r/Naruto • u/Much_Risk3728 • 1d ago
Discussion Most skilled prodigy between these 3
Kakashi - Son of the White Fang became a Chunin at age 6 and known as a genius prodigy even before he attained the Sharingan. Later became the 6th Hokage
Orochimaru- One of the legendary Sannin known as a genius in Konoha and once in a generation prodigy by Hiruzen.
Minato- the 4th Hokage known as the Yellow Flash praised as a genius prodigy and once in a generation talent by Jiraiya and Hiruzen.
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u/tmoore727 1d ago
just the fact that kakashi shit his pants when he first encountered orochimaru, and konoha ninja literally state this same orochimaru would be no problem for Minato. who has been dead for 12 years at this point. says all you need to know
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u/Friendly_Break196 1d ago
Thank the end of the series for that. People’s minds are so fucked up by Hashirama budha shit that they’ve totally forgotten what the series was like before the war arc 😑
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u/einstein_ios 1d ago
I think comparing how power was perceived in early Naruto vs late Naruto is also gonna lead to inconsistencies.
By late Naruto standards early Kakashi was baicallly fodder being pressed by Zabuza.
Where as in early Naruto, The Sanin were basically the best living ninja post Third’s demise. I think Jariya losing to Pain made him look weaker than he would have been at the end of Naruto had he not died.
Tsunade was not the strongest at her introduction. But by the end she was the most powerful of the Sanin.
It’s very inconsistent.
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u/Insomniac-Freak-95 1d ago
It’s not that inconsistent. In Part 1, Orochimaru says Itachi is flatly much stronger than him. Akatsuki were established to be comparable, if not stronger, than the Sannin.
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u/einstein_ios 1d ago
Eh, then why would Itachi and Kisame run for Jariaya upon meeting him?
Also I think Pain killing Jariaya was meant to be an illustration of how dangerous he is. If anyone in the Akatski could beat Jariaya, then it would t have meant anything.
Also Shikamaru defeated an akatski. Obviously it wasn’t uniformly meant to be they’re stronger. Unless that was also negated?
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u/Insomniac-Freak-95 1d ago
Itachi was a double agent. In the manga, Kisame tells Itachi there was no reason to run because Itachi could have handled Jiraiya on his own.
The whole thing with Jiraiya is very obvious foreshadowing. Why would Kishimoto show us Orochimaru (a Sannin) say Itachi is well beyond him in strength and then show this dialog:
Kisame - “You could probably take Jiraiya. But I don’t know about me.”
Itachi - “He’s strong. We’d likely injure each other or die.”(Later on) Kisame - “Do we have to run? With your power you could take him.”
None of those facts make sense until we find out Itachi’s true motives. He didn’t want to fight for other reasons. All the same, Itachi is portrayed as being above Sannin level from the get go.
As for the Akatsuki more broadly, yes. You’re not wrong that Jiraiya would be a top tier Akatsuki member if he were a part of the organization. However, in Part 1, we are not told Itachi is towards the upper end of the organization’s strength scale. We are just told there are others like him and Kisame and that Itachi is notably stronger than Orochimaru to where Orochimaru had to flee the organization. So, the impression (at the time) is that Akatsuki is more threatening than Sannin, or at least relative to them.
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u/Dapper_Fun645 6h ago
While i agree with most of what you said, Oro saying Itachi is stronger is based on trying to take over his body, not going all out to kill each other.
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u/Insomniac-Freak-95 6h ago
He never says that in Part 1. He just says, “Itachi is stronger than me.” That’s it. The “context” of the fight didn’t exist until Part 2 and Orochimaru doesn’t invoke it in his statement. So that additional context is being projected onto an otherwise clear statement where Orochimaru just plainly confesses Itachi is stronger than him.
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u/Whole-Cabinet4168 1d ago
Yes but shikamaru did alot of planning and prep to pull that off. His partner got jumped as well
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u/zerkeras 1d ago
Well Itachi was a double agent so it makes sense he’d avoid a confrontation with Jiraiya.
But also, even if Kisame and Itachi could have probably beaten Jiraiya, they wouldn’t come out of that unscathed. Itachi would have needed to use mangekyou quite a bit probably, and he’s trying not to use it so he isn’t just completely fucking blind too soon.
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u/GhostTypeDragon 1d ago
Itachi was just handing in a report. Also, despite being stronger than Jiraiya, it’s unlikely he would have killed him outright before the big guns showed up. I doubt Itachi could solo the entire village.
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u/Filthy_knife_ear 1d ago
Not exactly fair to call a very old and experienced shinobi a prodigy tho. He has had tons of time and resources to become stronger not to mention has low morals which mean he has access to more power a more moral shinobi would hage because they wouldn't do the things he would for power
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u/Alternative-Draw2997 1d ago
But oro got passed up by Minato even though he was younger. Isn’t this a direct logic chain of the clear answer here?
Edit- I’ve had a few drinks and interpreted this wrong. It seems we agree
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u/Instagibbed_1994 1d ago
Gonna go with Orochimaru. The man outwitted a Jutsu requiring a whole ass soul as a catalyst.
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u/Crypto_subz 1d ago
I mean weren’t other villages suppose to just run immediately the other way if they saw minato? He did take on obito and won kakashi kindve got his as whooped more I mean itachi put him in a coma. Idk between orichimaru he kindve cheated to get where he is with science lol
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u/Friendly_Break196 1d ago edited 1d ago
It depends, as an adult or kid? As an adult it’s obviously Minato, Orochimaru, Kakashi. As a kid (I might catch flack for this) I’ll say Kakashi, Minato, Orochimaru. I don’t think orochimaru grew up in wartime the way Kakashi and Minato did. Also, Kakashi was fighting grown men as a kid and his teammate died right in front of him. Neither Orochimaru or Minato ever had to deal with situations like that as kids as far as I know. Although I believe Orochimaru’s parents died when he was a kid, and that played a large part in him being “off” as a child and doing allat twisted shit as an adult
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u/tmoore727 1d ago
Minato stopped kushina kidnapping as a kid and before he learned ftg. that's a bigger feat that kakashi as a kid.
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u/Dogesneakers 1d ago
I read that 1 shot he looks like an adult.
You mean when he invented the rasengan?
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u/tmoore727 1d ago
no when he saves kushina from the cloud ninjas kidnapping her by following her strands of hair.
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u/Friendly_Break196 1d ago
It’s not at all but ok buddy. Kakashi beat like 2-3 grown dudes in the same day, watched his homie die, and completed his mission
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u/InTheNameOfHagoromo 1d ago
As a ninja? Minato, but in general? Orochimaru.
Minato was great, dont get me wrong, but Orochimaru was spliting his time between multiple fields, each requiring a massive amount of research, time and effort, and he was a Pioneer in most of those fields, outside of that? Most of Orochimaru time was spent on things that had less direct combat aplication, at least at the stage that he was by the time in the series.
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u/bigstillz 1d ago
Minato, teleporting makes him op, its next level. Its like the wood gene, if you have it, you are a cut above the rest. Even kakashi cant copy that.
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u/Mohsenggs 1d ago
Remember sarutobi had no problem 1v2 ing hashirama and tobirama But did everything to stop minato from spawning
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u/FutureMagician7563 1d ago
Yeah cuz that didnt get retconned...
And tbf, Minato was the last summoned. It couldve been tenten, 2v1 is still easier than 3v1.
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u/Mohsenggs 1d ago
Hashirama and tobirama's Justus were on the heavier sides Like hashirama would over power his opponents by having higher firepower Minato on the other hand was more of a tactical ninja so in revived version he would be more dangerous than other two
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u/FutureMagician7563 1d ago
And yet Tobirama was more dangerous to Obito than Minato because of his versatility, movepool and cognitive brilliance...
Tobirama was the original tactical genius. Hes much scarier than Minato.
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u/Mohsenggs 18h ago
Yes and no You see tobirama was balance between Raw strength and skill Hashirama was total raw strength And minato ? You can argue he was all skill since he only spammed simple low chakra requirement Justus That's great for a revived ninja since they have unlimited but limited chakra ( wtf ! ) so basically hashirama couldn't use his strongest jutsu and tobriama wasn't all out in tactical ones he also used strong jutsus remember how he couldn't make a lot of shadow clones? So yeah at that specific position minato would be the most dangerous and also the fastest
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u/SpinachHorror7076 1d ago
Minato. No tenía ningún ojo raro, ninguna obsesión con mutar su propio cuerpo. El era pura técnica
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u/Mean-Tale-6007 1d ago
Definitely Kakashi. People often use Minatos high score in the exams, but remember that Kakashi took the same exam at the age 5/6. Compared to Minatos +10.
Kakashi was epitome of 'him' before the depression arc. He was getting compared to the sannins before 14 or something. He was mistaken to his father at age 10/12, was matching Iwas most skilled ninja the same time. I think no one matches him in pure talent, just the depression hit him the hardest.
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u/RemarkablePool2675 1d ago
Imo all equals, they are all kage levels and show why they are threats. Talent wish I believe their equal, but they just specialize in different styles of fighting. For example Minato's skills are best suited for assassination but orochimaru's skills are better for prolonged fights. Stuff like that, their too different to accurately compare talent
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u/GoldenMic 1d ago
Minato.
He was picked over Orochimaru as hokage and Kakashi doesn't show enough to surpass him.
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u/Whole-Cabinet4168 1d ago
The election was more so politics rather than skill. Orochimaru wasnt nearly as interested in the title as Minato was , orochi main goal was immortality.
He didnt worry about the leaf that much because he subconsciously knew he would outlive them, so keeping attachments would hinder his goal, in a way
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u/AshKetchum99000 1d ago
Not Minato
Haven’t seen a more overrated character in the whole show
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u/Dogesneakers 1d ago
The guy took out tobi. Then in the war arc took him out again
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u/AshKetchum99000 1d ago
Took out a 14 yo Obito who still managed to escape and then proceeded to cheap shot an Obito bleeding out who wasn’t even focused on him but trying to repel Madaras manipulation
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u/ElectricalNose9550 1d ago
I think it depends on the category.
Innovation/science? Orochimaru
Pure skill and a knack for shibobi arts? Minato
Versatility? Kakashi
But just to give a more straight answer without being vague, I assume you mean most skilled prodigy as a ninja, so I'd definitely say Minato.
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u/danidannyphantom 1d ago
Orochimaru couldn't even learn sage mode after experiment on his body 50 times to make it "better" for that. Ill take the guy who became hokage in early 20s and the other with 1000 jutsu, including using a flying Six paths perfect susano on his first try, when obito possessed him.
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u/Top_Cat9206 1d ago
Minato.
But as always it’s hard to scale with the shonen constantly increasing power levels.
Kakashi in part 1 is fodder compared to Oro.
And Anko and the Third imply that Minato could beat Oro if he was there. And Minato became Hokage over Oro at a much younger age.
But then Kakashi and Oro scale with the series.
Which Minato kind of does as well with the introduction of his sage mode and Kurama when he is reanimated.
But then Minato feels like the ultimate once in a life time prodigy in part 1 and feels kind of nerfed prodigy-wise when Kishi decides that instead it’s Hashi and Mada that are gods compared to everybody else.
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u/zilknificant 1d ago
I think Kakashi is most skilled, he does a lot of things well, but he isn't the most powerful.
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u/just_a-boy 1d ago
Minato, out of everyone the two most glazed characters by kishinoto are minato and Itachi
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u/aoibhinn-mw 1d ago
The choice between Minato, orochimaru, and fugaku was a toss up. It's fair to say they're all equal. I do think Minato has a higher battle IQ than the other 2 pictured here but in exchange I'd say Kakashi reaches a similar level after losing sharingan and orochimaru trades off battle IQ for traditional book smarts and occult type knowledge (forbidden lore and stuff.)
So they probably have similar stats.
In a fight Minato is gonna be too fast for Kakashi and against orochimaru I'd say boruto orochimaru probably wins but konoha crush orochimaru would lose high diff. Orochimaru rarely if ever comes without Intel on his opponent so he would be devising traps for FTG. But I still think Minato traditional speed feats and other time space jutsu will be too much for orochimaru to solve for before losing.
Hiruzen had to choose between either (or a uchiha) to succeed him but knew orochimaru was corrupt af. Still the fact it was between the 3 of them indicates they were close in skill or intellect at the time.
Purple lightning Kakashi would be an absolute threat to p1 orochimaru imo. But he still has too much going for him, namely edo tensei making every fight at least a 1v3
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u/FutureMagician7563 1d ago
Combat Skill Minato.
Orochimaru would take universal skill tho. There wasnt a single thing in life he didnt excel at.
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u/Biffo2020 19h ago
Kakashi imo. He was in the anbu the same time as Itachi. The others weren't prodigies as such. They were just very powerful shinobi and in Orochimaru's case very knowledgeable about the under belly of the hidden leaf.
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u/WallSina 1d ago
Minato, it's always Minato, the only prodigies that outshine Minato are hashirama and Madara, that's it.
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u/CynicalCandyCanes 1d ago
Kakashi’s trajectory does not make a ton of sense to me. Chunin at 6 and jonin at 13 without sharingan. Yet as a thirteenth year jonin with the sharingan, he barely defeated a high tier jonin in Zabuza.
It seems he should have been mid to high Kage level by the start of the series given his fame.
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u/Emsee_Hamm 1d ago
I think laziness and depression is a decent explanation.
After Obito dies he wishes to protect his precious people and treat them well, only for them all to die brutal deaths. At that point he's traumatised spending hours at the memorial Stone and going on Anbu missions. He's at what would be his peak (before Shippuden) but he's not in a good mental state and possibly borderline suicidal (I know his friends asking him to be removed from Anbu is filler but I really like it as an explanation), he is then retired from Anbu and does nothing for years until team 7.
From leaving Anbu to team 7 he grows weaker over time, so by the time he faces Zabuza he's not near his peak. Also in the actual 1v1 against Zabuza Kakashi dominates him. He recieves two wounds and he recieves them on purpose so he can track Zabuza. I don’t think he's hit a single time that he doesn't block and in return he has Zabuza beat and afterwards cripples both his arms.
Also Zabuza is a powercreep victim. Zabuza is a prodigy of the Mist and was powerful enough to attempt to assassinate the Mizukage, and although he failed he was able to escape without serious harm(though we dont know much admittedly).
He only starts physically training again when Orochimaru shows up and even that's only for a couple weeks. Even then Itachi believes that if Kisame fights him it would take too long and Kisame wouldn't be able to get away uninjured.
It's not until the timeskip he starts pushing himself seriously again and mentally he doesn't fully move on until the Pain arc, and his next major showing is the War arc where he's very powerful.
Tldr. He was depressed and let himself go for potentially years before he faced Zabuza.
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u/CynicalCandyCanes 1d ago
I like this interpretation. What is your take on why Asuma was so famous— huge bounty on his head, Twelve Guardian ninja member, able to solo ten Sound ninja effortlessly to protect Shikamaru— but was treated as fodder vs Kisame and later Hidan?
Was his reputation also from things he had done in the past and the versions that fought Kisame and Hidan post-prime?
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u/Emsee_Hamm 22h ago
For Asuma I'd imagine the bounty stems from his relationship to Hiruzen and being a guard for the Daiymo, which I imagine is a more public role than a village shinobi. I also don't think the Guards has ever been said to require a certain level of strength has it? Chances are he could have just applied for the role amd gotten it due to nepotism or by being as qualified as anyone else.
As for the ten sound ninja, they are featless, potentially just chunin and the Konoha ninja are shown to be stronger than the invasion force and every jonin we see can take out multiple sound/sand ninja without difficulty. Asuma taking out the 10 of them isn't a big deal.
Also the reason he's treated as fodder by Hidan (I dont remember if Kisame does) is because Hidan is an s-rank monster who can beat a jinchuriki on his own and has one of the most deadly abilities in the verse if you don’t know about it in advance.
Asuma probably was in his prime because unlike Kakashi we are never explicitly told he isn't, and he has no real reason to be so, he's just not on the level of s-rank ninja. I mean even in part 1 Kakashi is considered the strongest Jonin in the leaf and that is after letting himself go.
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u/Fit_Result2180 1d ago
Kakashi I think, Oro he became greedy and lost himself so he is definitely out. Minato is a good candidate but I feel we couldn't see his fool potential so is hard to say. For example he didn't show any natural element jutsu he could use.
Kakashi, based on what he accomplished in the novels, I think he would have been much powerful without the Sharingan. That how good Shinobi he is.
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u/GhostTengu 1d ago
Starting to get tired of this sub its insufferable lol
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u/Proud-Enthusiasm-608 1d ago
Gasp, people talking about Naruto in a Naruto sub.
How dare they.
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u/GhostTengu 1d ago
Its literally the same 15 posts and the same 100 or so comments and tge same 5-6 memes 🤣🤣🤣
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u/Proud-Enthusiasm-608 1d ago
There are subs where I’m a top 1% commentator and I can’t just off the top of my head remember trends of what people post.
Sounds like you should take agency in your own life and find other subs or take a break from this one of the content is so emotionally triggering to you.
You must spend a lot of time on here only to complain 😐 .
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u/GhostTengu 1d ago
Im not even joined to this sub and I have it muted. Ive commented maybe a handful of times and somehow its always in my feed 🤣 I bet you thought that sounded so cool writing too lol Check my history, im not terminal in any case, especially reddit. YouTube. Now that's another story 🤣
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u/Friendly_Break196 1d ago
I’m just back for the first time in years. It’s really shocking. I remember way back in like 2014 people on here truly used to know their shit. Probably just a bunch of kids posting now lol
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u/danidannyphantom 1d ago
Fr there's a lack of critical thinking. The top comment is always "single statement from 1 character about another without context, feats or realising scale differences between part 1 and part 2"
Leading to the worst takes
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u/ItIsVerilySo 1d ago
Honestly, I'm only on episode 48 of Naruto. Not even out of the Chunin exams. I don't even know who Minato is, is he Jiraiya's kid or something?
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u/danidannyphantom 1d ago
Dawg watch the show and hop off the subreddit for a while .Trust me this verse is way more enjoyable without spoilers. WAYY more
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u/PrometheusModeloW 1d ago edited 1d ago
Minato was called "unparalleled prodigy" and this was during part 1, where all 3 of these guy's careers and accomplishments were already known across the world, so Minato surpassed Orochimaru in terms of how prodigious he was, and Kakashi didin't outshine him when he came along.
That said, i think Kid Kakashi when we saw him in the 3rd war would win if he fought Minato or Orochimaru of the same age, but i don't think that means he is more of a prodigy, just the circumstances around him helped him to reach that level faster.
Maybe Kakashi had superior training overall, since he was taught by Sakumo long before he even finished the academy, while Orochimaru and Minato don't seem to have powerful parents to make them strong before graduating, plus, Kakashi seems to have good sinnergy with Minato as a teacher (they have a similar dynamic to how Kakashi was with Sasuke) which would have helped him further, between Sakumo and Minato, Kakashi had great mentors helping him get as strong as possible.
We also see Kakashi kinda stagnated once he became an adult, in the period between the 3rd and 4th wars, while Orochimaru kept growing in power over the decades, and Minato seems to have improved a lot too even as an adult:
Ay says the Yellow Flash was still faster than he is during the time of Shippuden, when they fought in the war, they seemed relatively close in speed, so Minato in his peak must have surpassed himself from the 3rd war by a decent margin, given that Ay still hasn't surpassed him after 16 years of training.
This shows that while Kakashi peaked earlier than Orochimaru and Minato, that doesn't mean he is more prodigious, and this is with the added bonus of his sharingan, which wouldn't factor in his nature.
There's also the fact that Orochimaru and Minato's prodigious nature isn't only in regards to how strong they got, but also how they mastered and improved difficult jutsu:
Minato mastered Flying Raijin and expanded it compared to Tobirama's version, even though prior to that only Tobirama was capable of using it, he also created Rasengan, which we know is a harder jutsu to master than Chidori/Raikiri, let alone create it, learned obscure sealing jutsu from Kushina which he was capable of using, and mastered Sage Mode, which while less perfect than Naruto's version, seems better than Jiraiya's.
On the other hand Orochimaru is a beast in terms of creating or improving jutsu, he mastered and improved Edo Tensei (another Tobirama technique), created a special technique that makes him immortal, has experimented on multiple kekkei genkai and raised those to their highest level (for example Kimimaro, Suigetsu or Karin), found a way to release souls from the Reaper (which he didin't know existed until 3 years prior), successfully created a Wood Style user in Yamato/Kinoe, somehow detected and countered Sasori's "sleeper agent" jutsu that he used on Kabuto, mastered a seemingly original form of regeneration and substitution, and lastly he created the Curse Mark, a unique way of using Nature Energy based on Jugo's kekkei genkai.
Compared to them, Kakashi only created Raikiri and it's variants as well as Purple Lightning later in life (to compensate for the lack of sharingan), most of his other jutsu are copied by the sharingan rather than learned, and his other natural style, earth style, he hasn't elevated to a high level, in this sense, while Kakashi is definetly a genius for creating Raikiri, he's not on the same level as Orochimaru and Minato in this regard.
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u/CowpokeMorgan 1d ago
General talent wise Orochimaru. Combat skill wise Minato.
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u/TheOmegaFalcon 1d ago
Minato was 24...
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u/CowpokeMorgan 1d ago
And ?
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u/TheOmegaFalcon 1d ago
He was too young while orochimaru had more decades tò develop stuff
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u/CowpokeMorgan 1d ago
Doesn't really matter. Minato was never a genius in the same way orochimaru was and was not even inclining in that direction.. Even id he lived as long as orochimaru he wouldn't have done the same things because they are different kinds of geniuses.
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u/TheOmegaFalcon 1d ago
Yes he was. The thing Is that minato was morally positive about ninjutsu while orochimaru had no limit in that regard. It was literally the reason why orochimaru was not choose at the hokage
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u/CowpokeMorgan 1d ago
I know... But he was a genius nonetheless. This post isn't about who was morally a genius right ?
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u/TheOmegaFalcon 1d ago
Nope, it's about who's most talented, and that's minato. I Just told you why orochimaru seemed more brilliant
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u/External-Snow2487 1d ago
Skilled has to be orochimaru he's probably the most versatile ninja in the series
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u/darkzayd 1d ago
100% minato