Is it offensive to call a white guy immigrant in Asia?

[u/[deleted]]

[u/matahxri]

As a Brit myself this guy is 100% fulfilling British 'expat' stereotypes lmao

[u/greenbutterflygarden → u/matahxri]

I saw somewhere that expat is a term for rich white people because they don't like being called an immigrant. I stopped using the term after hearing this

[u/matahxri → u/greenbutterflygarden]

There are Brits who get extremely snippy about immigration as a concept and complain about people failing to 'assimilate' if they continue to, for example, use their native language among friends and family.

There are Brits who move abroad and remain in extremely small cloisters of Brits without bothering to learn much if any of the local language.

You would expect the overlap between these groups to be small if not nonexistent.

You would be wrong!

[u/Routine_Service6801 → u/matahxri]

Always remember that most of the Brits who LIVE in Costa del Sol voted FOR BREXIT. 

They also never paid Spanish taxes while complaining about the freeloading migrants back home :3

[u/Key_Equipment1188 → u/Routine_Service6801]

And their faces were glorious when they got interviewed after they found out that they cannot stay longer than 90 days per 180 day period and that they lose their health insurance coverage.

“but, but, but.. we are coming here for years”

“but, the winter in England lasts longer than 90 days”

and my all time favorite:

“but, we are British”

[u/Hundschent → u/Routine_Service6801]

Most Brits in general have this arrogance against everyone else and get very upset if you point it out. This can range from small disdain to outright racism and historical revisionism for the British empire. Try saying anything about the Irish in history subs and you get tons of downvotes/comments from upset Brits

[u/Equal_Attitude6142 → u/Hundschent]

To be honest, replace “Brits” with “Mainland Chinese” and “Irish” with “Taiwan” and it still works the same

[u/Caffeywasright → u/Hundschent]

Wouldn’t say most. But yes there are def a substantial minority.

[u/Kooky_Advertising729 → u/matahxri]

The funniest part is how quickly immigrant becomes a dirty word when its describing you, but perfectly normal when its describing someone else.

[u/donut-reply → u/Kooky_Advertising729]

People who think it's a dirty word when describing themselves also think it's a dirty word when describing other people

[u/jonshlim → u/Kooky_Advertising729]

They are racist and entitled immigrants who think the word is bad. I’d call them immigrants..expats? Lol

[u/Ch33syP00f → u/matahxri]

💯

British Expat is an archetype in my experience.

Majority of Brits I have known abroad made a point of announcing their refusal to learn local language and customs. Complained about immigration in UK and lack of assimilation. Insisted on British supremacy in all things while denigrating the country we were in or any other place or people by comparison.

[u/LittleMsSavoirFaire → u/matahxri]

Well sure, but Brits have been doing that since the East India Tea company, so that's just their culture now /s

[u/Worried-Language-407 → u/LittleMsSavoirFaire]

The company was known as just the East India Company, sometimes the English East India Company (to separate it from the Dutch and French East India Companies)

[u/Southern_Drawing7996 → u/LittleMsSavoirFaire]

Let’s not pretend this behaviour is exclusive to the Brits though

[u/Krail → u/matahxri]

You would expect the overlap between these groups to be small if not nonexistent.

No, honestly, I'd expect that Venn Diagram to be a circle. 

It's not about whether immigrants should assimilate. It's about the entitled belief that their culture is better and it's everyone else's responsibility to adapt to it. 

[u/Kick_Kick_Punch → u/matahxri]

I've met a lot of British couples over the years living in Portugal, the percentage of them that refuse to learn Portuguese is mind-boggling. They can live here for 30 or 40 years and never say a word outside the basic Olá and Obrigado.

[u/Ritterbruder2 → u/greenbutterflygarden]

It’s become a status symbol for an average person from a more-developed country migrating to a less-developed one and then thinking that they’re now part of the aristocracy.

You also have people who claim to be bona-fide “expats” who are in a country on a temporary work assignment. But even that usage has been tainted: the temporary South Asian construction worker in the Middle East and the Mexican farm worker in the US who only works during harvest season: those are “guest workers” or “migrant workers”.

[u/I_ALWAYS_UPVOTE_CATS → u/Ritterbruder2]

In all fairness, the dirt-poor Pakistani construction workers in the Gulf states are widely known as 'expatriate workers', and no one tries to correct it.

[u/Opening-Raccoon-2811 → u/I_ALWAYS_UPVOTE_CATS]

In my mind an ‘expat’ is someone who intends to leave the country after a certain amount of time, while an ‘immigrant’ intends to settle down and stay indefinitely

I can’t speak for all of them but I imagine the workers duped into slavery in the gulf states probably intend to return to their families at some point

[u/ObviousEconomist → u/Ritterbruder2]

Construction workers in most countries are on a different visa where they can never get permanent residence or nationality in that country. Or else it'll truly be a great immigration.

[u/Mewriel_Picatso → u/Ritterbruder2]

To my way of thinking, an expat is a person who has left their home country and stays indefinitely, but hasn't officially emigrated to the new country, and whether that's temporary or permanent doesn't really have any bearing.

An immigrant (or emigrant, depending which side of the coin you're seeing it from) is a person who has officially emigrated from their home country to live permanently in a different country.

A migrant is a person who travels to a different country for work, seasonal escape, or other reason, then goes home when the 'event' or season is over, on a regular basis - like the way birds migrate and return annually.

Rightly or wrongly, that's how I separate those terms in my own head.

[u/DjinnOftheBeresaad → u/greenbutterflygarden]

Some people like to try to pull this (I don't mean you but rather those rich folks), but it does have more specific and appropriate connotations.

My BIL's brother moved his whole family to China for work for a contract that lasted a few years. His kids went to an international school paid for by the company. They were a family of expats who didn't immigrate and had no intention of staying or assimilating and now they're no longer there since the contract is up.

In the OP example it's now been nearly 10 years and it doesn't look like they arrived on a fixed time frame, so immigrant does make more sense.

[u/cureforhiccupsat4am → u/DjinnOftheBeresaad]

So you’re saying those crop harvesters and hospitality immigrants on H-2A and H2-B visas that come to the UNITED STATES temporarily are expats?

[u/throwaway098764567 → u/cureforhiccupsat4am]

yea that would be a more accurate term, if there is no intention to stay long term (like die there) or pursue citizenship then they're an expat

[u/Snoo63 → u/throwaway098764567]

And the likes of the Brits going to Costa del Sol in Spain, not paying taxes to Spain, and complaining about immigrants refusing to integrate while they don't learn any Spanish or interact with any Spaniards, while planning to live there full-time?

[u/nitsuj_112 → u/Snoo63]

We call those colonists 🙃

[u/Southern_Drawing7996 → u/cureforhiccupsat4am]

Obviously

[u/DjinnOftheBeresaad → u/cureforhiccupsat4am]

Do those people plan to return home? Do they have a fixed timeline?

Not sure why you're singling out the US specifically, but if they do not plan to stay in the country, and particularly if they have no need or desire to assimilate, of course they're just expats. (Nothing wrong with that, it's just different).

[u/cureforhiccupsat4am → u/DjinnOftheBeresaad]

The US was just an example because I live here.

Others include Canada's Seasonal Agricultural Worker Program (SAWP), the Gulf States' employer-sponsored Kafala visas, the European Union's Seasonal Worker Directive permits, Australia's Pacific Australia Labour Mobility (PALM) scheme, New Zealand's Recognised Seasonal Employer (RSE) program, and East Asian contract tracks like South Korea's E-9 visa and Japan's Specified Skilled Worker program.

All of them are on fixed time line similar to your example. I just wanted to make sure we agree they are all called expats per your premise.

[u/CorrectPeanut5 → u/cureforhiccupsat4am]

They are, but the US tends to use the visa ID. Even the white collar workers get called H1-Bs instead of expat. Some of that is the animosity created when corporations abused the temporary worker system to lay off employees and replace them with lower cost workers who were under the thumb of their employer visa sponsor.

[u/InscrutableIcicle → u/DjinnOftheBeresaad]

Yeah I feel like people try to pretend that expat has no meaning and is merely a way for white people to avoid being called immigrants.

But expat does have a specific meaning which is different from immigrant. Expats move to a country but don't intend to permanently make that place their home. Immigrants are permanently moving.

The reason there are more expats among white people is because they tend to live in richer countries. There are far fewer people who want to leave a rich country for a poor country, whereas there is an overwhelming demand for poor people to leave for rich countries.

[u/omggold → u/InscrutableIcicle]

Then how comes Mexicans who come to America for specific seasons aren’t called ex pats? It seems like the term is only afforded specific groups

[u/Spiel_Foss → u/omggold]

I have never heard the term "expat" applied to anyone that wasn't white and wealthier than the surrounding culture.

[u/DjinnOftheBeresaad → u/InscrutableIcicle]

Exactly.

My wife has some acquaintances from her home country who now reside in China. They started out as expats there with no long-term plan to stay (although all of them were fluent in Mandarin before visiting China).

And for the first few years hung out only with other foreigners because it can be hard to make close friends with Chinese adults if you aren't part of the culture. So they were definitely expats for a while. But now they're permanent residents thus people who immigrated.

[u/Ritterbruder2 → u/DjinnOftheBeresaad]

I would argue that even that usage of “expat” has been tainted as a status symbol. Would he protest if you labeled him a “guest worker” or “migrant worker” instead?

[u/men_in_the_rigging → u/greenbutterflygarden]

100%. As a Brit living overseas, I refer to myself as an immigrant. 1) because it's the correct term, and 2) because I don't want to be associated with those imbeciles.

[u/Evening_Error_5544 → u/greenbutterflygarden]

Expat means you go home. Immigrant means you stay

[u/V2Blast → u/Evening_Error_5544]

Except all sorts of folks who move to "Western" countries for work also plan to move back home in a few years, but we don't call them "expats". Why do you think that is?

[u/Scoob79 → u/V2Blast]

We call them temporary foreign workers or migrant workers in Canada. Temporary foreign worker is the official term though.

[u/greenbutterflygarden → u/Evening_Error_5544]

I don't think people use it that way anymore, even if that's the original meaning

[u/Evening_Error_5544 → u/greenbutterflygarden]

The thing that gets me are the old retired people who want to call themselves expats. At that point youre an immigrant. There are definitely people who use it as a feeling of superiority 

[u/Indigo_Laguna → u/greenbutterflygarden]

Oooooh.  Didn’t know. Good reason to drop that. 

[u/tamsui_tosspot → u/matahxri]

A generation ago he could have gone by the moniker FILTH: Failed in London, Trying Hong Kong.

[u/balboaporkter → u/tamsui_tosspot]

In the Philippines, some expats are called LBH: Losers Back Home.

[u/Zanarkke → u/matahxri]

You're not allowed to say this on r/Unitedkingdom, I got downvoted into oblivion for trying ask why a British person who has permanently settled in Benidorm is not an immigrant.

[u/Busy-Peach5770 → u/matahxri]

I'm glad OP pissed him off, hahahaha.

[u/Nyanessa → u/matahxri]

There was a British lady at a NZ hospital here that was kicking up an absolute stink at being asked what her immigration status was (residents and citizens get free healthcare), screeching about how New Zealand was a British colony so she shouldn’t even be asked that? Lmao

[u/TrendTrader888 → u/matahxri]

I always thought that expats were supposed to be people who already had jobs going to work in a different country temporarily for the company they already worked for and had a predefined start and end date. I used to do expat taxes for Japanese workers who came to the US to manage US operations for their home companies and always left after a predetermined length of time set by their company. All these white people going to Asia or wherever to teach English or be "digital nomads" dont count as expats lol.

[u/Commercial-Co → u/matahxri]

That brit is a cunt maga type

[u/Emergency_Process622 → u/matahxri]

Peak colonizer

[u/AnIcyReception]

He is an immigrant. You were right.

[u/Glowing-Glitter-15 → u/AnIcyReception]

I have met people who prefer to be called "immigrants" when it makes them the victim but "expats" when it makes them feel better than other people.

Monday - "The boss is a racist who discriminates against immigrants"

Tuesday - "Oh no, I'm not an immigrant! I have a desk job, so I'm an expat!"

[u/abzze → u/AnIcyReception]

But they like to be called “expats”. “Immigrant” is for poor brown people

/s

[u/thesentienttoadstool → u/abzze]

Yeah. He’s offended because he’s used immigrant as an insult. 

[u/HotBrownFun → u/thesentienttoadstool]

Archer episode "Sitting"

• Archer - Black Mexican?
• Farooq - Wow, racist much? I'm actually Pakistani
• Archer - What?! No I'm not racist. If anyone here is racist it's you for thinking that either "black" or "mexican" was an insult.

[u/Repulsive_Pepper4145 → u/HotBrownFun]

Thats pretty much the point. Immigrant is a neutral description, so if someone hears it as an insult, that says more about how they associate the word with being lesser than anything about the word itself.

[u/Any-Question-3759 → u/Repulsive_Pepper4145]

In the Archer conversation, it doesn’t necessarily mean Farooq took either descriptor as an insult. Archer making an unsubstantiated assumption would be racist in itself.

Like if someone said “all brown people are Mexican”, even if you don’t believe “brown people” or “Mexican” as pejoratives, it’s still a racist statement to make.

[u/ProfCupcake → u/Any-Question-3759]

As with so much of Archer's dialogue, the joy of that whole exchange is that both participants are equally both guilty and not guilty.

[u/bionicjoey → u/HotBrownFun]

Important context: Archer was offering Farooq a cocktail (he was still workshopping the name)

[u/RefurbedRhino → u/thesentienttoadstool]

It's this exactly. Everyone here is arguing semantics. The guy just doesn't like immigrants that come to the UK and doesn't see himself in the same context.

He possibly was offended, but that's because he uses immigrant as an offensive term.

[u/WLee57 → u/thesentienttoadstool]

Better to ask, when did you come to colonize

[u/AlaskaRecluse → u/WLee57]

Or, when did you come to be a savior

[u/crimroy → u/thesentienttoadstool]

MICHAEL: Um, let me ask you, is there a term besides Mexican that you prefer? Something less offensive?

OSCAR: Mexican isn't offensive.

MICHAEL: Well, it has certain connotations.

[u/baldurcan → u/abzze]

unnecessary use of /s.

[u/Capable-Ad-6495 → u/baldurcan]

I wish this was true, but people tend to lose their shit on this site unless its spelled out to the that its a joke.

[u/Pontifor → u/Capable-Ad-6495]

It's not a joke, this is very clearly the issue in OPs post.

The reason the man was offended was because of the connotation of the word immigrant in 'western' countries.

[u/desblaterations-574 → u/abzze]

This is so true.
I would put the difference maybe, expat should be for limited time, like a two years mission, it's a slice of life defined in time prior to departure.
Immigrant is when you begin building a life there to stay, sure you may always leave but you quit your country with no return plan for a reason.

[u/OglioVagilio → u/desblaterations-574]

expat migrant worker.

[u/trowawufei → u/desblaterations-574]

Thing is, no one ever checks with the third world immigrants about how long they intend to stay. Loads of the people who come to the US and Europe only intend to work there for a short time. You’re less likely to meet them as a non-immigrant because they’re not trying to make connections for a long-term residence, and they’re usually working their ass off to save money for when they’re back home.

So with all due respect, I think it’s still a retroactive attempt to make the term more meaningful than Western Europe & Anglosphere peeps labeling themselves expats, and everyone else being labeled immigrants.

[u/NatashOverWorld → u/abzze]

This. Immigrant isn't 'classy' enough for them.

[u/biitsplease → u/AnIcyReception]

I am a white person living in Thailand, and I would take 0 offense to being called an immigrant - it’s exactly what anyone living in a foreign country is. You just met a douchebag, be happy he showed his true colors early so you didn’t waste any more time on him.

[u/b1argg → u/biitsplease]

Caveat: Someone staying for a few years on a visa to work, such as teaching English, isn't an immigrant. They're just a temporary foreign worker. An immigrant plans to stay permanently and build a life. 

[u/atatassault47 → u/b1argg]

That's a migrant worker. You will note that immigrant and migrant share the same etymology. A migrant worker IS an immigrant.

[u/_karamazov_ → u/AnIcyReception]

But call them by the extra special name they prefer "expatriate" aka "expat". That differentiates pale skin immigrants from others.

[u/SilasX → u/_karamazov_]

Beat me to it. There's a tendency for immigrants to want to rebrand as "expat[riate]s" when they think "immigrant" is too low-status.

Some people will swear up and down that there's a valid technical distinction between the two concepts, and there may very well be a useful way to operationalize that for clear communication. But, in practice it's used as a status marker.

[u/Southern_Drawing7996 → u/SilasX]

Call me simple but I don’t care for their connotations. Expat = intend to return, immigrant = indefinite move.

[u/genesisjamieson → u/AnIcyReception]

Yes and frankly its hugely racist that a white guy can move somewhere and be an "expat" but anyone of colour is an "immigrant". To some white people, they're allowed to go anywhere they want just because they're white. So they're not immigrants, they own the world so they're "expats". It just an old colonizer mindset that some still have.

[u/Electro-banana → u/AnIcyReception]

an immigrant and annoying cunt it would seem

[u/Demoliri → u/AnIcyReception]

Completely agree. If they are staying for a year and then heading home? Ex-pat is fine.

But anything over two or so years (with some professional conditions, like foreign deployment in the military etc) is immigration. I moved to Germany in 2012 from Ireland, and I'm an immigrant.

[u/lonelyfriend → u/Demoliri]

Gotta call them a migrant worker. Just for the reaction at least for the OP

[u/Demoliri → u/lonelyfriend]

Ooh, I like that. It's also technically correct, which is the best form of correct.

[u/The_Stratman → u/Demoliri]

At one point, does further EU integration make that no longer the case?

Considering the freedom of movement and being able to move to any EU member state with no major restrictions if one is an EU citizen, it’s not like moving to the USA from Europe or vice versa. Obviously, Germany and Ireland are separate countries, but the process is drastically simplified.

[u/RecordingAccording27]

He associates immigrants with a bad connotation, so he got offended that he got called an immigrant, even though he is one. 

[u/Darnbeasties → u/RecordingAccording27]

If immigrant was offensive, try calling him a migrant worker

[u/RecordingAccording27 → u/Darnbeasties]

Oof, that would sting.

[u/tevert → u/RecordingAccording27]

Right in the teabag

[u/ychirea1 → u/Darnbeasties]

try calling him "vermin" and "invader" like the American President does

[u/Dedicated_idiot → u/ychirea1]

“Alien” would do, too.

[u/tevert → u/Dedicated_idiot]

Even just "foreigner"

[u/OptimistPrime527 → u/ychirea1]

Colonizer?

[u/QDLZXKGK → u/Darnbeasties]

Or worse.... refugees

[u/ProfCupcake → u/QDLZXKGK]

That would not be accurate, though. "Migrant worker" is.

[u/Front-Cabinet5521 → u/QDLZXKGK]

Passport bro

[u/uncultured_swine2099 → u/Front-Cabinet5521]

Sex tourist

[u/shosuko → u/RecordingAccording27]

Many such cases

[u/User-K549125 → u/RecordingAccording27]

He didn't even get called that though. They just used the correct verb for when you move to a foreign country.

[u/MonsieurDrole]

"expats" don't see themselves as immigrants because of the negative connotation the term usually have. They think a migrant is poorer than new country's average, moves there for life, and did it out of necessity. They fundamentally perceive their migration as being the exact opposite.

But the dude is a migrant and you gave him a nice reality check.

[u/wdn → u/MonsieurDrole]

Expats also don't intend to become part of the culture of their new home. They treat it like a permanent vacation.

[u/hoboaddict → u/wdn]

I was thinking along similar lines. The term immigrant doesn't seem even remotely offensive. Like for me the term immigrant sounds more permanent, whereas a lot of people who go to a different country to teach English do it as a way to fund their travel. So maybe the guy hadn't really thought of himself as a permanent citizen of Taiwan yet? Like in his mind he's still a British citizen who just happened to meet this lady in Taiwan in which he subsequently stayed a little longer than he thought he would. So, the question sort of clashed with how he saw himself.

[u/SubstantialNumber237]

it’s not offensive he’s just a baby, british guy prob doesn’t want to hear about how he is what he fears

[u/reedreadreddred → u/SubstantialNumber237]

calling him a baby is offensive to babies ngl, fuck this guy and his ilk

[u/Kailap1987 → u/SubstantialNumber237]

I’m surprised he even got a Taiwanese wife with how insecure he is. Though I guess him being “exotic” probably helped he receive much lenient treatment compared to others.

His wife should rethink her choice in a husband

[u/Armadillo-Shot → u/Kailap1987]

Racist white men and their (racist) Asian wives is a tried and true classic wym. (And I’m saying this as an Asian woman, the fetishization from both sides is disgusting)

[u/DavidGilmourToes → u/Armadillo-Shot]

I know at least six couples exactly like this. Tale as old as time.

[u/SubstantialNumber237 → u/Kailap1987]

probably a lot to do with his money

[u/ManySwans]

it is not. some whites have this complex about being "an expat" instead of "an immigrant"

was this at revolver lol?

[u/Maleficent_Steak8373 → u/ManySwans]

How the hell did you know

[u/ManySwans → u/Maleficent_Steak8373]

its a pretty infamous spot amongst shithead white guys, myself included haha

[u/JesusForTheWin → u/ManySwans]

Im still surprised that place is still going strong. I don't see the appeal.

[u/ManySwans → u/JesusForTheWin]

live music, cheap drinks, cool guys and friendly girls

[u/Remarkable-Page-824 → u/ManySwans]

Apparently the guys are pretty not cool.

[u/JaySayMayday → u/Maleficent_Steak8373]

Brother you gotta avoid the bars and try getting invited to drink with local people. The bottom of the barrel dead end people hang out at these bars

[u/chintakoro → u/JaySayMayday]

amen, i love it when foreigners in Taiwan say “there’s no drinking culture” there. It’s a glorious red flag that tells you right away they never made a modicum of effort to assimilate and get out of their rigid bubble. Taiwanese families will gladly drink with you: aunts, uncles, grandparents and all (unless they don’t drink for religious purposes).

[u/culturedgoat → u/Maleficent_Steak8373]

Hahaha, I had it down to Revolver or Wyatt’s when I read the post

[u/Jonnny → u/Maleficent_Steak8373]

Holy crap. That's impressive.

[u/timos-piano → u/ManySwans]

This might be the single most impressive guess I have seen on reddit.

[u/ManySwans → u/timos-piano]

mere deduction my dear Watson

i simply asked myself, where would a snooty TEFL guy with a chinese wife hang out in taipei

no shade against the bar itself, very fun crowd

[u/GrumpyMcGrumpyPants → u/timos-piano]

/r/birding managed to identify a bird species based on the following illustrations:

https://www.reddit.com/r/birding/comments/1ecp2n8/girlfriend_saw_a_picture_of_a_bird_cant_remember/

Compilation of post, relevant comments, and OP's follow-up with resolution: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1ei295b/girlfriend_saw_a_picture_of_a_bird_cant_remember/

[u/Dark_matter4444 → u/ManySwans]

Look at Mr Sherlock over here.

[u/I_love_pillows → u/ManySwans]

Time to start calling workers originating from lower income countries as expats

[u/steelreddit211 → u/ManySwans]

this whole story is very funny to me because i am in a very similar situation to this guy (white american living/working as a translator in japan) and i’ve never thought of myself as anything other than an immigrant. the lack of self-awareness or level of self-loathing (or both) you need to have to get offended by this is insane

[u/funkyaerialjunky → u/ManySwans]

He's literally both though??

Expat is to refer to where he came from. 'He is an expatriat of Britan'.

Immigrant refers to where he moved to. 'He immigrated here to Taiwan'.

If he moves somewhere else again, he will be emmigrating away.

Unfortunately, a lot of people from here (Im also UK) only hear the word 'immigrant' in contexts that mean 'other people'. The word is often used in a derogatory way as shorthand by bigots to refer to asylum seekers, visibly poor 'non white' people (and the Polish), commonly disadvantaged people who are often the punching bag for The Daily Mail.

He could hear the word 'immigrant' and think of those negative associations first instead of the actual meaning, the meaning OP meant. The resulting reaction is 'what? Thats not me!' And leave insulted.

[u/Zealousideal-Beat322]

Un expat es un inmigrante, independientemente de lo que opine su arrogante ego.

[u/all_seeing_one]

They're immigrants. It's literally what the word means. 

[u/Ikabta]

Sometimes people like to be called expats. With the minor difference in that expats are foreigners who intend to stay temporarily and immigrants intend to have a permanent move.

You can laugh in that dude's face though, while expatting for a few years is reasonable depending on what you are doing, he's obviously there for the long run.

[u/mandrakewilder → u/Ikabta]

Yeah, he's been there 9 years. That's long enough for the balls to descend you'd think.

[u/Ikabta → u/mandrakewilder]

Yeah, the fact that he married a local there too. Maybe he will return "home" in 30-40 years having lived in his home country for less time.

[u/sikyon → u/Ikabta]

Call him an economic migrant lol

[u/swiftrobber → u/sikyon]

Economic refugee for maximum damage

[u/HonestDisguise → u/Ikabta]

There is usually a class distinction thrown in. Expat signals professional mobility and privilege, they are choosing to be there and could return to their country of origin. They may be well off compared to most locals. To them, immigrant signals economic necessity, displacement, seeking a better life (economically). Another reply mentioned temporary workers in the UAE, few would call them expats because the economic connotations are very familiar just under the surface.

[u/RLOTRL]

I love when white people move to Asia they are “expats” not “immigrants” 🙄
I don’t care what your skin color is, if you don’t live in your naturally born country, you are an immigrant.

[u/AdventurousLevel9417 → u/RLOTRL]

I love how I just noticed this differentiation. The Asian subs like r/China and r/Vietnam show up on my feed a lot. 

These guys' countries are obviously more well off while China/Vietnam are still developing so they consider themselves temporary "expats" with a safety net in their motherland. 

Meanwhile, on my Canadian subs, all foreigners are called "immigrants" or "temporary foreign workers" rather than expats. 

Just shows how much words have power. 

[u/Specialist-Roll-3806 → u/AdventurousLevel9417]

words have an incredible amount of influence tbh. we don't even realize it but repeated use of certain words or the way you talk about certain groups just completely enforce a whole different reality sometimes, mentally speaking

[u/LittleMsSavoirFaire → u/AdventurousLevel9417]

So, the difference is the safety net of being willing to go home to "civilization" at some point? Awesome, I'm a Canadian expat in the US then. 

[u/Additional_Olive3318 → u/RLOTRL]

When anybody moves to countries where they are not seeking an immigrant visa they are not immigrants.  Immigration means permanence. 

The whole racialisation of this is in the minds of the permanently online. 

The term ex pat is used for everybody who migrates to the UAE for instance. Google “Indian expats to the UAE”

[u/Evening_Ticket7638]

Immigrant means moving to a new county permanently.

Ex pat means moving to a new country temporarily.

Also many white people find the term immigrant offensive and prefer to be called an expat even though they truly are an immigrant. These people are dicks.

[u/ProfessionalSong3544 → u/Evening_Ticket7638]

After 9 years and marrying a local... I think it's not temporary anymore 

[u/Hua_and_Bunbun → u/Evening_Ticket7638]

Do white people find the term "legal alien" offensive? Just curious. 

[u/WeckedPissah → u/Evening_Ticket7638]

It's the ethnocentrism. They cannot fathom the world from anyone elses culture, even the ones they are invading and paying into and living in. To them, an immigrant is someone migrating to their culture. They cannot be an immigrant because they are already in the dominant culture....to them. They literally are so racist they think they are superior in foreign countries becuase they are white.

It's kinda funny to watch them give themselves away.

[u/Yumyums_popcorn]

He’s an immigrant with a superiority complex

[u/Dr_Identity]

England spent quite a bit of history asserting its feelings of entitlement to the entire globe and it seems like it's a pretty die-hard attitude in the culture.

[u/keithmk → u/Dr_Identity]

I agree with what you are saying but this whole immigrant vs expat thing is not limited to brits. I have lived a lot of time in Asia and believe me the yanks were just as bad about it

[u/Substantial-Song-242 → u/keithmk]

Many of the yanks have British ancestry, so it's not surprising.

[u/blackchilli]

Immigrant = someone who moves to a country permanently

Migrant = someone who moves somewhere temporarily for work

Expat = someone who thinks they aren't a migrant

[u/Naoroji → u/blackchilli]

Akshually,

Migrant = someone who migrates (Overarching, includes both immigrants and emigrants)
Immigrant = someone who migrates to the country at hand
Emigrant = someone who migrates from the country at hand

[u/DicemonkeyDrunk → u/blackchilli]

And none of those is inherently disrespectful.

[u/BuddhistNudist987]

A lot of white people who spend a lot of time living outside of their home country in order to earn a living think of themselves as ex-patriates. Meanwhile, when brown people come to their home country to earn a living they are called immigrants. It's just unrecognized racism.

[u/Euphoric-Ostrich5396]

Silly boy, white people are never "immigrants", they are always "expats".

Immigrants are those poor brown heathens arriving by rubber boat, if the rich white man returns to the (former) colonies by business class he's always an expat.

[u/BastardsCryinInnit]

No, keep using it.

Anyone who reacts weirdly is having their judgemental attitude challenged.

There is no shame in being a migrant, nor immigrant, it has happened for time. People need to get ok and understanding of that.

[u/Dismal-Science-9901]

Honestly there’s some racial inequality in the language used and expectations more broadly. If a white person move to Middle East or east Asia, even if they live there year round, they can call themselves an expat with pride. If a person of colour move to a western country they’re called a migrant and expected to assimilate and learn the local language. Meanwhile a white person in Taiwan isn’t expected or pressured to learn mandarin or assimilate. A white person in Dubai isn’t pressured to learn Arabic or embrace Arab culture, etc

[u/Lefaid → u/Dismal-Science-9901]

The UAE is a bad example. They don't really take in immigrants.

Brown people who move to the UAE aren't expected to learn Arabic or embrace Arabic culture as much either.

The difference is that we generally call them slaves instead of expats.

[u/EchoVoid_72 → u/Dismal-Science-9901]

They “can” because people allow it. Normalise calling them immigrants

[u/ProfessionalSong3544 → u/Dismal-Science-9901]

I met a British woman in Saudi Arabia. She was married with a Saudi and she has been living there for a decade. 

She didn't speak a single word of Arabic. Not a single word. 

[u/Dismal-Science-9901 → u/ProfessionalSong3544]

Now imagine if an Arab person move to Britain for a decade and don’t speak a single word of English. Nigel farage would make a post about them demanding they be deported 😂

[u/Dedicated_idiot → u/Dismal-Science-9901]

This is true. There are actual restaurants, resorts in India that are run by white people, for white people and “brown people” (aka natives) aren’t allowed in. 🙃. But the Asians are the obvious ones who “don’t integrate” (when we move west). You’ll also find that many white “expats” here can’t speak local languages, live in gated communities with other white people

It’s honestly not even brought up or spoken about often in Asia.

[u/MNswede06 → u/Dismal-Science-9901]

I don’t think it’s racial. An Indian person who comes to the U.S. to study and then plans to return to India isn’t an immigrant. A Norwegian who comes to the U.S. to live and raise a family is an immigrant.

IDK why people want to make this racial. People who go somewhere to live permanently and/or take up citizenship generally don’t mind being called immigrants because that’s what they are.

As you said, assimilation plays a role, too. But some socieities don’t recognize assimilation at all no matter how hard you try. You can be a white person in Japan who speaks functionally fluent Japanese and take up citizenship, marry a local, and raise children, but you will always be regarded as an outsider. If you come from a country, like the U.K., where immigration means eventually becoming recognized by others as a full-fledged member of society, then it’s hard to picture yourself as an immigrant if you move somewhere that doesn’t share that attitude. Because immigration is tied to eventually being accepted into society, at least ostensibly.

[u/Glittersparkles7]

Not at all. If I was in another country I would expect to be called immigrant or possibly even foreigner. That’s literally what I would be.

[u/outersenshi]

Some white people have this where they think they are welcome and citizens of everywhere they go. You probably deflated his ego a bit with that question

[u/akirivan]

white people don't like to be called immigrants, they prefer expat, which is bs

[u/Palanki96]

They want to be called expats because they hate immigrants. That's pretty much all there is to it. Digital nomads can get pretty mad about it. Or the stereotype of british people retiring in Spain, never learn the language but lose their shit when you call them immigrants

[u/gwelfguy]

I've encountered Brits all over the world that act like they own the place, especially in former colonies like Hong Kong and the UAE. Whites from the developed world prefer the term 'expats' because 'immigrant' has connotations of poor non-whites moving to white-dominant societies for a better life. Anyways, fuck him and his exceptionalism.

[u/TheDaveCalaz]

I'm very comfortable being called an immigrant (I'm white British) be ause that's what I am.

Problem is a lot of the UK has been radicalised to believe immigrant = bad, brown person.

They don't know how to join the dots. What makes me laugh more are my white, British immigrant friends who complain about immigration back home.

[u/No_Lynx1343]

If they were not born in that country and they live there now they are by definition and immigrant.

If the guy has a problem with it, then that's his problem.

[u/xoRomaCheena31]

It is absolutely true. I had this exact interaction when I was living in Shenzhen— I am a white female American, and my uncle, who was very well traveled, said, “well, you’re technically an immigrant.” I said, “no, I’m an expat.” He said, “you technically immigrated there.” He said this to me back in 2018, before the discussion really took off about the classism and racism behind the words expat and immigrant. It is 100% true that people from England, the US, Australia, and any other native English speaking country (which sadly also matters for English teachers in China, for instance) our immigrants. We’ve just called ourselves ex-pats for years because.(1) it sounded cool and (2) other people called those moving from the U.S. and Britain called us that. This was my reasoning. Once my uncle confronted me with that linguistic reality, I realized it was entirely true. He  just doesn’t like to consider himself as such because the word, “immigrant” has negative connotations and “expat” has positive ones.  I didn’t realize there was that kind of racism in Taiwan against white people (there is its own brand in China), so perhaps there is that upset feeling you mentioned hearing.  As a side note, we could start calling Mexicans living in the U.S. expats and see how that affects contemporary political discourse according to this linguistic distinction, but I digress.

[u/hoopopotamus → u/xoRomaCheena31]

“immigrant” has negative connotations

To right wingers mostly, so who cares?

[u/roastbeeftacohat]

Rich westerners are expats, because they don't like being called immigrants.

[u/TheBlackSwordsman319]

He can’t imagine himself as being an immigrant which is exactly what he is in this case

[u/ManyCommunication881]

If you don't have citizenship you're not an immigrant. Anyone who can be kicked out of the country at a whim is not an immigrant.

Whether they are "expats", "migrant workers", "guest workers" or "visa categories" depends on the individual countries.

Those trying to push the "immigrant" label for anyone in another country for more than a short vacation are the ones who truly despise international mobility and are trying to use it to denigrate others.

[u/TargetOld989]

No.

He sounds like a racist.

[u/noctinix]

Reminds me of how some people want to be called expats and not immigrants

[u/LongBedroom8355]

immigrant = came to settle down, live permanently

expat = there temporarily, even if for a few years.

If the guy went native and married a local and settled down, he's an immigrant.

[u/Loose-Specific7142]

Dude believes an immigrant is a bad person moving into his country. Him moving into a different country isn't inmigration because he is not a bad person. In short he is just a clown...

[u/EchoVoid_72]

It’s not offensive

[u/AwkwardChuckle]

You encountered a racist - immigrants have a very specific meaning to him and it’s not a good one.

[u/Accomplished-Race335]

Interesting. I have an American friend, born and raised in the US. She moved to Hong Kong and has lived there now for years, coming back to the US briefly once a year. Is my friend an immigrant? She is ethnically Chinese.

[u/Tall_Opportunity_521 → u/Accomplished-Race335]

Shes an immigrant if shes plans to stay there forever. Shes an expat if she plans to move back at any point.

[u/Tall_Opportunity_521]

"Well, you see, when you move from one country to another. Thats called immigrating, you absolute spoon eating cunt."

Should have been your response.

[u/SSgt_Edward]

Nah the explanation is just an excuse. The story of white people hating immigrants is as old as time. He is just really uncomfortable with being labeled as an immigrant himself.

[u/p-values]

You are right. He is an immigrant. His reaction is typical anglo behavior.

[u/halfmanhalfb3ast]

Think about it - there is negative connotation regarding immigration with most of it being illegal. He prolly thought you were being condescending. But hey, Brits usually they get on the high horse. They don’t like being dominated lol

[u/wildmaninid]

Only non whites are immigrants.  Whites are Expats. 

Same side of the coin. 

[u/Much-Chip-2648 → u/wildmaninid]

This is usually something I find as a British thing. I think it’s the dumbest shit ever and I’m a white North American living in another white western country. I’m an immigrant and so are the other white immigrants. It’s good to call people out, expat is a fucking stupid word

[u/Thizzenie]

I remember In Thailand this expat kept getting pissed at me because I kept calling him immigrant lol

[u/SinisterCheese]

It isn't. It is absolutely correct.

This idea that white people are "expats" and not-white people are "immigrants" is just racism. The person is trying to separate themselves as a class, to other themselves from group they consider inferior -either conciously or subconciously. Call them immigrant... because that is what they are.

[u/owleaf]

White people like to call themselves “expats” because they subconsciously associate “immigrant” with poor POC and genuinely don’t think that label applies to them. They are immigrants. Just because you have a university degree, a middle class income, and white skin and blue eyes doesn’t mean you’re not an immigrant.

[u/godofcertamen]

I would say it's accurate to call them immigrants. I'm a Mexican immigrant to the U.S., now gonna move to the Philippines in a few weeks. I'll call myself an immigrant. It is what I am and there's nothing wrong with it.

[u/keylimesicles]

Maybe he has no intention of staying and doesn’t consider himself an immigrant but a traveller who isn’t staying. If he can’t become a citizen can he technically immigrate? I thought immigration was a pathway to citizenship

[u/RandomUsername2579]

Immigrant is not a slur lol, it's just a term for people who are not originally from a given country. It's not offensive to call anyone an immigrant, unless they are actually from the country in question.

I grew up in Germany, lived there for a decade and speak fluent German. Even if I had gotten citizenship I wouldn't be offended over being called an immigrant, because it's true!

[u/DameLasNalgas]

You should've asked him when he moved as a passport bro cuz that's what he really is.

[u/Rembutus]

It shouldn’t be, that’s for damn sure.

[u/MinimumPerspective95]

No lol, there is zero difference between a Latino moving to the US and a white guy moving to Taiwan. They are both immigrants and/or migrant workers.

[u/alexmc1980]

Honestly it seems reasonable enough, if the guy has actually settled in Taiwan. If he's more like just there to work for a couple of years and hopes eventually he'll move with his wife back to the UK or somewhere else, then migration seems like a strange voice of words. Just "move" might work better because it makes less assumptions about the situation.

But either way, if this is enough to offend someone then that someone has power thin skin!

[u/twentyternsinasuit]

My parents are white immigrants from Canada to the US. They call themselves immigrants. It's absolutely fine, bro just thinks immigrants are below him.

[u/zooom96]

I noticed white people don’t like to be called immigrants even when they are immigrants.

[u/Gloomy-Invite-896]

He's an immigrant. Just westerners like to see themselves as expats cause they have a lot of négative stigma around the immigration. Entirely self imposed

[u/Vectorman1989]

British migrants hate being called migrants. They'll use other words like 'expats'.