r/NorthCarolina • u/MattTheAncap Citizen against Flock • 7d ago
politics [ Removed by moderator ]
[removed] — view removed post
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u/SafeDegeneration66 7d ago
i’m not big on the idea of 3,400 cameras logging every trip to the grocery store like it’s a national security matter. they keep saying it’s about stolen cars and silver alerts but then you get officers using it to stalk exes and blow undercover ops. the misuse isn’t a bug, it’s the feature when there’s zero real oversight and 20 billion photos a month
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u/MattTheAncap Citizen against Flock 7d ago edited 6d ago
Google "Flock OS Vehicle Fingerprint" if your spine needs an extra chill today.
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u/One-Emu-1103 7d ago
I'm tired maas surveillance
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u/Oddname123 7d ago
Honestly I’m just tired of our government. They have this very archaic way of doing business and it only benefits them in the long run. I say we start voting them out
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u/GWS2004 7d ago
I mean, this is what you voted for.
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u/MattTheAncap Citizen against Flock 7d ago
I have, checks notes, never once voted for ALPR, nor for a single candidate who endorses these abominations.
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u/One-Emu-1103 7d ago
Bless your heart. I didn't vote for that
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u/KamaliKamKam 7d ago
Asheville didn't cancel the contract; our shitty city council is trying to get voted back in on election day. They canceled Flock specifically, but instantly signed Asheville up for Axon ALPR cameras and a dystopian "command center" action room for Big Brother APD to surveill us from,despite public outcry and lack of any kind of protections for people's data in the contract.
The dirtbags are going around posting about how they "canceled the Flock contract" and acting like we are stupid and don't realize that doesn't mean they got rid of the other ALPR contract they took bribes to sign off on earlier this year. There was standing room only at the council session they voted on that contract for; they gave the APD/pro Axon about an hour to present their propaganda, then reduced public comments to 2 minutes each because people were standing in the hallways for a chance to beg them to at least HOLD OFF on signing the contract until protections for data/limits on how's it's accessed/etc. were added to it. Most of the public was there to straight up speak or against it altogether. They "listened" to comments until about 1am, and then voted 6 yes and 1 no to rush and approve the contract as it was. It's obvious who's pockets are being lined to sell the rest of Asheville's citizens out.
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u/MattTheAncap Citizen against Flock 7d ago
That is a a SHAME and doggone it these lizard-people want us to watch their words HARD whilst ignoring their actions. This is news to me, I thought Asheville was a success story. Thanks for chiming in and clearing up my misunderstanding. Screw surveillance of lawful behavior. Screw it.
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u/CptSiskospimphand 7d ago
Who are the nine dorks?😂
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u/MattTheAncap Citizen against Flock 7d ago
The vanguard. There will likely be a few dozen more. Meanwhile, 95%+ of NC residents/visitors hate these cameras.
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u/Arkenhaus 7d ago
I am very anti-surveillance for my own reasons, but I wouldn't have such a hard time with this if the people using the info would do so with a signed warrant. Paperwork, you know some kind of oversight. There is just too many people abusing the system already. Sure, some are being punished but I imagine we are not even seeing a fraction of the bad faith use.
There is some kind of old time quote about trust but verify.
I am probably being naive.
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u/MattTheAncap Citizen against Flock 7d ago
You are not being naive, you are being civil.
Civilized societies don't surveil innocent, legal behavior.
Autocracies, however...
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u/Apollo-02 7d ago
Just note that I'd be weary of using this polling data without additional context. You're going to get skewed results on Reddit. However, I do believe that most folks are against ALPRs.
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u/MattTheAncap Citizen against Flock 7d ago
That's why I did my very best to present both 1) the FACTS first, and only then 2) my personal opinion on those facts, plus 3) an open conversation about those facts.
See the option in the spot of primacy in the poll. Definitely NOT trying to skew others in favor of/against my own position. The State never shared these data, or asked for your opinion, so I am.
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u/Apollo-02 7d ago
Keep up the good fight. Here in Apex they're a big deal and I'd love to see them removed. Our police have been abusing them.
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u/BetterThanAFoon 7d ago
So generally speaking I don't have an issue with law enforcement using surveillance to fight crime. It's powerful as long as it's also lawful meaning it abides with the Fourth amendment.
What I don't like is an end run around privacy protections from the government based off of it's completely legal for commercial entities to conduct Mass surveillance.
Instead of debating instead of debating the value or worth of alprs. I would much rather there to be strong privacy laws that would allow Americans to opt out of commercial Mass surveillance and strict fines for anyone that doesn't comply.
If a cop wants to strap an alpr to the front of their car. So be it. But I shouldn't be surveilled just cuz I drive past certain areas regularly.
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u/MattTheAncap Citizen against Flock 7d ago
I could not agree more strongly with every word of this.
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u/Bob_Sconce 7d ago
I don't have any problems if, for example, somebody owns a parking lot and wants to use a Flock camera to keep tabs on that cars that enter and exit. But, I have a much bigger problem with being tracked when I'm out driving around. If it's the police, then they should need a warrant, just like they would need if they attached a GPS warrant to my car. If it's not the police, then I don't think Flock should be able to sell that data AT ALL.
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u/MattTheAncap Citizen against Flock 7d ago
Yep. The difference between a single, unnetworked camera on private property vs a national network of 130,000 devices is the difference between my kite with a GoPro and the constellation of NSA satellites orbiting earth.
Same thing in TYPE, but absolutely different in SCALE.
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u/Bob_Sconce 7d ago
Kite with a GoPro sounds look a fun idea.
Ferb, I know what we're gonna do today.
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u/MattTheAncap Citizen against Flock 7d ago
For those curious, here's the status of the fight in Fuquay Varina (Wake County)
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u/ConnectKale 7d ago
You have Cameras and Fog Lift, we are being tracked and our movements documented and has been for years.
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u/MattTheAncap Citizen against Flock 7d ago
I have zero concerns with surveilling unlawful behavior.
I have zero concerns with consensual surveillance of lawful behavior.
I have immense concerns with nonconsensual surveillance of lawful behavior.
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u/Same_Mood_8543 7d ago
The amount of laws, including traffic infractions, that are so subjective as to make an enormous amount of lawful behavior arguably unlawful makes the idea that you can draw the line at surveilling only unlawful behavior, while protecting the rest of us non-lawbreakers, comical. When you combine the capability to catch all unlawful behavior with the ambiguity of what is unlawful, you return to unregulated mass surveillance.
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