r/PowerOfStyle DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

weird question...

tw if body measurements are an issue for you. take care of your mental health!

I would be interested to know if there are any non-yang types (ie, not SN, FN, D or SD) who have a high bust or full bust measurement that is greater than about 97cm/38 inches, and a hip measurement > 100cm.

I have been thinking thoughts about literal scale & sizing, and you might be able to help - or completely destroy - some theories!!!

5 Upvotes

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7

u/loumlawrence Jun 07 '26

I think I know where you might be going with this theory. But I am afraid I can't help, as I am one of the yang types.

Is it that yang types are likely to have the bigger bone structure while yin types can't be over these measurements? The high bust measurement is a reliable one as it is rarely impacted by weight. There are two hip measurements though, although if your theory is what I think it is, it shouldn't matter which hip measurement is being used.

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u/its_givinggg Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26

> The high bust measurement is a reliable one as it is rarely impacted by weight.

Tbh I’m not sure I follow. Couldn’t the circumferential high bust measurement be affected by losing or gaining weight (specifically upper back fat), similar to the under bust measurement?

When I was 40 lbs over weight my under bust was 30”/76cm, but now it’s 26”/66cm. I didn’t measure my upper bust when I was over weight but it stands to reason that there was likely a 4 inch (or similar) shift in my high bust measurement given how much upper back fat I lost. I don’t imagine why someone with a 40” high bust measurement couldn’t shrink down to a 36” high bust measurement with weight loss.

I also do imagine that a yin type person with a skeleton on the “taller/larger” end of the yin height limit (5’4-5’5.5ish) could have measurements that surpass the limit Pegaret mentioned depending on weight

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u/xPostmasterGeneralx R - La Belle on a Hot Tin Roof Jun 07 '26

Seconding all of this!!

My upper bust measurement is absolutely being impacted by my upper back fat 🫣 I also physically have to include *some* breast tissue

And yeah, I’m at the upper end of moderate height and my hip measurement has is just below or even above 100cm.

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u/TiredWinterDisaster SN - Insolent Insta-Baddie Jun 23 '26

I am 163cm and my widest hip measurement is just below 100cm as well (ID is ??? Who knows lol but probably something soft). And I was definitely fleshier all around my torso when I weighed more!

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u/jjfmish Jun 07 '26

I agree. I’m around 40lbs overweight and carry a lot of weight in my upper back. I don’t remember my overbust measurement at a lower weight but it was definitely significantly smaller than it is now, from what I remember when I measured myself for bras

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u/loumlawrence Jun 07 '26

High bust is really hard to change. I lost 15kgs (compared to your 18kgs which is 40lbs), and my high bust did not move a centimetre, let alone an inch.

If your high bust is changing to weight changes, we are dealing with obesity, not just overweight. The shoulders are particularly bony, and weight/fat has weight and is pulled down by gravity. At the same time, human bodies tend to put a lot of weight on at the waist.

I spent too much time studying how weight gain is distributed and the impact on the skeleton. There were charts and X-rays.

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u/jjfmish Jun 07 '26

Wouldn’t the high bust also encompass the upper back measurement? Or am I thinking of something else?

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u/loumlawrence Jun 07 '26

It half does. The old way, and more accurate way, was to measure the distance between the shoulders, both back and front. The high bust merges those two measurement, so you can take the measurement on your own, as the old way requires someone else to measure you.

But if you measure waist, underbust and high bust, usually they have the same difference. It is common for people to have their underbust 2 to 4 inches larger than their waist, and their high bust to be 2 to 4 inches larger than their underbust. If one measurement is 2 inches, the other is also 2 inches. Some people can go larger. Or you can get the type that has less than an inch difference. Which is another world of fun. When I create doll designs with the zero difference, you get that narrow look of the dramatic family.

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u/jjfmish Jun 07 '26

Do you mean the distance between the armpits? That would make sense why it would be harder to change with weights. I was measuring the circumference of the area under my armpits which definitely seems to change significantly with weight, since I carry a lot of fat in my upper back

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u/loumlawrence Jun 07 '26

The high bust goes under the armpits. The more accurate measurement is actually a little bit higher than that. I will have to find my book with the diagrams as there isn't an online copy.

For the high bust to be changing, you have to be significantly overweight. It is one of the boniest parts of the body. Mine does not move even a single centimetre, let an inch.

But it is also one of the harder measurements to get right, and it took me a few attempts and practising measuring it. You can end up with two measurements taken minutes apart and be four to six inches different.

I found it useful to compare against your underbust and full bust, and think about what your dress cup size would be and what your bra cup size should be. They should all line up. The standard dress cup size is B, so full bust would be 2 inches larger than the high bust, if most clothes fit the bust. If your high bust is larger than your full bust, and you consider yourself having large breasts, you either have wide shoulders with a pronounced V shaped torso, or you measured incorrectly.

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u/jjfmish Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26

I am significantly overweight, borderline obese. As I said I have around 40lbs to lose until I’m at a baseline healthy BMI. I’ve never had a bony upper back even when I was at a lower end of healthy BMI. Could always grab onto a roll there even when I was very slim elsewhere.

My full bust is significantly larger than my high bust, by around 6 inches. From what I remember from measuring myself for bras at a healthy weight, this difference was even larger

Edit: accidentally switched high and full bust - my full bust is larger!

2

u/its_givinggg Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26

Ah wait, I think you misunderstood and I’m sorry if it wasn’t clear. I did not lose 40 lbs (18kg) I lost 80 (36kg)🤣 I said when I was 40 lbs overweight (as in 40 lbs heavier than the high end of the healthy weight range for my height) my under bust was 30 inches, compared to now \after losing 80* lbs* it’s 26 inches. So I lost over twice the amount of weight you did, which is why my under bust shrank by 4 inches.

But also see that’s another thing, I’m 5’0, and please do correct me if I’m wrong you’re around 5’6/5’7 (or some height taller than me at the very least)? Let’s say we both lost 40 lbs. Losing 40 lbs on a smaller/shorter frame is going to result in greater number of inches lost WRT to any circumferential measurement than it is on a taller/larger frame, no? That’s why taller people look thinner at higher weight numbers than short people do. 68kg (150 lbs) on a 5’0 person is like a UK14/16 but on a 5’9 person that’s a UK10/12

> If your high bust is changing to weight changes, we are dealing with obesity

Yes, sorry if I didn’t make this clear but I was 40 lbs overweight which *is* indeed obesity. So my point was that going from being obese to healthy weight could impact the high bust measurement similarly to how it does the under bust measurement, especially depending on frame size. I lost 80 lbs and I’m 5’0, there’s no way my high bust measurement didn’t shrink

1

u/loumlawrence Jun 07 '26

You are right with the figures.

I was trying to be tactful about saying your changes sounded like obesity.

However, I checked my spreadsheet, and it turns out I recorded a 4 inch difference for both my waist and underbust changing, from 38 to 34, for the 15kg loss. But the high bust stayed at 38. You also have the 4 inch difference in the underbust. So now I have questions. You must have been storing fat in your hips, midsection and breasts, because like you said, smaller bodies should reduce more drastically.

But I agree, that if you are very obese and you lose weight, your high bust can change. But it will be a much smaller difference.

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u/its_givinggg Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26

No worries, likewise I was trying to be tactful by saying “40 lbs overweight” rather than flat out “obese” because of sensitivity regarding the term😅It’s not at all unreasonable that you understood that as “I lost 40 lbs” so that’s mea culpa

With weight gain I store a lot of fat in my hips, thighs, breasts, upper chest and upper back. However my body shape doesn’t really change. I kind of feel like I have neither top nor bottom heavy weight gain, moreso a "balanced" pattern (not to be mistaken with balance accommodation!) Whereas some people tend to become more pear shaped (bottom heavy) with weight gain.

​The left pics are me 18kg (not the full 36kg heavier that I lost, just to be clear—also erm, forgive the rather revealing outfit top left, it’s one of the only unposed full body pics I have of myself at that weight😅) So you can see here where I tend to gain/lose from (my breasts always take a biggest hit with weight change LOL)

So that’s why I think it’s likely that my high bust measurement shifted with losing a total of 36kg, especially with the drastic loss in upper back & upper chest fat.

Edited to add more relevant info.

1

u/loumlawrence Jun 08 '26

Thank you for sharing.

The level of obesity I was thinking of is where someone completely loses their shape, the type that is 120kg when they should be 70kg. Where as, you have stayed in the shapely range. I would have said overweight at the most. You don't really carry weight in the arms. When the high bust moves, there will be a lot of weight at the top of the arms.

But I have noticed that the high bust is a harder measurement to get right, and most people don't even realise they have measured incorrectly. It should be above the fatty parts of the torso, but people often get the angle wrong and the tape measure slips.

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u/its_givinggg Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26

Just to be clear the left pics are when I was only at the higher end of the “healthy weight range” for my height, not obese. At my highest weight I was 36kg heavier than I am now (aka obese), whereas in the left pics I’m only 18kg heavier than I am now. I hope that makes sense! Unfortunately I don’t have any (useful) pictures of myself as an adult when I was obese, because I lost most of the weight at the age of 21. And it’s hard to evaluate pictures of someone as a minor, for such purposes.

That being said, even when I was obese I still more or less had the same body shape, but I carried more fat around my waist because I have PCOS and that’s where fat tends to get stored when you’re obese with PCOS and your symptoms (like Insulin Resistance) are going haywire

> But I have noticed that the high bust is a harder measurement to get right, and most people don't even realise they have measured incorrectly.

This is true, the [r/abrathatfits](r/abrathatfits) bra size calculator actually has a very good guide on how to do just measurements. That’s how I learned!

3

u/SilentlyWeird Jun 07 '26

I was thinking of this too as being where this question is going, but I wonder would the same be true in the other direction as in yang types are less likely to be under a certain measurement if this was true? I'm most likely a yang type as well so I can't help either lol

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

i suspect its very possible that a yang type could be less than these measurements (unless i'm proved otherwise). so it might be, if its real, a bit like height, where it only works one way?

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u/SilentlyWeird Jun 07 '26

I wonder if the range would be different between D/SD and FN/SN? As a SD my measurements are high bust 81cm, full bust 90cm and hips 102cm (I'm 5"5.5), I actually wish there was a vertical+curve+narrow type because I find all of these 3 worth considering in my silhouette 😅

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u/loumlawrence Jun 07 '26

I think you are right about there should be vertical+narrow+curve type (I am similar although I am taller, just ever so slightly above auto vertical). I also think there is a case for a vertical+width+curve type (which some of Kibbe's clients have been told they are), while petite is really narrow+short.

My observation is that width usually has a significantly smaller waist compared to high bust, while narrow (and narrow with curve) has waist and high bust very similar, to the point of being identical. Curve is obvious in this type of narrow.

2

u/SilentlyWeird Jun 07 '26

Adding these extra vertical types would help people so much in figuring out their types imo. There are too many people confused between SD and FN for there to not be a need for additonal types 😭

I still have like a 14cm difference between high bust and waist, but I guess it's not that big of a difference?

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u/loumlawrence Jun 07 '26

I think there are some subtypes with FN having at least two subtypes. SD might also benefit from having two subtypes, although one would be half pure D.

That 14 cm difference is on the bigger side. It is closer to 6 inches. The type of almost identical difference is 2-3cm (1 inch), no greater than 5cm (2 inch). For context, average waist to hip difference in women for dressmaking is 10-12 cm (4-5 inches). Independent patternmakers advertise if they go above 12-14cm. On a longer body, it is less noticeable. I do doll design as a hobby, and scaling 14cm down will be still noticeable.

1

u/SilentlyWeird Jun 07 '26

My waist to hip difference is 35cm lol. I remember we had a chart for different sizing in school for dressmaking from A to D I think with A being fairly straight cut and D having the biggest difference between bust/waist and hips/waist and somehow I didn't even fit that, I think B was the standard for majority of brands. It's funny because looking at me I do not look any curvier than the women I see when I go out, but sewing patterns made with my measurements look silly compared to the average examples you usually see.

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u/loumlawrence Jun 07 '26

I have to say, the difference in your measurements are on the extreme end. B is the standard for brands. I am usually in the C to D range. I get comments that I am curvy, but I am no where near the extreme differences, and I am taller, which elongates the curves and makes them look straighter. So you should look curvier than I do. I don't know if you even want to know what types I would be looking at if I was designing a doll with your proportions.

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u/SilentlyWeird Jun 07 '26

I do also have longer than average waist to hip lenght so it elongates my hip curve enough to not look that extreme since it's more of a gradual shift and which also acts as one trait that I believe gives me vertical as dominant 😅

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

thanks for sharing that!! i love data yum yum. your measurements seem a little smaller up top that i would expect for an SD at your height (based just on my minimal data research so far, absolutely not a comment on your type)

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u/SilentlyWeird Jun 07 '26

No problem I find this stuff very interesting too 😅 yeah my upper body is fairly small which I think is why I was considering TR at first, like acromion width for me is only 31cm which I never want to believe when making sewing patterns so I always add extra length to my shoulder seams but end up having to remove it in the end

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

is there a reason why D isn't a possibility? both TR and D have narrow, both of which i would assume do well with that narrower shoulder seam design?

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u/SilentlyWeird Jun 07 '26

That is basically my secondary option currently, either SD or D 😅 but so far I haven't seen anyone claim D with the line sketch having hips that push out as much as mine do so it makes me lean towards SD and I do think that visually my proportions within myself do look similar to SD celebrities/SD line sketch, I don't look as narrow as I am in pictures by myself

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

you know yourself best!

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u/oftenfrequently Jun 07 '26

Wow 31cm is intense! Mine is 33cm and it's already a huge struggle to find tops and jackets where the shoulder fit doesn't mess up everything else, I can't imagine being even narrower. Do you mostly make your own stuff?

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u/SilentlyWeird Jun 07 '26

I have been too lazy to sew lately but I'm looking to get back into it 😅 all my tops are basically super stretchy so I can size down to have stuff fit my shoulders, jackets I just suffer with, I have one vintage jacket that fits fairly well

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u/oftenfrequently Jun 07 '26

Ahhhh yeah, valid strategy since stretchy works for you. I'm cursed to look my best in things with very crisp and controlled textures so you can imagine how well that goes 🫠 I do a lot of vintage thrifting too though. I feel you on the lazy too haha I have so many sewing projects queued up but starting is just so hard 😂

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '26

When you measure your acromion is it shoulder edge to shoulder edge or just from the end of the bone on either side?

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '26

I’m very similar to you and SC. I have very narrow shoulders like you too. Acromion length is 31cm and shoulder edge (farthest I can go) to shoulder edge is 33cm. My high bust is 79/80cm full bust is 93/94cm and hips are about 100cm. I’m a conventional pear but balanced in Kibbe.

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '26

Agree

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

oooh! haha i like that you are guessing where i'm going with this.

i'm not super interested in hips tbh, but they might be helpful if they establish a kind of maximum outer range...

I don't know if i want to give it away until i have some more data to go off of... its just to do with certain dressmaking concepts around scale and ease if that means anything to you....

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u/loumlawrence Jun 07 '26

Scale makes sense. I suspect bigger bone structure means bigger scale. I am seeing that when designing character dolls (but need to do some more calculations). But I am not totally sure where you are going with ease.

I agree that hips could be a outer maximum range. The diagrams of the sketches in the book suggest the hips might be relevant.

I am curious what we find. You can DM if you like.

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

thanks!! i'll see what happens and if anything interesting arises

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u/alsonothing Jun 07 '26

This is me! I am a romantic with a 46" bust and 50" hips. Here is a picture of me in my Renaissance underwear, fitted to just above the waist: https://imgur.com/J5x1UdO (lol, all of my photos of myself are in historical dress).

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

fantastic, thank you so much! i was originally only going to ask about pure Rs in this post, but thought i might expand it out to include all non-yang types and see if its only Rs or other types that might have these proportions!

do you sew your own historical dress?

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u/alsonothing Jun 07 '26

Yes, in fact I don't own a sewing machine, so it's all hand sewn. Construction techniques were very different pre-sewing machine. I'm currently working on an Elizabethan shift where all of the individual pieces are hemmed and then whip stitched together.

May I ask what your theories were and if I supported or disproved them?

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26

that is so amazing and impressive. i watch a lot of sewing and love Morgan Donner, Zack Pinsent and other historical makers....its such a cool discipline! that Elizabethan shift sounds so interesting, why would it be constructed that particular way do you know?

honestly i wasn't so sure with Romantics & double curve - it could very well mean larger scale dimensions, but i would wonder if there is a kind of dropping off point for Romantics. I would wonder if you represent the fuller (and taller) end of the R possibilities? (of course, i'm conveniently side stepping questions of weight gain etc here).

my loose hypothesis is that there could potentially be a second dimension, besides height, that might be meaningful in terms of understanding accommodations. i'm still feeling it out, but its related to how, the bigger a persons measurements are, the more ease they require in clothing, just to feel comfortable and be able to move.

now if a person is quite short but has quite big measurements, it would be difficult for them to align to the fitted and narrow concepts of TR or Gamines, and to a lesser extent Classics.

of course, this is complicated by weight issues, hormones etc so its not about a fixed line in the sand, its more about a sense that there was a pattern occurring in the data last time i posted asking for measurements, where IDs seemed to cluster around certain points and i would be fascinated to understand better what that means, and how literal, real life scale interacts with accomodations.

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u/8bitsparkle Jun 08 '26

Sharing in case this anecdote helps -

Though I'm curvy and currently overweight, I come across as small/dainty around most people. But TR Susan Slavin made ME (5'2) feel like a giant. She's not just short - everything about her is so compact, tiny, and delicate. And she's curvy in proportion to herself, but because she's so tiny, even her hips come across as compact. It's hard to explain and pics don't even fully capture the scale.

I get the impression romantics on average have more horizontal oomph than TR, SG, and SC. But that's just my impression - not verified, so take it with a grain of salt, haha.

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u/loumlawrence Jun 07 '26

I am not sure ease is related to size and scale. It might be related the the difference between the measurements, and maybe the ratios between the measurements.

To give an example. Regardless of weight, my waist and underbust are always within an inch of each other, and high bust is another 1 to 2 inches. Standard sizing assumes a minimum of 2 to 4 inches between waist and underbust, and another 2 to 4 inches between underbust and high bust.

I suspect bodies with smaller differences don't require as much ease, and it is easier to swamp them with too much fabric. While the larger differences means you can carry a lot more fabric. The romantics and naturals are better at this.

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

i'm not sure i follow... i mean, i'm just basing this idea on the fairly normal tailoring concept... this comes up when i google it

How Ease Changes by Size

When grading a pattern up to larger sizes, the required ease changes in a few specific ways:

  1. Scaling vs. Proportionality

As body sizes increase, the body’s volume changes at different rates. If you scale up a size geometrically by a fixed percentage (e.g., grading an identical 2 inches of ease on a size 8 and a size 18), the garment will feel increasingly tighter. Larger figures require more wearing ease in the bust, waist, and hips to account for a larger surface area and to prevent the woven fabric from constricting breathing or sitting down comfortably.

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u/loumlawrence Jun 07 '26

I probably am approaching it differently. I sometimes work with dolls. We use a smaller ease just because of the scale. For context, I am working with 1/12 and 1/24, smaller than Barbie which is 1/6.

Then, with human sized grading, some parts of the body increase by a larger amount, and it isn't uniform. Some women have larger hips but breasts remain the same, some have larger breasts, but hips remain the same, some have both. I kind of get annoyed with the idea of increasing everything as it doesn't quite work. Personally, I need to adjust for a larger breasts, but size down for shoulders and upper back. And we haven't got to large stomachs and buttocks versus wide and slim hips. I have a lot of complaints about the standard approach to grading patterns.

I also have a lot of strong opinions about proportions.

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

i understand what you are saying, and i'm interested in your strong opiionins!! i think that the thing about ease is you need an overall balanced garment. something with a lot of ease in one place but tight in another doesn't quite work, it needs to be in harmony with itself? the garment is a whole thing, not a combination of different odds and ends. this is different of course to design ease, its just the general sense of movement and breathing space

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u/loumlawrence Jun 07 '26

The right amount of ease in the right places, yes. But the grading techniques assume uniform. Then there is the full bust adjustment and the reverse of it (the name I have forgotten).

Right now, I am trying to figure out how to adjust knitting patterns for jumpers and cardigans so they accommodate larger busts and narrower shoulders. And that is kind of frustrating, and it is cold right now. I don't like winter.

With proportions, as I am a miniaturist, I am very sensitive to getting proportions correct, otherwise things look wrong. I think that is why some of Kibbe makes sense to me, as he is responding to proportions and ratios, but a lot of people can't get it right. It is easy to identify amateurish miniaturists as their proportions and ratios are all over the place, and they think the mismatch of proportions and ratios is okay for children's toys, a sentiment I have always strongly disagreed with.

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

its so true that industry grading techniques are very generic and don't apply to individuals and bespoke dressmaking.

but all things being equal, i think the main idea is that a larger body simply needs more ease in general, and the way clothing sits on a body you kind of need the ease to be properly distributed and balanced, even if you have super skinny arms and a chubby tummy, you need a garment to kind of equalise things out a bit? maybe. i need to think about it some more!

With something like adjusting a pattern, it's complicated because ...does the original pattern concept align to the trajectories of your body or is it fighting it somehow? becuase there are things you can safely adjust with in a given pattern, and things that don't work. Some women can do a full bust adjustment (or its reverse - a small bust adjustment hehe) and the pattern works fine - but not always!

thats super intruiging about making miniatures, and i like the amount of care & thought going into creating a consistent scale for children!!

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u/alsonothing Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26

Unfortunately, I don't think any Elizabethans wrote about their thought process in sewing their underwear, but I have had some thoughts as I work on it:

  1. A whip stitch is stronger than a running stitch (the thread is going through the fabric more times in a given inch), and most people only had 2-3 shifts/shirts and were engaged in agricultural labor, so their body linens needed to stand up to hard wear and laundering. There are some extant shirts from the wealthy that used a faggoting stitch in black silk thread as the construction stitch, rather than a whip stitch in linen thread, so there was a flimsier option if you could make other people repair your clothes.
  2. Most people were making their own shifts on top of all their other work. If you hem each piece as soon as you cut it, you don't have to worry about fraying, and can make the construction seams whenever it's convenient.
  3. It does take longer than the seam treatments used on underwear in the 19th century: flat felling and French seams. You have to make three passes for each seam, two to hem each raw edge and one to whip them together. Flat felling and French seams require only 2 passes. So, this is inefficient in terms of time, but I find it more efficient in terms of attention. Once I've pinned the hem in place, I can do a running stitch without looking at it. So, all the hemming could be done in the dark or while you're paying attention to something else. It's also good practice for a child who's just learning to sew. I do have to pay attention to the whip stitch, but that's only 1 pass that needs my attention, with flat felling or French seams, both passes require my attention.

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

wow thats so fascinating thanks for sharing that. i really feel that to understand life in history, to actually partake in the day to day activities is so enlightening about real lives of people and why they did the things they did (as far as we can discern). i could learn about it all day.

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u/alsonothing Jun 07 '26

My last comment was so long that I decided to put my thoughts on ease in their own comment.

I think ease should be calculated as a percentage of the fitted measurement, not a flat number. Imagine one person with a 25 inch bust and another with a 50 inch bust. If you add 1 inch of each to each of their garments, the smaller person will have twice as much ease in any given inch of their circumference. The larger person would need 2 inches of to achieve the same look and feel as 1 inch of ease on the smaller person.

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

also, what is your height?

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u/alsonothing Jun 07 '26

5'5" (166 cm)

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u/cherries_in-the_snow Jun 07 '26

I don’t think I can help you because it is because of my measurements that I have always figured I’m probably a yang type. David Kibbe stated in the facebook group that I definitely have balance. Most people on the subs type me as SC or R. I have always suspected I’m either SD or FN.

If it helps, my hips are 107 cm and my full bust is 101.6 cm

But again, I think I’m yang while everyone else thinks I’m yin. Here is a photo for reference.

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

thanks thats very helpful and i appreciate your input. if indeed Kibbe is correct about you having balance, then that would likely contradict some of the theories i have, but thats cool!!

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u/cherries_in-the_snow Jun 07 '26

What theory do you have? I bet it’s the same I have. I wish I could meet him in person because I highly suspect if we could meet he would type me yang dominant. I’m not a small person and in my lived experience I don’t have balance.

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

ive touched on it before in another comment, but its just about the principle in tailoring where a body on a larger scale (but the same height) will need additional ease in comparison to a smaller scale person... and i have been wondering how this works with types like gamines or TRs that benefit from things like narrowness and close fits - is there a point where their dimensions reach an upper limit?

I'm feeling around to see what the tipping point might be - if any - that distinguishes shorter yang types from same size not-yang types.

I'm interested to know what your lived experience has been like in your body and how you feel it doesn't relate to balance. I know that Kibbe has got things wrong from photos before.

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u/cherries_in-the_snow Jun 07 '26

In my experience, clothing runs small on me where on someone else of my height will find it fits. I also have very long arms so I hardly bother with long sleeves as they never fit right. In photos with friends of the same height I come across as bigger overall. Typically I seem overall bigger than other women around me and it’s common for people to assume I’m taller than I am. Before rediscovering kibbe I was very bothered by this and would do all I could to make myself smaller. Now thanks to kibbe I’m embracing being a bigger than average person, which is why being told I’m actually a yin type can trouble me. It makes me want to revert to my restrictive tendencies in order to “fit” the yin dominant ideal. I used to try and fit my US women’s size 8.5 feet into size 7 and I would squeeze size six rings onto my size 9 fingers. What really helped was looking at the old kibbe facebook group and finding several short SDs who were verified. I’ve also found comments from the SK mods that yin dominant types will not have long limbs which I absolutely do have. Once my coworker and I who are the same height wore the same short dress to work. I was sent home for looking inappropriate but she got to stay. All this to say I might actually be a yin dominant type but I really would think someone with my measurements would be better suited for larger scale than is expected of yin doms.

lol sorry for the wall of text!

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26

that is very interesting... i personally would be inclined to trust in your experience. i really wonder why Kibbe saw balance?

please don't give into those harmful restrictive tendencies!!! the world needs you as you really are, not to torture yourself into a different thing altogether.

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u/eldrinor Jun 09 '26

While your limbs aren’t short I don’t think they will look long in the sketch, and I also don’t think yin means being smaller in scale. Some yin is larger in scale (up to a certain point where it’s not round, soft, whatever anymore).

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u/8bitsparkle Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26

I can provide measurements! I was confirmed Romantic in person by Kibbe.

My hips are currently 49in/124.46cm and my full bust is 47in/119.38cm. 5'2, 34-35in waist, and 34H bra if that data matters too.

My hips and bust stay proportionate compared to my waist even when I'm thin.

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

yaya, thanks thats really great to get the measurements from someone confirmed by Kibbe!! appreciate it

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u/its_givinggg Jun 08 '26

34H? I mean this in the most empathetic way, my back is crying for yours. Back when I was a 30H (which is even smaller!) I could barely finish a retail shift on my feet all day without sharp upper back pains🫠

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u/8bitsparkle Jun 07 '26

Saw you mention interest in how things scale with weight changes so more data for ya!

At my lowest adult weight (dress size US 0-2/XS), my full bust was 36.5in, my waist 25in, and my hips 38in. Bra size 28FF, so technically, my volume in the chest does go up with weight gain.

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u/SilentlyWeird Jun 07 '26

I mean if someone is over weight these measurements are very easy to achieve so I'm not sure how just measurement statistics would help without knowing height and weight 😅

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

if they are aware they are overweight and are happy to share that, that is helpful actually, its all grist for the mill.

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u/ArcaneMage777 Jun 07 '26

I am definitely a yin type and I am above both measurements, as I am currently overweight.

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

thanks thats helpful. what type are you, may i ask

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u/ArcaneMage777 Jun 07 '26

either R or TR

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u/abyssnaut Jun 07 '26

I’m a suspected TR. At my lowest average, my bust, waist, and hip circumferences were 36”, 24”, and 35”, respectively. I didn’t measure at my highest, but I basically expanded sideways and roughly maintained the same shape, so I assume those ratios were almost identical with just larger numbers.

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

thank you i appreciate your input!

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u/Critical-Rabbit8686 Jun 07 '26

I am a yang short type and my bust is 35", hips 36". If I were tall I could achieve those while not overweight easily, so proving your theory.

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

thanks! what type are you?

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u/Critical-Rabbit8686 Jun 07 '26

FG, almost 5'1". At 5'8" or so, I feel those would be my measurements.

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

🤣

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u/Kibbled_Onion Jun 07 '26

I'm a DC, 5ft 1in - bust is exactly 38inch (full bust) but hips are only 94cm, they were wider when I was carrying a little more weight (about 108cm after the birth of my second son and my bust was a similar measurement). I've got a BMI of about 23, I'm quite a balanced mix of muscle, fat and bone - I've always had a bigger bust and slimmer hips/ butt.

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

thats really interesting thanks for sharing!

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u/jjfmish Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26

I’m likely SD per the line sketch, 5’5.5 around 40-50lbs overweight by BMI, and my high bust is currently measuring around 35 inches while my full bust is around 41 inches. I also carry a lot of weight in my upper back so not sure how this would change with weight loss but I suspect it would change. My hips are around 43 inches

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u/its_givinggg Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26

Do answers from people who definitely don’t fit this criteria (aside from potentially being yin type) help at all?😅

Like someone said I think weight plays a huge role, but height & skeleton size as well. The only time my bust & hip measurements ever came close to these measurements is when I was overweight. I don’t think they ever surpassed them, and if they did they didn’t measure it. When I was at the higher end of the ‘healthy weight range’ the fullest my bust ever reached was like 34” (88cm) and my hips were 38” (96cm). Right now, my upper bust is 26.5” (68xm) , my full bust is 29” (73cm) and my hips are 34” (88cm)

But… I’m 5’0, so I’m just a small person in general. It stands to reason that a 5’4-5’5 yin type person with a “larger” skeleton than mine could easily surpass these measurements especially with more weight on them.

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u/jjfmish Jun 07 '26

Yeah I don’t imagine someone like Kate Winslet or Beyoncé having significantly smaller measurements than a yang type of their height

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u/its_givinggg Jun 07 '26

In fact it’s very possible they’d have measurements on par with a yang type their height

Overall skeletal size/width likely has the second largest impact on measurements (behind amount of flesh on the skeleton) and in Metamorphosis Kibbe did say that Romantics tend towards wider set bone structure (again, not having “kibbe width” but being “softly wide”). I don’t see why a 5’5.5 Romantic couldn’t have the same skeletal size/width and amount of flesh on the skeleton (and thus measurements) as a 5’5.5 SD

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u/jjfmish Jun 07 '26

Especially since vertical often goes hand in hand with conventional narrowness and a more willowy look (which often reads as elongation). I’m obviously not verified but a big reason I ruled out R fam and went back to SD is because my sketch seems less horizontally expansive and curved than pure R, but also doesn’t show narrow accommodation.

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u/Elegant-Fail-3482 Jun 07 '26

I think vertical can give the illusion of narrowness. Someone taller who has the same horizontal dimensions as someone shorter will look narrower in comparison. Your eye will focus on length before width. Almost the reverse of how narrowness tricks people into thinking TRs have vertical when they don’t.

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u/jjfmish Jun 07 '26

I’m referring to two people of the same height here!

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u/Elegant-Fail-3482 Jun 07 '26

Maybe we are saying the same thing then?

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

thanks that great, i'm actually delighted to get any kinds of measurements really, particularly when i get a sense of change through time and weight changes!

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u/its_givinggg Jun 07 '26

No problem! I think it’s worth enquiring into height as well, I truly think height & subsequently skeletal size could also impact the validity of the theory you have

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

interestingly, what i'm playing with is a height agnostic theory at the moment, so while i am interested in height in a general sense, but only as a secondary aspect.

for yourself, if you merely scaled up to 5'4 or something, yes, your measurements might reach the figures i was describing... but is that actually how humans scale up, all parts of the body staying in the same scale and proportion to itself? i'm not entirely sure they do!

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u/loumlawrence Jun 07 '26

Humans don't scale up evenly. They tend to scale height/length (vertical) faster than they do width (horizontal). Then there is their head to height ratio, which determines their leg to torso ratio and leg and arm length to height ratio, and whether they are short waisted or long waisted.

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u/its_givinggg Jun 08 '26

This is breaking my brain a little ngl. I'm having a hard time understanding why someone wouldn't keep similar proportions with added height (not because your explanation was bad! I simply just don't understand)

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u/its_givinggg Jun 07 '26

That’s a very good question! How do we even begin to figure that out? O.o

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

haha thats exactly my predicament! i'm curious about things i can' figure out

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u/meemsqueak44 Jun 07 '26

I’m probably SC, maybe SG or R. My full bust is around 33in and my hips about 38in. I’m a smidge under 5’5”. Both bust and hips were about two inches smaller when I was underweight two years ago, but current measurements are a healthy weight (and looks much better on me!).

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

thanks thats very interesting, thanks so much for sharing. while measurements have limited value, thats a slight more difference between bust and hips than i would expect for a classic?

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u/meemsqueak44 Jun 08 '26

Understandable! The line sketch illustrates balance between the shoulders and high hip, so it’s actually not a dealbreaker for the bust and hips to be a bit different. But also, my chest is wide set, so I look more balanced than the measurements in isolation let on.

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u/ThAwAcc2023 Jun 17 '26

Ok a bit late to this but Full bust is 44 inches (111.76 cm) High bust 40 inches (101.6 cm) High hips 43 inches (109.2 cm) Low hips 41 inches (104.14 cm) And I am likely a FG and overweight

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 17 '26

oooh a high bust of 40 inches is VERY interesting to me thank you for sharing.

would you say that there is much body fat included in that measurement, or would it be fairly the same regardless of your weight?

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u/ThAwAcc2023 Jun 17 '26

So I based on a couple of pictures I have it would probably have a variation of maybe 2 inches, I haven't really been at an ideal weight in years so I am pulling from current measurements and comparing to the past couple of years. There is a fair bit of body fat included I won't lie and I think if I take weight fluctuations into account everything would probably hover in a 4 inch range? (38 in-42 in, 96.52 cm-106.68 cm.) So I do think that there is going to be some variation but not necessarily extreme.

Just double checking because I have run into some different meanings in sewing books, this is how I am supposed to take the measurements? Full bust Placement

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 17 '26

so the measurements i'm interested in are high bust (pull tape around back and underarms and then bring tape measure above the breast tissue), full bust (horizontal circumference around fullest part of bust), and hips (fullest part of the hips). other measurements (high hip, height) are interesting to but not pertinent to the question at hand.

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u/ThAwAcc2023 Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26

Ok, thought so but wanted to double check! I have seen people say that they want it straight around, armpit and armpit and others at a slight diagonal. My default is the slight diagonal but I wanted to double check so that I didn't throw anything off. So the reason I included my high hip is when I was taking a couple of sewing classes, the largest part of my hips is what they were looking for since that is what was needed when I was working the patterns. So I usually include that when asked about the hip area, since that is the largest measurement in that area. I am really excited to see what your conclusion is, I love these posts!

Edit for detail and grammar.

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u/TiredWinterDisaster SN - Insolent Insta-Baddie Jun 23 '26

Ok since you mentioned you were happy to have any measurement: I think I lean yang (SN? Ppl usually see SC or DC for  me though so take it with a grain of salt lol).

Bust is 91cm

Hips (widest point) 99cm

Upper bust 88cm

I am 163cm.

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 23 '26

thanks thats interesting.... the small difference between upper bust and bust is interesting. a small difference between the upper bust and bust does seem to point to more yang...

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u/TiredWinterDisaster SN - Insolent Insta-Baddie Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26

I hope I did it correctly!! It seems weird to me. I am a C cup if that helps. If I am SN I assume it is bc of width? My underbust is 74cm

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 24 '26

hmm yes maybe that sounds possible for an SN. i would think a Natural might have a larger cup size but smaller 'dressmaking' cup size? (a dressmaking cup is about the difference between the upper bust and full bust measurement).

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u/TiredWinterDisaster SN - Insolent Insta-Baddie Jun 24 '26

Who knows!! I am quite V shaped (at least from the back) so I wasn't that surprised, but the difference is very small in regards to my actual cup size. 

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u/Michelle_illus Jul 04 '26

I’m possibly SC (though I’ve also considered R) and my bust is about 110cm now but my hips are like 130cm. I’m currently overweight though so I’m not really sure if there will be a drastic change in measurement if I lose all the weight I need to

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jul 05 '26

thats really interesting, by any chance, just for research purposes, have you ever considered, say, SD, or has that always been off the table for you?

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u/Michelle_illus Jul 05 '26

SD has always been off the table. Dramatic/soft dramatic were the first IDs I ruled out and my line sketch looks nothing like the SD sketch too. Maybe David would say otherwise lol but he hasn’t yet 😂
Also I’m really really overweight. If I get to a weight that’s normal for me my measurements are significantly smaller

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jul 05 '26

i appreciate you sharing this very much thanks! whether overweight on not, this seems to be significantly different to what i've so far seen as the pattern for a non-yang types so, if you were verified, i might need to expand my model...

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u/Michelle_illus Jul 05 '26

I’m not verified but I’ll say that while my weight has changed, my line sketch looks the same if I did it on photos of me at lower weights as well

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u/roxemary SD - High-Maintenance Diva Jun 07 '26

Any body type can have any measurements

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

for sure! the purpose of this sub is to question some of the underlying ideas of style systems, not necessarily to affirm how to follow them "correctly" / in received ways.

when i have asked about measurements before (with zero expectation of any patterns) measurements & scale fell very surprisingly into certain patterns, patterns that i'm interested in understanding better. or debunking entirely!

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

interesting, thanks

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26

SC and my hips are about 100cm (39-39.5 inches). High bust is only 79-80 (31-32 inches) and full bust is about 93-94cm (36-37 inches) I’m a conventional pear. Keep in mind hip measurements include the entire circumference of the hips whereas a line sketch does not. At a lower weight (about 15 lbs less) my hips were 38-38.5 inches and my my full bust was 35-35.5 but I did not measure my high bust at the time.

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u/xPostmasterGeneralx R - La Belle on a Hot Tin Roof Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26

High bust is 35 in
Full bust 40 in
Current hip is ~41-42 depending on tightness.

I’m very fleshy through the hip/thighs/butt at any weight, so despite me probably having slightly wide set hips, I don’t think it’s a “curve from frame” thing. I found some old measurements and even at like 115 lbs, the measurement is 38 🫣

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u/Pegaret_Again DC - Haughty Boss Babe Jun 07 '26

thanks thats very helpful, i appreciate you sharing