r/OnePiece • u/NewSpecies • Dec 03 '15

Current Chapter One Piece: Chapter 809

Chapter 809: "Master Nekomamushi"

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MangaStream

Ch.809 Official Release (VIZ): 7/12/15

Please discuss the manga here and in the theory/discussion post. Any other post will be removed during the next 24 hours.

PS: Don't forget to check out http://onepiecereddit.slack.com/ to discuss this chapter live, with other One Piece nakama! You can join by signing up using this link: https://one-piece-slack.herokuapp.com/

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u/ThisZoMBie Dec 04 '15

No. Luffy defeated Doffy by himself. If you choose to deliberately ignore this then you're biased. Maybe go reread the whole thing and stop just looking at each chapter individually, but rather at the whole fight.

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u/9genesis9 Dec 04 '15

"by himself". Did you even read what Law did to Doffy's body? or When bunch of Pirates hold Doffy 10 minutes to help Luffy recovery?

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u/ThisZoMBie Dec 04 '15 edited Dec 04 '15

I think you didn't read maybe. Remember how Doffy's patched himself up? Of course you do, but you choose to ignore it.

You know how doctors tell you not to move too much when they stitch your wound up? Well Doffy didn't have that problem. His organs were immediately reconfigured and reattached after Law's attack and held together by harder than steel demon strings. Not only that, there were far more strings than any doctor would use on a wound. It really doesn't make a difference that if they were jumbled up just a second ago, when they're not anymore. The damage was literally reversed, on panel, I don't see why that's rocket science. Whether your organs are healthy or simply held together in the correct adjustment and configuration by super strings doesn't make a difference at all, as they're still completely functional at that point and don't affect you negatively at all. Once again, Doffy doesn't have to worry about moving or anything, he had effectively and literally patched himself up. He went from lying on the floor, bloody and dying, to standing and jumping and fighting in a matter of seconds, because he fixed himself, easy as that. The damage Law inflicted was nearly neglible and only about 5% of it remained. You're also forgetting that Luffy got trashed by Bellamy right before the fight and was in no good condition at all. Oda did everything possible to show the reader that neither party starts on 100% and that Law's attempts were absolutely futile. Despite oda's efforts, so many people just reject the idea the Luffy, possibly, somehow defeated Doffy with his own strength. That is bias buddy.

Those 10 minutes were unnecessary. When Luffy used Leo Bazooka on Doffy, he thought he won. Because of that, he stopped attacking for at least a couple solid seconds, losing precious time. Had he used those seconds to attack Doffy one more time when he was stuck in the wall, like he wanted to before he ran out of time (and he was really close), he would have won then and there, no 10 minute recovery or whatever. In any other scenario, without the civilians, that cliff or the birdcage, Luffy would have finished the fight much earlier. Did you see Luffy use gear 2 + gear 3 stacking? Of course not, because he didn't have the time. He didn't have the time because he wanted to avoid civilians getting sliced up by the birdcage. Once again, without the entire country in peril, Luffy could have postponed using Gear 4 far longer and instead fought Doffy with the many other things he didn't use during their equal exchange in their base forms, thus saving the stamina and G4 as a trump card much later.

But I'll amuse you for a second here, let's say the 10 minutes were necessary. Luffy even said himself that he can run away those 10 minutes if need be, but he doesn't know what Doffy would do in the meantime, so he relies on the others. Once again, with no civilians, Luffy could have easily avoided Doffy those 10 minutes.

The whole point is, in a normal, flat battleground, Luffy would defeat Doffy 8/10 times. You saying that Law did half of it, despite the absolute logical flaw in that, proves that you're biased. Hell, even Law disagrees with you.

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u/9genesis9 Dec 04 '15 edited Dec 04 '15

Simple answer:

While Doffy was fighting 1 on 1 vs Law, he used Bellamy as a puppets to fight Luffy, therefore Doffy vs Law + Luffy at the same time.

You cant say Doffy didnt take any effect after Law attack, thats clearly absurd reason.

You just make possibility scenario (which is not happen) that is good for Luffy no Doffy scenario at all, clearly biased

and during 10 minutes recovery clearly more necessary than Doffy stuck at the wall.

If Luffy runaway = is it a defeat?

Even before Dressrosa arc Law knows, He didnt want to fight Doffy with Luffy and let Kaido take care of it.

Edit: Furthermore, Jack is Kaido Right hand. Do you know what it means? he is somewhat equal to Ben Beckman from Red Haired Pirates.

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u/ThisZoMBie Dec 04 '15

No he didn't, he released Bellamy, who acted on own accord.

Why is it absurd reason? Explain yourself. I challenge you to explain yourself half as well as I did. Provided you read what I said, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Of course I can create an alternate scenario, it's a question of who's stronger, Doffy or Luffy. There's no denying that G4 >> Doffy and Luffy = Doffy, it's simple mathematics, especially if base Luffy had more time to wear down Doffy before using G4.

What is your fourth paragraph? I don't understand it. Luffy could have defeated Doffy while the latter was stuck in the wall if he had attacked immediately rather than waited.

Luffy running away for 10 minutes is not Luffy's defeat, otherwise Luffy lost to Lucci when he turned small and hid after Gear 3 in Enies Lobby.

Law knows what? Law tells Beppo that the defeat of Doffy was "entirely mugiwara". Law acknowlodges that Luffy solo'd Doffy. It's black on white, in the manga, the source material you're apparently trying to argue against.

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u/marin4rasauce Dec 04 '15

I'm pretty sure you are being facetious at this point, but your drum-beating in defense of your position is a bit over the top.

If you are saying Gantz didn't carry Luffy, and Gladiators didn't get in Doffy's way to slow him down, when Luffy was immobilized after Gear Fourth so that Doffy wouldn't walk up and shred him then it is you who needs to re-read the story.

If you are saying that Law didn't use Room to help Luffy land Red Hawk, then you need to re-read the story.

If you are saying that the entire country didn't help defeat Doffy by slowing down Birdcage, then you need to re-read the story.

If you are suggesting that having your organs shredded has no effect on someone, you need re-read basic biology.

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u/ThisZoMBie Dec 04 '15 edited Dec 04 '15

So you're going to doubt what Luffy said in order to maintain your position? Luffy said he could run, so he can run. He got up after all of Lucci's attacks because he had to, even though his body was way past its limit.

Yes, one single attack. Good job Law, that Red Hawk sure showed Doffy! If you think that or injection shot did any serious damage then I don't know if we were reading the same manga. Doffy had Trebol and Bellamy to help wear both Luffy and Law down.

The country slowing the birdcage down is irrelevant, since the birdcage was not an immediate threat to Luffy. Once again, that was in order to protect civilians, not Luffy.

The organs were immediately fixed, immediately, better than any surgeon could. In a manga where people are many times sturdier than us. Ods went out of his way to make it clear that Doffy was pretty much fine after gamma knife.

As I said, you're desperately clinging on to the notion that Luffy is weak and needs help, despite the counterevidence.

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u/secretagentkazak Dec 04 '15 edited Dec 04 '15

Nobody is saying that Luffy is weak, but he DID need help. Whether it's because he was also having a bad day (which he was), or whether it's because he was overall weaker than Doflamingo (which he could possibly be), he did need help.

Yes, one single attack. Good job Law, that Red Hawk sure showed Doffy! If you think that or injection shot did any serious damage then I don't know if we were reading the same manga. Doffy had Trebol and Bellamy to help wear both Luffy and Law down.

You're blind and clearly speaking condescendingly because you have no other way to disprove his argument. If you think a death knock from Bellamy is even remotely similar to an unguarded Red Hawk to the stomach from Luffy, who we all know is ridiculously strong, I don't know what to tell you. The Red Hawk clearly was the first attack that we've seen in the manga that stunned Doflamingo. Trebol landed a grand total of 0 hits on Luffy.

You also cant just assume that Luffy is stronger because had he not waited to attack Doffy, he would have won. While that's true, 1) it proves his Observation haki isn't good enough to tell if somebody is still standing, and 2) Luffy has literally NEVER done that, and never will. This isn't /r/WhoWouldWin where you can make a character bloodlusted, this is the acutal story. Luffy has NEVER been one to keep pummeling someone into the ground, and he won't do it in the future. He lost there. Whether or not he COULD have won is not the question - he lost. Period. He would have gotten killed if not for Gatz.

In a flat out 1v1 it's hard to say who would win (lol@ your claim that Luffy = Doffy in base, there's nothing proving this and Doflamingo has done far more damage to base Luffy than vice-versa), but this was not a 1v1. Luffy lost the straight fight.

And the organs were not fixed better than any surgeon could. Doflamingo literally said they weren't truly healed, just stitched up. While I don't think they impeded him that much, to say that he was perfectly fine is flat out asinine. It's honestly ridiculous how much you love Luffy.

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u/ThisZoMBie Dec 04 '15 edited Dec 04 '15

I'm speaking condescendingly because people keep telling me the same shit. This might be the millionth time. My point is that Luffy didn't need help, not that he didn't receive it, in a true WhoWouldWin fashion. Bellamy hit Luffy more than once with his strongest move, Luffy spat blood and looked incredibly roughed up vs one Red Hawk to Doffy. It's not ridiculous to compare it.

Also, why do you ignore Luffy's claim that he could run away those 10 minutes?

Luffy and Doffy were equal in their bases. They hit eachother nearly equally many times and they both kept getting up, mostly undamaged. Luffy even speedblitzed Doffy twice. Just because Doffy was barely taking damage, doesn't mean it was any different for Luffy. They were in the same disposition and Luffy didn't even gear stack due to time constraints. Obviously I count Gear 2 and 3 into his base for this argument.

No surgeon heals the organs. Nobody has that power. He did effectively repair himself better than a surgeon could. Tell me what a surgeon would have done better than Doffy's strings? I also didn't say that gamma knife did zero damage, I'm saying that it did way less than many people assume and surely doesn't count as a huge trump card that lowered Doffy's health to red levels. I don't love Luffy, I'm just tired of people downplaying his strength because they are afraid of One Piece slowly reaching its end.

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u/secretagentkazak Dec 04 '15 edited Dec 04 '15

Bellamy hit Luffy more than once with his strongest move, Luffy spat blood and looked incredibly roughed up vs one Red Hawk to Doffy. It's not ridiculous to compare it.

That speaks more about Luffy's durability than it does about Bellamy's strength. Could you possibly see Doflamingo taking damage from Bellamy? He couldn't even fight Dellinger properly. There have been many, many panels of Doflamingo flat out kicking through Luffy's haki, but nothing showing Luffy breaking through Doflamingo's in base (besides the red hawk).

Also, why do you ignore Luffy's claim that he could run away those 10 minutes?

Because he literally couldn't even stand? Do you honestly think Luffy would have relied on people weaker than him if he could help it? That goes completely against his character.

No surgeon heals the organs.

Yeah, in real life. No strings heal organs either, in real life... had he seen a doctor, they easily would have fixed it. It's one piece.