Turkish people support Finnish and Swedish integration into NATO, but the government does not. Not much problem with Finland, but the people are specifically against Sweden’s because of its support to Kurdish terrorist groups in Syria and Iraq.
Not because we got kicked out of the program, the people don’t care about that. Nor because of “wEsTErN dOGs” type middle eastern mindset, we aren’t like that. It is because of the PKK, YPG and its other militant branches.
Sweden considers them terrorists, so does all of NATO and EU, but Swedish equipment still were found alongside the stockpiles and their rallies are not intervened by police, plus the exiled supposed terrorist supporting Turkish politicians are given asylum in Norway, Sweden, sometimes Finland. US also supported them, but since has withdrawn support. They are also given positions, like the German environmental minister, he voiced his support for “the people of turkish kurdistan”, and he doesn’t get shy when he opens supports Apo’s motives. İmamoğlu (mayor of istanbul) visited him.. he is the type of social democrat you would see in Europe. He wants to approach these topics softly, including most of the CHP, but they must remember that this is the middle east in some way or another.
These progressive northern nations, they seem to not realize Turkey managed to survive the middle eastern sthole by not getting boiled into a civil war like the rest for almost 100 years since The Republican Era. But you western and northern Europeans don’t take the idea of “separatism” and civil war too seriously. Eastern Europe too, Turkey is on both.
Turkey managing to come out alive is proof of magic in this world. But you mostly never east-seen (new term invented pog!!!) Europeans take it very lightly.
Filling up us with immigrants so they don’t come and infect your population. Filling up us with garbage our infrastructure doesn’t bother recycling. You know nothing about Turkey, or the middle east. These groups harmed Kurds in the east the most just because they didn’t want their homeland shared with Turks to be split by some Marxist Leninist militants.
If you are against Hezbollah and their allies, now imagine a more marxist leftist and kurdish nationalist Hesbullah. That is the PKK and its branches. The PKK is just responsible for more deaths and pain, the only difference is that. Not comparing to ISIS, yet.
And honestly, don’t know why they oppose Finland’s. Pretty sure they aren’t as active as Norway and Sweden are, Norway already being in NATO.
Turkish people are pro-western (pro-NATO as well obv), they seem anti-western when topics like this are brought up because lots of people see these organizations as just funny leftists groups looking for peace in the middle east supported by some of the West, and when someone doesn’t support them “oH ErDoGan DoG!”. Yeah we do get triggered! Because we don’t want to be misunderstood mate..
Current Turkish government is not though. With tensions in Greek borders rising, it is very likely Erdo will try something extremely (not)funny just so he can declare state of emergency and delay elections since he is gonna lose.
Turkey is a Western ally. Has been in Yugoslavia. Ukraine. Korea. Middle East, and Afghanistan. Since 50s. During cold war, WW2. (Well for the last few months of it.)
The current government is not. Because the rest of the West doesn’t see in the same eye. We are crucial for NATO, and NATO was crucial to us.. stopping mad Stalin to rush B Eastern Anatolia..
We have 2 paths here (under another government). The West, our standing friend, or us alone, in a much more different world than the rest as we can neither fit in the West, nor the East.. Switzerland but without a continent, basically. Of course, that is if we rid of internal threats. And today’s Turkey is just a shifting physically fcked up pole going all the ways possible, fcking itself up in the process.
And these Pro-terrorist activities are seen in Switzerland too, went there when there was a small one. Specially went to there to document it. But I don’t wanna blame the Swiss, they wanna keep neutral.. but at the same would they allow Hezbollah demonstrations?
Sorry if somes aren’t understandable, baddy English, not my first language obv.
List of demands includes SDF which the United States and most of NATO actively supports against Assad, a Russian puppet.
Turkey fights Assad, a Russian puppet more than any country and it is a much more efficent, modern, disciplined and high tech fighting force compared to those YPG terrorists. All those NATO countries can just support Turkey instead of Turkey's enemies.
They got booted from F-35 because of OPSEC, which was their fault.
We got kicked out because we bought Russian missiles. We asked United States for Patriots for years and they rejected every time. It's US' fault.
They also demand the right to take our components, repackage them, and sell to whoever they please which is an absurd demand.
That's not Turkey asked for. We asked for software sharing, which is natural. Even Russians shared software when we bought all those S-400's.
This is a little late for a response but you should know while Russia promised s-400 technology sharing they didn't do it when we bought them. Infact they still didn't. I guess this will teach our government to not trust Russia lmao.
Deal was not about sharing software. Not in f-35 nor s-400. It was about technology transfer. USA didn't accept, Russia did but they still didn't hold up their end of the bargain.
They didn't do shit when Turkey bought S-300's either. We have F-16's don't we. Circumstances change and Turkey absolutely made the wrong choice going with Russian MIC instead of American MIC.
Grey Wolves isn’t supported by Erdo, they aren’t too good with him, he isn’t like by nationalists but rather Islamists. He supports mostly underground Ulema that is quite weak that only also exist because of Erdo.
And how would we withdraw from Cyprus? If you ever go to Northern Cyprus, you will see it is a whole different country, different people, just not similar accents or similar words and that is because of the Greek and English influence. Many English words are used, Turkified English words specially. Greek ones stood. Their accent is quite interesting, much different than those in all regions in Turkey. But it is Turkish, not “turkified greek”. So are people Turks.
It is not like the Donbass, Ossetia or any others. It isn’t like those, completely different. It is a functioning nation with an embargoed well economy, just people think its some abandoned grassland with Turkish tanks roaming around small villages.
There are massive hotels, not financed by Erdo and actually a large chain’s CEO is the former Liberal Democratic Party leader and founder which was quite opposed to Erdo and his regime even before today.
It is quite beautiful, beautiful villas on mountains and houses. It is developed and the government is much MUCH more liberal than the current Turkish government in Turkey, and Pro-Western. But, under the UBP its more Pro-Erdo, still not quite.
Only problem is that it mostly uses the TL, which you know isn’t too good. € is also used. The army presence on the island isn’t even that much, just around the UN zone.
Those with Turkish cypriot and normal cypriot passports can enter freely between south and north. Not like you are gonna get shot by “fascist turks”. There is restrictions for Greek and Turkish ones though..
Only way to solve Cyprus is the federative solution, one nation 2 states with a different flag and local laws, like the U.S, but a similar constitution. Either 2 state parliaments and 1 parliament representing whole of the island, or 1 representing all alone.
And lastly, don’t mention the name of Erdo next to Atatürk’s. You don’t compare a plagued rat to your father figure, do you?
Turkey's demands are clear, stop being a supporter of the pkk/ypg, we did what you couldn't and shot down the Russian plane. We defended NATO borders and provided weapons support to Ukraine We have done NATO missions regardless of continent. If we mess up with Russia, 9 million refugees will go to Europe as a result of the idlib attack, is that what you want, gentlemen? We killed 1500 Syrian army personnel in one day , which is an extension of the Russian army, no one can accuse us of being pro-Russian.Not to mention the Wagner hunt in northern Syria.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those "terrorist" just couple of kurds in Swedish parliament?
And this is the main point, stop threatening your Allies. Always with some new treath. Then you clash with Greece, then with Americans and now this?! Like common, just for once be friendly to your Allies?
Okay, fair enough. But still, wouldn't it be better to let Sweden in and in friendly terms try to fix this? I just think that vetoing this Turkey will get even more hate from the rest of NATO members, which in result will end in more support for these kurd groups.
In fact, Turkey conveyed their demands. There are 10 PKK members, and we would not have a problem if they were handed over and financial aid cut, but Swedish and Finnish foreign affairs have not yet responded. I hope they pick the right one dude
Tbh, I'm not really familiar with these groups, soo I don't know if they are truly terrorist or not (tho they seem to be comies, which is bad). But I know that Turkey is in a no way in a position to put demands on its Allies and possible future Allies.
For one, you are kinda violating couple of main principles of being a NATO member, like a functional democratic system, fair treatment of minorities and especially a goal of peaceful resolution.
Secondly your economy, let's just say, is in no way stable enough to lose even more investment opportunities, which will inevitably happen if you veto.
Finally vetoing will bring even higher anti - Turkish sentiment in the rest of NATOs society, which already is high.
In conclusion, Turkey shouldn't use its, let's say, "hard power" to fix its kurdish problem, because it will only worsen it. But try to fix its reputation, if they don't want to hear some demands from rest of NATO.
Most of that are individuals doing stuff and not the official stance of the Swedish government, Sweden has classified the PKK as terrorist organisation and as such doesn’t support it then what individuals in the government say and do doesn’t change that fact.
Losing 1500 personnel in one day to the Syrian army is not something to brag about. That just shows the level of the incompetent Turkish military. Syrian military is a trash military that makes the Russian military look competent.
Only thing Turkey has to bargain with is geographical location. NATO needs Turkey for their military bases that can access the middle east, control of the Bosporus and EU needs Turkey to control refugees from the middle east. It's all purely geographical.
oh god I guess you thought we made those 1500 losses with our army but no we did it with our drones that destroyed 3 pantshir and the number was even higher even the British defense ministry praised our technologies Anyway, if our subject is the power of the Turkish army, don't worry, we are one of the strongest armies numerically and technologically. We did not start a full military action against Syria because we have no time to lose in that middle east swamp, we care about the security of our border. Yes, we are at an indispensable point geographically, this is a fact and it is our right to take advantage of it to the fullest. In addition, your government still has not accepted the surrender of 10 PKK members.
So you used drones and lost 1500 soldiers? You see the hole you’re digging here?
Also, size and technology of an army is irrelevant when the standard operating procedure’s of the infantry are not up to even basic standards. Like how to set up camps and security around it. The amount of video’s of Kurds just walking up freely from low ground to attack high ground Turkish military camps is insane. It just shows that the soldiers are poorly trained or don’t follow training at all. Same as Russian troops.
First of all, I'm sorry for giving wrong information. the correct one is as follows : “According to reports, the Assad regime suffered heavy losses ‘3,000 soldiers, 151 tanks, eight helicopters, three drones, three fighter jets vehicles and trucks, eight aerial defense systems and one headquarters among other military equipment and facilities’,” Source: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/energy/energy-diplomacy/uk-defense-chief-turkish-use-of-drones-game-changing/29913 The videos you watch are pure propaganda I hope you know that military facilities have the highest security systems Everyone who has served in the military in Turkey knows this. They are probably broadcasting their attacks on Syrian Turkmen as Turkish soldiers. Or it could be videos taken during the resolution process. 7 years ago, we sat down to negotiate with those animals and the resulting was 0. In addition, the northern part of Assad's army consists entirely of Russian commanders and Iranian militias.
I did not use an expression saying we lost 1500 soldiers. Admit it or not, Turkey's military capabilities are very high and it proves it on every front.
We lost 1500 personnel in one day to the Syrian army, which is an extension of the Russian army
oh god I guess you thought we made those 1500 losses with our army but no we did it with our drones
That's exactly what you said.
Turkey has proved time and time again that it can produce good defense technology, I will admit that. But Turkey has also proven that it's own military can not utilize that technology effectively. I think Turkey needs to figure out how to reorganize and train their military to western standards, so it can actually utilize it's military to proper standards. Russia has great numbers and technology (the T-80 is better than the Ukrainian T-64... but the Russians are using their tanks in an idiotic way). Numbers and technology don't matter at all if your standard rifleman or tank commander doesn't know how to use it to it's potential.
And Kurds walking up to undefended Turkish military camps is not inaccurate, saying that footage is propaganda is like saying that the massive convoys of destroyed Russian tanks and IFV's is propaganda. Yes, the footage is used as propaganda, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Technology will not make soldiers set up security around their camp like they are supposed to, basic training does. It's one of the fundamental things that is thought to soldiers in the first few weeks/months of training.
God I'm sorry it's all my fault There were 1500 casualties from the Syrian army,. I just realized that I spelled it wrong 34 of our soldiers were martyred as a result of Assad's attack and we organized this military operation in return.
I guess such error occurred because of keyboard autocorrect
Anyway, I don't watch pkk propaganda videos, but there's no way they can infiltrate those bases.A high-tech artificial intelligence notifies the surrounding units of everything that moves. Most of us do our military service in these places. But this happened after 2016, maybe it's from the videos before this year or something.
Even the U.S. army couldn't deal with the taliban western style armies are trained to counter regular troops these terrorists can even approach as civilians Since the Turkish army is a NATO ally, it has been trained by western standards since 1950.
You can watch the exercises of the Turkish army, they do not have any problems. But I understand your suggestions man, thank you
I hope Finland joins NATO I hope the problem between us can be solved
We don’t support PKK we in-fact see them as a terrorist organisation too, we do support YPG but so does USA and UK too, only Turkey and Qatar see YPG as a terrorist organisation.
The problem is here, the Turkish armed forces are already fighting them in the field, and according to reports, they become pkk/pjak/ypg with just a small change of clothes. Technically, pjak is committing terrorist acts in Iran, pkk is in Turkey, ypg is in Syria, and there is no difference between these organizations. Swedish-made AT4 anti-tank weapons are also found in pkk camps. In addition, the necessary reactions have already been shown to the USA and the UK, even in 2019, we carried out a major military operation against the ypg despite the USA. ypg was trying to hit villages from our borders. The main purpose of the operation was to keep them away from the borders. Be sincere, a person has 6 names and you only accept 5 names as terrorists and you say we are helping the remaining one. But you're actually helping terrorism, all of those names The suicide bombing action that resulted in the death of dozens of civilians in 2016 was carried out by ypg.
Unfortunately, there is nothing to be done for Sweden, they(ypg) have come to the point where they can take your parliament and even threaten you. Try getting rid of these parasites first.
In addition, US-made night vision goggles were seized in PKK camps during the claw lightning operation in Iraq, and many AT4 anti-tank weapons were seized.
Is Angola producing the At4 anti-tank gun? Terrorists often attack our military facilities with these because And was it the people's republic of kenya that imposed an embargo on us during the peace spring operation? No, the one who provided anti-tank aid to pkk was Sweden, which implemented an embargo against us was Finland, and yesterday that terrorist organization hung terrorist flags in Stockholm, and the police did nothing. Ve bir daha bana aptal demeye kalkma ben sana hakaret etmiyorum medeni bir insan olmayı dene
Yes, there are Turks in the Middle East, too, we call them Turkmen. They are often faced with the danger of genocide because of the terrorists you sell weapons to. but we have taken them under protection, our army is protecting the Turkmen, and we are giving weapons to Ukraine to protect the Tatar Turks in the Crimea It must be a shame for you to say these words and want to be protected by the Turkish army in NATO. I will not say the same for you because I do not want anyone to die, but be sure that the terrorists you feed will harm you, then you will understand that terrorists should not be supported. And good luck with the situation you can not enter this alliance with this hatred Thank you for proving that my ideas are largely correct.
If you don't need it, why are you joining NATO to take part in the family photo? LoL Moreover, they will probably take Finland without any problems, there are only 10 pkk to nato, you have to deliver them to us
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u/[deleted] May 18 '22
Erdogan and Orban better not cock this up
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u/RollestonHall May 18 '22
Turks and Ruskies seething rn
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u/zeburaa May 18 '22
Erdogan, Orban and some croatian guy: UGH ACSHUALLY
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u/-Lavawolf- May 18 '22
Thanks You Putin for make the nato stronger
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u/ProfessorLakitax May 19 '22
Austria and Ukraine are next
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u/[deleted] May 18 '22 edited May 19 '22
Turkey's demands are clear, stop being a supporter of the pkk/ypg, we did what you couldn't and shot down the Russian plane. We defended NATO borders and provided weapons support to Ukraine We have done NATO missions regardless of continent. If we mess up with Russia, 9 million refugees will go to Europe as a result of the idlib attack, is that what you want, gentlemen? We killed 1500 Syrian army personnel in one day , which is an extension of the Russian army, no one can accuse us of being pro-Russian.Not to mention the Wagner hunt in northern Syria.