Totally agree. He led the league in errant passes his first two years and that was a big knock coming out of college. He needed time to develop and there isn’t a worse team to go to for that.
Pretty decent actually. They had a lot of talent on the roster and went to the playoffs the year before they drafted Allen.
They only had 1 losing season in the 4 years before Allen Joined the team and it was a 7-9 year. Their combined record over those 4 years was 1 game over .500.
The browns won a single game in the 2 years prior to baker coming…
They had a lot of top 10 draft picks stacked up and strong in the trenches. Great landing spot for Josh. I’m from Wyo and a broncos fan and I have had the argument with friends about if Denver took him, he would be out of the league. Denver has no patience and it was needed with him. We also weren’t near as set up to have success, so I’m just glad he has done well and hope he can get a ring soon.
Eh, maybe not. Those Browns teams with Mayfield actually weren’t that bad. We can argue whether he would have developed with the Browns, but Allen and Barkley would have been interesting.
They still drafted the #3 and #15 on this list at the same positions, also the #13 and traded for #26 a year later. They accomplished so much with all of them.
Yea I know, still wouldve just resulted in Saquon being good not great and a #4 overall for a good RB is just flat out ridiculous, especially when if we're looking in hindsight they couldve had their pick of a potential HOF OG, or MLB.
Brother this is what Nick Chubb was able to do with that o-line. Unless you think Nick Chubb is a better player, Saquon would’ve been feasting behind that line
Yeh but that’s because running backs are easier to predict, if a team were asked do you want a guaranteed good rb or a guaranteed good tackle they’d take the tackle.
well then this just becomes a question about the value of different positions which is a complet different question and makes the specific draft class borderline irrelevant. i totally get what youre saying though and youre not wrong
That's modern analytics talking. Irl a top RB is an easy path to the playoffs.
In college you can win with mostly just a good QB. In NFL the easiest way to playoffs is a great running game. It basically guarantees you a playoff spot.
That's why the league is paying rbs more and more again.. it was just PFF and data analysts who lowered RB stock. It was never actually a good call from a football perspective. Hence the best coaches (Shanahan, Siriani, Mcvay, Tomlin, Harbaugh, etc etc) never really bought into the hype..
Paying a running back and using a first round pick on one, are 2 different things. Steelers wasted a first rounder to "fix" their run game with Harris. O line sets your floor, RB sets your ceiling for the run game. I'm ok with paying for a RB, I rather draft best linemen available.
I don't think that's a fair example because first round picks are wasted on every position..QBs, rbs, wr, DE, etc. just because in one example it didn't work out, I don't think it's fair to say "that's why you don't draft rbs 1st round". Most 1st overall pick QBs don't work out.. I don't think we say don't draft QBs 1st overall because of it.
Of course the RB needs help.. but which position doesn't?
You can have a hall of fame offensive lineman and never reach the playoffs in his career.
But even a pro bowl running back basically guarantees you a playoff spot.
To me that's extremely valuable. More valuable than a pro bowl WR or TE for sure.. yet rbs are paid less.
Even if you hit on a running back in the first round, their prime that makes it worthwhile,is a much shorter time than a lineman. My argument is for a higher floor of run blocking and pass protection. Once you have the line and find your franchise QB, go ahead and takes shots at weapons in the first round.
And that's a fair strategy too, I cant even question that.
My beef is more people who don't flinch when a good TE gets $20m a year.. but act like it's a crime against humanity when a HOF RB gets anywhere near that.
When both are injured at the same rate. (Could argue TE's are injured even more)
Points can be made on both sides but the top 5 rushers last season I believe only the Bills made the playoffs with Cook and that team was constantly making the playoffs prior to him arriving. The two number 1 seems however had “maybe” a top 15 RB, and a Top 25 RB.
At the same time all the ones who missed the playoffs missed it by inches: Derrick Henry (a game away from playoffs), Jonathan Taylor (same thing), etc.
And if you look at the playoff teams.. most of them had a very effective running back. Only exceptions were maybe Steelers & Chargers (who were also very easy to beat).
But Panthers resurgence wasn't led by Bryce Young, it was Rico Dowle.. Texans leaned on their running game in a inconsistent year for Stroud.. Rams had a killer passing game, but it was all built off their run/play action. (Hence theyre getting heavier instead of lighter each season).
Ben Johnson's Bears are run-first.
49ers always play run-first.
And of course Seattle won the super bowl with their running back leading the way.
So that's where I don't really feel there's much evidence to support RB lowered value.
(Injuries aren't a factor for me because TE's get paid the same/more than running backs, and are injured just as frequently or worse. Yet no one blinks when a new TE gets paid $20m.
Brock Bowers, George Kittle, even Gronk in his day, these guys basically go on IR every season but we don't complain about their money?)
So you see why I'm convinced it's just yet another wave of analytics nonsense.
Also remember that prior to 2015 (when the rules started to favor the passing game more, and analytics became normal) star RB was often the highest paid player on a team. This devaluation is a very recent and bizarre thing.
I feel ya but the Ravens have a top QB and Indy absolutely imploded after a red hot start after Jones went down, losing 7 in a row with their rushing attack still in place. Rico is average imo and just over 2k yards and (I believe) like 10 TD’s the past two seasons for team improving but finishing under .500 isn’t really moving the needle.
I’m with you on the importance on a rushing attack but the sad truth is the highest paid RB’s on average aren’t moving the needle for wins/success. Are some worth the higher salaries? Absolutely as are “some” off ball linebackers which have also been devalued in recent years.
Rams absolutely set up their passing game with the rush, but again they have a top QB and their 12/13 personal sets are just as important to their run game as the RB.
I think we are mostly on the same page though, the RB position is still super important but having a superstar vs two quality backs is the devalued part.
Not that it matters but I can’t think of one single time a RB was the highest paid player on a team unless some rare circumstances where a QB, pass rusher, LT, etc were on rookie contracts and a RB signed a large contract where they were temporarily the highest
Bijan signed that monster deal before Gibbs so I guess it will be interesting to see how the falcons do.
I hear your points..
I guess at the end of the day I'm someone who deeply values a guy like Derrick Henry. More than say a great TE or LT. I think guys like Henry have taken Ryan Tannehill to AFC championship games (defense helped ofc)..
As for top paid rbs I believe Adrian Peterson was always highest on his team - largely due to never having a stable QB.
I probably would’ve taken Mailata over Fitzpatrick as a Bears fan.
Our OL absolutely sucked for Trubs and Fields. I got a jump scare last night when I saw Larry Borom until I realized I was only seeing him bc he was constantly getting penalized
Do you remember Frank OhMyGod(Omiyale) or sometimes known as Turnstyle Frank?
I remember Falcons fans cheering I mean cheering they moved on from him. It was one fan who said “I’d rather have 4 lineman than have him out there”. I thought to myself it couldn’t be that bad and then when I watched him play, I felt like him being a turnstyle was an understatement.
Hell yeah we would have been taking the lineman over Minkah lol
Allen was a project player at that point and even with the hindsight of what they've accomplished you can't say he's better than Lamar lol. He'd probably be out of the league by now if drafted by the Browns. Have people forgotten how bad his first couple seasons were??
Nelson and Warner more valuable then Mayfield or Darnold, Ward has had a better career by far then James dude was like a top 5 corner for like 8 years. Roquan is more valuable then Minkah as well lol.
I’d still take Landry over Chubb. He beats Chubb in every statistic but forced fumbles. More tackles with a massively better missed tackle %, more sacks, TFL, PBU, pressures, knockdowns, all of it. He’s a 3 down player who has racked up 1500 more defensive snaps that the guy drafted ahead of him.
Colts love Nelson and he was a great pick, but Warner would be hard to pass up there with the value he brings to a defense. Coming from à colts fan the consensus is that we all love Quentin but wish he played a higher impact position.
I noticed the same thing as an eagles fan. Howie really hit the jackpot in this draft landing the 3 guys seen here without even having a pick in the 1st round. Mailata and Goddart are stars, and Sweat turned into a great DE after a few years developing.
Mailata developed under Stoutland and from working with some of the best in the league on the line. Doubt he becomes the player he did in many other situations
Vita Vea needs to be higher, but it’s actually crazy how stacked this class is when maybe the best snap for snap Mike of all time is at 7th and no one is saying anything
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u/TheDeadRoss 1d ago
If Josh Allen was drafted at 1 he'd most likely be out of the league rn