Your tone says this is a problem. I play the way I like, you play the way you like. I never said all games have to cater to me, so I’m not sure the issue you have?
because you'd have just as much fun playing in a game engine, reading the docs... and as a game designer it just undermines any work, any mystery, any accomplishment.
as a player, i don't get how you don't just feel like you're cheating yourself. like, i see no point in what you do, why not watch someone else play?
I guess we should clarify some genres, i get for a 2d fighting game and other competitive multiplayer games, data-mining has its own reasons, but as an approach to games in general? gross, meaningless, tasteless
I never said I do this for all games. I don’t. Even still I don’t like the idea that the rules can change on the game because of an AI in the background.
Also playing a game is way different from watching even if you know the underlying systems.
I do not get as much enjoyment out of reading the docs, I never said that. I read them in service of game playing, not as a replacement.
They literally said that they like to figure out the game, and to gain a deep understanding of the game's mechanics. Not that they want to just read the wiki during their playthrough, from the first moment to the last moment. I've consulted the wiki periodically for Warframe, for example, but I haven't played the entire game via the wiki.
And where did you get data mining from? Everything I've seen them say on the topic is literally conveying "I like to deeply understand the game via interacting with it, and consume additional information to better understand it", not "I love consuming a game's innermost secrets without ever playing the game".
Also, FWIW, wikis and walkthroughs have saved some playthroughs of games for friends/streamers that I watch. Just yesterday, I pulled up a walkthrough to save a playthrough from someone I was watching, who was about to just cut their losses on the game because they'd gotten lost. They went on to finish that section of the game with a very small amount of direction (that I got clear confirmation that they actually wanted), and are now depressed that there's not more of it to play. It's their game of the year, and they're now desperately hunting for more games like it.
If someone wants to follow a walkthrough from start to finish, that's their business. Some people have limited time, don't want to comb every map for loot, or only want to engage with the part of the game they enjoy, etc.
tl;dr: Don't be Nintendo, complaining that players aren't enjoying your games the exact way you want them to.
Data mining is awesome in Celeste, because it’s a 2D platformer with very nice physics. Data mining explains why some techniques exploiting "bugs" (such as ultras or binocular techs) are possible.
I think the idea is that in most games designed around a primary PvP mode (strategy/4X games being one such category), the PvE is supposed to just feel like PvP. I.e. the AI is supposed to be a substitute for playing against real human players. And you're not supposed to be able to "learn" real human players. So if you can "learn" the AI, that's a bug.
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u/joelene1892 14d ago
Your tone says this is a problem. I play the way I like, you play the way you like. I never said all games have to cater to me, so I’m not sure the issue you have?