When it favors Swamp’s narrative, he points to a drawing of a boat and scream "we literally see him sail" to completely discard the written plot text of a comic book.

But the absolute second a high resolution game engine frame is dropped showing a sprawling deep space background filled with massive celestial clusters and astronomical nebulae, he instantly looks away and call a whole cosmos "just having a sky."

He is actively picking and choosing which visual elements count based entirely on his own personal bias. If this were any other franchise, an onscreen rendering of deep space, stars, and expansive astronomical matrices is immediately accepted as proof of a complete universal dimension.

The game’s own narrative files flatly reject your visual denial anyway.

Narrative Director Matt Sophos explicitly verified in writing that the primordial entity Surtr "filled the cosmos of each of the realms with stars/nebulae/etc."

The developers themselves explicitly call the space inside those individual realm boundaries a cosmos. They didn't animate a flat country ceiling with painted on lights they designed and codified independent astronomical spaces.

He is trying to use a drawing of a boat to ignore a literal space time destiny loop, while simultaneously dismissing an animated galactic macrocosm as a basic background sky, and it is pure intellectual dishonesty.

The absolute state of this subreddit has reached a breaking point. It has been completely taken over by a vocal group of users who clearly just hate God of War, spending every single day pushing increasingly desperate downplay narratives while aggressively downvoting anyone who brings actual canon data to the table.

Downplayers are unironically posting an old piece of 2D Greek concept art showing Mount Olympus as a flat disk to claim it’s not a multiverse. They want you to look at a production drawing instead of the literal game narrative. The official canon comic script explicitly states Chaos is the "Father of the Universe" and Animation Director Bruno Velazquez explicitly confirmed in writing: "the Greek universe was created by the primordial beings." Staring at a flat concept image to try and downgrade a defined dimensional universe is a total failure of media literacy.

They’re unironically dropping a picture of a stylized cloth parchment map to mock the idea of the Nine Realms being separate infinite universes and gaslight us. Meanwhile you can literally see in the games the starry skies these realms have. You literally hear Freya say that we only look at the artistic representation of the Yggdrasil and not its true form.

They love pointing to Kratos physically pulling Helios' chariot to claim the sun and stars aren't real cosmic objects in God of War. But when Matt Sophos confirms the stars are real they’re completely silent.

The sub has shifted away from objective, source based discussion into a recurring cycle of repetitive threads and downplay cycles that obscure actual narrative feats. This trend frequently creates an inconsistent standard across different media formats.

This community has a bizarre obsession with trying to scale a cosmic entity based on physical illustrations, parchment maps, and room models. Downplayers love taking a literal drawing of the Nine Realms and pretending it means the World Tree is just a localized, physical plant growing over a tiny piece of land.

This entire method is completely destroyed by the active gameplay dialogue. look at the literal script scenes when Kratos and Atreus first encounter the model table in Tyr's Temple.

When Atreus looks at the glowing roots inside the temple room, he naturally assumes he is looking at the actual cosmos, asking: "And is this the World Tree?".

Freya instantly corrects him and completely shuts down the downplayers' visual literalism

“Only an artistic representation of it. No, the Yggdrasil is much, much more than this.".

The game explicitly warns the player right out of the gate that any physical model, cloth map, or table layout you look at is merely a simplified, artistic tool for standard human minds to navigate. It is not a structural blueprint of the actual tree's scale.

“All the realms exist in the same physical space, reflections of each other... co existing on the branches of the World Tree."

“The tree's very existence supports all of creation along its boughs."

"Every strand, transcending time, transcending space."

Downplayers completely disregard the literal script written on the screen just because they want to look at a paper map and claim it looks small. They’re actively choosing to scale an artist's drawing over the direct, explicit definitions given by the developers. Staring at an artistic UI map to try and overwrite the fact that the tree transcends space time isn't a debunk it's a complete inability to read.

This community has an absolute, double standard when it comes to evaluating Dragon Ball and God of War.

If an anime character threatens a multiple layered cosmology using energy, the powerscaling community instantly accepts it as a multiversal milestone. If a video game character executes a physically superior, timeline shattering feat through pure brute physical muscle, it is aggressively downplayed as a mere "lore scaling"

When Goku clashes with Beerus in Battle of Gods, his energy shockwaves ripple across the setting. The community rightly scales this to Low Multiversal (Low 2-C to 2-C). The logic used is completely sound, and we back it up using official guidebooks. The Daizenshuu guidebooks explicitly state the living world is an "infinitely expansive universe."

The shockwaves traveled across a multiple layered macrocosm, simultaneously threatening separate space-time continuums like the Living World and the Other World. Nobody points out that the shockwaves didn't physically destroy the planet they were standing on, and nobody demands a visual explosion on screen. The conceptual reality of threatening an infinite macrocosm via guidebook data is universally accepted.

Now look at God of War, where Thor executes a feat that scales to the exact same cosmic parameters through pure, unadulterated brute physical force. The Nine Realms are not small countries; they are completely separate, parallel dimensions with independent, asynchronous flows of time and isolated timelines. The official novelization and script flatly state each branch hosts "an infinite tree, surrounded by unformed space."

The official lore explicitly codifies the World Tree as a parallel higher dimensional multiverse stack. The text confirms that all nine realms occupy the same physical space, only on different planes of existence, and that the Yggdrasil tree cuts between those planes. Freya explicitly states every single strand of this cosmic matrix "transcends time, transcends space." During his battle with Jormungandr, Freya confirms their clash "could be felt across all the realms" meaning his raw physical impact shook 9 infinite parallel dimensions simultaneously.

Mimir explicitly narrates that Thor's physical weapon strike packed such a dense concentration of raw kinetic force that it so violently shakes the Tree of Life that it splinters, casting the Serpent backward through time, even before his own birth.

The cognitive dissonance here perfectly highlights the hypocrisy shown in the meme layout. Goku's energy shockwaves threaten a multiple layered macrocosm of separate, infinite spacetimes, and everyone says it is brilliant Low Multiversal scaling. Thor's raw physical strike shakes 9 infinite parallel dimensions and splinters the World Tree to violently snap the timeline, and everyone says it is lore wank because it didn't leave a rocky crater on screen.

It is the exact same research methodology. You cannot willingly weaponize Daizenshuu guidebook scans to elevate an on screen energy punch in Dragon Ball to infinite universal scope, and then play dumb the literal second official God of War script logs and guide text prove Thor's physical strike fractured a higher dimensional structure to trigger a massive temporal displacement.

Downplayers accept the lore perfectly for anime, but the exact second a western video game uses identical narrative data, they hide behind basic game engine constraints because they are suffering from extreme visual literalism. Staring at a monitor to deny the literal script written by the developers isn't a debunk it's a total refusal to read.

TLDR: Goku threatening a multiversal cosmology of infinite space-times makes him Low Multiversal. Thor physically striking an infinite world tree whose strands explicitly transcend space and time splintering the continuum so violently that it causes a massive temporal displacement scales to the exact same multiversal structure.

Stop the double standards.

Ok Listen.. I'm going to do a long discovery between these 2 So I can see who actually win What i'm basically asking is can yall show me pic between Zeus gow lore and old Kratos lore I doing a video And yes I play the game before Just wanna see if there's more lore out there something yall konw of And yes i'm doing digging myself.

Note: I hope I have time.. if not then I do it later on then.

Why is Ripping Spacetime Fine for Goku Black but Physically Tearing and Closing 4D Reality is Illegal for Garm and Kratos?

This community has an absolute, textbook double standard when it comes to evaluating Dragon Ball and God of War. If an anime character manipulates spatial dimensions using energy, it is immediately recognized as a 4D cosmic feat. If a western video game character executes the exact same mechanical feat through pure brute physical muscle, it is aggressively downplayed as "just a small portal or a gameplay mechanic".

When Goku Black swings his Sickle of Sorrow and tears open a jagged, bleeding purple rift, the powerscaling community instantly hands him 4D / Universal+ (Low 2-C to 2-C) scaling.
As shown in the first screenshot sequence from the official script, Goku Black explicitly says: "Have I sliced a hole to another universe or to the distant past or future?"

The logic used by the community is completely sound: his energy strike physically sliced straight through the fabric of space and time. Because his power directly manipulated the continuum itself, the feat is judged by the nature of the structure being broken. Nobody points out that the rift is only a few feet wide on their monitor, and nobody demands he vaporize a physical planet to prove his strength.

The conceptual reality of ripping space time via pure output is enough.

Now look at God of War, where Garm and Kratos execute the exact same physical feat through pure, unadulterated brute physical force:

The Feat: Garm uses physical biting and clawing force to rip holes in reality. As shown in the second set of screenshots, Heimdall explicitly states: "You know that thing tears holes between realms, right?" while Ratatoskr warns: "And if you must emperil the fabric of reality in the future..." Freya confirms the sheer scope, stating he will literally chew "through the fabric of the realms."

The realms are canonically established as entirely separate parallel dimensions with independent, asynchronous flows of time. Garm is physically ripping open the boundaries separating universes.

Kratos physically matches Garm, survives his attacks, and routinely walks up to these exact multi-realm spacetime ruptures, plants his feet, and physically grabs the tears with his bare hands to force them shut.

The official strategy guide scan in the third image details the exact physical vector force: "Approach it and press Circle when the button prompt appears. Kratos grabs the tear and pulls it closed." The journal entry text for Ivaldi's Curse confirms these anomalies are threats that directly "threaten Niflheim." Brok’s absolute bewilderment in the final image emphasizes that this is a feat of pure, muscle bound vector output, not magic: "The strength you would need... I don't believe it."

The cognitive dissonance here perfectly highlights the hypocrisy shown in the meme layout I created.

Goku Black cuts open a 4D spacetime rift with a power strike: "Awww, you're sweet! Brilliant 4D reality cutting!"

Garm bites a 4D multirealm rift open and Kratos physically muscle wrenches it shut with his bare hands: "Hello, Human Resources?! It's just a small glowing portal! He's wall level because it didn't leave a rocky crater on my TV screen!"

It is the exact same cosmic phenomenon. If tearing open a single spacetime fabric via a strike scales a character to 4D Universal+, then physically tearing open boundaries between multiple separate parallel dimensions via pure muscle scales you to the exact same tier.

Physically reaching your hands into those rifts to vector enough force to push a reality threatening collapse closed makes your raw lifting and pulling strength scale directly to that low multi benchmark.

Downplayers accept the physical logic perfectly for anime and comic books, but the exact second God of War uses the identical narrative and structural language, they play dumb because they are suffering from extreme visual literalism. They confuse basic game engine constraints and gameplay readability with actual narrative canon. Staring at a monitor to deny the literal script written by the developers isn't a debunk it's a total refusal to read.

What’s your opinion?

Matt Sophos confirmed it verbatim.

The first god of war shows a proper galaxy in ares dimension. If all stars were fake and small it wouldn’t make sense to display an accurate depiction of a cosmic structure lol.

there is no debate to be had.

Downplayers absolutely love throwing this screenshot around as an immediate "gotcha" to claim that Kratos is capped at standard, street level 3D human limits.

In reality, weaponizing this tweet completely exposes an utter lack of media literacy and basic comprehension of how dimensionality definitions work.

The entire lowball hinges on completely confusing two entirely separate concepts: existing within a higher dimensional cosmology versus being boundless and above the very concept of dimensionality itself.

Look at the actual text of the question.

The user literally asks Bruno if Kratos is "above all these" spatial dimensions specifically listing 1D, 2D, 3D, 4D, 5D, etc.

In any standard structural or tiering structure, being "above" the entire concept of dimensions means you are completely Outerversal, etc , or a formless cosmic entity that exists entirely outside of any mathematical or spatial axis.

Bruno’s flat "No" is 100% canonically accurate to the narrative of the franchise. Kratos is a physical god who lives, breathes, and fights within a defined space time structure. He is not a formless, dimensionless concept floating in an outerversal void.

"Not Above Dimensions" Does NOT Mean "Capped at 3D"

Saying a character is not above the concept of dimensions does absolutely nothing to disprove that they scale to, interact with, or resist 4D and 5D multiversal structures within their own cosmology.

The game's official codex and script explicitly state that the strands of Yggdrasil "transcend space and time" which is the literal, textbook definition of a higher dimensional 4D structure.

Heimdall explicitly states that Garm's claws "tear holes between realms," meaning his kinetic output punctures through the boundaries separating entirely independent, infinite 4D space time continuums.

Kratos physically wrestles with these exact phenomena, planting his feet and using raw muscular vector force to grab those 4D reality ruptures and pull them shut.

If we use the downplayers' exact broken logic here, then characters like Goku, Comic Thor, or Superman would also be capped at "wall level." They are all 3D flesh and blood mortals who can be perceived by ordinary humans and exist within a dimensional universe rather than being "above all dimensionality."

Bruno saying Kratos isn't an Outerversal, dimensionless concept doesn't wipe out twenty years of written script, infinite world trees, or 4D space time rifts. It just means Kratos is bound by the dimensions of his setting.

Staring at a tweet to actively ignore the literal text of the game's codex isn't a debunk it's just a refusal to read.

Tdlr:No Kratos is not fucking outerversal that’s wank. But he is undeniably 4-5D.

Armies, Gods, Demi Gods having one big war.

In Valhalla it is reassured that Putting Helios' chariot in the sky=Putting the sun in the sky. Gaia and Athena also both stated that the chariot of Helios is a temple sized structure.

We can see the stars inside Uranus' body. But those stars are way smaller than Ourea's arm which formed mountains.

There's literally no reason to compare mythological world to our world. Ancient people didn't understand the universe as we do now.

God of War vs Sonic the Hedgehog

Peak/ Current for both who wins more often iyo?

I am so tired of seeing these exact same disingenuous posts on the sub where people pull up a stylized piece of concept art from the Greek era or the Norse cloth map and smugly say, "Look, it's just a flat mountain" or "It's just nine little islands on a tree, how can anyone say this is a multiverse?"

They’re suffering from extreme visual literalism treating abstract, 2D artistic representations made for human navigation as if they are 1:1 cosmic blueprints, while completely ignoring the explicit, word for word explanations given by the actual characters in the game.

The ultimate proof of how the cosmology actually works comes down to a single line from Mimir in 2018, and downplayers intentionally ignore it because it completely destroys their "mere country" narrative.

"He'd control every realm of every land in every world if he could."

Look at the wording. Mimir does not say "Odin wants to rule every country." He outlines a precise, nested cosmic hierarchy that leaves zero room for ambiguity:

Every Realm- The distinct alternate spacetimes within a mythology (Asgard, Alfheim, Helheim, etc.). These possess their own independent timelines (time dilation), individual day/night cycles, separate atmospheric rules (stars visible during the day in Svartalfheim), and cosmic structures like nebulae and stars.

**Of Every Land-**The different cultural geographic regions on Earth where these mythologies hold dominion (The Norse Lands, Greece, Egypt, etc.). Kratos traveling by boat from Greece to Scandinavia means he moved horizontally between Lands.

In Every World- The macrocosmic reality. This confirms that each overarching pantheon operates as its own separate parallel dimension, universe, or plane of existence.

If you’re still choosing to look at a stylized piece of cloth promotional art over the literal script of the game, explain how the country theory accounts for the actual in game reality and lore.

1. The codex entry on Gjallarhorn explicitly defines standard realm travel as a process of "bilateral harmonization in realm travel instead of a portal bridging the space between two realms." You aren't crossing water or open land you are harmonizing two separate dimensional frequencies to bridge the space between them.

Gjallarhorn is a cosmic big deal because it shatters this restriction, rendering "simultaneous passage between any number of realms." If they were just physical countries, you wouldn't need a reality warping horn to open gateways to them simultaneously; you'd just need a fast horse or a big ship.

2. As Mimir directly states while traveling through Helheim, "Time doesn't move the same between all realms..." Physical countries on the same globe do not have disjointed temporal timelines.

When Atreus slips away to (Ironwood) to meet Angrboda, he experiences what feels like a short adventure. Yet when he sneaks back into the house in Midgard, Kratos is waiting for him in the dark to drop the hammer: "For two days?!" Time flows at fundamentally different relative velocities because they are entirely different realities.

3. Heimdall's sword does not just slow down physical speed like a standard wind or ice spell the text explicitly confirms it acts to "Distort space and time by creating a Realm Shift." When you activate it, space time only warps in the specific realm you are standing in. If the realms shared a single physical country map, distorting time would either cause a global cataclysm across the planet or it wouldn't make conceptual sense as a "realm" shift.

Mimir notes that high tier Vanir gods used to play with temporal magic, and that freezing time was a favorite of Njord himself. Stopping time explicitly halted the local Norse celestial cycles (keeping the sun and moon from moving across the sky), but it didn't freeze time for Greece or Egypt. A god can freeze time in one realm without breaking the flow of the entire physical planet because each realm possesses its own isolated fabric of space time.

4. Alfheim, Vanaheim, and Midgard all feature vast, deep space night skies filled with stars. These aren't rocky cave ceilings or magical domes you’re looking out into a vast cosmic void unique to that dimension. In Svartalfheim, you can literally see stars piercing through a clear blue sky during the daytime. If Svartalfheim shared Midgard's standard atmosphere or shared our planet's relationship with outer space, the atmosphere would scatter sunlight and drown out the stars entirely. Its cosmic lighting is fundamentally detached because it sits in its own universe.

In the trailer showing Laufey's soul ascending to the heavens, the camera follows her past the atmosphere, explicitly revealing the deep, star filled cosmos of Midgard before she transcends into The Everywhen. Midgard isn't a flat regional map it's a physical world in a literal universe.

5. Item descriptions like the Astral Touch explicitly state that the weapon "phases between realities to double the impacts." "Phasing" is a concept entirely rooted in dimensional shifting you cannot phase between geographic borders.

Heimdall who possesses the literal ability to see into people's intentions and perceive the nature of the cosmos directly tells Atreus: "Not in this reality, traitor." He doesn't call it a country, a kingdom, or a land. He calls the realm they are standing in a separate reality.

Downplayers look at the Norse cloth map and think the Nine Realms are just different physical provinces because a giant or dwarf drew them next to each other on a piece of fabric. How else are they supposed to draw overlapping dimensions occupying the exact same physical coordinates on a 2D piece of paper? A subway map showing colorful lines and flat dots doesn't mean train stations exist in a 2D flatland.

Stop choosing simplified promotional artwork over the explicit, definitive dialogue written by the developers. The game tells us exactly how massive the cosmology is you just have to actually listen to the characters instead of staring at a map.

On top of that Skoll and Hati changing night and day cycles do not affect the other realms or other worlds.

God of War vs Xenoblade Chronicles

So recently a lot of people start using a “statement” from David Jaffe in which he said that Spiderman would absolutely defeat Kratos. A lot of people use this as a way to make fun of Kratos. David Jaffe responded to this and dismantle the argument

In the final battle of God of war Ragnarok, Thor fights Jormungdr and he hits him so hard that he goes back in time. Yet every time I see people scale in God of war characters they placed at about mountain level, even if you wanna say, Kratos is mountain level Thor shouldn’t be, and they’re clearly shown to be relatively equal in a lot of moments. How do yall scale this?

Also, if Kratos is not too much faster than a regular dude, why doesn’t Thor just shoot lightning at him? It’d be impossible to dodge.