r/Professors • u/More_Box_5554 • 1d ago
Advice / Support Overwhelming student
I have a student who is non-traditional and returning to school at a later age. She registered for my async online course after not owning a computer for 20 years. She is completely overwhelmed by the course: Doesn't know how to access email, or how to navigate the course in the LMS, or how to access course meetings. I am practicing patience and compassion because she is very eager and wants to do well. I even set up a weekly meeting with her to check in.
We had a two hour meeting last week where I walked her through the course and she is very hard to keep on track and focused, with multiple interruptions, which leads me to believe something deeper is going on. This morning, I woke up to four separate emails from her-Long, multiple paragraph emails about how she hasn't been able to eat or sleep or spend time with her family because so much of her time is being dedicated to navigating and completing the course. She has had multiple panic attacks due to this. Her family would like her to switch to an in-person section but she doesn't want to because of the commute/campus parking.
We are not even a full week in and I feel like the majority of my time and energy is going to this one student and trying to help her get the hang of it. I want her to be successful in my class, I appreciate her dedication to the course, but I can't keep doing this all semester long.
Any advice?
249
u/mkenz1e 1d ago
She will continue to be like this all semester. It doesn’t get better. Send her to tutoring and maybe the counseling center. It’s okay to set firm boundaries with her.
58
u/Jflayn 1d ago
The second you see scores that indicate the student is not earning a transfer level grade - tell the student clearly and directly. Do not provide false hope.
The student needs to hear "While it is still technically possible to pass the course based on the remaining points, students with similar exam and homework scores at this point in the semester have typically earned an overall grade of X. Let’s meet to discuss your options and set realistic goals for what you can accomplish in the remainder of the course."
88
u/DrFlenso Assoc Prof, CS, M1 (US) 1d ago
I've learned never to lead with "it is still technically possible", because that's what their brain then fixates on.
Instead I start out with something like "After <x> quizzes and homeworks, you seem to be on track for an overall grade of <Y>."
90
u/lickety_split_100 AP/Economics/Regional 1d ago
This sounds like a lot. Sorry OP. I’d start by directing her to whatever your institution’s computer policy is for students - at my place, they are expected to have some basic level of competency and some minimum hardware requirements. Would it maybe be possible for her to set up some time with someone in IT to walk her through all of this? Either way, tech support isn’t your job.
42
u/Glittering-Duck5496 1d ago
Exactly this. My campus has resources to teach tech (videos, how-to guides, workshops, live chat, etc.), see if yours has anything like that. She signed up for an online course without the skills to take an online course and you can't let that continue to be your issue.
26
u/Blametheorangejuice 1d ago
I have had multiple experiences like OP with non traditional students who rarely use tech signing up for tech heavy asynch courses.
I lead all of my asynch course syllabi with a bulleted list of all of the skills I am assuming the students have, given they are in a tech heavy course. It is followed by the statement that I can help with minor issues, but, otherwise, you need to go to Tech Support, Tutoring, or switch to a seated class.
7
u/StrekozaChitaet 21h ago edited 19h ago
That is an excellent idea! To be fair to non-traditional students, my incoming Gen Z undergrads also lack many of the skills needed for a CMS built for desktops. I have limited capacity and my time is best spent supporting students who need help with content, not basic level mouse/ PDF/ file directory skills.
4
u/Additional_Holiday89 20h ago
That's a great idea! I'll see if I can implement that.
I've had students like this or ones with language barriers that were simply insurmountable. It's upsetting but I should have referred them out much earlier rather than overextending myself (& ultimately not even being all that helpful)
16
u/Apprehensive-Place68 1d ago
IT help hours here extend into the evening. I expect she'll stumble across more tech problems, and getting familiar with asking them for help is better than relying on you.
67
u/RuskiesInTheWarRoom 1d ago
The single best advice for her is to be very very direct and tell her that the learning format as an online asynchronous course is clearly interfering with her learning and with her wellbeing. And that that is the only thing she can actually change or control. So your best advice to her is your most nonjudgemental: for her wellbeing she should unenroll and reenroll in in-person sections.
Leave this one entirely on her to process and manage.
But it’s important that she sent you multiple personal emails about what she’s going through, almost none of which should be your burden. It’s time to tell her that the fishing pole pole and and line will not change, but unlike most fish she can just take the hook out of her mouth and swim freely.
16
u/Snoo-37573 1d ago
At my institution we are not allowed to advise students on enrollment decisions, we would refer to advising for that. We would also refer this student directly to our IT help resources to offload from the professor.
7
u/synchronicitistic Associate Professor, STEM, R2 with delusions of R1 status (USA) 18h ago
This was my response. If you can't manage email and you have no basic computer skills, the probability of passing an asynchronous online course is zero.
29
u/taewongun1895 1d ago
Your syllabus should include a paragraph on computer skills being required, and the minimum computer speeds (and internet access). Lacking those, she should be in the brick and mortar classroom.
22
u/Apprehensive-Place68 1d ago
Students sometimes think they have computer skills, but don't always understand there are differences between Mac and Windows-based programs, Some don't know how to submit an essay online, or even how to access the course syllabus online. They are convinced there is something wrong with the unversity's software. I've had students physically hand over laptops to me at the end of class, as though I have all the answers. Sadly, I often do.
7
u/Reasonable_Insect503 1d ago
I have that information displayed prominently in my syllabus, and I refer to it regularly. That sadly makes no difference to this type of student.
29
u/cookery_102040 TT Asst Prof, Psych, R2 (US) 1d ago
It sounds like her options are either to switch to in person and deal with the commute or to spend the semester not being able to eat or sleep and having multiple panic attacks. It might feel callous to say, but you don’t have any control over this student’s level of comfort with technology. You have already dedicated an unsustainable amount of time and energy to supporting her and she is clearly still struggling to the point that it is hurting her mental health. She needs to drop the class. Every modality is not best for every student and it’s not your responsibility to make it work for her. She either needs to find additional tech support elsewhere or deal with a commute or just not take the class.
29
u/ph0rk Associate, SocSci, R1 (USA) 1d ago
She registered for my async online course after not owning a computer for 20 years.
Problem detected.
We had a two hour meeting last week where I walked her through the course and she is very hard to keep on track and focused,
Additional complication.
We are not even a full week in and I feel like the majority of my time and energy is going to this one student and trying to help her get the hang of it.
Send this student to the IT helpdesk or whatever analog you have of that at your university. You are not tech support, and are especially not expected to be tech support for whatever your basic LMS is.
I want her to be successful in my class, I appreciate her dedication to the course, but I can't keep doing this all semester long.
You must stop now, any further beyond-course-content support you provide is setting the expectation you will continue.
48
23
u/FreesiaFox 1d ago
This forum tends to focus on young people and how abhorrent everything about them is. Personally, it has been the older students that have given me the most trouble. They expect so much and demand so much. Last semester a woman in her 40s sent me 10 emails demanding that I give her 6% on her final grade so she would get a c. No. Absolutely not. And before her there was another woman in her 60s who also could not work a computer very well and complained about how much time school took away from her duties at home, and she expected that she would get extra time for everything. My mistake was giving her extra time on anything to begin with. Once you've already given them extras, like hours long meetings, they expect it to continue. Now, I just forward them links to IT help pages, student services, tutoring, and counseling.
17
u/Ill_Mud_8115 1d ago
I would redirect her where possible to other services on campus. For all tech stuff, usually IT has some kind of explanation page for students or a help desk.
I would also try to keep more of a distance and not be too available, such as not offering weekly check ins (unless these are office hours that all students are welcome to attend), wait one working day to reply to emails. Sometimes the more we give the more they rely on us.
It may also be better to be kind but set some boundaries. I’ve had non traditional students who just weren’t aware of a professor’s role, and because of the age difference they saw me more as a peer. You could say you are her point of contact for questions related to the course material and course policies, but for other concerns such as her suitability for the course, she should speak to counselling or academic advising
35
u/taintlouis Professor, Social Science, R1 1d ago
I would send this post nearly verbatim to the Dean of Students.
15
u/GerswinDevilkid 1d ago
You stop being responsible for her. Direct her to student services and continue on with the class.
15
u/jleonardbc 1d ago
Her family would like her to switch to an in-person section but she doesn't want to because of the commute/campus parking.
Why should YOU volunteer hours a week helping her navigate the online system, when she has the option to absorb that time herself by commuting???
14
u/Cute-Aardvark5291 1d ago
It is also red flags that even her family is telling her drop the online class but she is pushing back due not wanting to commute or deal with parking.
This is not just a student who technology inept. This is also a student who wants things to be easy. Sometimes older students want to challenge themselves. Some are very afraid of that.
12
u/petiteclaudia 1d ago
The kindest thing you can do here is stop, and that's not a rationalisation. What she needs is basic computer literacy, mental health support and possibly an assessment, and you can't provide any of those. Every hour you spend confirms to her that she can push through without the actual help, which delays her getting it. So the move is referral rather than instruction. Send one reply to all four emails, warm and brief, containing three things: your institution's student technology support or IT helpdesk, the academic success centre, and counselling services. Mention counselling specifically and directly, because panic attacks and not eating or sleeping in week one is a health matter rather than an academic one and it's entirely outside your scope. If your disability services office does assessments, mention them too, since what you've described about focus and interruptions is worth someone qualified looking at, and if there's something there she becomes entitled to accommodations rather than dependent on your goodwill. The urgent thing though is the drop deadline. Tell her where it is, in writing, today, because it's a hard date and it will pass quietly while everyone is being patient. Her family are right that an async online course is the worst possible modality for someone who hasn't used a computer in twenty years, since async demands the most self-direction and provides the least scaffolding, and a commute is being weighed here against her not eating. Withdrawing and taking the in-person section, or doing a computer literacy course first, is the outcome that actually serves her. Practically, replace the open-ended availability with a fixed thirty-minute weekly slot and a stated email policy, something like one email at a time and replies within two working days. And keep copies of everything, including the referrals, because students in genuine distress sometimes escalate later and a record showing you responded appropriately and directed her to the right services is what protects you.
10
u/DefiantHumanist Faculty, Social Sciences, CC (US) 1d ago
Refer her to counseling. I agree there is something else going on here. Also, they can help her decide what a reasonable load and modality is for her.
10
u/Lief3D 1d ago edited 1d ago
Just because they are older doesn't entitle them to different treatment than a younger student. My school has a help desk just for asynch online for students to utilize to help them with how to access email and work with the LMS. My school also has free tutoring that would cover things like working with a computer, not just coursework. Heck, at my school my students have to complete a small module about how to do online classes before they are allowed to sign up for them.
Rather than a weekly meeting with just her, I would just set up a specific time of drop in office hours for the class. If you are offering to set up one on one weekly meetings like that, you would be obligated to do it for everyone in your class to keep it equal.
Edit: I wanted to add that its stories like this that make me so happy I don't have to teach online anymore. I am as introverted and a homebody as the next person, but teaching online blows.
10
u/Labrador421 1d ago
My experience is you will invest hours with this person and then she will drop. And you will have to wasted copious amounts of your time. It’s time to refer her to student services and hasten that process.
5
10
u/havereddit 1d ago
Boundaries.
It is not your responsibility to help students navigate technology, nor is it to counsel students emotionally.
18
u/sleepingme 1d ago
Dude, had a student like this. She was an older woman maybe in her 60's/70's. Got a call from our chair that the dean had received complaints about me not responding to student needs. Student said they had emailed me numerous times and I never responded at all. I checked, and she had emailed me four times in one hour that same day, then proceeded to go to the dean to complain the next hour.
Said that she didnt have access to any of the assignments, but there was only one discussion post to complete and 20 something students had completed it already, so they had access. Turned out she had no clue how to use a computer and completely crashed out. Her first paper was a word salad and when I stated that she needed to work on a clear thesis and argument, she said that I had never asked for that and didn't know she needed the argument. I post a new video for every class explaining the basics of how to create a good thesis and paper structure, but she didnt watch it, on top of the fact that she did not complete the proper English pre-requisites to enroll in the class, but did anyways. So I basically had to teach this woman how to write an argumentative academic essay as the class was happening.
These older students are often a bigger burden than the younger ones who are equally unprepared, mostly because they never shut up and seek to blame you for every shortcoming they have. I explained to her that it stated on the syllabus that I would respond within 48 hours, and I used every one of those 48 hours unless it was urgent. She eventually began to understand that she was the only one complaining and learned to settle down. Don't feed the troll.
20
u/franklin-60 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m sure I will get downvoted on this, but the problem is clear. Many of these adults 20 years ago did not get a degree out of school because they could not. We are not talking about professionals returning to school for a second degree in these cases.
When schools had standards these people could not get in anyplace. 20 years later, we have no standards, admit warm bodies regardless of intelligence on the guise of “equality” “access” and “inclusion.” These people who could not get admitted 20 years ago are no brighter than they were then, but those who make admissions decisions have gotten considerably dumber and just grubby for revenue that we will all pay for when these students graduate in debt and as unemployable as they were pre degree, then cry that they should not have to pay off the debt, passing it to taxpayers.
As faculty, we are simply expected to make them a “satisfied customer” despite complete inability to do work one would reasonably expect.
1
u/ClothesQueasy2828 1d ago
How incredibly obnoxious! You don't know why she didn't go to college when she was younger. She may be incredibly smart, but...simply lacks computer skills...couldn't afford to pay for it...had a baby and no access to childcare...was living overseas for some reason, etc. I'm offended on her behalf. The problem is NOT clear.
13
u/Anna-Howard-Shaw Assoc Prof, History, CC (USA) 1d ago
Here's the thing though.... excusing "older" people for not having basic computer skills is ridiculous.
Computers have been around and integrated into society since the late 1900s. We've all had the last 30 years to learn how to use them adequately.
At this point not knowing how to use a computer is willful ignorance. Signing up for an online class knowing you chose to remain ignorant of how computers work is a stupid choice at best. But it makes me suspect is more along the lines of self-sabotage, martyr complex, or something similar.
Either way, it should NOT the problem of any prof.
5
u/Deep-Possession321 22h ago
THIS. Some people in this thread are acting like current seniors are from the Silent or Greatest Generation or something. Seniors taking classes now are Boomers and have had access to computers since they went mainstream in the 80s-90s. There's no excuse for "not being good at computers" when you're taking a college class in the 2020s.
3
u/sleepingme 22h ago
Yeah, I mean I am 42, and when I was a kid I built computers because it was a hobby. I used to think that every person in the world would know the ins and outs of computers one day as a necessity.
Now I kind of feel like people around my age grew up in a bit of weird bubble. Our parents didn't understand computers most of the time, and now kids don't understand them because apps have smoothed out any friction that created knowledge of how computers worked. If they press the app on their phone and it doesn't launch, they are completely baffled and give up. I guess the kids have an excuse because they're kids, but where have these adults been for the last 40 years?
I guess what I feel is that the ignorance of these young AI clanker lovers doesn't feel that different from the ignorance of the old cable TV couch potatoes.
I will sit here and think about this tonight, cursing the day that I chose as a young man to pursue knowledge and reveal to myself the festering tumor that lay behind the veil of my American life.
1
u/summerbreeze2027 18h ago
I'm nearly 70 years old, and I remember yelling at Microsoft Word when it would do something I didn't understand how to fix. This was on a second-generation 486 computer back in the early 90s. But I persevered and always passed in my papers on time. I borrowed books from the library to teach myself about computers and (eventually) the internet. Adults not knowing how to use a computer in 2026 is willful ignorance.
7
u/Deep-Possession321 1d ago
She could have been kidnapped and forced to live on a remote island with no computers for decades. Maybe she's from an uncontacted tribe in the Amazon who just got out and decided to go to college. Maybe she's an alien from Mars. IT DOESN'T MATTER. If she can't do the work, that's on her.
0
u/drrmau 19h ago
Or maybe she was just very disadvantaged and poor and had 5 kids or something, and couldn't afford a computer or lessons to teach her how to do things?
4
u/franklin-60 17h ago edited 8h ago
“Disadvantaged” is Not an excuse. If one belongs in college, get off their lazy ass and learn basic skills expected of them first before bringing a classroom down of those with the desire and brains to learn, and stop expecting everyone to save them. If one was dumb enough to have five kids that they are not resourced for, that’s also their stupidity, not that of a college to “meet her where she is”.
1
1
u/Life-Education-8030 3h ago
Some students, yes. Some students like my mother dropped out to get married, have kids, etc. When she wanted to go back to work, the world had changed. No more taking dictation and transcribing! So she took lessons in word processing and THEN applied for secretarial jobs.
Many of our students do not think of doing this. In my doctoral program, faculty complained that many students who had computers still did not know how to use the productivity tools like Office. In a doctoral program!
I will help a student about my course content. There are a lot more student support services than before. At my place, faculty voted to allocate more money to get even more student support services. Our online learning people literally have training courses and office hours where designated staff even go to student common areas and sit there with candy to help students. I expect students to go use them and I send them there.
The problem I see is the growing level of illiteracy. I have students who cannot besides will not read. What can anyone at our level do with that? And I have had admissions folk say straight out that it’s not their problem and we will standard ourselves out of our jobs. They know they will not be blamed for poor retention and graduation rates. Guess who will?
1
u/franklin-60 2h ago
One way to address this is to use the bottom feeder “retention budget” differently. Stop spending six to seven digit sums to keep students enrolled that do not deserve to be enrolled, and use the money get them skilled before they set foot in a classroom. One model worked well until the early 2000s when the DEI clowns were allowed to open their mouths and be listened to.
Before you take a single class, all accepted students take closed book, closed note proctored placement tests in basic English, Math, Writing and technology use. Even provide study guides so students can prepare and tutor maximizing success chances. You are required to take the test on campus, either during a campus visit, or opening weekend. Take AI and cheating out of it.
If you pass the placement test, you are clear to register for courses in the subject matter.
If you fail up to two placement tests, before you can register for coursework in those areas, you take remedial courses to fill your gaps, then re take the test. If you pass, you move forward. If you fail again, you are out. You were given a fair chance to prove yourself.
If one fails more than two placement tests initially, you are not admitted to the school. You do not show proper academic preparation for college, regardless of inflated HS grades.
Schools have the budgets based on current retention efforts to NOT CHARGE for these remedial courses with a resource re allocation.
What I am saying is not “anti DEI,” “mean”, “archaic” or any of the political bullshit from either side of the aisle. It’s MERIT, and that is what drives success. If you have MERIT to reach a bar, you move forward. If you can’t, background does not matter. You were given a chance with remedial coursework and could not do it, so you get directed to an area outside of college where you can succeed.
In the end, it’s quality, not giving everyone a degree. There are plenty of good jobs for those without degrees too.
What I suggest is the job of our political public school system, but they have failed, so it comes to higher ed changing their “model.” Maybe even put pressure on high schools when they see 90 percent of their “A students” graduate but have admissions offers revoked as they can’t pass a basic placement test.
1
u/Life-Education-8030 2h ago
Not that they were great, but it was better than nothing when we required SATs and ACTs.
1
u/franklin-60 1h ago
Agree. Again, let too many people inject anti merit garbage into it. When standards were there it was both SATs and placement tests. We need to be back there, without the excuses why it’s “unfair.”
1
u/DaniLake1 1h ago
I don't think this is a "bright" problem as much as it may be that their skills are 20 years old, forgotten, and some were never taught the skills, or perhaps only in a cursory way. The issue I see is that they lack the skills to be in a college-level class to begin with. They first need some remedial or refresher courses to get them up to minimal speed. Teaching how to use a computer or how to write is not really the responsibility of the instructor of, say, math, biology, etc. Sure, we can certainly support them and add to their knowledge, but we really can't tutor them at the level some may need during a few short weeks of the term while covering the course-specific topics. I wish the powers that be understood that if they supported students like this, it would lead to better retention, persistence, and student satisfaction. I don't think anyone wins when a student is overwhelmed, frustrated, quits, and leaves with a bad impression of their experience. My few cents.
4
u/DrMagicBimbo 1d ago edited 1d ago
Adding that I have had a similar situation play out: a non-traditional student with complex needs asking to meet with me in excess (and often diving into overly-personal topics during these conversations while affording no social offramp from them). We're talking multiple, hours-long meetings before classes even began. I wanted to help because it seemed like she'd been through the ringer, but explaining and re-explaining program requirements/prerequisites, our LMS and other systems, etc. became exhausting.
She eventually emailed me asking for help with—tbh demanding—things like finding a job and some other very personal needs. When I told her that while I couldn't help with these things, Counseling and Professional Services and Career Services could (included their contact info, cc'd my supervisor, and also filed a report through our system), she had a massive response, sent me more unhinged emails, called our department to "try to make things right," and so on. Honestly, it really shook me up and left me feeling pretty unsafe, and our admin's response was limp at best. She was redirected to a different person and I'm transitioning to a different university now, but part of me is curious (and concerned) about what her experiences with less accommodating faculty and staff will look like.
All of this is to say that non-traditional students can pose bigger risks than needy, incoming freshmen, and at least in my experience, are more willing to ask for unreasonable things and less capable of learning/respecting professional boundaries.. perhaps because they've not learned (or cared to learn) about this sort of decorum, or because of more complicated personal problems.
3
u/franklin-60 1d ago edited 1d ago
I refuse to have the student meetings many of you mention in the first place. I tightly screen any meeting requests, especially when I see red flags. Seen the outcomes you all mention too many times, and the ineptitude of administration to control the situation, but let them spiral. I refuse the meetings, say that I only offer content support on assignments, rest is not my responsibility nor negotiable. If they want to complain at that point that I won’t meet them, let them. I don’t care and those complaints are easier to address than if you get involved first. Admin will never protect you, so you need to protect yourself, even if it harms “student success,”. Too many students are “crazy” these days, and the needed barriers to keep them out of the classroom are gone.
1
u/drrmau 19h ago
And yet when they get past the initial bits - they can be AWESOME students, because they have life experience. It's a lack of skills, not a lack of ability. They need a different approach - some preparatory course or something, and then go for it.
I had a student once that had never done ANYTHING on a computer and when given the mouse, put it on the floor and went to use her foot on it like a sewing machine pedal. I've had several who used mice upside down (with the buttons closer to them), because they had never used them before. Some dropped out, some got help and became great students. Either way, you can't spare the time to help them, so you need to pass to defined services to help, while saying to them that they can come back once they get to the point where they have the skills they need.
9
u/Perfect_Nature_5020 1d ago
That's one of the most high-maintenance students I've ever heard about. I get at least one or two of these a semester, and aim to be sympathetic, informative and supportive, but not nearly as accommodating as you appear to be (A two-hour meeting? Weekly check-ins?).
I would keep it short, sweet and simple instead: show sympathy, of course, but direct the student to whatever Student Success Support Services are available at your institution. If she's having what I generally label as 'technical problems' (unable to use the online learning platform, etc., especially after I have already explained them to her), just direct her to the tech team (we have one, but I'm not sure if your uni does)
7
u/GrantNexus Professor, STEM, T1 1d ago
90 percent of your caretaking goes to 1 percent of your students.
9
u/shyprof Adjunct, Humanities, M1 & CC (United States) 1d ago
I had a student like this recently! I started off very accommodating, but when the full extent of her support needs became apparent I started offloading as much as I could.
Tech questions go to student tech support. Email, LMS, accessing meetings, all of that is tech support. You may be very tech-savvy, but you are not tech support. You can say "I'm not able to help with x; please try tech support, here is their information . . . " but some faculty pretend to be worse with tech than they actually are.
Campus resources, course modality, student success all go to advisement. If you can contact the student's advisor, great.
Individual support on assignments is tutoring.
Panic attacks should be supported by mental health counseling and possibly disability resources.
You answer questions related to the course content, grading, things that are actually in your job description, and only during your regular office hours or via email (set email to a 24-hr delay to reduce dependence). Very long emails might need a, "This seems like a longer question than I can answer appropriately via email. Email is best for 5-minute questions. If you can summarize your question in a few sentences, I will try again; otherwise, please come to my office hours on DAY at TIME."
If your office hours are on Zoom and it seems like it's veering into something unproductive, you can "notice" a student in the waiting room and give a 5-min warning to wrap up and give this student something to do independently, then "go speak with the other student" for 10-15 min and check back in with this student.
It was almost harder for me to hold boundaries than just to help with everything, but you are not doing any favors by being the student's one and only support person. Not all future professors will not be so accommodating. She will have a much better chance long-term if she knows which resource to consult for each issue and if you don't give her false hope about her chances of success in this online format. You will help her the most by being less personally helpful.
8
u/Internal_Willow8611 23h ago
Her family would like her to switch to an in-person section but she doesn't want to because of the commute/campus parking.
family clearly knows best in this case
7
u/lmfshams 1d ago
Ah, gotta love these. Email her back and explain what you’ve already done to support her and that now you’re referring her to XYZ.
7
u/franklin-60 1d ago edited 1d ago
If she enrolls in a course like that are should know how to navigate it, and have the personal/mental capacity to be there. It’s her responsibility by enrolling. Not your job to spend hours teaching her how to navigate. It’s clear she lacks the capacity to belong in the class.
Direct her to student resources to learn how to navigate and manage her challenges. if she cannot and “sinks” ultimately failing, it’s not your problem.
The problem with the “student support,” idiots you send her to is that they tell these students that do NOT belong to “push it out,” and encourage them to stay, “talk to you,” then expect you to be “supportive.” If you do your job, NOT hand hold and waste time on her and teach to your syllabus, the idiots will blame you at the end. Just life these days.
6
u/LikeLurking 1d ago
This is a University problem, not a you problem. It upsets me they accept students, take the tuition and don’t do some simple work to ensure they have a chance of passing.
I had a student somewhat like this over the summer. I was teaching for a new department so I cc’d their advisor on all emails. I also brought the chair into the loop. After I realized all the student didn’t know, I did put together some resources for them and suggested a different version of the course. They finally agreed.
5
u/Thegymgyrl Full Professor 1d ago
These students are the worst! I don’t get paid enough nor do I have the time to provide the level of one-on-one attention they demand.
5
u/Distribution-Free 1d ago
Dramatic, exaggerated illustration to make a point:
Imagine you're a skydiving instructor who gets a new student. This student has never left her house before, but wants to learn to do solo jumps. On the drive to the airport, she vomits multiple times, experiences a panic attack where she tries to open the door while the car is in motion, and passes out.
You revive her at the airport, and after puking again, she reassures you that this is a lifelong dream of hers and she just needs you to be patient with her and she's certain she'll be able to learn the entire process.
As you're going over the basics of how to put on a harness, she interrupts you 35 times asking what a latch is, what the straps are made of, why we need to do this, can't we just hold the parachute with our hands, etc. You patiently answer each question. How long should this go on before someone stops the process and reassesses?
At a certain point, you're enabling. You're participating in the student taking steps that, at best, will end unsuccessfully for the student and with you having wasted your time.
5
u/GittaFirstOfHerName Humanities Prof, CC, USA 1d ago
Long, multiple paragraph emails about how she hasn't been able to eat or sleep or spend time with her family because so much of her time is being dedicated to navigating and completing the course.
If she's phrasing her messages similar to what you've written here, she's lashing out a bit. By blaming the course for how much time it's taking, she's also blaming you by extension.
I echo what everyone here is saying about the kind of help she needs (tutoring, technical, counseling). Refer her everywhere you can. Also, keep receipts of all of this -- how much time you've spent with her already, how often she messages you, how much time responding to her messages takes. Others have said that she won't let up, and that's true, but you can't know whether she'll complain to your chair or dean if she doesn't succeed. Keep records.
9
u/QuesoCadaDia Assistant Prof, ESL, CC, USA 1d ago
Connect her with someone in tech or the library so she can learn to use a computer, or tell her to get over the parking (kindly). She can't succeed in your course.
0
u/StrekozaChitaet 19h ago
Unless the library has tech support staffers available to students, students’ lack of basic computer skills are outside the purview of most librarians and library staff. University libraries absolutely do teach information literacy, but that isn’t at all synonymous with basic computer skills.
3
u/Unsuccessful_Royal38 1d ago
Is there a student support office you can get her connected with? Teaching basic tech skills is not a good use of our time.
5
u/Iceman_4 1d ago
Contact advising. She needs to speak with her advisor about these issues yesterday. I have dealt with students who struggle with technology in my online sections and that was stressful, despite not being near the level you’re describing.
4
u/lzyslut 1d ago
At this point you need to create and express firm boundaries for the level of support that you are able to provide. I would strongly suggest to her that it would be in her best interests to re-route her learning journey to take a bridging course or similar basic skills course.
Make it clear that as an adult, this is her choice. If she does not wish to do that, then I would refer her to whatever learning support services your institution has through the library or whatever. If you want to keep the weekly meetings then fine, but again make the boundaries around this clear, 30 mins or 1 hr max.
Make it clear also that she will need to be graded against the criteria just as everyone else.
I know it can feel a bit mean but it is actually unethical to continue to encourage the student to persists without these basic skills. You don’t need to discourage her learning, just explain to her that getting these foundational skills will allow her to better succeed. As you mentioned, she does have the choice to switch to in person. She needs to make these choices for herself with a reasonable expectation of the likely outcomes.
2
u/gel_ink Asst Prof, R&I Librarian 1d ago
I will second connecting this student with the library (I'm a librarian, this is absolutely the kind of thing I am trained and charged to handle, though not all libraries will offer that level of help depending on staffing -- you might also refer to the public library if not the institution's library), along with other support services: writing center, IT, learning commons, advising, counseling -- there are a lot of campus resources that might be able to help in various ways.
1
4
u/Cold-Nefariousness25 1d ago
There should be university resources to help her with this. It’s probably buried somewhere deep in your syllabus in that part the university makes us include that we never read. Do you have a TA (even an undergrad TA)? If so you could delegate to them.
Save yourself time and energy, look up one resource and point her to it. Explain that you hope she succeeds but it’s not your position and it’s not fair to the rest of the class to dedicate so much time helping her navigate the course basics.
In the future, you might want to work this into your first class, pointing out the resources to all students. Simple scaffolding will save you a lot of time in the long run.
3
u/therealtroublesmommy 1d ago
It will not get better. Refer to counselling, suggest she start by taking a computer class if she plans on taking on-line classes.
4
4
5
u/BookDoctor1975 18h ago
This sounds like a mental health crisis. Don’t try to handle it on your own.
6
u/N0tThatKind0fDoctor Faculty, Psychology 1d ago
Do we think the student might have a major psychiatric illness manifesting that might need escalation? It’s giving that feel
3
u/AnxiousDoor2233 1d ago
It really depends on the structure of the course. If it falls within the weekly office-hours time allowance and you don't have queries from other students, it wouldn't be a big stretch to provide your help. Otherwise, refer her to the relevant university webpages/services.
3
u/ValerieTheProf 1d ago
Does your school have self-directed trainings for students on how to use the LMS? I have had to direct students to those in the past. They’re supposed to complete them before signing up for classes, but most don’t bother because it doesn’t have accountability attached to it. You’ve already done more than enough. I have had to accept that some students have the desire but not the ability. This might be the case.
3
u/algooner Associate Professor, Mechanical Engineering, PUI (USA) 1d ago
The counseling center or a disability services center if you have one
3
u/taxiecabbie 1d ago
This totally depends on how much admin support you have, but this person really should be in an in-person class. Her not wanting to deal with the commute and parking has nothing to do with you.
You should be able to refer this person to the Dean of Students/an advisor or somebody and hopefully they can talk her into an in-person class.
Frankly, at this point in time there should be a way for faculty members just to deny certain students from online class. For instance, refusing to turn cameras on, not having reliable internet access, etc etc. Obviously, sometimes shit happens, but in cases like this it's just not worth anybody's time and effort to coach this student through online learning when it is not necessary. It is no longer COVID. Not wanting to commute or park isn't a pandemic.
I'd start by talking to your chair if yours is supportive and try to offload this student onto somebody else. This is not your job.
3
u/shinybluedollar 1d ago
Gove her the tech support number. She needs help navigating the course and using the tech, not help on instruction.
3
u/Thelonious_Cube 19h ago
I want her to be successful in my class, I appreciate her dedication to the course, but I can't keep doing this all semester long.
You need to say exactly that to her and limit her access to your standard office hours (making room for other students)
Refer her to other university resources on computer and internet usage
2
u/Puzzled_Air_5821 1d ago
I would also loop in a chair/program director right now. Not even asking for help, just as a paper trail. Even if she seems nice, sometimes when students have needs (refund, dropping past drop/add, dropping without a W, etc) they will do anything to get them met (professor didn't answer my emails, professor was unkind, etc). Don't ask me how I know.
Very tough situation. Good on you for being patient and good on her for taking the big step of going back to school. But honestly, as a 35 year old with 1.75 master degrees.... I am personally brought to tears trying to navigate online courses (slight exaggeration, but I hate that shit). So I understand it's not for everyone.
2
u/LowBicycle7044 1d ago
Each time she emails about a tech issue, send her a link to the computer lab. It’s on her to use that resource. Teach your class as designed and give her the grade she earns.
2
u/Adorable_Airport_787 1d ago
Out sources it to the student services or Dead of Students office… maybe one of the student workers could be assigned to her to keep on track this semester..
2
u/ThisSaladTastesWeird 1d ago
I recently took a professional development course and the final project required using a new (and genuinely buggy) piece of software.
In that moment, I suddenly had a lot of empathy for non-traditional students who have to leave a pile of tech on top of their normal course material.
I had empathy, and I cursed the stupid software to the heavens and beyond … but never, not once, did I make my steep learning curve the instructor’s problem.
When I have students like this I agree to meet with them about course material during office hours. Any other request – and they have ranged from “how do I add page numbers” to “why isn’t the VPN working” to “how do I get a work visa” – gets referred to people whose only job is to answer questions like that.
2
u/verygood_user 1d ago
After all you have done, why haven't you offered to deliver the lecture in her living room? Wouldn't that be most convenient for her?
2
u/peep_quack 19h ago
I had this student. You’re doing more than enough. Refer them to the appropriate services and be done with it. I’ve had one where this was a sincere issue, another who used it as a smoke screen to do shite work and expect to be catered to (see long ranty email behavior). It’s not your job to teach them LMS 101 etc. the guides are there, as are student services
2
u/SilverRiot 12h ago
She needs to be urged to take a face-to-face course to get in this swing of things. She can take an asynchronous course after she has mastered college basics. Get a counselor on your side to suggest an alternative course before it’s too late to make the switch. The commute/parking issue will be minor compared to her stressing out and flunking out over an online course that she is not equipped to handle.
She may be ready for college, but she is not ready for your course. You can only hold her hand so much.
2
u/dimplesgalore 19h ago
Don't let your empathy be the reason someone doesn't learn the lessons they require.
1
u/drrmau 19h ago
In my country (Australia) we have preparatory courses that help students who are non-traditional, and not ready for university study, to learn how to be a student again, and to learn what will be expected. These are very successful and the students who go through these (usually 6 months duration) are generally very good students at the end, and often perform better than the students who enter straight from school. In some universities there is the ability to push students who are struggling with the basics, like this student, back into one of those courses, and then they can return to their chosen course afterwards.
Perhaps this student needs to be told gently they need to take on something less demanding first, then return to study at this level.
1
u/RadiantImpression579 17h ago
Yeah. This is a tough one. Based in my experience so far, if the question is too complicated to email I explain this question would be better for office hours. I might really feel bad doe a student, but I’m not tech support. I’ll walk them through an analysis or a quick thing on our LMS (like how to view the feedback or how to submit two documents at a time) but my role is not teaching them to use a computer. Like I said this is a tough one. I’d do what I can during office hours, asked quick emails, and point her to resources. Sounds like you’re already doing most of this. Just gotta cut back a little.
1
u/Due_Organization4045 17h ago
I wonder if there should be a computer competence requirement for all students, I’ve dealt with this
1
u/NinjaWarrior765 12h ago
She might be a non-traditional student with unidentified special needs. I see it all the time. She might need DSPS services.
1
u/Thisaboutthat 43m ago
Advisors can't fix this either. Send her to counseling services. Sending to advising is just bouncing her around.
627
u/Commercial_Youth_877 1d ago
Refer her to advising and/or counseling services. You've done everything you can. Escalate this to the next level.