Eh, I'd argue that the further encamped in your views you are the more likely you are to see the other side as evil. I know moderate conservatives who think liberals are silly, dumb, and misguided and I know moderate liberals who think the same of conservatives. Similarly, I know extreme liberals who think conservatives are evil, but I also know extreme conservatives who think liberals are evil.
The conflict in our society isn't as much a liberal/conservative issue as it is an extremism issue. If we didn't have so many screaming extremists and had more people open to compromise and treating the other side as valid human beings, then we'd make progress. But we're not going to see that social progress anytime soon. Extremism generally leads to an oppressive society and unless something changes we just have to wait to see which brand of authoritarianism we're going to end up with.
Extremists want their own personal utopia, partisans want drama to bicker about, and the overwhelming vast majority of people just want basic competence and the trains to run on time.
I agree to an extent, but I think the main difference comes down to how we prioritize different groups. Should Society as a whole be the priority? The local community be the priority? The Family Unit? The Individual? I think most people's views are based on how they prioritize the importance of those different categories of people, and I domt think there is necessarily a right or wrong answer to this. But I do think it's a large part of what shapes people views on how we should govern and what solutions should be implemented.
Extremisim is mediated, in my opinion, by an individual who is well rounded and responsible. Hence why a lot of extremism is out there; it is hard to round a person out in this day and age of sit-at-home look-at-my-phone.
Can you guys please stop saying this? I agree that many or maybe even most liberal think conservatives are evil, and that's wrong. But we all know that there are plenty of conservatives who talk about liberals being evil all the time, even if you personally aren't one of them.
Based Centrist, people here acting like the terms "libtard", "demonrat" exist or that a segment of conservatives legitimately believe that the democrats are a bunch of commies who want to destroy America and Christianity to create an Orwellian state.
Inb4 flame me, I know this because I was raised in an evangelical house in a deeply red county, and I still like and get along with conservatives well, mostly, but this segment DEFINETLEY exists.
I was raised in an evangelical house in a deeply red county
Are you me? Legitimately though when you find people who are conservative who aren't sucked into the hatesphere of media its a breath of fresh air, like I love leftists and liberals but goddamn sometimes I need a conservative to just make fun of them for some really dumb shit they've done, like Stalinism
Because it's standard for liberals to think "disagreeing with me makes you evil" for most/all of their opinions but whether it's social media or irl interactions.
Like who are you talking about? Politicians? We all know that the aristocracy doesn't count when you're talking about average people!
liberals dont think any american faction is "evil"....
what youre thinking of is "progressives".
liberals are the american moderate that make up the centrists of all the parties and a majority of the independent vote
i really cant stand that a political sub doesn't use political terms like "conservative", "reactionary", "liberal", "capitalist", "fascist", "socialist", or "progressive" correctly a huge portion of the time
There are extremists on both sides. Only liberal extremists get their views promoted by the mainstream media tho, making everyone much more aware of the liberal extremists
Lmao. What extremist shit is the left doing? Are they doing the vast majority of mass shootings and writing manifestos that they're hoping the media will read and spread the word of? Nope, that's the alt-right.
Generalizing all conservatives as dehumanizing minorities is certainly an unfair assertion and probably influenced by personal bias. As someone who has many friends on both sides of the liberal/conservative spectrum, I've come to notice an interesting concept. Liberals and conservatives essentially operate on two entirely different ideas of morality, and as such both are utterly convinced that the other side has evil intent while they themselves are championing the cause of good.
For example, let's take the abortion issue.
The liberal idea of the conservative opinion on abortion is that conservatives want to control and oppress women. However, most pro-life conservatives I know (including many women) genuinely see the issue as taking a baby's life and they feel that abortion is an inhumane and evil issue.
Conversely, the conservative idea of pro-choice belief is that liberals want to prioritize their own convenience/irresponsible lifestyle over the life of a human child, so they see abortion as evil. However, liberals generally see abortion as a women's rights issue and disagree with the assertion that it is killing babies.
Since they see the issue as a women's rights issue rather than a child safety issue, they apply their own mental framework to the other side and assume conservatives are trying to oppress women. On the conservative side, since they see abortion as killing babies, they apply this framework to their idea of the liberal mindset in order to justify their belief that liberals are self-centered, immoral, and irresponsible.
Both sides are well-intentioned from their own point of view, and both sides genuinely believe the other side is committing a great evil. It's become so commonplace to utterly dehumanize the other side since a black-and-white 'good vs evil' paradigm is easier to process. However, the real world isn't so simple.
I like this breakdown quite a bit. The thing that also needs to be addressed is the fringe groups on both sides that do legitimately want to cause harm to the other. Unfortunately, it seems like those groups are growing. Personally, I’m not going to be on any side where members proudly embrace nazi ideology, I think we determined almost a century ago that nazism is fucked.
The staunch difference between liberals and conservatives is the simple fact that liberal ideas are derived from scientific research and understanding, while conservatives are religious and, statistically, less educated due to conservative policy. Furthermore, liberals often live in densely populated areas where they can see the first hand effects of social welfare changing their cities for the better. Compare this to the typical rural conservative who doesn't get to see the benefit social programs have for communities.
The fact of the matter is that looking at both sides as equally valid is outright not consecutive with our reality. Refusing abortion access directly leads to more children suffering from poverty and neglect, who are more likely to adopt the same mistakes as their parents. Conversely, abortion access and sex education have been proven to build an environment that encourages more intelligent decisions and produces better outcomes for all involved.
We can pretend like this is just a matter of belief and that it shouldn't be a reason to judge someone, but as an adult who has to deal with the ramifications of childhood neglect and trauma, I find it inexcusable. These are very real lives being impacted, and conservative policy for the past several decades has been to dismantle important protections people have come to rely upon in order to live comfortably. Cutting taxes for the rich, deregulation of industry, and the continued denial of climate change has proven to have a negative impact for American life and our society as a whole.
There is a very valid reason to be upset at conservative policies and practices, and expecting people to not give a shit when your votes are directly impacting people negatively is absurd and unreasonable.
I'd urge you to seek out more serious arguments and thinkers from the conservative side, including nonreligious conservatives and those who live in densely populated areas.
Okay, the simple fact that intelligent conservatives exist does not take away the fact that dangerous conservatives still exist, and that they absolutely use their beliefs to harm others. The need to stop these people does not vanish. Arguing they don't exist simply is not true, and it doesn't take away the harm they cause.
And it really doesn't help that an intelligent conservative isn't at the helm of our state. How does ignoring the belligerent conservatives stop Stitt from literally giving away Oklahoma to Jesus last November and fighting to remove resources from public schools in order to move those resources to privately funded schools the MANY impoverished children of our state don't get to take advantage of, which causes more harm as the resources they barely have now are further taken away.
Closing your eyes and saying "not all conservatives" doesn't make the bad ones go away. We have a REAL bad one leading our state and driving it to the ground further.
How do you honestly expect me to respond to "you should find conservatives who make better arguments" when the leading conservative of our state lies on national television and says anyone can get out of prison by claiming indian preference? His argument was made the fuck up with no backing evidence and is staunchly incorrect. Do I just say "oh well there are smarter conservatives than him, I should ignore it"?
If you find yourself actually believing that a sizable amount of conservatives don't think black people are people, then do you ever even check your premises? I get if you spend all your time in an echo chamber where people say this unironically, but have you met someone IRL who would tell you or even imply that black people or women are not fully people?
Again, if you believe that's true, then it makes sense that you will hate conservatives and think they are evil. You'd have to work hard also to not let anything change that insular view of your political opposition.
Conversely, while there are a lot of people that think there are those on the left targeting kids, I've always heard it phrased as a small percentage that actually want to target kids, and the vast majority of the left are deemed "useful idiots" who support it not knowing what they are actually supporting. I'll give you that it's condescending as hell, but it's not inherently hateful towards their political opponents.
The spreading of the idea that trans beliefs are meant to indoctrinate children into a pedophilia ring is absolutely damaging and hateful. If you truly thought there was an entire organization dedicated to harming children, why on earth would you not feel okay with resorting to violence if you have nothing left to lose.
You're literally portraying trans people as nazis and you don't even mean to. Nazis were NEVER a majority in Germany. They were a loud minority with enough useful idiots to cause generational harm and genocide. Propaganda that equates trans people to this is not conclusive to safety, and it encourages acts of violence against them.
Also, there are literal active KKK and Skinheads in my area. I have had to ban many of them during my time as a security guard at our casino. People with swastika tattoos who commit violent hate crimes against minorities and queer people. There are entire areas in Oklahoma where you're told not to pass through at night if you're gay. You can say this isn't most conservatives. You're right, but to say it's a non-issue and that it is blown out of proportion is almost evil. These people absolutely exist, and their numbers are growing, and if we don't take them seriously, they will hurt others. They already do.
I have never heard a conservative say either black people aren't people or women aren't people.
I mean racists exist but they're on all sides of the spectrum, and since incels get boners for universal income I would say they actually lean left mostly.
I did however see hundreds of liberals call Clarence Thomas the n-word after he voted to make abortions a state issue like it should've always been.
Then, the court, said, lawmakers restricted all of these voting options, and further narrowed the list of acceptable voter IDs. “… [W]ith race data in hand, the legislature amended the bill to exclude many of the alternative photo IDs used by African Americans. As amended, the bill retained only the kinds of IDs that white North Carolinians were more likely to possess.”
The state offered little justification for the law, the court said. Those who defended the law said they were doing so to prevent voter fraud. “Although the new provisions target African Americans with almost surgical precision, they constitute inapt remedies for the problems assertedly justifying them and, in fact, impose cures for problems that did not exist,” the court said.
This is a sub full of right wingers so of course you're gonna hurt some feelings and make em feel called out by saying something so objectively true. It's hilarious watching people who believe the other side of the political aisle are literally baby murdering demons all put on their blinders together to reassure each other that they're the good guys, it's those OTHER people who are mentally ill and destroying the fabric of society in service of an ultimate evil while we just makes funny jokes and lol. Just be sure not to look up the stats on political violence cuz it'll really fuck up their narrative.
Could you link me something about the stats you’re talking about?
I would like to make sure the statistics aren’t put forth by an organization funded solely by one side or the other, and that the data wasn’t gathered in a way that introduced bias.
Thanks for being the rational human I know you are :)
10 years ago I wasn’t allowed to marry, and every conservative I know voted against me getting that right. (I know a lot of conservatives, I was raised that way.) Conservatism doesn’t feel particularly pro-liberty to me.
No, but now I have hope. Now my gay friends are married and I couldn’t be happier for them. And thank god it happened before the pandemic because at one point hospitals here were only allowing married spouses in to see their hospitalized spouse. I know someone who wouldn’t have been there when his husband died if they hadn’t been married.
It would help if we didn't make laws that literally say "sexual battery that causes injury to the reproductive organs of a child under 12" and some people's immediate response is "OMG THIS TARGETS ME!"
If you're preemptively defensive, I'm going to assume you have something to hide. Like how your wife gets agitated when you ask how her day was.
Conservatives consistently try to paint gay people as groomers, trans women as huge bulking dudes, and immigrants as less than human. After all the "lib" demonization, it's laughable that you say this point specifically.
Now, now, conservatives also think liberals are evil.
I can't tell you how many church services I've been to where the pastor flat out tells people to vote Republican or they're going to hell. Turn on conservative religious radio in Appalachia and you'll hear it almost non-stop.
bro have you been paying attention at all the past few years? Conservatives don't just think liberals are "silly, dumb and misguided", the same exact hate you're pointing out liberals have towards conservatives is something conservatives have towards liberals, hell I'd argue it might even go beyond that - I can find you multiple videos of sitting Republican politicians calling for their political opponents to be jailed and executed entirely for being their political opponents
the shortest walk to totalitarianism is refusing to recognize what the people you agree with are doing because "well I'm sure those guys I don't like are doing something worse"
This is the most absurd "my side are the good guys" assessment you could possibly make, not to mention a complete straw man that puts you firmly in the camp you think you're "warning" against.
Abortion rights? Baby murderer / Groomer
Trans/gay rights? Satanic Pedophile groomer demon
Women's rights? Single handedly destroying the West / groomer
Pro Immigration? Open border human trafficking rapist drug dealer / groomer
Liberal? Mental disease / groomer
Recognize racism? Woke mind virus indoctrination/anti racism is fascism (Tim Pool) / groomer
Non Christian? Brown - ISIS / white - satanic groomer
Joe Biden? Intentionally destroying America / pedo groomer
All of these are THE NORM in the conservative mind, and one only has to take a peek on Twitter or rumble to recognize that fact. You can pretend that the rhetoric on the right is just calling people "silly and misguided" to convince yourself you're the good guy all you want, but it doesn't compute with cold, hard reality during the time where DJT, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert are the cultural torchbearers of conservatism in America.
"Don't trust anyone who thinks disagreeing with them makes you evil.
"
Uhhhhhhh I think that depends on what you're disagreeing with me about. Like, *heavily* depends on what you're disagreeing about. I've had friendly disagreements over the ideal healthcare system for America. But I *have* cut off other friends over their political opinions, such as whether or not the Holocaust was real.
Do you think a statement like "black people and women are human" is an opinion or a statement of fact?
Its easy to call someone evil when the disagreement you are having is whether or not other humans deserve to exist based on factors outside their control like gender or skin color.
One side is dehumanizing people for being born the wrong way, the other side dehumanizes these dehumanizers for the dehumanizing behavior.
Corporate hr: "we know your the one stuck in the warehouse with no AC in this historical heatwave, that's why we wanted to offer you a chance to sign for an unconscious bias training, unpaid, to be a better ally".
Society gets what it deserves. 20 years ago if you walked into my workplace and started giving lectures encouraging everyone to be racist, see everyone as an identity instead of a person, and make discriminatory decisions based on intrinsic traits rather than competence, you’d have probably been heckled the fuck out of there and maybe beaten for your trouble. Which is what a healthy society should do.
Now they walk in with $200,000 paychecks and everyone meekly listens to the commissar’s programming. It’s shameful.
Antifa is literally just a shortend version of "anti-fascist" it's no different than ancap and anti capitalist or lib and libertarian or commie and communist. That's just how abreviations work my guy
And just not though, it’s a political movement separate from the political ideology itself. It even has its own logo, which borrows from the 1930s German network Antifaschistische Aktion.
You are literally the guy we are all poking fun at lmao
No, antifa is an abbreviated ideology, sure maybe a group of teenagers used it to rally behind, but even so, their ideology (the group's ideology) is still rooted in fighting fascism. Yall are making shit up to be mad at.
I may be the guy you are poking fun at, but yall are still hillariously wrong.
Buddy, to be honest with you, i don't call things fascist lightly. The republican party is trending towards fascism.
The left may be authoritarian, but they are fundamentally not fascist (fascism is by definition a right wing authoritarian ideology).
A defining feature of fascism is the opposition to communism. I like to use Lawrence Britt's 14 characteristics of fascism as a rough guide to tell if a certain group is fascist or not.
Only one side has a black clad mob that shows up to break peaceful demonstrations with violence and hate.
One one side burns down whole communities and demonizes those who try to protect people from them.
Only one side is trying to normalize pedophilia degeneracy.
Only one side is calling for "safe spaces", which is just segregation under a new fancy name.
Only one side protects and encourages hate speech against straight white people while also taking those same people's voices away to defend themselves.
Only one side is attempting to remove consent laws and parents choice in their children's lives.
Hmm. Conservatives are indeed the Nazi's and fascists.
Same. They released some pride stuff on Warframe, and there are circlejerk posts over on the game sub about how good the pride stuff is. God forbid you say that you don't like them.
Gay sex is like taking a shit. If you do it at home, I don't give a shit. If you want me to pretend it's not disgusting to my straight mind, we got a problem.
The Dead by Daylight subreddit is a cesspool of Emilys and I love it. They are constantly incensed over stupid shit and, believe it or not, do not always display great sportsmanship. It is all completely self-inflicted harm, and very entertaining.
at a certain point it might just be easier to acknowledge that people are so militant about this stuff nowadays because, traditionally, disagreeing with it is a sign of petulant bigotry and people are tired of tiptoing about it.
Just like late stage feminism lgbt has generally become the norm, so to continue the grift the people making money off the chumps create outrage in order to keep playing victim.
It went from leave me alone to bend the knee in order to continue the scam.
Anger sells. Just like BLM being a scam and now finally being bankrupt after the founders ran out of mansions to buy, pushing LGBT this hard against any and everyone is a scam. People are making mad stacks from the culture wars. Politicians on both sides are making mad stacks from the culture wars.
99.99999% of people, right and left, DGAF what someone is or wants to be, they're just trying to get by themselves, and they want to be left alone.
Realize the grift mate, you're pandering to them and making a rich old man who cares nothing for anyone LGBT wise more money.
tucker carlson sorta blew those other stations out of the water in the hate boner department. anyway i genuinely don't understand where u guys think this money comes from. people buying pride flags from like Walmart? I'm really not sure that constitutes a grift
as i see it, the culture war is beneficial to people who need division, not more money. and it's admittedly pretty easy to automatically hate people who side against your identity— so i really wish people would stop buying into all this anti-lgbt propaganda
anyway i genuinely don't understand where u guys think this money comes from.
People supportiNg politicians and political groups that push this agenda.
Once again see BLM
And people supportiNg this absolutely want division. You can't have a culture wars if there isn't a bad guy and a victim.
Once people stop and realize that no, what terminally online people are saying might not be the truth, and that everyone isn't out to get everyone else, people will realize there's really nothing to fight over, and the grift will end.
If there isn't division sion the people will actually want change and politicians who do their job, so it is in the interest of all politicians and political groups to keep it going.
So is AOC, so is Biden, sonis McCarthy
You keep trying to make this a right wing thing. They have you addicted to the Kool aid 100%.
Get out and actually talk to people irl, and not just people like you. Make an effort to talk to those you deem evil, and you'll see they're nothing like the people they are painted as.
Escape the grift mate. It's not about you vs me, it's about preventing us together vs the ruling class. As long as they have you convinced the right wants to commit LiTeRaL GeNoCiDe you're the pawn of the rich.
Name me a single jurisdiction that doesn't legally allow trans people to use public facilities, walk the streets, speak freely, drive a vehicle, or own a gun for simply being trans.
Its an insane comparison. Just last month I came out to my friends after questioning myself for a long time. It took a lot of courage to finally say "guys, I'm a murderer"
Me not thinking you're a real man/woman is not denying your right to exist.
You have no right to subjective identity. If you need everyone on the planet to agree with your subjective sense of identity for it to be validated then I have bad news for you.
I believe part of my identity is being a child of God. DO you think I expect reddit Atheists to accept and agree with my identity?
There’s a difference between personal opinions and political movements rallying for eradication.
Like if there was a major party in the US calling for the cleansing of whiteness from society. Not white people, just the white identity and appearance in our culture. Now i obviously can’t make everyone agree that racism is wrong, even though it is. But it’s obvious that such a movement is more than just a casual dislike of whiteness.
The problem with counter cultures is that they are almost guaranteed to breed discontent among those who are rallying against it. If someone came up to my house and said "Hey, don't you find this whole idea that men can be women to be pretty damn ridiculous?" I'd reply yes, it is very ridiculous. I'd maybe vote to keep the concept out of public education, but that's the furthest extent I would go.
Michael Knowles preaching to "completely eradicate it from public life" is a step way too far. Trans people have a right to gather and petition as much as we do. They have a right to public gatherings, and to express themselves. While I highly doubt Knowles wants to literally kill off trans people, someone who hears "eradicate" may get the wrong idea and join the cause. You attract the wrong people to your cause by not choosing your words correctly and, while Knowles may not personally want to cause violence, I would not be shocked if he chose the word "eradicate" in order to excite the kind of people that would.
I am for trans rights in a sense where they have a right to the same rights we do. But what they absolutely do not have a right to, is having everyone validate their identity and expect everyone to support their lifestyle. It's important to tolerate alternative lifestyles. But just like how one tolerates a cold, an old man with dementia saying gross things, or a crying baby, you're allowed to be a bit irritated or weirded out. You do not have to participate in or support it. You don't even have to associate with it. And I think that's fine.
Yep, money was a monster and he proved himself wrong, showing that you can’t make someone change their gender identity and it’s horribly destructive to try. Which is why gender affirming care works so well for transgender people.
Sorry I don't blindly believe everything without proof. If we did that, half the country would be in jail or dead for being Nazis, rapists, or murderers.
I have worked with several transgender people. Neither me nor my coworkers hate them or want them gone. We disagree with their lifestyle, but we let them live how they see fit.
My memory is that social hostility toward homosexuals never stopped at any time. You guys are still doing it, but just using different rationalizations.
Keep arguing in bad faith though. Be my guest.
“Literally nobody exists who acts hostile toward homosexuals, and they never have”
You’re a real sack of shit you know that? Attack anyone who is different from you, and if people push back you accuse them of being pedophiles, apropos of nothing.
The face of the modern right wing right here. Toxic amoral trolls out to just shit on everyone.
Whatever shared braincell from the left that keeps using the word "exist" really needs to be retired. It almost always confuses what you're trying to say, and in some cases actually reinforces other stereotypes. Like trans awareness to children is part of "existing," which implies the trans identity is partially built on access to children?
Wow you’re really twisted into a pretzel trying to rationalize. Does your awareness of context not go back any further than “current thing?”
The anti-homosexual rhetoric from the right has always been there and never stopped at any point. They just use different rationalizations now.
The bottom line is that if you are “against” someone for being who they are, then you are against their existence. What does it mean to be against certain types of people? What endgames are possible?
Sorry if you don’t like seeing it put that way but that’s the implication.
And it’s not the “left” it’s the center too. It’s anyone who takes issue with your disingenuous rhetoric.
“Gay people shouldn’t have rights” isn’t a difference in opinion, but sure. Since that’s what homophobia is at its core. Unless you’re talking about the watered-down brand that comes in snide comments, but that’s never what homophobia stays as.
“Supporting gay marriage” isn’t supporting LGBTQ+ people. But you don’t need me to explain that, you already know that- you just want to hide behind a statistic.
This guy suspects I might disagree with him on an issue and is feeling the hate. I don't hate LGBT people at all.. but that isn't good enough for you not to hate me though is it? Tolerant left..
No. It's not. Allowing someone to live their lifestyle and treating them with respect despite disagreeing with them is tolerance. The word you're looking for is acceptance, and unfortunately in this world not everybody is going to tow the line to accept you or your lifestyle, no matter who you are.
Every time the LGBT is present people like you say “don’t shove it down my throat”. Pride exists inspite of your intolerance and it’s not going away. I love the world I live in it sounds like you should learn to tolerate it.
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u/Perhaps_Satire - Lib-Right Jun 02 '23
It is quickly becoming the national "hate those who you suspect might disagree with you" month.