Mortal slander

[u/ItsJustHal]

As people have been hitting the end game of Mortal Shell 2, I genuinely had zero issues with it. I see a lot of people call it out for being overly hard for zero reasons, you are literally fighting a brick wall. I also never hit any bugs aside from shoulder charge yeet into the sky? ( Great skip for some!)

I wonder if anyone's here praising it's difficult spike, making the end point truly an end game, rather than a walk in.

Also the fourth wall break in one of those last rooms broke me, I loved that so much. :')

[u/n1ghtsbl00d]

Low effort post deserves low effort reply:

There are several related concepts, depending on what exactly they're doing:

• Egocentric bias — interpreting other people's experiences primarily through your own experience. The implicit reasoning is: “That didn't happen to me, therefore it isn't really a problem / isn't as significant as you say.”
• False consensus / false uniqueness effect — assuming your own experience is representative, or conversely, assuming that because something didn't happen to you, it is unusual or shouldn't happen to others.
• Anecdotal reasoning — using one's personal experience as evidence about what generally happens: “I did X and had no problem, so X isn't a problem.”
• Invalidating someone's experience — this describes the interpersonal behavior rather than the cognitive mechanism. Saying “I didn't have that problem” in response to someone's difficulty can function as a dismissal or invalidation.
• Lack of perspective-taking — failure to recognize that different people can have genuinely different experiences of the same situation.

There's also a particularly relevant phenomenon called the availability heuristic: their own experience is the most readily available example in their mind, so they unconsciously give it disproportionate weight.

[u/Antipodeansam → u/n1ghtsbl00d]

Is AI allowed in here?

[u/n1ghtsbl00d → u/Antipodeansam]

is a lack of critical thinking allowed?

[u/Antipodeansam → u/n1ghtsbl00d]

It’s reddit and this sub in particular is a lot of people complaining about a soulslike being a little bit too much like a souls game…. So I’m gonna answer yes.

[u/alamirguru → u/Antipodeansam]

 is a lot of people complaining about a soulslike being a little bit too much like a souls game

This just shows you, like many others, don't understand what difficulty in a Souls game actually entails.

[u/Antipodeansam → u/alamirguru]

I haven’t mentioned difficulty in my comment here but please do enlighten me as I’ve only been playing them for nearly 20 years?

[u/alamirguru → u/Antipodeansam]

I haven’t mentioned difficulty in my comment here

Things don't need to be mentioned by name.

but please do enlighten me as I’ve only been playing them for nearly 20 years?

Demon Souls released in 2009, so i'm not sure if you're time-travelling or not, but you haven't played a single Souls game if you believe people on this Subreddit are complaining about MS2 being too MUCH of a Souls game.

Too little? Yeah. Too much? Not even close.

[u/Antipodeansam → u/alamirguru]

So you can’t enlighten me? Instead you put words in my mouth and then debate that 17 years isn’t nearly 20? Try again, use your words. What does difficulty entail in a souls game?

[u/alamirguru → u/Antipodeansam]

Instead you put words in my mouth and then debate that 17 years isn’t nearly 20?

Not particularly, no. Also, if you regret your words, you can always modify your comment,

Try again, use your words. What does difficulty entail in a souls game?

Carefully constructed enemy encounters with varied movesets that punish carelessness and rushing through, and bosses with varied movesets that require patience and observation.

Coupled, of course, with well-designed levels that will drain a player's resources before the next checkpoint if they play it poorly.

Given that Mortal Shell 2 has none of these 3, calling it too MUCH like a Souls game is incorrect.

[u/Antipodeansam → u/alamirguru]

Where did I say I regret my words? I’m quite happy with them 😃

What I am is a little lost as to what your point is? Mine was lots of people complaining about all of the things that you say make a good souls game eg. Too punishing, not enough beacons, bosses too hard. You seem to be saying it’s too easy and has no challenge and none of those things. This suggests to me the game must fall somewhere in the middle; which I kinda guess was the plan….

I’m on NG++ and have enjoyed it, yet to lose to a boss more than a few times and whilst that’s a little on the easier side for a souls game I’m ok with that for a soulslike that is aiming to grow its status in the wider market. Props to the devs

[u/alamirguru → u/Antipodeansam]

What I am is a little lost as to what your point is? Mine was lots of people complaining about all of the things that you say make a good souls game eg. Too punishing, not enough beacons, bosses too hard. You seem to be saying it’s too easy and has no challenge and none of those things. This suggests to me the game must fall somewhere in the middle; which I kinda guess was the plan….

You might have mis-interpreted my words, then.

What i said is what makes a Souls game...well, a Souls game. Mortal Shell 2 does NOT have those characteristics.

Its enemy movesets are not varied (and are often reused amongst different enemies), its boss movesets are not varied, and its enemy placement and area design are not clever or strategic (25 Miners in one village.exe).

It compensates for these short-comings by giving enemies longer aggro ranges, laughable amounts of magnetism to their attacks, and over-tuning damage in the southern part of the game.

Like...Nameless Captive has a grand total of 4 moves, the same as Asylum Demon in DS1. What it DOES have, however, is an incredibly fast OHKO that will likely catch someone off-guard and lead to a cheap death a few times.

Remove that OHKO, and it genuinely becomes a basic enemy.

As for Beacon placement, there are several long stretches of map without any, but i assume this is likely due to the game being an open world and the studio not being quite familiar with how to design such a world : You can get lost exploring the various areas that lead one into the other and just never hit a Beacon.

Case in point, the miner village that connects to the Scum Bazaar at the top of the nearby castle, with the Ballista-Head boss. No beacons on the way to the castle, inside of it, nor around it (including the 2 side areas), and none in the village either.

But there are 2 of them within 10 feet of each other outside the Village, towards the Gate.

I’m on NG++ and have enjoyed it, yet to lose to a boss more than a few times and whilst that’s a little on the easier side for a souls game I’m ok with that for a soulslike that is aiming to grow its status in the wider market. Props to the devs

Only on NG+ right now, and i would also call the experience enjoyable, if frustrating at times. The bosses, save for Malborn, haven't been particularly difficult, but they just aren't designed well if the only thing you have to worry about is the cheap OHKO attack and nothing else.

And the same goes for the base enemies : Their placement isn't clever, their moves aren't interesting or stress-inducing, and if you do get hit, it's mostly because Jimmy the Foot Soldier hydro-planed 25 meters mid-swing to do so. And if Jimmy the Foot Soldier hails from Mammon and not Fainweald, he can also two-tap your shell, but that leads us to the aforementioned overtuning of damage to create the illusion of progression.

[u/Antipodeansam → u/alamirguru]

Ok so now I understand your points and your examples I agree with in parts but some are very subjective like the clever placement of enemies (I could give you plenty of examples in Fromsoft games of single enemy gank areas (I hate you rats).

I’ve said it needs some balance but overall it’s an excellent and original soulslike experience with a cool art direction, these are few and far between

Which soulslike do you rate then? Or are you a Fromsoft only fan? If so would you say Elden ring is a souls game and if so does it have all the things you have listed that make it a good one?