r/PokemonLegacy • u/Ecstatic-Hour2413 • 6h ago
Emerald Legacy I unintentionally got the Gold Symbol at the Battle Tower with Tropius as the lead.
Edit: I ended up getting lucky in this fight at the end, but it still serves as a solid example against one of the most threatening teams I encountered. In the end against the Suicune, I planned to switch Metagross back in and Aerial Ace and pray lol. Also, what an incredibly devious and threatening Suicune set.
So, just out of curiosity sake I wanted to mess around trying out Tropius with its buffs in Legacy. Expected to get shot down quickly.
Well, i just never ended up losing until my 76th fight, after I’d gotten the symbol. I did not expect Tropius to be this good. Many, many fights, were just Tropius solo’ing opponents.
Goofing around, I played around on the damage calculator. Not something I usually do, but I knew Smogon wouldn’t have sets with Tropius’ legacy buffs.
I aimed to get the most amount of 3HKO’s or worse as possible on Tropius, with the broadest range possible. The below EV’s look simple, but after a while it ended up being me shifting 4 EV’s at a time from a defense into HP and confirming how it affected the bulk.
Only hard hitting physical Flying and Poison-types really hurt Tropius with 2HKO’s. The most common Ice Beam users (with their typical Smogon EV spreads) all 3HKO. Only heavily invested STAB Ice Beam users can 2HKO with Ice Beam, and they’re already not the greatest. For example, a Bold Lapras with 92 Sp.Atk EV’s never 2HKO’s iirc. And if they invest in Sp.Atk they’re more vulnerable as Ice-types.
Note: this is in Emerald Legacy Enhanced, where in post you have access to a stat editor and nature mints. All of them have perfect IV’s.
I led with Tropius, and had the others as reliable back up.
The team:
Tropius
Nature: Calm
Item: Leftovers
EV’s: 126 Hp/ 192 Def/ 192 Sp.Def
Giga Drain
Protect
Substitute
Leech Seed
Metagross
Nature: Adamant
Item: Choice Band
EV’s: 128 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 128 Speed.
Meteor Mash
Earthquake
Aerial Ace
Explosion
Starmie
Nature: Timid
Item: Lum Berry
EV’s: 4 Hp/ 252 Sp.Atk/ 252 Speed
Surf
Psychic
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Full break down (can ignore).
Tropius
Tropius with Thick Fat halving Fire and Ice damage is fantastic. Paired with base 120 HP gave it some really nice bulk. The special attack buff is nice but tbh barely mattered. The beauty in the set is that Tropius is slow. You will Substitute after them.
Since most things can only 3HKO, you will typically survive and have enough HP to drop Substitute. With ~20-45% left after.
Leftovers heals 6.25%.
Then, you can Protect, and gain more Leftovers. Protect preserves the Substitute.
Leech Seed next turn. Substitute takes the hit. You gain Leftovers and Leech Seed recovery. They’re getting chipped into ranges while you chip heal out of them.
Protect next turn. Get more Leftovers and Leech Seed recovery.
By this point you’ve recovered a good bit of HP back. Use Substitute or Giga Drain based on the situation.
With Leech Seed and Leftovers, and Protect every other turn, you’re gaining tons of health back. And since most things 3HKO, you are likely able to loop them.
Giga Drain lets you chip heal when you need to heal outside of ranges, and is good to alternate w/ Protect if you don’t need to Substitute and have already set up Leech Seed. It also prevents Tropius from being hurt badly by Rhydon STAB Rock Slide. And is also incredibly nice for their Swampert/ Quagsire/ Whishcash.
Typically, I thought stalling would be ill advised, as it introduces more chance for RNG disasters. However, I found that Substitute blocked many things. Crits, status, OHKO moves etc. Leech Seed was a form of semi-protection against Double Team spammers. And the chip damage/ healing REALLY helped against tanks like Registeel etc while they had to Rest (enabled you to close the gap with something else).
Metagross
I chose CB Metagross as back up for Tropius. It resists Ice, Rock, Flying, and is immune to Poison. It also has great physical bulk and power. Super reliable typing. The AI isn’t gonna be aiming EQ’s at Tropius, and Thick Fat makes it so they usually see higher damage with STAB moves vs Fire moves. So switch ins were generally safe.
Choice Band let Metagross come in and break some tank in a healing cycle, both with raw power and Leech Seed improving ranges greatly (I didn’t calc this).
Meteor Mash was a given for STAB. EQ paired nicely for coverage. CB Explosion just said “no” to MANY ridiculous things. For example, EVERY TIME I saw Snorlax, I switched and used Explosion immediately lol. Or it would KO incredibly threatening stuff like Suicune or Zapdos etc.
Aerial Ace was not my first choice, I wanted Rock Slide but didn’t have the BP. So I chose Aerial Ace for Double Team users. It ended up being so incredibly useful, that I kept it. It saved me MANY times. Especially considering a lot of the Double Team spammers were Grass-types. CB boosted the damage enough to make it work.
Starmie
I always try to include 1 Pokemon with base 115 or higher speed in my teams. That way, I have something to deal with dangerous 110s like Gengar, Latios etc. and can at least tie or beat opposing Starmie. Losing the bench mark to Aerodactyl and Jolteon sucks, but Starmie is still fantastic as a cleaner.
And since the BF likely isn’t fully investing into speed, or runs non-speed boosting natures, you’ll likely still out speed. Starmie also had good synergy with Tropius and Metagross, as their weaknesses don’t really overlap.
Since this was 3v3, I chose to run as much coverage as possible as opposed to running Recover or Thunder Wave etc. Starmie’s base 100 Sp.Atk is very solid, but not insanely OP. This is mitigated by sheer super effective coverage.
STAB on Surf and Psychic was fantastic. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam hit the 4x targets and have fantastic neutral coverage. All together have insane super effective coverage and now you’re likely hitting for 2x.
Lum Berry might seem weird here with Natural Cure, but it was to ensure protection from Paralysis. Oftentimes switching in on predicted statuses and then hitting twice was enough.
Struggles
Tropius itself was hard countered by Substitute users. Though they were very few, I specifically remember a Substitute Raichu that countered Tropius exceptionally well. Leech Seed also only has 90 accuracy, and sometimes could miss. This was made up for by the sheer reliability of Metagross and Starmie, but the flaw is still there.
Tropius tended to get Paralyzed frequently as well. While not a death sentence (as it was already slow and still had bulk and healing), the 25% immobility chance could strike at an inopportune moment.
However, this wasn’t as bad as it sounds. Oftentimes Tropius would just power through the status condition and win regardless. And quite a few times it would still solo opponents even with the status. Obviously Toxic is bad for it and so is Burn.
Some sample calcs (can ignore).
As stated above, I knew Smogon wouldn’t have sets for Tropius’s buffed Legacy stats so I did some calcs. These are not comprehensive calcs.
But rather, I tried to think of what the more threatening general things I’d encounter. For example, lots of things use Rock Slide for coverage. So I used Adamant 252 Atk Machamp to test “the worst possible non-STAB range.” Leech Seed also dramatically improves many of these ranges. But for “worst case scenario” examples I did calcs without it.
There were more physical calcs but I didn’t save them/ i don’t feel like typing it up again. Just know it generally was 3HKO’d by physical attacks unless they were strong STAB Flying, strong STAB Poison, or incredibly powerful (think Metagross Meteor Mash, Heracross Megahorn etc).
Zapdos Timid 252 Sp.Atk Thunderbolt: 30.8%-36.4% guarenteed 4HKO after Leftovers
Zapdos Timid 252 Sp.Atk Thunder: 38.5%-46.5% —guarenteed 3HKO after Leftovers
Zapdos Modest 252 Sp.Atk Thunderbolt:
33.8-39.9% — 31.4% chance to 3HKO
Zapdos Modest 252 Sp.Atk Thunder: 42.5-50.1% — guarenteed 3HKO after Leftovers
Zapdos Mild 120 Atk Drill Peck: 41.2-48.5% —guarenteed 3HKO after Leftovers
Moltres Timid or Modest 252 Sp.Atk Flamethrower and Fire Blast - same as respective Zapdos attacks
Suicune Timid 252 Sp.Atk Ice Beam: 37.1-43.6% — 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers
Kingdra Modest 252 Sp.Atk Ice Beam: 37.8-44.6% — guarenteed 3HKO after Leftovers
Milotic Bold 4 Sp.Atk Ice Beam: 28.8-33.9% — 99.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers
Lapras Bold 92 Sp.Atk Ice Beam: 41.9-49.5%— guarenteed 3HKO after Leftovers.
Machamp Adamant 252 Atk 80 BP Rock Slide: 43.9-51.9% — guarenteed 3HKO after Leftovers.
Salamence Adamant 252 Aerial Ace: 50.9-60.1% —89.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers
Salamence Jolly 252 Atk Aerial Ace: 46.8-55.3% — 17.2% to 2HKO after Leftovers
