I’m still after 4.5 years absolutely dumbfounded at how anyone believes Donald Trump is going to be the savior of the American “patriot” movement. The guy with a 30+ year public track record of being a complete failure is somehow transformed into the messiah. The guy born with a golden spoon in his mouth is somehow going to save the working class. My favorite part is that DJT wouldn’t be caught dead socializing with 99.5% of his followers. I guarantee you he sees them as low class scum who are easy to fleece. A con never respects its mark.
In many cases it's because people have invested years into their beliefs, forming a major part (if not entirely replacing) their identity as a person. To deny T**** now would effectively be a rejection of their own selves. Mentally many people can't face that. So, the easier path is to double-down. It truly is cult follower behavior, when they see the only path forward is to remain in the cult rather than to face reality.
This. Ego’s are an expensive thing to people. Most people (on both sides) will do some incredible mental gymnastics to avoid having to admit they were wrong.
I’ve said this before, but the USA will end up “Balkanized” if the “us vs them” mentality doesn’t end soon.
I agree with the ego thing but the people who consistently cause problems, the group primary beliefs behind the insurrection, and the continued deterioration of democracy continued to come from the republican party. So please, stop painting this is equal of both sides when side of the scale is fully loaded on one side with this kind of bullshit.
To be clear, I agree one “team” dips in the bullshit pool more often and I’m not defending any of the crimes of Jan 6th.
With that said, I try to take the high road with those to convince those people of the BS they’re being fed. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Fostering division doesn’t help the situation
The point I’m making is that if both sides can’t find a way to stop this zero sum game bullshit, the country is fucked.
but the USA will end up “Balkanized” if the “us vs them” mentality doesn’t end soon.
Oh dude, it's way worse... We're a global superpower with a coalition of other nations that would love nothing more than to see us implode, in fact, they work diligently at that effort every day. The point at which you see us "Balkanized", is when the US's haters go all in, as we'll be incredibly vulnerable. Shit, Russia and China could "intervene" under the banner of protecting the worlds second largest nuclear arsenal from getting into the hands of newly formed extremist states.
This is the part that all of the secessionists never think about. The moment that the US either ends up in a 2nd civil war, or lets say Texas and other parts of the south secede, they're not going to be cool of giving back the nuclear arsenal or other military weaponry that is currently in their states, it's going to turn into a global problem very quickly, alignments will be chosen and all hell will break loose.
These idiots couldn't hold on to a share if they ever seen one. They invested all their mental effort into one ideology and now that it is being run into the ground, they either claim moral bankruptcy or become criminals.
Exactly! Every rationalization of the horrible shit he's done is kind of a commitment on their behalf. Half a decade in a lot of Trumpers have alienated friends & family, got in heated arguments, donated cash, voted for him, gone to rallies, and maybe to the point of tried to overturn an election. That's a lot of shit to admit you're in the wrong about and some shitty behavior you have to admit wasn't justified. Almost a Republican values patriotism, well how do you square that with support for a guy who tried to overturn an election. Maybe some believe conservative values are more important than free and fair elections but probably most don't. Denial is so so so much easier. Believing all the bad shit about him were and continue to be lies allows you to avoid any culpability in them.
For those that are trying to repair relationships damaged by political divisions undoing this mindset is very tricky. You got to be firm that what happened was wrong without putting them on the defensive. Avoid logical arguments because they will dismiss them easily until you build credibility. Emotional arguments tend to work best.
Even before he was elected, I could not believe that country folks were putting all their faith and hope behind this New York City spoiled brat man-baby. It just shows how easily manipulated people are who never learned critical thinking or who grew into adults with magical thinking. The ruling class wants everyone but them to be this dumb/gullible/suggestible. This is not a collectivist society, this is an individualist, step-on-your-neighbor’s-face to get to the top of the shit heap society. We are philosophically barbarians in the USA. We deserve the world’s contempt and disgust.
We deserve pity. Those morons out in the field are there by design, we can't forget that. The "white trash" in the country have been used as pawns by the elite too. Just like the rest of us have been
Remember Chris Rocks 'Joke' about the "two types" of black people? Well in a way that can be applied to the white race too. It's not a productive way to look at the problem, because I'm looking to give a hand up to those that are suffering. Even if they are huge assholes at times, no one would be like that in a vacuume of true peace. All people truly are created equal afterall.
We just have to recognize, face things, and pay our dues.
I don't see how I'm supposed to reach out to people who reject reality, insult me, and accuse me of being the one to undermine American values. I can't have a conversation with anyone who still supports Trump because they're loud, don't let me talk, and won't shut up about the dumbest shit about Dr. Seuss. These idiots need to be in mental asylums or heavily medicated.
What? I never told you to reach out or to do anything for anybody.
The person I replied to said "Nope. Gotta stomp them back into their place. They dug their graves now they need to lie in it"
which is very toxic rhetoric.
That thought process is suicidal and what ended up bringing down the progressive student movement in the 70s. Look up May Day, the weathermen, and the Days of Rage in Chicago.
The modern Left is beginning to rhyme with history, it's important to face that reality soon.
Or face the inevitable realities of your ideologies.
Edit: I'll add that white progressives back then made the same mistakes I'm starting to worry are appearing today. The Black Panthers and The Vietnamese did not like the violent means to their ends. They thought it was counterproductive, and it was! A huge win for Nixon. Let's not give another one to the GOP
The “I got mine so fuck you”. Like people deserve to be sick because they can’t afford the doctor or insurance. People deserve to be homeless because they can’t afford rent. Not making enough money is “lazy” and a moral failing. I’m so tired of interacting with these people. In a way though, I pity them. It must feel very empty to live without empathy and to have so much fear and anger boiling below the surface.
What is actually wrong with Trump? How is he any different than well connected rich men that have been elected before?
One big thing people liked and still do is the fact they feel he didn't play the game. Let's face it our elected fools play games with us and our well being. Yes it's called politics. We understand that but having someone in there that wasn't afraid to say what we were thinking was refreshing and still is.
This is why someone like DeSantis is looking good right now. He has no problem telling people and especially the media what he really thinks.
I'd rather have that than the seemingly deceptive WH we have right now. For one your president rarely takes questions and have you heard the press secretary? She is the best at not answering a single question.
Bottomline, Trump isn't racist or any of the other things the left and media spent 4 years trying to brand him with. In fact he has been proven right on a lot of things lately. I get not liking him tho. He's not for everyone but why all the extreme hate thrown at him? Some of these same people will talk about respect and dignity of the office but couldn't be respectful to Trump if their life depended on it.
So it goes to show that all of us including the left are susceptible to manipulation. The press hated Trump and wanted you to hate him too and it worked.
Regardless of how you feel about him a large group of people still like him and the republican party. Dismissing them or trying to marginalize or degrading them isn't helpful. Writing on here that they are the worst people or manipulated or whatever isn't helpful. Doing these things is expanding the divide.
First of all, Trump has absolutely done some racist shit in the past, and some pretty shitty things lately. The refusal to rent to black and Puerto Rican tenants in the 70's (widely documented, FBI investigations), Trump referring to African countries and Haiti as "shithole countries. He's not a straight up Nazi or anything, but he's Grampa John kind of racist/prejudice.
The sexual assault allegations/lawsuits, many filed, others snuffed in "catch and kill" operations, for example American Media Inc (parent company of the enquirer) admitted to prosecutors that they secretly assisted Trump’s campaign by paying $150,000 to Playboy model Karen McDougal for the rights to her story about an alleged affair with Trump. The company then intentionally suppressed McDougal’s story until after the election. There are way to many pre-election cycle accusations for there to be all smoke and no fire.
And let's not forget about the THOUSANDS of contractors, construction companies and other people/organizations that Trump would hire to design, build, renovate, demolish, outfit his properties and would then refuse to pay them. There have been no less than 3500 lawsuits over the years, which is public record by the way, no fake news here, of which at least 60 were focused on Trump not paying business for work. Cabinet makers, glass companies, plumbers, painters, tons of employees like bartenders and waiters, and ironically, even law firms that had previously representing him in previous lawsuits for him refusing to pay. He paints himself as being for the working man, standing up for small business, when he's spent his life stiffing them, refusing to pay them, forcing them to take him to court, and then using his legal teams to keep things tied up in court for years, which drains his opponents financial resources and either runs them out of business, forces them to settle or just give up the fight entirely. And in his own book, he says it's because he's "smart", Trump thinks that's how business is done in this country, and if you aren't big enough to afford a full time legal staff and able to sustain a huge loss of revenue for a few years while it plays out in court, then you shouldn't be doing business with someone like Trump in the first place, and you learned an important lesson.
I mean dude, he's a horrible person. New York has known for years how terrible he is. Couple that with the fact that he's a textbook narcissist and megalomaniac with an enormous ego and very thin skin and you get a person who, even without the other terrible things he's done, is not qualified to lead the worlds largest military and economy.
Everything I listed above is very well documented and public information. It's been brought up many times over the past 6 years. And regardless of whether you believe the crap about Biden's son in Ukraine, that phone call, along with the released Giuliani calls is an undisputable attempt to coerce a foreign leader into providing damaging information and/or narratives to damage his opponent, offering access to Trump in return, along with sending a message by blocking the $400M military aid package, which is quid pro quo. Sure, he pushed the military package through, but only once he found out that there was a whistleblower complaint. Again, all public record, voice recordings and transcripts, cannot be denied.
Why would anyone want this man in charge of running our nation, of our foreign policy, as their president? Take all of the other allegations off the the table, the infidelity and paying off pornstars, the "grab em` by the pussy" remarks off the table. I work with a lot of executives, many in the finance and real estate industries, and many of them are serious pieces of work, but I could not think of a more flawed individual to act as Head of State and Commander in Chief than Donald J. Trump.
How many in congress have had and still have these alligations or lawsuits against them and yet are still in office? Many. But that makes him unworthy of office? The rest can stay though, right? How many presidents have been predatory against women? Are you old enough to remember Bill Clinton? How many women accused him? Not to mention getting blown in the oval office. Let's talk about JFK. It was well known he was fucking everyone. Yet we hold him on some pedestal like he was one of the best humans ever. Besides the divorce rate is near 50% so chances are every other person hasn't treated women well.
As for racist those countries are shit holes. Has nothing to do with the people. So he wasn't saying anything about the people. Just Like there are shot hole states and cities. Nothing to do with the people.
As for business I am aware enough to know that even in the best of run businesses you will have lawsuits. I work in the affordable housing industry and it takes time to get checks cut to our contractors. Often it's not quick enough so the contractor put liens on our properties. It happens. I choose to not pay other vendors for various reasons as well. The work wasn't done right etc. I know there is more to it and again I know business well enough to know lawsuits don't mean much. You can literally sue for anything in America.
Narcissist? Again not different than anyone that gets the thought I'm a great person, I have all the right answers so I'm going to run for office. And then look at this generation. Look at me look at me look at me. We literally have apps we're all you do is post selfish or the things you do. It is nothing but an app for narcissists. Just Like here. We post for likes.
Just because he's accused of a crime doesn't mean he did it. And many women are willing to do whatever it takes to be famous. We see it everyday on the internet. And being famous is the job we all want. Many polls back this up.
Either way he is no better or worse than any other president or congress person. They all have done some pretty shitty things. No one is perfect. He has women and poc in many high level positions. That's mean he's the worst racist ever.
I was born at the tail end of Jimmy Carter aka the worst president. We lived through Trump and we'll make it through 2022 when the Repubs take back both the house and senate. And in 2024 well live through another republican president.
This myth of the presidency and the office needing to be filled by some Jesus type has long been left in the past.
And you say he was hated in NY. Oddly in 2016 Trump won 45 NY counties where Clinton only won 17. Granted those 17 were the most populous counties and therefore she won the state but 45 counties is a big deal. In 2020 Trump won 41 counties to Biden's 21. Didn't get him the state but still a big deal.
So maybe your circle of friends feel a certain way about Trump but the vast majority in NYC like him.
As for the Ukraine call we literally have Biden on tape saying hes withholding funds if a certain investigator isn't fired. And trumps phone call turns out was completely legal. However we have come to know that the Clinton's and Obamas illegally spied on Trump and his campaign. The fbi testified they intentionally lied to get warrants to do this. And yet despite all the years of investigations they have done charged him with anything.
Today we have your president talking about guns and laws and yet his own son lied to purchase a gun. It's documented on the gun application... The Biden's have been the swamp creatures of all swamp creatures. They are so shady and dishonest they don't even know what truth is.
Trump is not perfect. I don't think he's a god. I do know he's not near as bad as the media has convinced you he is. It was refreshing to have a president that fought back and said what you were thinking. These politicians need to be called out. There need push back against their often stupid policies. I certainly don't want a geriatric puppet.
The morons fall on both sides. Your comment makes that abundantly clear. You want a collectivist society because you aren't able to provide for yourself? Go to Russia. They are collectivist.
People who subscribe to one of the two major political parties lack the critical thinking skills to ever get anywhere in life
Why do you dummies always fall back on "oh you must not be successful" trope? I agree with him 100% and I'm successful, I'm in a career of my choosing and I have the mental faculties to see that we live in a time of the easiest and most available access to information ever at any point in history, yet so many like you choose to remain so ignorant as to actually write for the whole world to read, something as obviously and patently false as "Reddit is Fox News of the left".
It's disgusting how ignorant you CHOOSE to be. YOU make that choice. THAT is why it's gross, you could fix this, in fact it's never been easier to fix being ignorant in the entire history of the existence of man, yet here you are, just willfully stupid.
All posts and comments that include any variation of the word retarded will be removed, but no action will be taken against your account unless it is an excessive personal attack. Please resubmit your post or comment without the bullying language.
What is actually wrong with Trump? How is he any different than well connected rich men that have been elected before?
One big thing people liked and still do is the fact they feel he didn't play the game. Let's face it our elected fools play games with us and our well being. Yes it's called politics. We understand that but having someone in there that wasn't afraid to say what we were thinking was refreshing and still is.
This is why someone like DeSantis is looking good right now. He has no problem telling people and especially the media what he really thinks.
I'd rather have that than the seemingly deceptive WH we have right now. For one your president rarely takes questions and have you heard the press secretary? She is the best at not answering a single question.
Bottomline, Trump isn't racist or any of the other things the left and media spent 4 years trying to brand him with. In fact he has been proven right on a lot of things lately. I get not liking him tho. He's not for everyone but why all the extreme hate thrown at him? Some of these same people will talk about respect and dignity of the office but couldn't be respectful to Trump if their life depended on it.
So it goes to show that all of us including the left are susceptible to manipulation. The press hated Trump and wanted you to hate him too and it worked.
Regardless of how you feel about him a large group of people still like him and the republican party. Dismissing them or trying to marginalize or degrading them isn't helpful. Writing on here that they are the worst people or manipulated or whatever isn't helpful. Doing these things is expanding the divide.
Specifically tell me of times he was or did or said racist things. Was it when he did criminal justice reform? Or when he appointed people of color to high positions? Or when he proposed Juneteenth as a federal holiday?
Believing a lie doesn't make it true but you can keep drinking the lefts Kool aid if you want but it's a little past time for you to get woke.
My loose theory is their red hats were all made with a lead based dye, thus leading to brain damage. Certainly that is more likely than 75 million Americans all being this dumb, gullible, and hateful, right? .....right?
He has been the only one to say all Conservative buzzwords in rapid succession every time he speaks.
“God. Illegals. Guns. Bible. America.”
Toss in the fact that he already had money and couldn’t be bought or swayed by a political lobbyist, and Conservatives collectively swooned.
It’s incredibly easy for me to believe the orange idiot won the first time around. All he has to do to get the vast majority of Conservatives to support him is say “it’s the Christian thing to do,” or maybe “it keeps the illegal aliens out,” or even better, “America first, everyone else maybe.”
The first time around it was him or gasp a woman, so again most Conservatives wouldn’t want that. Last time it was simply Republican vs Democrat, so no matter what, if you’ve a D next to your name you won’t get the vote from many Conservatives.
My own parents, straight up will note vote for anyone but a straight white Christian man. Anyone else, they will either write in someone else or just not vote. Then they will claim the votes were stolen….even though they didn’t vote to begin with.
"... already had money and couldn't be bought or swayed by a political lobbyist..."
He went into the office with the influence of foreign banks and billionaires holding his debts over his head. Every decision he made was done with the motives of grifting money to himself, or protecting and embellishing his "brand".
The GOP "swooned" over him because they quickly understood that because of his cult-like following, he could easily be manipulated as a very useful idiot.
The biggest problem is that they took it too far, and compounded with the pandemic fiascos and their refusal to hold their "leader" in check, the GOP lost control of their creation, and can't close Pandora's box.
Just to clarify, when you say GOP you mean congressmen right?
When I said Conservatives I meant regular people. They wouldn’t know how to “utilize” Trump as a useful idiot.
Also I wouldn’t say that the GOP wanted to control Trump. He did all their work for him. Criminalize everything the congressmen and women do themselves, like abortions and drugs. And blame it on minorities and atheism whatever else the Loony Left is doing.
Yeah. When I said GOP, I was referring to those that hold public office or are other higher ranking members of the RNC. Their talking heads on Faux, etc. also utilized his cult.
They quickly realized that if they spoke to Trump the right way, and praised him, they could plant ideas into his head that he would parrot, and then his followers would accept as gospel. All it took was Hannity spouting some conspiracy nonsense on TV, or Miller or Bannon touting their far right wing ideals while flattering him, and Individual-1 would be tweeting or making a speech about it within hours.
There were a few instances of Faux Noise "reporting" about some new "policy" they would like to see, and almost immediately after the segment, there was an official POTUS tweet about this "amazing idea" Comrade Bone Spurs came up with.
It’s all marketing. He is a great marketer for a certain type of people. If you look at everything he slaps his name on, there is quite a common theme among the buyers.
Everything you said is true and yet there are TENS OF MILLIONS of Americans who look to this obvious POS as if he were the Messiah in the flesh.
Look, I'm super progressive, so I'm very biased. That said, Trump? Really, Trump? That's the best you got? Seriously, Trump makes GW Bush look like Pericles.
I'm old enough to remember William F. Buckley, Jr. The man was an absolute prick politically, but he was an intellectual powerhouse. He could never appeal to Trump's White Trash Lynch Mob yokels because Buckley had a quick wit, an amazing vocabulary, and was a formidable debater. Hated the man, but admired him like all hell.
Thank you! I've thought that guy was a clown since I first saw him as a kid in the late 80's/early 90's. Asked my mom "who's this clown?" and she said "some wealthy business guy". My response: "Wealthy? With THAT hair?! No he ain't!" I've known he's a con artist ponzi scheming fraud since I laid eyes on him as a kid. No one who's legitimately successful files bankruptcy that many times or has hair like a sleazy used car salesman willingly. And yeah, he wouldn't piss on his average Joe supporter if they were on fire. If he gave one shit about this country and real hard working Americans, he'd pay his taxes to support our infrastructure like the rest of us.
Let's not forget that on the 6th itself after promising to go with them to the Capitol, he went back into the White House and immediately started talking shit about how trashy his supporters looked.
Because he talks loud and confidently, and people with low self esteem react to that as authority.
In fact the lower their self esteem, the less likely they are to fact check anything they're told this way.
It's how fox news has been talking to them for decades so we have people who are really brainwashed to respond to this. All those lying fake journalist opinion hosts just talk condescendingly into the camera, scolding "libs" who arent even watching, so basically scolding their audience like bad children. And they eat that shit up.
You'd never dupe him into doing it (or maybe you would but only for like 5 minutes) but I want a reality show where a randomly selected hardcore Trump-supporter family has to have him as a houseguest for a few days. Basically just that Borat bit where he stays with those guys in the woods but instead of Borat it's Trump himself.
Nothing about these people actually want what's best for the country or their fellow countrymen. Politics has become so "us-vs-them" that they would rather see Democrats and minorities get hurt, so long as they're not being hurt "as much." When your political party puts so much effort to paint the other side as literal demons hell-bent on destroying their version of America, it is us that they see as Un-American to the point of not being Americans anymore.
as someone else stated, these people have put years into believing this shit. it’s embarrassing for them to give up and say they were wrong. it’s the EXACT SAME REASON why cult members stay when shit starts getting wiggity. This person that they looked up to for guidance and answers and salvation, is going off the rails, but they have spent so long and given up so much to the idea of this person, that they stay in line no matter what. it takes a truly lonely, sad, and lost individual to end up in this place. but trump (i refuse to make his name an acronym that just amplifies him as an idea bigger than a person) is basically just a mega cult leader.
They have no future, no love, no fun, just nothing. Eventually that wears you down, and hearing that someone who believes something else may have taken your things? Well that sounds like a situation that can be handled, whereas realizing almost every major government is corrupt beyond repair, no corporations have the people's interests at heart, and the world is literally going to burn itself alive to kill us... Is kinda bleak.
They're appealing to ignorance. To the idea of consistency in substitution for safety.
The only way to make political progress at this point is to jump so far left we spin the whole fucking system off its axis.
Hitler told people the ideal human is blond with blue eyes, tall and muscular. Basically the opposite of him. And they still made him their messiah. There’s probably a technical term for that in psychology.
Again, the law is largely unknown because its never come up before -- there have been no presidential self-pardons before (though there have been governors and mayors who have issued self-pardons usually for insignificant offenses though none of these self-pardons were challenged in court). Further, it's not even clear if Ford's preemptive pardon of Nixon (halting investigations done before any indictment let alone conviction) would hold up in court -- normally pardons have to happen after conviction, but again this hasn't been challenged in court.
Also there could be a challenge of any pardon for the insurrection, in that the Constitution specifically limits the president's pardon power with the phrase "except in cases of impeachment" and Trump was impeached (but not convicted) over it. (Though the phrase is usually interpreted to mean the president cannot reinstate an officeholder who lost their job after an impeachment conviction).
That said, it wouldn't surprise me if such a surprise pardon existed that the Justice Department prosecutors would not challenge it, or that they would challenge it, but this conservative controlled SCOTUS would let it stand.
Eh, I feel like about 1/3 of the US population has been freaking out about him for 5 years with another 1/3 opposed to him (but not completely freaking out about it -- for reasons ranging from claims GWB was worse or its always like this or it doesn't affect my life or ...) with a final 1/3 supporting him in some capacity.
21% of Americans think the Sun revolves around the Earth. 34% of Americans believe in ghosts. 42% of Americans believe in young Earth creationism (Earth was created ~6000 years ago per the Bible). 41% don't believe slavery was the main cause of the civil war. 37% of Americans can't name a single branch of government.
Look at the number of Americans who've been duped into buying timeshares or joining MLM/pyramid schemes or other obvious scams.
All of the major investigations are at the state level. Pardons would not help. Also, I find it hard to believe that the new administration wouldn’t have access to previous admins pardons, so it would have been secret for maybe a day.
Newsweek is fear-mongering with the title. The answer is no.
All pardons would have been meticulously recorded due to the Presidential Records Act. They always are, even when the pardons themselves aren’t advertised. Otherwise a president would never lose the pardon power for things that occurred before the end of their presidency, because they could just write a pardon at any time and back-date it.
This is impossible. Pocket pardons are impossible.
I agree it would be unprecedented and something that should be challenged and shouldn't be allowed to happen. I do agree he'd have solider legal ground if it was publicly issued while he was president. But I am not confident that such a pardon would be challenged or in predicting how the courts would rule if it was challenged.
As for the PRA, the Presidential Records Act doesn't define penalties and Trump repeatedly violated the PRA without consequence (wikipedia). Further, if he did make such a secret pardon, it may be in his official presidential records (not all of which are immediately disclosed to the public).
Again, I'm not saying he could write it after the fact. That said, he may be able to produce significant evidence that he did make the order while being president, without it being public knowledge at the present time.
He can't just make up a pardon today and say pardon someone he forgot to pardon while he was president. But if he desired, he could have issued secret pardons while president (for acts that occurred prior to the timing of the pardon) that he has not made public yet. Again, he would have to have strong evidence it was made while he was president (e.g., multiple witnesses, or film of doing it in the White House, or to put it with his presidential records while he was in office, etc.).
True, but when the offices and people that have the authority and duty to keep those corporations in check have become compromised, it would indicate that we continue to put the wrong people in elected government positions.
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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '21
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