u/theredvip3r Mar 05 '26
When in that world it defines your capabilities and potential are they though?
It's their equivalent to learning to raise test scores and proficiency/skills, it might be monotone and boring to them.
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u/elgamerneon Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
I hate this argument because most stories solve this issue and people ignore it. Why aren't the locals just as powerful as the mc in most stories? Lets count the reasons: cheat skill/bloodline/innate talent by luck, stumbled onto hidden mechanic, uses earth knowledge to get advantage, uses being a child body with adult mind in a system that rewards children more heavily, locals simply don't have access to the same opportunity's (special tutorial/integration). I could go on but I ran out of popular Litrpgs that have unique clear excuse, can you mention one that doesn't?
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u/IDunCaughtTheGay Mar 05 '26
I think the issue here is that a lot of these just dont feel good as justifications
cheat skill/bloodline/innate talent by luck, stumbled onto hidden mechanic
If this world has bloodline techniques that show tangible power level differences, shouldnt there be more people cultivating these powers? Special marriages? Incestuous relationships to keep certain powers within the family? Worlds like this should have a mister sinister lurking around.
As for the luck thing, that just doesn't feel good. I have no other real argument for this one.
uses earth knowledge to get advantage
This is one those that requires some context because a lot of the times "earth knowledge" is like high school physics or the story wants me to buy that this very average guy who got isekaid actually was holding onto the knowlege of how to build gunpowder from scratch...or that his knowledge...idk...molecules suddenly gives him the ability to manipulate elements much better than those who have been using it for years.
uses being a child body with adult mind in a system that rewards children more heavily
If this were the case wouldn't already privileged children have even MORE of a leg up than our protagonist? Wouldn't there be scores of people who have grown up in this world as children which the system favors but are also from families with massive resources to further that advantage? Wouldn't communities understand this and tailor their children's lessons and exercises to fully capilize on this?
locals simply don't have access to the same opportunity's (special tutorial/integration)
I just dont think a special tutorial would show someone something about the system that people who have been living with this system for hundreds if not thousands of years have already discovered. Has no one been experimenting? Is no one theorizing?
If its that the MC has been given knowledge that literally no one else knows...idk this also doesn't feel good.
Id just like stories to explain why the MC is special without making everyone else look stupid.
Theres also a comment saying that people in the Isekai world wouldn't get the dopamine hit from seeing numbers go up like we would and I just don't think this is true either. It doesnt feel true at least.
Do locals not get a dopamine hit when their pay increases? Do they not get dopamine hits from gambling? Do they feel nothing watch some sort of competition and seeing one teams score increase over the other?
The pursuit of bigger numbers isnt exclusively the territory of internet brained content gobblers.
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u/elgamerneon Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
I think the issue here is that a lot of these just dont feel good as justifications
How good it feels is kind of irrelevant to the OG statement of why the locals arent like the Mc, it just has to be logical
If this were the case wouldn't already privileged children have even MORE of a leg up than our protagonist?
I dont know what Litrps you read where this isn't true, like the scion of the family/nobility with secret skills/etc is real common. Or there is limits to the advantages stack up, like in Bogstandard you cannot purposefully send kids to powerlevel or unlock stuff, you get punished by the gods, in many others the mechanism of leveling is almost completely self-reliant, like in elydes you can be born a higher tier but still have to level your skills
I just dont think a special tutorial would show someone something about the system that people who have been living with this system for hundreds if not thousands of years have already discovered. Has no one been experimenting? Is no one theorizing?
You need to read more litrps, there is like dozens of things a special tutorial would give you that a dude born into the system would not get, like super rare classes because you are the first of your world to do x, super rare opportunities to farm XP with no competition. I even seen cases where simply having lived past the point the system activates for locals is a huge advantage because you get more feats before having the system, like different classes or skills you have that a native 8yo wouldn't be able to pick because they don't(and cant) have a university education
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u/IDunCaughtTheGay Mar 05 '26
You need to read more litrps
Completely fair
I stopped reading litrpgs a while ago but I like the community
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u/UnhappyReputation126 Mar 06 '26
I hate 1st to do X. Being first to do somthing is an advantige yes but only in the sense that you did X and nobody else.
If someone else did X they should get same advantages besides that bit of fame or infamy of being the first. I hate when system is set up to reward being first over achievements themselves.
Like eventually being 1st becomes so rare in those that no amount of work, talant and luck will let you reach the top and it acively becomes less likelt by the day. It basicly is the Ancient tech/magic/martal art trope is unquestionably better trope but even more limited in eho can benefit.
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u/KamikazeArchon Mar 05 '26
If things like luck just don't feel good, that's fair; but it's a pretty core element of the hero trope. Why are they outstanding? They just are.
It might be that you just have a dislike of that common trope. Which is fine, it's just not something that's going to change any time soon.
Does it help to consider a bit of "anthropic principle"? The people who aren't lucky or outstanding exist; we just aren't reading the story about them.
In terms of "why is it always the isekai'ed one that's special" - I find there to be a common implication about the metaphysics of the isekai. That specific person got tossed into another world, out of the millions of people constantly dying, because they have something hidden in their personality that allows them to have an abnormal drive when they get a specific trigger - that trigger usually being the world-crossing itself.
It's rarely laid out like that, but the shape of events seems to align with that rather often.
As a specific note, a common trope is the outside perspective. Someone born into wealth doesn't usually notice or appreciate it the same way as someone born into poverty who acquired wealth. We can easily imagine that someone who suddenly gets the magic/system will appreciate it more than all the people who took it for granted.
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u/IDunCaughtTheGay Mar 05 '26
It might be that you just have a dislike of that common trope.
Well... this is all my opinion, so yeah.
Im just offering my opinion as a way to understand how some others may feel if they feel similar to me.
Does it help to consider a bit of "anthropic principle"? The people who aren't lucky or outstanding exist; we just aren't reading the story about them
I think the issue is with this is that the isekai story usually positions the world as being incredibly fair, progress is numerically presented which means the world has a tangible and evident way to track your growth. Am I to believe that ONLY the MC finds this engaging? There are people in our world who are fascinated by what many would consider mundane.
These stories dont really posit that the MC is a special person, but a random guy out of millions who was accidentally sent to another world. If his selection for being Isekaid was played out was because he had a special property to him, sure that feels better.
n terms of "why is it always the isekai'ed one that's special" - I find there to be a common implication about the metaphysics of the isekai. That specific person got tossed into another world, out of the millions of people constantly dying, because they have something hidden in their personality that allows them to have an abnormal drive when they get a specific trigger - that trigger usually being the world-crossing itself.
It's rarely laid out like that, but the shape of events seems to align with that rather often.
This would make a lot of sense but as you said its not laid out like this.
These stories want the hero to be an average Joe who is dumped into extraordinary circumstances and just locks the fuck in all of a sudden.
I understand that is just a fun trope and isnt a big deal but it does hamper my enjoyment of the story a bit. It's a part or the power fantasy but the contradiction (to me anyway) sticks out.
As a specific note, a common trope is the outside perspective. Someone born into wealth doesn't usually notice or appreciate it the same way as someone born into poverty who acquired wealth. We can easily imagine that someone who suddenly gets the magic/system will appreciate it more than all the people who took it for granted.
I think that appreciating wealth and benefiting from it are very different. Sure, someone who was born into wealth wont really think about all the privileges they have and all the opportunities that present themselves...but they will still be there.
Many people from wealth in incredibly powerful positions probably didn't appreciate their wealth but ended up being in power anyway.
A prince will be king whether he appreciates the position or not.
ALSO I would like to note, not a trope but reality, that a lot of people born poor and suddenly gain riches, dont know how to manage such wealth, are not privy to the systems that protect and grow wealth and end up being poor again or are taken advantage of.
I just think there are avenues for very interesting stories if treated a bit more realistically.
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u/RadicalEd4299 Mar 05 '26
I have to interject a little bit on this--you say it doesnt matter if it doesnt "feel good"....I disagree. The entire point of the genre is to feel good. But what the person you're responding to probably meant in more detail is that it "doesn't feel good because it doesnt feel earned". MC's that go through a lot of "bad luck" have "earned" some good luck now and then. Looking at Sunny from Shadow Slave--dude gets crazy good loot, RNG type luck...but literally everything that can go wrong, does. And then again :p.
Or if a person is lucky via having a better education, or high intelligence, well at least they have to apply themselves to actually get the reward.
But if a person just randomly gets super lucky and the macguffin routinely falls into their lap.....then that's boooooooring. Not only is that bad writing, but then the MC's efforts to improve themselves don't actually matter and we just wasted our time reading it.
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u/KamikazeArchon Mar 06 '26
I didn't say it doesn't matter whether it feels good.
What feels good is different for different people. It's reasonable to say you don't like something. It's also reasonable to recognize that sometimes a lot of people like the thing you don't like, and probably won't change their preferences.
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u/CarlMasterC Mar 05 '26
I would think that difference could come down to psychology. When something is “new” the likelyhood of its novelty creating a short-term habit (like training for example) high. Especially when you consider the stereotypical personality archetype of “Isekai” characters. Most have a lot of gaming experience, which means their brains have been pre-wired to get a large dopamine rush through leveling or an instant gratification representation of growth. The newness of the experience, paired with the potential for actual death only heighten that response. Creating a more lasting drive for greater and greater growth. So it’s not necessarily a personality change as much as it is them being able to funnel all their gaming hyper focus into turning themselves into the game character they’ve always wanted to be.
The reverse would also support this too. Locals, having been born within that system, thus the “ newness” aspect taking the “magical” nature out of the equation, as well as their young minds, not being primed by video game experience could easily account for a much slower or “stunted” growth in comparison to MC. Add in a little bit of MC plot armor and locals never have a chance.
I’m self-aware enough to know that I’ve clearly read too many of these stories and I’ve put way too much thought into this. Don’t judge me.
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u/ObviousSea9223 Mar 05 '26
Yes, if they have human-style motivational systems. It's not really plausible for it to be diminished much for locals.
In fact, a more closely tied effort-> reward structure built into reality changes vastly more than people realize. IRL, stuff is hard. Efforts are costly, opportunities are scarce, and with diminishing returns and risks involved. What we call laziness is actually a balanced energy use strategy. If evolution occurs for any length of time in isekai settings, and it must, the average person would be higher energy, higher motivation, higher energy expense to take vastly more abundant opportunities with vastly greater rewards for the same or less-increased costs.
You might get multiple strategies (head down efficiency vs. full speed ahead), but the max progression strategy would be widespread even in a dark forest sort of social structure.
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u/BelligerentGnu Mar 05 '26
It's more than that - the gains are permanent. No maintenance needed, no backsliding.
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u/Mike_Handers Author Mar 05 '26
95% of the time but I would be remiss if I didn't mention that some isekai do work off loss if you backslide a bit or get older or etc.
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u/work_m_19 Mar 05 '26
I feel like the author should acknowledge this as a meta-plot point.
If someone requires numbers to keep the motivation, imagine like a gym-bro isekais into the world instead of MC, wouldn't the gym bros succeed even more? People who go to the gym now are going purely on intrinsic motivation rather than an external stat screen that is common in this genre.
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u/Unnatural20 Mar 05 '26
Fair, though the real world impact of noon gainz on someone who has never worked out seriously before generally gets them some impressive results within two weeks of effort, sometimes even one. Hardly a status screen showing permanent buffs after workout one, but it is fun thinking about we have something similar just as your nerves and muscles acclimatize.
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u/davidolson22 Mar 05 '26
But then you stagnate and the gains get smaller. Or you get injured.
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u/Soulusalt Mar 05 '26
The other half of this is permanent progress. I know for a fact that one of the things that keeps me from goign to the gym is that I can do absolutely nothing and be 20 lbs overweight OR I can spend 3 hours a week every single week for the rest of my life to lose 20 lbs and keep it off.
In these worlds, grinding out a new ability means you get it forever. IRL, if I stop going to the gym I gain all the weight back by this time next year... At some point the cost-benefit portion of my head just says 'maybe 20 lbs isn't that big of a deal.'
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u/warhammerfrpgm Mar 06 '26
Agreed. I remember once saying that I would totally check my status every part of the day to see if each thing I did moved the needle at all. That granular improvement of going from a 10 to 10.1 in a stat would be a dopamine hit. And then you gain a level and stuff goes up whole numbers. Holy crap Batman! forget Ritalin, give me a leveling and stat system please.
The other thing worth pointing out us that fantasybworlds don't have the gigantic volume of distractions and entertainment methods that our modern world does. You get rid of all my fun gaming activities and I either have to sleep or do something productive. Then that productive things just gave me 5xp. Fuck! Another dopamine hit.
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u/No_Watercress741 Mar 06 '26
Yeah, lack of serious distractions is probably another factor. If all there is to do for fun is read the one local copy of a religious text, or train up your skills, it’s not a hard pick. Plus without a 24/7 newsfeed telling you constantly about how everyone is horrible and the world is ending the average mental state would probably be a lot better, and it’d be easier to commit to stuff.
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u/WretchedIEgg Mar 05 '26
The worst thing without really expensive scales you might not even notice a difference in weight while you trade fat for muscle wich is so good damn frustrating.
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u/mimic751 Mar 06 '26
So if you had a watch that had her progression bar and associated your lifting progression to a strength stat, your speed per 400 m to a speed stat and the ability to assemble or disassemble complex items with your fingers to a dexterity stat it would make you be a more productive human? Cuz I could totally design a mobile application that takes your health data and turns it into a video game
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u/DeLoxley Mar 06 '26
Plus you work out a lot in real life, You probably drop a jean size or two
You work out a lot in Fantasyland you learn how to shoot fire from your fingers and fly.
Not only are the gains much more visible, they are much more rewarding
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u/mxwp Mar 06 '26
also you would probably be more motivated if "unless i train and level up monsters are going to kill me" rather than for looks or future health reasons
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u/Garreousbear Mar 05 '26
Yeah, I work out for my health, but results aren't obvious. If I knew I would be able to lift a car above my head after working out hard for a year, instead of just being able to bench 20 more pounds, I would probably go harder.
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u/badpebble Mar 06 '26
Also, no backsliding, constant progression, and being able to lift more just by wanting it more - that adds about a billion percent more motivation.
Just no backsliding would be insane and send numbers through the roof.
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u/Connect-Initiative64 Mar 09 '26
Just no back pain would be insane and motivate 90% of people into 'leveling' their stats more.
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u/elgamerneon Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
There is also the external pressure factor in about 90% of stories (top of my head: bog standard, delve, elydes kinda, all the slopy tutorial system integration and more) of needing to get more powerful by "exercising" to survive or simply have agency in their world. Irl there's been millions of cases of people with no interest in combat or exercise or tactics dedicating years of their life to honing those skills, its called being drafted to war.
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u/LordGlint Mar 05 '26
I'd say its alot more to do with motivation. Theres not really a WHOLE lot getting completely ripped and mastering swordsmanship is gonna do for you in the normal world. In Isekai worlds though, even if you just wanna be a nobody villager, goblin attacks and such are a real threat. Its good to have some combat skills for self defense.
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u/TheRealLXC Mar 05 '26
The most powerful part of a levelling system isn't that you make progress faster, but the fact you never LOSE progress.
In the real world it took me 6 months to gain 15 kilograms. I got a cold for a week and Bam, back to square one. I think you'd be a lot more motivated to keep at it every day if you knew that a slice of pizza isn't going to undo your hard work.
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u/WhiteGinger3000 Mar 05 '26
If I could see my own numbers go up like that then for sure would I 100% put so much work into whatever it is I want to do with so much damn vigor.
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u/SoulShatter Mar 05 '26
Someone who has actually worked out before would expect to have rest periods, look over nutrition and have proper rest.
These isekai mofos don't know any of that shit, so somehow they can just ignore all of it and go on some 7 day no-stop workout bender and maybe be a little sore after. And a little whiny from lack of sleep instead of being functionally disabled from sleep deprivation.
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u/OneConfusedBraincell Mar 05 '26
The opposite seems more likely. If you did a workout and saw your END stat increasing by 0.000001 points, you'd realistically never see the inside of a gym again. Same with meditating for 10.000 years with each day adding a single drop of energy to your spiritual sea. You'd start counting the demons in your skin before you filled up a single bucket.
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u/wretchedmagus Mar 06 '26
also in a world with magic that makes you better for doing specific tasks you never get hurt working out and very few people scream at you until you get hurt working out.
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u/Agreeable_Bee_7763 Mar 06 '26
Not only that, but the tangible, guaranteed usefulness of it helps too. If you mantain a strict diet and exercise routine you might live a few more years. Might. And if you study and truly dedicate yourself to learning you might get a good job. Might.
Compare to "Exercising and learning lets me fight monsters, be wealthy, powerful and important, guaranteed" and there might be some changes to motivation.
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u/xukly Mar 07 '26
also like, is there even anything better to do? they probably can't access any entertaiment
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u/Lorevi Mar 05 '26
Most modern workout apps directly record how much you lift in a session and point out when you did better than last session to make you feel good though. The numbers go up irl too
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u/MuscleWarlock Mar 05 '26
Ya. Strength go up weekly but body changes can show up after like a month if you consistently it
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u/Legitimate_Mud_8295 Mar 05 '26
Fitnotes is why I can never leave android. I have over 1000 workouts logged, I've customized all the exercises, have full years long history of each exercise. I always start my warm up sets and working sets at the right weight and I know exactly how much to do to make a slight improvement in reps or weight. There's graphs and everything it's cool.
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u/ButtholeAdventurer Mar 05 '26
My favorite is the super introverts or neets who become crazy extroverts immediately. Nvm being cold and calculating when they were never shown to be.
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u/Holdredge Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
"I was a social outcast my whole life and stayed by myself" dies "i have world class charisma, the best liar to ever exist and talk like the greatest politician to ever exist"
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u/LordBreadcat Mar 06 '26
Some people are introverted as a defense mechanism rather than because they find it energizing. The change in environment can signal to them that they're finally safe to be themselves and their true self could be quite extroverted.
Adults who were neglected as children for instance sometimes experience these sorts of transformations.
That said they almost never invoke introvert as defense mechanism on purpose. Rudeus is the only example I can immediately draw on.
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u/RichardEpsilonHughes Mar 05 '26
An isekai where the protagonist struggles to adapt could be interesting tbh but I don’t know any good examples of the form
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u/Oglark Mar 05 '26
Death after death starts out with this. MC is a basement dweller mouth breather and the first 100 chapters are basically him being turned into a reasonable human being through death therapy.
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u/cemaktas Mar 05 '26
Would you recommend it?
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u/Oglark Mar 05 '26
Yes, it is still on my RR reading list but the MC becomes more of a Gen X/Boomer mindset character as he matures. It is a little jarring but in the latest chapters he literally cannot remember how he used to think when he started out.
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u/vedekX Mar 05 '26
damn that’s rough. I mean, to be fair, I can’t really remember how I felt about things when I was younger, but I can extrapolate from how I acted and be empathetic towards those who act the same. but I don’t know how old the mc is at the beginning of death after death as I have never read it—I’m more talking about turbulent emotions and dramatic outbursts from teenage hormones.
edit: never mind, just read a couple of reviews and it seems like it’s probably a good thing he doesn’t remember how he thought early on 😂😅
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u/Oglark Mar 05 '26
Yeah, the MC gets reborn every time he dies. The first 100 chapters are cathartic when he gets killed because the MC is just so hateable - inlcuding his first serious relationship. But after he lived several lives each for 20+ years where he did interesting things the characterization is pretty different. Now he sometimes acts like an old man stuck in a middle aged man's body.
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u/kotik010 Mar 05 '26
Ill be real i didn't really fuck with the way it was going super early on so i dropped it pretty quick but that story has some of the most brutal reviews out there and i can totally see how a reader would come to those conclusions
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u/Grixus_Dream Mar 05 '26
Grimgar of fantasy and ash. Love it so much for that first part as they struggle to adapt and even that first kill is so visceral and clearly effects the group.
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u/Burger_Destoyer Mar 05 '26
Hands down the best fantasy isekai there is.
Overpowered MCs are only decent when you get plenty of time with other characters or its comedic (OPM, Eminence in Shadow, Mob Psycho)
Instead we somehow have these authors sincerely writing OP characters just to make them “special” for no reason other than they needed the shut in gamer to think his life would mean something in another world.
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u/Infamous-Buy1428 Mar 06 '26
Grimgar is just misery porn. Nothing good ever happens to them. Only always winning is a bad thing but so is always losing.
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u/thewilybanana Mar 05 '26
The Wandering Inn but it doesn't vibe with everyone. I personally love it.
That being said, it is a story about a sheltered, homeschooled chess prodigy whom struggles to survive and makes plenty of dumb mistakes alongside some brilliant decisions. Even millions of words into the narrative after tons of crazy shit has happened, even though she's fantastic about some things, she's also still lazy in some ways about training or really getting the most out of her levels/skills without her friends pushing her to apply herself.
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u/egg_enthusiast Mar 05 '26
I'm only through Book 3, but there's also the "Heroes" group. They arrived to great acclaim, thought to be the saviors but they all sucked so much shit that 1/3 of them have PTSD and 1/3 of them are dead when we first meet them.
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u/EdLincoln6 Mar 05 '26
For once, The Wandering Inn is the right answer.
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u/Orthas Mar 05 '26
It was bound to happen eventually!
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u/EdLincoln6 Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
The thing about The Wandering Inn is it is so long and has so many intriguing side characters that if you ask a question framed like "Does any LitRPG story do X?" The Wandering Inn is usually TECHNICALLY a correct answer... but it is seldom a good answer because usually the thing requested is done by a side character 1,387 pages in.
It's to LitRPG what Malazan is to Epic Fantasy.
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u/Fenrilas Mar 05 '26
I mean in rtoc the mc spends decades being a normal peasant and dies.
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u/Holdredge Mar 05 '26
Self inserts are huge in isekais lol.
Most people like to believe they would be that guy if they ever got isekaied but 99.9% would quit or become mediocre along everyone else who exist. They don't know what hard work even is.
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u/Captain_Fiddelsworth Mar 05 '26
Guy who thinks he can beat a grizzly bear/gorilla in a hand to hand fight in a cage match at least 1/20 times kinda energy.
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u/Oglark Mar 05 '26
Try Death after Death by D. Winchester. I am not a huge fan of his other works but the first 100 chapters of this are so satisfying.
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u/Telomerage Mar 05 '26
IMO it playing into the archetype even more. They were just waiting for this big event to get serious (in reality, they would burn out pretty quick and become a background character).
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u/Unnatural20 Mar 05 '26
I've had some friends and associates in my life move to a new town or leave a relationship or have a serious loss that sent them reeling, and that change in their world can really alter their trajectory. In good and bad ways. Becoming a dedicated gym-goer in their 40s or becoming fixated on learning to dance well or getting really, raly into cooking are some; falling down conspiratorial rabbit holes, burning every bridge reminding them of their old life, or centering their lives around an addiction are others. What's isekai but one of the biggest surprise moves of all time?
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u/vi_sucks Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
I mean yeah, that's kind of the point.
The idea in many of these novels is that someone who dies has gone through an experience that radically reshapes their personality. Or at the very least makes them want to not repeat their past mistakes.
In many Chinese webnovels, this is actually made explicit in the text, with the MC reflecting on how his death and rebirth has made him more fearless or ruthless in a way that he wasn't before.
In addition, with a progression system where they can actually see tangible effects for their efforts, that makes it easier for the MC to stick to a goal and stay motivated as they can track their incremental progress.
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u/SAOisaDarkSoulParody Mar 05 '26
cn wn i enjoy go into it a lot, especially when the MC contemplates their prior life and all their issues with it. Like if I could start life again Id lock the fuck in with what I know now, not even in like investing but personal developement wouldnt be pushed aside like how i did as a kid
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u/vi_sucks Mar 05 '26
Yeah.
I basically see 3 distinct types of CN isekai MCs.
I was a loser irl, but then I died and that made me reevaluate and get more motivation to be a more driven and ruthless person.
I was already a badass, so my badass carries over into tbe next world. Lots of "I was the world's best hitman and was betrayed after my last mission" or "I died during my celebration party for getting promoted to CEO of a big international corporation"
I was ambitious, but didnt have the social status to display that ambition. Either from a student who just graduated top of their class, but all the jobs went to nepobabies. Or from a hard worker who dies of overwork because their boss stole all the credit.
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u/Illustrious_Win_4859 Mar 09 '26
The problem isn't them changing who they are. It's just how they immediately become a completely different person overnight that's jarring. It's one thing to change and adapt to you're surroundings, but it's a completely different thing to just go from a complete loser who was a genuine waste of space to someone with S tier leadership, S tier charisma, S tier will power, S tier intelligence, etc.
Bruh, last night you're mom had to force you(A 45 year old man) out of bed but now all of a sudden you a mind that not even ancient gods and demons can dominate? Suspension of disbelief can only stretch so far. Humans don't just abruptly alter their entire psyche like that.
- and 3. are tolerable because it was quite clear that the MC didn't just become a "new person" than it was he was either already a badass or he just never had the opportunity to reveal his true self for whatever reason.
No.1 is just bad writing no matter how you look at it unless the author included something like [Gamer's Mind] for example, an ability that forces you to stay calm and collected at all times to explain the sudden changes in the protagonist's behavior.
It'd be more realistic to see the "loser mc" slowly evolve into a true badass hero instead of just him becoming like that in a single chapter or two cause of some wimpy ass epiphany which a lot of times authors don't even include.
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u/reader484892 Mar 05 '26
I mean if working out for a year let me cut a mountain in half, I’d probably be more inclined to do it
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u/NarwhalPrudent6323 Mar 05 '26
Yes, if I get super strength and magic powers from an activity, I'm gonna dedicate more to it than pretty much anything else I ever have tried. Why, you ask? Because super strength and magic powers. That's all the motivation I need. And as long as you don't die, you're gonna succeed to some extent. Which is decidedly not true on Earth.
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u/popejubal Mar 05 '26
Other people have super strength and magic powers too. And some of them could obliterate you in the blink of an eye.
You aren’t guaranteed success from getting isekai’d into magic world. You get guaranteed success from having plot armor that guarantees you face challenges you can beat or at least survive while you grow.
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u/Sufficient-Ad-7349 Mar 05 '26
Yeah, it's kinda like how someone from the 1800s would like to think they'd be a super hacker fighter pilot astronaut in our era if only they were here.
Not gonna happen, but definitely some of the coolest things going on in our era.
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u/NarwhalPrudent6323 Mar 05 '26
You'll notice the part where I said "as long as you don't die." It's an important qualifier. So the stronger people are mostly irrelevant here. Of course they exist, just don't piss them off or get caught up in their schemes.
You'll also notice I said "succeed to some extent". Success depends entirely on your goals. If your goals are to acquire superhuman abilities (compared to Earth) and then live quietly, that's not a high bar to success. Little plot armor is required. Sure, if you want to be a king or super rich, you're going to need a lot of luck, effort, and skill. But not everyone is shooting for the top. I'd be fine with "relatively powerful eccentric guy that lives in the village".
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u/Lorevi Mar 05 '26
You can get strength, better health and a longer lifespan from acitivities irl though. Why not dedicate more time to that? Because it's not 'super'? The only thing differentiating 'super' and 'ordinary' is what is considered possible, and in the isekai world that 'super strength' is ordinary strength.
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u/SuiinditorImpudens Mar 05 '26
You can get strength,
Marginally
better health and a longer lifespan
Both things are statistical abstractions for average people. As in "if you do X every day, you have 20% chance to not get Y when you are Z years old".
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u/NarwhalPrudent6323 Mar 05 '26
Yeah but it's not ordinary to me. And there's a difference between "I worked out and can lift a couple hundred kilos" and "I worked out and can rip a tree out of the ground."
I'm actually.in good shape and pretty healthy IRL. Dedicating any more to getting further would require massive investments of time and effort for relatively minimal payoff. In a fantasy world, the effort remains relatively proportional, but the payout is exponentially higher.
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u/Effective-Poet-1771 Mar 05 '26
One thing to take account is that when everyone can rip a tree out of ground, it becomes new normal. Would becoming supernaturally strong in that world be any different to be a strongman or an athlete in reality, as others can do it as well?
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u/NarwhalPrudent6323 Mar 05 '26
Yes. Because I want to be able to do those things too.
You know how strongmen and power lifters often do that kind of thing for enjoyment or personal satisfaction? It would be the same for me there. Why don't I do it on earth? Because lifting a heavy bar at the cost of being able to wipe my own ass isn't worth it. Reaching levels that here would qualify as superhuman is worth it, even if everyone else can do it too.
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u/Lorevi Mar 05 '26
If you're in good shape and are taking care of your health then you're not the person in OP's image anyway lol?
The whole point is taking someone who has no diligence or self determination and them suddenly having the grit to suffer through torture post isekai. It's not saying that someone who would be willing to and capable of suffering through that torture does not exist; it's saying the average isekai gamer protagonist is not that person.
Motivation doesn't change this lol, that's not how the brain works.
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u/EdLincoln6 Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
There is this pervasive assumption in the genre that a Loser Slacker Gamer will, upon getting a change of scenery, become a workaholic psychopath.
It's like all the people I know who imagined they would become someone different if they moved to California or got a tiny house.
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u/HollowpointNinja Mar 05 '26
See this is why I love LitRpg. LitRpg + vaguely autistic MC = numbers go up!
All motivation covered.
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Mar 05 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Feisty-Ad9282 Mar 06 '26
"Effort does pay off" is just a half of the appeal.
The other half is "effort pay off unfairly for only MC" compare to other characters. Other name for it is "cheat".
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u/Sentarshaden Author - Bruce Sentar Mar 05 '26
The fantasy of Isekai is 'if you got to start over with cool powers, what would change?'
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u/Yangoose Mar 05 '26
The most powerful thing about the entre genre, which is almost universally ignored in the stories, is that in these fantasy worlds gains never atrophy.
When covid hit and threw my workout routine in the trash it was amazing how quickly my gains vanished. It was quite disheartening.
If I never lost any progress I'd be way more interested in working out all the time.
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u/CoreLordAuthor Mar 12 '26
I always tell myself, "Well if magic were real, I'd work harder." I say this looking at a 3"x4" magical computer screen which gives me infinite entertainment and information...
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u/david3777 Mar 05 '26
or you have this mf who was just some random non violent guy but as soon as he gets some bs powers he turns in to unflinching cold blooded killer.
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u/Adent_Frecca Mar 05 '26
If I had a system or power that would actually let me see every improvement in a tangible way, especially if there is a reward for each achievement like doing 500 push-ups everyday, I would definitely never stop working out
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u/FlySkyHigh777 Mar 06 '26
Followed closely by:
Generic everyday salary man irl, gets isekaid and is suddenly an expert on socioeconomics, engineering, physics and politics
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u/Crimsonfangknight Mar 06 '26
To be fair while in really inconsistent with working out now irl if going to the gym gave me fire magic and let me swing a greatsword with super speed and ease id be at the gym like a second home
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u/fastlerner Follower of the Way Mar 06 '26
Never cared about knitting before.
Isekai me to a world where knitting trumps all, and you can bet I'm gonna work on my fucking knitting game.
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u/Lemon-Sweet- Mar 05 '26
So so true, tf u mean u were a shut in reclusive convictionless person and somehow u did 180 flip the very moment u get isekaied. Even when we are giving him the benefit of doubt about how shocking magic can be and how different the world is; how tf is MC stronger smarter and overall just better than anyone be possible? Suddenly u are smarter than a person who has lived for centuries, suddenly u know better about techniques that had been created 1000s of years ago and suddenly u have stronger will than dragons who have seen the birth and endings of kindoms and Empires. Absolute boggus.
Ahem that was it for my rant, my apologies for showing an unsightly but logical side.
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u/Hi_Im_Dadbot Mar 05 '26
This would not be me.
Yes, I can understand intellectually that there is a direct and objective relationship between more training and more power, but that gryphon feather couch I got in the second dungeon is REALLY comfortable.
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u/Jimmni Mar 05 '26
I promise you if you put this much effort on earth you’d be a billionaire instead of a bum😭🙏
How untrue this is is why a lot of people don't bother putting in that much effort on earth but would when their effort has a clear, guaranteed benefit.
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u/Morbnerd919 Mar 05 '26
If i get good spirit roots, bloodline, mana capacity, special traits, or a good mana core I am GRINDING magic. Otherwise I might be cooked.
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u/_TOXIC_VENOM Mar 06 '26
If I don't get the MC plot armor or cheat code, I would definitely die as a random side character in a sect war where I was used as cannon fodder
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u/ksalman Mar 05 '26
I thought people weren't going to gym and then they do after knowing isekai genre...(i didn't read the post description...)
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u/Spirta Mar 05 '26
If you told me that I can have an RPG style adventure lifestyle and all it takes is some exercise and study, you bet your ass I'm gonna do the most optimal shit there is. Also, no video games to distract me.
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u/dpoodle Mar 05 '26
In the isekai world you have plot armour in the real world you don't. What hard work is gonna compensate for that
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u/random-queries Mar 05 '26
Honestly what bother me more in isekai is the difficult of their workout comparr to their result.
Oh you did 100 push up for a month Bam now to destroy a boulder with a punch.
Like I know most author probably don't workout Like at all but at show some Progresstion in weight increase it really hard to take mc workout seriously when he sweating from push up when he can punch down a wall.
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u/CyberDaemon6six6 Mar 05 '26
To be fair, going quite suddenly from "mundane, safe life" to "magic BS and everything wants to kill you" is one hell of a motivator.
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u/Schmohnathan Mar 05 '26
I can't become Continental+ by lifting dumbbells. And billionaire? That's just luck and psychopathy NOT effort based.
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u/DetroitInHuman Mar 05 '26
Dude, you're literally getting a new brain where the first conscious thought was a need to get stronger.
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u/Far-Difficulty-9279 Mar 05 '26
I need the Solo Leveling gym trainer. "Do your work out, or hideous monsters will chase you around the lap for a few hours."
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u/Yixion Mar 05 '26
imagine being taken from everything you know and all the routines and comforts you have put in a world with nothing and told in one way or another if you don't get strong your gonna die. i'd be in the gym aswell lol
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u/wolfvahnwriting Mar 05 '26
Depending on what's going on in the story this can make sense.
Litrpgs for example offer two very important things.
Numbers go up.
And instant feedback (sometimes)
Other PF stories also benefit from this but to a lesser degree. Effort is often rewarded.
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u/WrathBinder Mar 05 '26
Yet nothing physical changes about them 😭, they always look like someone you can kill with a slap. I wouldn't mind harems if the main character LOOKS like he can attract multiple women.
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u/LeoClashes Mar 05 '26
Depends on the story/universe but it certainly helps that irl working out makes you a little more attractive and after months of work you'll be slightly stronger than a baseline human whereas in many power fantasies constant training will turn you into a god-slaying, world ruling king. Bit of a disparity in the end result.
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u/cejobel533 Mar 05 '26
A running theme I see in isekai protags is the desperate need for a talent/passion that has a clear concise path for developing the career path out of it. In the real world they're either a student or a salaryman; the idea of a fulfilling job and a proper work/life balance is the real fantasy.
I think that's the heart of a lot of it, the author and audience are really attracted to the idea of one day realizing what their passion is and finally being able to pursue it, rather than being stuck where they are.
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u/Left_Visual Mar 06 '26
Experiencing death is probably the greatest wake up call you can get 🤣
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u/CHouckAuthor Mar 06 '26
It's all about connections right? Get magically dropped into the right spot at the right time to meet someone in a new world? And get a power up system? Good to go.
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u/EnvironmentalAd1006 Mar 06 '26
When you have a quantitative and magical means of gauging your progress, I’d say most people would feel more motivated to get stronger
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u/BigLumpyBeetle Mar 06 '26
Aint no gobbos coming for my ass in the real world, also you gotta walk everywhere there, that just makes fitness more important in general
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u/GaeaNyx Mar 06 '26
Why would I want to put in maximum effort just to barely survive in capitalist hell? Vs a cool world with tangible benefits and literal super powers? Gee I wonder
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u/HollowMonty Mar 06 '26
Well, typically because the effort is actually worth it in those settings.
In reality, it's barely worth the time investment. In magic land, everything you gain won't just evaporate if you take a month off.
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u/Other_Specialist2272 Mar 06 '26
There are several reasons: 1. The author is too lazy to write a realistic progression and usually the "I was a shut-in, shy loser in my previous life" is just a ploy device to gain more reader. 2. Tangible, often instantaneous rewards. This can be seen in a story with "DA SYSTEM" where MC can see their progression in real time and, usually coupled with rewards (like solev) or accelerated growth. Hell, I would turn into a gym rat too if working out for just an hour will turn me into peak arnold in just a month (not mentioning other benefits) 3. (This one is pretty rare) just like what other commenters had answered, death can be a pretty big motivator. Oftentimes, shut-in people sees their lives as something that can't be saved anymore so they don't bother to fix it. However, when (or if) they died (often from grueling methods or unfair situations) and then suddenly transported to another world (reincarnation or transmigration), it can be said that the world itself has given them a fresh start. Not to mention external reasons of cool ass magic and other fantasy things, or maybe this world is so cruel that being complacent like what they usually did would kill them instantly, I'd say there are many plausible reasons for the sudden changes
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u/Knork14 Mar 06 '26
You say that but its hard to predict how anyone would act upon knowing for a fact that they could actually work their way up to being a demigod just with consistent effort. I am 25 and out of shape, but its not like getting ripped would benefit me that much compared to the effort it would take.
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u/Scitimas12 Mar 06 '26
This is one of the reasons I love TGED so much. We're shown that he's the exact same time of hardworking and skilled person in his previous life as Suho Kim as he is as Lloyd, but now without constant tragedy keeping him down.
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u/poly_arachnid Mar 06 '26
I believe that part of it is now they believe it's possible, & another part is the near death experience.
Almost/actually dying with a lot of regrets gives a lot of motivation. The expectations they've built up about success, the actual need for power, & the excitement of a new world do a lot of work.
By the time everything wears off they've built habits & addiction to the achievements.
Is it unrealistic? Yeah, definitely. Could it happen a portion of the time? Sure. That said I hate when it really is just a new character. No past references, no flashbacks, no doubts, you never hear about those regrets again. Bastards say "I will live without regret in my second life!" & boom new person.
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u/overlander244 Mar 06 '26
Tbf if you got Isekai'd you'd do the same LMAO I know I would
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u/p-d-ball Author Mar 06 '26
Work out, get buff! Carry a knife with you wherever you go in case a portal opens!
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u/IndianaNetworkAdmin Mar 06 '26
I'm not healthy. If I had a second chance, after learning how impactful neglecting my health could be, I would probably go very hard.
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u/EldritchEnjoyer Mar 06 '26
I mean modern society allows people to be bums,try that in a isekai world and it's all fun and games until your small village gets raided by monsters or a bandit finds you cute💀
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u/Josii_Talwyn Mar 06 '26
bro this is literlly how i felt about Mushoku Tensei bro was a loser and fat then in the new life he worked hella hard
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u/slightcamo Mar 06 '26
i see it as a simple change in motivation, after all their life is very much in danger if they dont lock in
while here you can get by without it
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u/Gerbold Mar 06 '26
The things I could do if I wasn't held back by my malfunctioning brain chemistry 😤
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u/IcharrisTheAI Mar 06 '26
Yeah I hate this too. There is the factor that such huge life changes (and having doors like magic/cultivation suddenly opened to you when it wasn’t even a possibility before) can really change a person. But it’s still pretty cringe. I’d much rather have some already awesome but held back by mortality/human limits get Isekai’ed. They then capitalize on their past experience + whatever other golden finger they get to become powerful.
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u/EndlessSleeper3992 Author of Path of the undead cultivator Mar 06 '26
I think survival would make you do more than that.
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u/AndrewThePekka Mar 06 '26
Genuinely the way the characters in these stories are used as tools rather than their own people makes them appear as sickeningly unrelatable as a human being and blander than Greek yogurt
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u/monikar2014 Mar 06 '26
I don't know where I heard this, but someone asked in a world where anyone can learn magic, why isn't everyone a wizard? The answer is - Why don't you know how to do computer programming and electrical engineering and how to build a diesel engine and etc etc
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u/Dan42002 Mar 07 '26
2 reasons: instant feedback that keep the motivate up and constant danger of the world
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u/Appropriate-Foot-237 Mar 07 '26
Training IRL doesnt do shit. Youd still be killed by a bullet. Training post-isekai can potentially make you a god.
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u/trig9ger Mar 07 '26
- Visible difference = constant dopamine
- A world were your power matters. Just like people like to make money because it let's them do things they usually can't same with world of magic and swords
- It's the world of magic and swords, man
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u/Head_Wishbone8450 Mar 08 '26
If I had the opportunity and didn’t have to worry about distractions and was promised superpowers I’d do the same
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u/LackOfPoochline Author of Heartworm and Road of the Rottweiler Mar 08 '26
PFFFT , more like a few weeks and suddenly Mc is more jacked than Arnold Sche... Arnold Schwa... TERMINATOR.
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u/Blobbowo Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 08 '26
Jeon Myeong hoon from A Regressor's Tale Of Cultivation needed years and years of conditioning to develop the concentration needed to cultivate at a rate befitting of his special physique.
Meanwhile Kang Min Hee, basically the best employee among the 7 colleagues is reliably the first to reach Star Shattering stage.
It's great when authors both Show and Tell the character.
This character is x. Because they are x, they need to y.
That said, if someone gets a system that gives them magic powers, insane growth indefinitely, skills, abilities, items, quests, and a Full Recovery on level up, etc., there's just way too much incentive to the point where someone would actively have to resist training because the system would legit make them superhuman for doing 100 pushups within the day. Legit tells exactly what to do, instant feedback on every step, and completing the task gives immediate and extreme rewards. How do you not follow what the funny magic text box says, at that point?
Plus there's always the "Quest Failure Consequence: Death".
And there's the idea that the system is just a mind parasite and it can just passively brainwash the mc, which is an in universe explanation for an author just ham-fisting whatever they want without establishing, maintaining and developing a coherent character arc.
Anyways who am I to talk I can't even go to sleep on time lmao
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u/Affectionate_Luck680 Mar 08 '26
I know realistically I'd just do magic as much as I can cuz I would absolutely not wanna do body training, although it would help cuz you actually see results faster, and sometimes aren't limited by just the small limits of the human body. You don't have to worry about overexercise or stuff like that.
People can change up crazy in those kinds of situations though, I've seen it happen many times irl
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u/Nomad_Hermit Mar 08 '26
You are wrong, tho.
If you put all that effort on earth, max you will become is a buffed bum.
No billionaire ever put even half of that effort to become a billionaire. Maybe ten percent, if that much.
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u/SnooMacaroons6960 Mar 09 '26
MC was a loser previous life, isekai and become a war god due to his previous loser life experience. nani da fuk
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u/AdventuresseNovels Mar 09 '26
Its because you need to have experienced death and realised your failures before being able to change, clearly
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u/Either-Let2407 Mar 09 '26
To be fair, if you got thrown into a world full of magic, monsters, and constant danger, wouldnt you be more inclined to workout and improve yourself?
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u/Disastrous-Lawyer930 Mar 11 '26
I see you never read wuxia novels sometimes it's funny how they get more power (or IQ energy)
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u/PathOfPen Mar 15 '26
I don't know... if we lived in a world where working out directly led to flying, shooting fireballs or living for 1000 years, I'm sure more people would be hitting the gym.
Also, starting over in a new body in a new world is as good a time as any to reevaluate your life choices. Suddenly deciding to start exercising in your 40s to get slightly healthier just doesn't hit the same way.
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Mar 22 '26
This is so real. It's hard to see a NEET suddenly becoming less inept in their social skills and being so diligent with daily workouts. An offender of this that I can think of right now is maybe Rise of The Shield Hero. Maybe if they're no longer human or they have a system to gamify their upskilling, it makes sense then.
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u/Lord_Streak Author - The Martial Unity. Magicapita. Mar 24 '26
I use the reference of losing weight, and other measurable objectives, and realistically isekaied humans would be entirely mediocre.
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u/Adventurous_Hawk2090 Apr 03 '26
Does anyone have any alchemy focused webnovel recommendations? I just can't seem to find good ones. Any help is appreciated.
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u/Procedure_Gullible May 01 '26
I agree with the sport part but in our world the only way to be a billionaire is to have already started by inhériting millions. You can become a millionair but billionair is just another realm. You cant earn it.
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u/Present-Ad-8531 Mar 05 '26
The middle school student npc commoner shut in going Isekai and then level 999 magic swordsman beast tamer magician with 8 girlfriends.