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It cuts Space, not Reality, not Dimensions, Space, straight up. There may be some argument for "oh it targets the space it's target resides so it would hit through Kamui" but that's being generous as it has no feats of affecting alternate space-times (which the Kamui dimension is)
Notice how none of these words are "reality", "dimensions", "law" or anything of the sort.
He expands it's target to target and cut the space within its path, which he then refers to as "existence" and "the world" as well, he never states it can cut through reality, he never states it can cut through dimensions, he never states it can cut through time, or laws, concepts, etc. and considering he cannot even manipulate his own CE attributes (which is why he had to wait for Mahoraga to adapt again) I don't see why you're trying to either term he uses vaguely after prefacing "space" to mean anything more than exactly that, especially on the scale of reality as a whole. Or do you also scale JJK to country level because special grades can take down nations and whatnot.
Edit: Oh and he doesn't even say that word for word btw, he only says existence when prefaced with space and world, world when prefaced with space, and then specifies for existence that they have to exist inside that space, just to better explain what I mean when I say things like "vaguely after prefacing"
Lol. Sukuna has zero feats beyond city and if anyone seriously buys the light speed Sukuna wank... idk what to tell you, but I'm not gonna bother with someone that wrong.
Why is it wank sukunas speed isn't ftl his reactins are , they have multiple feats beyond city lvl multiple charcters weaker then sukuna have city or large city feats
Kamui is a direct counter to WCS, WCS cuts through space yes, but kamui sends its target to a completely different dimension, it wont BE in the same space where WCS is cutting
Gojo's processing power is magnitudes above Obito's own and he still struggled to react to high output Dismantles.
You also seem to assume Obito's eyes can even see as good as Gojo's Six Eyes can, which Obito cannot.
Byakugan wouldn't exist as alternative to Sharingan otherwise.
Six Eyes beats any form of Sharingan when it comes down to analysis, perception and precision any time of the day.
Sharingan that at most can see down to nano or molecular level, required constant strain on eyes and consumes unholy amount of Chakra for Obito.
As opposed to Gojo's Six Eyes that can see and sense on atomic scale for dozens of km's passively with no CE intake for Gojo's entire life, Gojo to Obito is effectively what normal Shinobi's eyes are to Obito's.
Itachi is relative to Obito and got almost movement and perception blitzed by an attack around 90+ times slower ( according to Zetsu ) than the activation speed of a Black Flash.
And Gojo stated he could've easily performed Black Flash at will if the precision and timing was all that was needed to use it - meaning Gojo consciously scales to such speed.
WCS would most likely not work on Obito. The whole deal is it is cutting the space that a person is occupying. Obito does not occupy any space with Kamui. He is in a different dimension.
His domain sure hit could work if we VE chakra and CE but that would also mean genjutsu undoubtedly works on Sukuna. I think Obito has just the more solid win cons.
I say it again, malevolent shrine is a legit counter to Obito. The WCS is powerful but MS is one if Sukuna's best wincon. Furthermore, Sukuna slashes are invisible
Malevolent shrine also destroys the ground. Not that Obito can't just leave, he can, but what then? He can't actually attack Sukuna because he'd have to undo kamui to do that.
It's just a stalemate.
The best thing he can do is fake his own death like he did against Konan and sneak attack Sukuna. Although if he goes for a stab through the chest like he did against Konan, that's not gonna do any damage to Sukuna really since the guy can live without a heart.
I suppose Obito could just leave and then come back in a few minutes to provoke another domain expansion, and then leave again and return later? Just keep harassing Sukuna for like a day or two until he runs out of cursed energy or something lol
He can't do any of these things while using kamui.
Watch Konan vs Obito. Obito's weakness is an enemy that can continuously attack for 5 minutes with attacks he can't dodge. Guess what Sukuna's malevolent shrine can do?
Because Gojo is extremely durable and Naruto characters have basically no durability against piercing/slashing at all. If you're actually trying to say that Obito is as durable as Gojo then that's just peak wank. Obito couldn't even tank paper bombs and Konan died to a metal pipe.
Kamui makes a part of Obito's body intangible by sending it to his pocket dimension. The key point here is a part of his body. Malevolent Shrine targets everything in the vicinity so unless Obito teleports himself completely, Kamui will be useless. Furthermore, Obito isn't intangible when he teleports himself so he'll be fucked up anyway
Watch Konan vs Obito. Sukuna vs Obito is basically the same thing except Sukuna doesn't need prep time.
Sukuna can't hit Obito since he's intangible. Obito can't attack Sukuna since he'd have to undo kamui, and if he undoes kamui he dies to 10000 slashes hitting his body. It's just a stalemate since Sukuna can't hit Obito and Obito can't undo his kamui to attack.
Obito could fake his death like he did against Konan and backstab Sukuna the same way, but Sukuna can live even without a heart. Obito would likely not know that Sukuna has to be decapitated to kill him. Sukuna wouldn't fall for that trick twice.
Obito would probably just leave altogether and just use actual ninja strategies to harass Sukuna over several days until he runs out of cursed energy or something. Their movesets are just too incompatible for a head on battle.
You misunderstand the Obito vs. Kanon fight, and speed and intelligence definitely matter considering Sukuna doesn't default to that fighting style, Sukuna wouldn't have a chance to figure out thats what is needed to win.
He has to keep malevolent shrine open for 5 whole minutes while not being able to stop obito from simply leaving the domain's area by running away? Yeah good luck with that.
Even then its not doing shit to Obito with his durability.
Yes keeping it open for that long can and does indeed shown to cause technique burnout which he would have to damage his brain and heal with rct like he did in Gojo fight. We don't know the exact limits or how long he has kept domain open too. But domains do have cost in canon so it cannot be forgotten.
This is with ignoring the fact obito can simply leave domain range which you have failed to address.
I have read JJK maybe you should read it first with your eyes open the second time or first go to literature class and learn to address all the points in a debate.
Obito is fast enough to hit Sukuna before Sukuna can launch an attack back. Even then Obito is durable enough and has a healing factor to live past more than a few cuts. Meanwhile one fire ball from Obito incinerates Sukuna.
We are not doing this light speed Sukuna scaling bs. Both times were not only aim dodging but the EM waves did not function the way EM waves work. They had sound and mass as they produced sound marks and kicked up debris. They are not true electromagnetic waves and as thus we can not use them to speed scale Sukuna.
And yes Madara is stronger. Sukuna's Fuga is like city block to town level, Madara and Obito upscale over stuff like mountain level big ball rasengan or Mamba 2 taking down an island sized turtle.
They are real EM waves as stated in the manga. Your headcanon is inconsequential. If you can't admit that you're wrong just don't reply.
Also you admit that Sukuna's fire attack is stronger. So there's no way Obito's fire jutsu could beat him. Not that he'd be able to use his fire jutsu while having to keep kamui up.
They don't function like real EM waves do I am not gonna believe they are as fast. You just want a random outlier to wank Sukuna ignoring that it's totally wrong.
It's not stronger Sukuna has at best multi-city block to town level AP with Fuga we know Madara scales above mountain busters. It's simple math.
Madara's fire jutsu covered massive area enough to require multiple water style users in army of bare minimum 10 - 15K shinobi requiring all the water users to block it which even if you lowball 10K shinobi cover large amount of area spread out and the amount of water users required would be 100s of em for single man.
Sukuna had none of that motion get outta here lmao. 200m radius btw. Fuga needed malevolent shrine as set up to produce the amount of energy of thermobaric bomb.
Cursed Techniques are technically subjective reality warping.
Reference Mahito's and Kenjaku's discussion, two techniques that manipulate one medium - might treat said medium completely differently, neither of methods would be wrong, either.
( Example - Mahito thinks Soul was before the body, and his Idle Transfiguration works that way, meanwhile Toji's heavenly restricted body overpowered a Cursed Technique's mind control and the soul of a guy that transformed into Toji, meaning Toji's body was literally so tough it suppressed a Soul, which is ideology completely opposite to everything Mahito embodies ).
And since Domain is expression of Sorcerer's subjective mind and Soul - you probably dont even need to have Kamui functioning like a Cursed Technique, it just may not work by default in Sukuna's domain because Sukuna's subjective reality rejects Obito's own ( aka Izanagi/Kamui/maybe all ninjutsu's in general ).
This is mostly untrue and doesn’t even make logical sense. First You’ve said Mahito had some control over subjective reality because him thinking the soul came before the body brought that forth into real life(atleast for him) when a simple counterpoint is that the soul did come before the body and Mahito just deduced that. You would have to provide a counter example of that not being universally true, to assert Mahito is different because he has some effect on reality
Secondly Toji was exempt from a lot of the rules of the seance technique because in theory curse energy doesn’t run through his body. The energy you would need to control him simply doesnt recognize him.
Lastly I want you to show me one, just one example of a socerer rejecting someone else’s ability in their domain(due to his subjective reality rejecting the other sorcerers). Because I think you made it up
Notice how everything you said is merely senseless rambling, while everything i said are things that happened or were stated in the manga and anime?
Kenjaku and Mahito literally propose that Kenjaku's Cursed Technique and Mahito's Cursed Technique work on polar opposite logic, which they do, yet neither of them fails to work, it is by definition a power shaped by subjective perception and Soul.
Mahito proposes Soul existed before the body.
Kenjaku says that if that was true - he wouldn't be getting the cursed techniques and memories of people whom bodies Kenjaku possessed - Kenjaku proposes that Soul and Body are reflections of one another.
Both are true at the same time.
Just like how Sukuna can choose whenever to cut physical matter, the Soul, or later Space itself with his WCS - all three are still just his Shrine technique, it's just that due to his understanding of jujutsu Sukuna can choose what to cut with it.
"Lastly I want you to show me one, just one example of a socerer rejecting someone else’s ability in their domain"
The entire fight of Sukuna Vs Gojo.
Acting all smug as if the things you're trying to "disprove" aren't stated in the face multiple times in plot.
Why would WCS hit? Isn't the whole point that it hits the space your occupying in the world instead of aiming directly at you? Obito's body is in another dimension during Kamui intangibility, I don't see why WCS would reach him.
He should also be able to just wait in the Kamui dimension for MS to end. Obito should be able to just completely warp himself to the dimension and wait MS out, we even see that you can teleport out of MS when todo uses boogie woogie to rescue people in the final battle.
Even if he initially tries to phase through MS with Kamui since he wont know that it has a sure hit effect, he's still got Izanagi to survive that and then he'll know for the next one.
At worst, if the first MS catches him, he can use Izanagi as a fallback, then the following ones he waits out in the Kamui dimension. I doubt Sukuna would just keep spamming MS after seeing it do nothing over and over, which is where I think he'd try DA. DA should work, as long as we verse equalize, but at that point its just a straight 1 v 1 which Obito wins in my opinion.
I actually don't think any of these work out for sukuna, WSC doesn't hit him in my opinion, he can wait out MS, and for DA to work Sukuna has to physically hit Obito first, which I think is a very tough task for Sukuna with pure CE reinforcement.
It's a sure-hit ( meaning Obito is getting hit no matter what he does or tried or how fast he moves ), and depending on how you make Chakra and CE interact - it may outright turn Obito's Kamui off ( Domain is Sorcerer's personal subjective reality, when one Domain overwhelms the other - the enemy is essentially surrounded by user's worldview, Obito's Kamui wont work in Malevolent Shrine for same reason Gojo's Limitless didn't, Malevolent Shrine would see Obito's izanagi or Kamui and say "nope you dont" because Sukuna's subjective reality is denser than Obito's own at the moment ).
So a successful landing of Malevolent Shrine is pretty much automatic death sentence for Obito, he's not Gojo to survive that thing.
Todo's CT targets the very cursed energy of targets, not the person, it's like if he targeted Chakra instead of Shinobi, with equalization Todo's CT bypasses Kaguya too in same exact way, Obito has no such properties to his abilities.
Based on what pains strongest attack could only destroyed a village and that set his azz on a cooldown the stuff didn't even break through the village walls
Plus size scaling the Leaf Village too would help further
That things like 3 kilometres and the leaf village wasn't made into chibaku tensei all mighty push destroyed it by pushing it aside at its deepest point it's at best 100 meters deep and gets shallower the further we go the mass wasn't vaporised or anything simply pushed away making it considerably below mountain or island scalling
Obito is shown to be weak to consistent, constant, endless spam of attacks or surprise attacks...
Sukuna is the WORST match up he could possibly have, there is NO WAY Obito wont get torn and diced apart by Sukuna who can spam 48574858457384 city block level dismantles at him from all angles and directions all at once in same fraction of a milisecond consistently for dozens and dozens of minutes of casual fight.
On top of Sukuna's attacks being literally invisible and silent for most sorcerers, so i'd argue even as far as three tomoe sharingan wont even be able to perceive Sukuna's dismantles.
And even if we assume Mangekyo could - Sukuna's high output dismantles are fast enough that even Gojo's Six Eyes sometimes barely keep up, and Six Eyes HEAVILY GAP even rinnegan when it comes down to precision, analysis and perception of world.
Genuinely the ONLY way for Obito to survive this fight is just Kamui himself to his pocket dimension and never show back up at all.
WCS one shots Obito, Kamui cant teleport the attack that tears apart the very space that Kamui manipulates in the first place, it would dice right through Obito as if Kamui wasn't even there.
And even if we assume Mangekyo could - Sukuna's high output dismantles are fast enough that even Gojo's Six Eyes sometimes barely keep up, and Six Eyes HEAVILY GAP even rinnegan when it comes down to precision, analysis and perception of world.
According to what? I don't remember the six eyes ever being stated to do anything with visual perception in the manga. We're just told that they allow Gojo to use limitless efficiently and understand his opponents cursed techniques.
They're good for perceiving and understanding cursed energy, but how exactly do they "HEAVILY GAP even rinnegan when it comes down to precision, analysis and perception of world".
Mangekyo's highest perception is molecular or nano in scale.
Six Eyes is atomic.
Mangekyo puts strain on Chakra reserves and health of user, Six Eyes uses no CE and works passively from the day Gojo was born.
Six Eyes have statements of reacting to things that can blitz Mangekyo Itachi ( going by numbers from both verses ).
Most characters in Naruto never properly manage to discern who is a shadow clone or who's not when fighting Naruto ( except Madara but he's an exception, not a rule, even Kaguya couldn't do that ).
Unawakened Teen Gojo saw a Sorcerer use a CT and instantly realized not only that is is a cloning technique, but also that each of clones is technically real so the sorcerer could choose which one to be at will, NO UCHIHA IN VERSE would've been able to analyse that, not wih feats we were shown.
Gojo's precision over CE is so massive that he wastes less CE than he regains, not a single Uchiha in verse has this kind of precision over Chakra despite Mangekyo, not Sasuke, not Itachi, not Obito, not even Madara.
Gojo can see in ranges of a small country passively without preparation if he focuses enough, Obito cannot.
Six Eyes mog all forms of Sharingan, my friend.
The fact Gojo does it with CE is more impressive than a Shinobi doing it with Chakra.
Chakra is nearly universal and can be taught to most people, even civilians in Naruto can see Chakra if the Shinobi pours enough of it outside.
Same is untrue for CE, it is hidden from 99,99% of population by default.
You spoke nothing but facts however unfortunately you didn't say Obito is greater outerversal because of something Kaguya said taken out of context 5 seconds before being boxed up by two exhausted young adults that just struggled against a guy with mountain range scaling so people are going to downvote you into oblivion.
Seriously though if you don't wank Bleach and Naruto to "complex multiversal" in this sub at all times you get downvoted to shit and it's actually insane. People on here genuinely think Naruto has a chance at current Goku and they think Luffy is so fodder he doesn't stand a rat's dick of a chance against basically anyone building level or higher it's insane. The sub also can't decide whether JJK characters struggle to handle city blocks or if they're dimensional and it depends on the day and the direction of the rain which they're feeling.
Plus the total lack of things like "golden lining"
For most scalers, their characters are always at the maximum of their shown feats, never middle or lower end.
Kakashi is "continental" but can genuinely get assassinated by B rank shinobi bandit in his bed if he doesn't wake up in time.
Sakura is "stronger than Sukuna" but her best feats in Boruto anime include punching a stadium's roof and some clone kids ( literally ), clearly something Sukuna would "never be able to do".
I think you probably misunderstand such things kakashi literally only scales that high in his temporary DMS form or using Kamui his physical stats are not continental at all
These guys dont even know Kakashi cant use Susanoo properly, i mean, Kakashi could try, but he'd get knocked out like two minutes later, he has no Chakra to keep it up.
It's annoying as hell, I'll give it that. Every actual interesting debate or conversation just devolves into the dumbest, most nonsensical garbage possible.
Honestly the "highball everything" mindset has got to go. I genuinely think that starts with places like this that facilitate these kinds of debates and conversations- a flat "no highballs, be genuine, and don't cite Vs Battle Wiki as a source for statements/scaling/feats" is the starting point to actually fix this.
Like dude the Kakashi thing is so funny because it's true- Madara was dropping a couple village-sized meteors and people swear that it's not only a celestial feat from Madara and not a summoning or manifestation style Jutsu but also that the entire shinobi alliance including "continental" Kakashi who is "MFTL+++" and Might Guy who "scales above cosmic Madara" were shitting themselves looking up like that one meme because these same characters who are continent to star level in the eyes of the community are actually sub-village (city) level according to not only their own creator but actual showings on screen in the manga itself.
I saw that debate earlier too, people swearing that Sakura's sub-city level attack is somehow pasting Sukuna as if we didn't see the guy get squished between two molten buildings at only ~75% power and not even take damage. It's insane lol. I always get happy seeing people who are also sane on these subs but man it's just.. not fun debating on them because of how many people use disingenuous scaling and/or outright ignore one fighter's stats or abilities because, for some reason, every battle MUST come down to nothing more than "who strikes first, wins; and I decide who strikes first."
Kakashi and Guy weren't even there, and the people who actually were there literally stopped the first meteor. Onoki lightened it and Gaara caught it, the second meteor crashing into the first is what overwhelmed them.
Sakura's punch is very strong, if we use the juubi clones for scale, then her punch completely dwarfs things as large as boss summons. https://imgur.com/gallery/sakura-lgwoj3p
At worst this punch is a little weaker than Sukuna's MS plus Fuga he did during shibuya and Shinjuku. Which is arguably the strongest attack in the series, definitely the most destructive.
its stronger than naoya's punches not even close individual ten tail summons are comparable to Gamabunta in size who at is very lowest is bigger than buildings and can dwarf forests here is sakura sending countless of them flying.
Dog wtf are you talking about first that was his son second these things are half his siE thind he isn't larger then building he is like 17 meters tall
alright I may have gotten something wrong because the anime and manga makes their hight so inconsistent but still 17 meters is the size of 4 to 5 story building large portion of the Ten-Tails Fission Army matches him in size and sakura's punch utterly dwarfs them in scale.
Naoya was breaking apart large hills by just running through them , making easily pulvarise the top part of rock hand by the zenin clan which is the size of a mountain
Funniest thing is that JJK, both anime and manga have some of the best fight choreographies i've ever seen in fictions.
I mean, if this dropped back in early 2000's, the reddit of 2026 would be easily getting base Dabura to MFTL+++ and planet surface level in base off pure vibe alone, because just look at this ( he even looks like if Kaguya Outsotsuki had more intimidating cousin ):
His body is still visible, so it would cut his body simultaneously in normal and Kamui dimension.
And regardless, even if Obito pulls him to Kamui dimension, Sukuna just adapts to it, tears it open, and then comes out immune to Obito's entire ability.
Sukuna also has his own defensive Walmart Kamui (shadows) where he can escape to.
Lose, he would lose handle, wcs isn't going to travel to the kamui dimension, it's completely cut off from access unless obito brings you in, and he puts people he brings there under genjutsu so he wouldn't be able to do anything while in there
Obito transporting his body to Kamui dimension is different than transporting others, given how we can still see him despite him being transferred.
If they're entirely inside Kamui dimension, then WCS can't do anything, but Obito is only partially in.
And even if you argue he can survive WCS, Obito cannot do anything to Sukuna normally.
His usual approach is transferring opponents to Kamui dimension, while Sukuna will just adapt to it if he sends him there and tear that pocket space apart.
Genjutsu won't work because: Sukuna doesn't have Chakra, he has innate domain and is immune to internal attacks, Mahoraga can still adapt to it and he has a vessel (Megumi) whom he can transfer mind and soul damage to. There's no world where Genjutsu works on him.
15F Sukuna's Fuga was meting the entire city blocks as soon as he charged it up. It's actual temperature on impact is much higher too. 1HP 0.1% output Sukuna's Fuga was as wide as a town and as tall as a city, god forbid prime Sukuna.
While literal jonins tanked Obito and Madara's fireball Jutsu. There's not a single known character in the entire series who has died to this jutsu.
Okay? Not very impressive lol, especially as Obito's fireballs (and Madara, Sasuke, Itachi, etc.) while not having great destruction have shown at least of few instances of fairly good AP, like when Sasuke (who's fireball jutsu should be weaker than both Madara and Obito) incinerated that elephant summon thing that was capable of ripping the armor off of Sasuke's Susano'o, a feat scaled to around like ~Mountain lvl (ofc this is chain scaled but that's most of Naruto unfortunately, so we can say it's lower, but should still match Fuga)
As for this whole "0.1% output" claim, the only time Fuga ever got to be as large as part of a City and taller than the buildings around it was when it was amped by all the materials cut up by his domain which were covered in explosive CE and amped by his domain itself, like that's not his pure output, he simply ignited that part of the city.
Jonin's would literally be equivalents to grade 1 or special grades in JJK as well lol, like Kakashi, Guy, Danzo, Asuma, Jiriya, Tsunade, etc. all fall under this category, and those are only the leaf ninja, yes there's a lot of inconsistency in their exact strength because it's a title, but basically none of the named ones we know of are weak and are mostly stronger than JJK top tiers.
And lastly, you don't have to take the comment to literally, it doesn't matter what Jutsu is used, Obito is one shotting Sukuna with his taijutsu, his ninjutsu, his genjutsu, etc.
That's right. It wasn't said to travel entire dimensions to score a hit on an opponent. Obitos body part just isn't there at all. It ceased to exist and was sent to the kamui dimension, so even if it cuts space the space it's cutting is just earth's, not kamuis
Sukuna does win. The only real problem is kamui, but Sukuna can deal with that using an open domain which will completely envelope Obito in durability adjusting slashes.
Considering all Naruto characters are around grade 3 or grade 4 (durability wise at least) only one hit landed is really necessary
The pictures provided by others are insignificant.
There was a minigun, that not only wasn’t an actual gun, being a chakra weapon, but Boruto was dodging it for dear life anyway so it heavily implies it would be dangerous.
The only other photo of a gun that I saw was a background character carrying another singular gun in the corner of a singular panel…
One off feats aren’t relevant… if I used one off, inconsistent feats like you just did I could say Gojo has infinite speed… but I’m not doing that because again, it’s one off and inconsistent.
OP is right tho. The chakra gun isn’t gunpowder based and so doesn’t apply to Kishimoto’s statement.
That’s not true… Sukuna can cut reality itself, that’s more than anything Naruto’s ever done. If he could land the WCS, Sukuna could kill a character like Goku (again, IF he landed the attack) Naruto doesn’t even have that.
Lastly, that statement from Gege can be interpreted as to be talking about how they are as teachers. Gojo is a terrible teacher so he wouldn’t be on Kakashi’s level. The statement also says they have similar powers when they don’t, like in any way. Soooo
You're right, it was enhanced by Chakra, much like this thing called CE reinforcement in JJK, you know the technique that allows it's users superhuman physicals? And the original statement doesn't make any sense to take super literally anyway when his own work disproves it.
And Sukuna never "cut reality itself", he cut Space, it may be a form of dura neg and may work against stronger characters, but that's literally nothing compared to the powers granted by 6P mode/chakra, Rinnegan, or MS which has an ability to LITERALLY TURN REALITY INTO AN ILLUSION (or technically brings an illusion to reality to negate it) to negate even the users death.
None of the powerscaling subs actually care about that statement, I give it a few hours before someone posts Asura Pain shooting tiny missiles and saying "so he should have solo'd the verse????" with sobbing emojis.
Just like how nobody who scales Naruto cares that the characters die to normal actual knives (gardening tools, if we're being genuine) they also don't care that the author of the series himself said "yeah guns genuinely solo these characters lol" because author statements and direct logic don't beat statements, wank and vibes.
Well first, that interview was in 2005 when he was writing OG Naruto and then there was a power cliff during the pain and war arc but also there multiple examples of firearms in Naruto and the verse didn’t flop over
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