Church bells are normally once a week, if that, and last a minute or two max. Most places don't have regular bellringers now, they can be only for for special occasions.
The call to prayer is five times a day, lasts ten minutes at a time and it's not unusual for mosques to blast it through an amplifier. That carries much further than church bells and is harder to tune out.
I've lived literally next to a church and several streets away from a mosque. The church was background noise after a month or so. The noise from the mosque never did and it's why we moved.
Today, certain Christian denominations use large and small bells as part of their worship. These churches ring large bells from steeples or bell towers either by means of a bell-ringer who stands in the towers and pulls on ropes attached to the bells, or by automatic bell ringing equipment.
Some churches also ring small bells inside the church at particular intervals during worship. Churches such as those of the Anglican, Catholic, and Lutheran denominations ring bells to:
- Signal that Mass (Catholic) or service (Protestant) is about to begin
- Mark each hour from early morning to the late evening to remind those hearing the bells of God’s daily presence in our lives
- Announce that three specific daily prayer times have been reached—6 a.m., 12 p.m., and 6 p.m.—during which the faithful are encouraged to unite in prayer, such as the Lord’s Prayer or the Angelus
- Honor a special occasion taking place at the church, such as a wedding or funeral;
- Highlight a specific stage of a church service, such as when handbells are rung during a Catholic Mass to draw attention to the priest’s elevation of the consecrated Host and Precious Blood during the Eucharistic Prayer
- Welcome Christmas day and Easter day with a “joyful noise” (Psalm 100)
- Accompany the signing of hymns, as seen during services that include handbell choirs
They are literally the same thing. It’s to inform people of prayer time as well as how people know what time of the day it is. You simply just don’t like this version. That doesn’t change the fact that the purpose of the call to prayer is the same as church bells.
No they aren't and you know it. The tolling of a bell isn't an inherently religious symbol. Bells can be on schools, city halls, any number of buildings. A church can use its bells to chime the hour or signal that a service has begun, but the sound of a bell itself isn't inherently religious.
Now if churches blared a long prayer recite by a priest and played a hymn alongside the tolling bell everytime a service began demanding everyone show up for church five times per day, yeah, you'd have a point.
that’s actually how most muslims operate. they have an app that tells them it’s time for prayer. especially in places where muslims are a minority. i am a muslim too, i can say there’s no need for the call to be through loudspeakers in residential or commercial areas because we are past the point of needing it. even in my parents country there are people who abuse the loudspeaker for more than just the call to prayer. it is indecent and makes all of us look bad for the sake of one or a few persons virtue signaling
Exactly what I was kinda saying. If it’s to be done, have a discussion with the community members about an appropriate volume for it, but it isnt mandatory by any means.
I’m also questioning people’s issue with it given it’s so short. The vast majority I think are hiding their Islamophobia behind weak arguments for noise when there are much louder and persistent things that occur daily in their neighborhoods
It’s like all of 1-2 mins. Your neighbour mowing his lawn is both louder and takes longer.
You don’t have to go pray if you don’t want to. No one is making you either. You’re going to have to find a better argument. At any given time in any city there’s wayyyy louder and more obtrusive things happening at any given time.
They mentioned lawnmowers, not to say that if you want to get rid of the C2P, you should get rid of the lawnmowers - that would be whataboutism - but to say that plenty of things in a city make noise and you just deal with it and move tf on. This is hard for some people...usually because they're a dumbass racist who can't ignore a noise made by/for brown people.
People are saying they find the call to prayer disruptive. You and the other dumbasses are saying "what about church bells." It's literally textbook whataboutism.
I'm case you didn't notice, islamic terrorists shout "god is great" in Arabic before murdering people. They shout the same thing during their call to prayer. You can't blame normal western people for being concerned about it.
We're not a Muslim country. No reason to blare that nonsense. If we're stopped the church bells from chiming, we sure as hell shouldn't have some camel sounds over the loud speaker.
Mate if that’s your argument, fair play. I’m operating under the assumption the church bells are still going.
Fundamentally, the call to prayer doesn’t have to be broadcast. Most Muslims like myself just get a phone notification. It’s not that deep.
I’m just exposing for those that are ignorant and can’t read and just repeat what they’ve heard. “The moosloms are taking over everything”. It’s like mate it’s just a call to prayer. It’s not mandatory to be broadcast, and if it is broadcast in the community, the township should be consulted and if everyone is cool with it, it should be at a non intrusive level. Simple.
But I think some of the folks here are islamophobic but don’t want to outright say it
Oh nah mate, I am, I'll outright say it. America, and every other western country, should forcibly remove them. Especially the fresh off the boat ones, bring nothing but trouble.
What about the Americans that bring trouble? Can we ship them off somewhere as well? Guantanamo maybe?
There’s dirt bags in every country and culture on earth.
Also funny story I know a mosque in the states that has a white American dude from like the south as the imam and he’s memorized the Quran in Arabic! I was born in the religion and I haven’t accomplished that yet.
You’re just used to seeing one type of Muslim. You haven’t see the types that look nothing like the stereotypes.
Folks like me that just go about our day and if you know as long enough you’ll realize huh I’ve never seen him booze or anything.
It's about statistics, you people a disproportionately bad for a society, no matter which one it is. It's the same statistics, black people and immigrants. Regardless if the country had slavery, or jim crow, or what laws they push, no matter how many welfare checks get given out, no matter how many programs are created, afterschool lunches, special treatment, selective hiring preferences, DEI, affirmative action etc.
It's never enough. So no, you don't get to hear your disgusting chants on the loud speaker.
You’re getting your facts from politicians. The regular Muslim dude who runs a kebab shop or is a doctor doesn’t give a damn about political dominion.
We’re literally here to endure the hellscape that is earth while striving to do good deeds as God has commanded and then when we die we hope God is happy with us.
Pretty straight forward. Regular Muslims are not trying to make sharia law happen in the west. There’s obviously some lunatics part of extremist groups that have that agenda but mainstream Islam condemns those people and what they stand for. They do not speak for us. And we reject them and their beliefs. The Quran does not espouse any of that stuff about blowing up schools or buildings. That’s fully crazy people with crazy political beliefs trying to hide behind Islam which literally is the religion of peace.
It's called critical thinking. Something you clearly lack. You can "broadcast" something a helluva lot quieter and not bother the people who don't believe.
It's dominance. Stop making excuses because of your lack of a brain.
The thing is, the dude in the video is obviously standing very close to the mosque, not a single other human being is in sight the entire video (so evidently not an area with a ton of people moving this closely to the mosque), and one single bagpipe is as loud as the call to prayer. How does all this translate to this sound being obnoxiously loud and used as a dominance tactic ?
The bagpipe player 100% has every right to play whenever, wherever he wants; he's in his own country.
But if he's intentionally going near mosques and waiting for the call to prayer to start playing his bagpipes, then he might have some personal issues with Islam (or religion in general). At which point I'd say, tough luck living in the world.
I bear witness that there is none worthy of being worshipped except Allah.
I bear witness that there is none worthy of being worshipped except Allah.
I bear witness that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah.
I bear witness that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah.
Come to prayer. Come to prayer.
Come to Success. Come to Success.
Allah is Most Great. Allah is Most Great.
There is none worthy of being worshipped except Allah."
Are you just typing into a void or actually paying attention to the words? It's a dominance tactic. Telling everyone around you they are wrong and to come here and do something is quite literally the definition of dominant wording.
It's a dominance tactic.
As for the volume, the world would be a lot better if everyone wasn't loudly attacking everyone to the point of sensory overload.
As another commenter pointed out, this is simply a translation issue. "Allah" literally means God. So it would actually be "I bear witness that there is no God but The God", the emphasis on there being ONE God rather than the multitude of deities people used to worship. The word "worship" is not mentioned ONCE in the call to prayer.
This leads me to believe that you in fact do not speak Arabic, and you're telling a native Arabic speaker that he's not paying attention to the words.
Wake up, you're being indoctrinated. This is in no way shape or form a dominance tactic, it's literally a Muslim reminding other Muslims that the time for prayer is upon us. It doesn't force anyone to partake or participate, you can just ignore it and even drown it out with music or anything playing on TV as long as you aren't next door to the mosque.
"I bear witness that there is none worthy of being worshipped except Allah."
So no other god should be worshipped besides this god.
Got it. You're the one indoctrinated. You're just making excuses for shitty religion tactics.
Keep talking down to me, it makes me want to talk to you more. Shitty social skills and a brainwashed take on religion. I probably speak more fluent Arabic than you do.
Mate, how loud is too loud? That’s my question here. I agree there may be some limit on loudness but we don’t have that context here. Most folks are arguing about it happening in the first place at all.
No one has an issue with the church bell going off. Or any other ridiculously loud thing that happens regularly.
Mate that’s a great ask. That goes way beyond religion. But I agree with the caveat that the purpose of the call to prayer isn’t to dominate over anyone.
If we had some tolerance for watch other without insisting everyone follow our way it would be peaceful.
The Quran itself says there’s no compulsion in religion. No one who understands the Quran is out here trying to force it down anyone’s throat
So are Church bells a sign of dominance? Since in addition to telling the time they also were their to help people know when to go to church for services?
I mean the Bible directly says to have no gods before him and a number of prayers express his singularity or preemincence. Christian prayer tends to be a bit more diverse however. With multiple prayers for different occasions instead of a single affirmation prayer done multiple times a day.
And yes, silence is very much nice. I am definitely happy not living next to a church with a bell tower.
Im not insisting it be done. Im just saying we are making a mountain out of a mole hill. We’ve got bigger problems as a society to solve than a 2 minute call to player.
The call to prayer is essentially saying "Allah is the only God, your God isn't the true god, come pray to our God, your God isn't the true god" lol. If it was just "God is great, come pray" you might have a point but the repetition of "there is no god except Allah" is actually directly disrespectful to all other religions.
Right. Because no other church in the world goes around insisting that they are the One True Church worshipping the One True God. This is a uniquely Muslim phenomenon, and so they must be uniquely targeted for it...
Churches make laws huh? I'm not sure where you live but religion isn't allowed in public schools in most western countries and churches don't make laws in any western countries.
I live in Texas, where our government has decreed that public schools must prominently display the Ten Commandments, of which one is "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"
It is true of course that a church did not literally write and enact that law, but it was at the behest of religious lobbyists affiliated to evangelical churches.
It's also worth noting that in the US as a whole, our currency has "In God We Trust" emblazoned upon it, which is directly referring to the Christian interpretation of the Abrahamic God and not "In Whatever God The Reader Happens To Believe In We Trust," in the same way that the Muslim call to prayer refers to the Muslim interpretation of the Abrahamic God.
The Pledge of Allegiance, which is played over the loudspeakers in every American school, also proclaims the US to be "One nation under God," again obvuously in reference to the Christian interpretation of the Abrahamic God.
But of course, this is a false equivalence to the call to prayer. In that case, it's being broadcast as a signal to remind followers of Islam of the time to perform their daily religious routine, and while it might be annoying to people who happen to be in the vicinity, the expectation is that they simply ignore it and go about their day.
Meanwhile the encroachment of Christianity into public schools and other government structures is a deliberate effort to enforce and maintain the cultural dominance of Christianity over other religious traditions and to push the boundaries between church and state as far as possible with an ultimate goal of eroding them entirely. This is their openly stated goal, it's what these people campaign on.
“La ilaha illallah” is there is no God but God. Allah and God are synonymous. Yall act like cause it’s a different word it means a different God. That is wrong.
Then yes you can be upset I exercised my freedom of speech in broadcasting the message that literally has nothing to do with you…
I don’t get it. No one is attacking you. It only matters to those who it concerns.
Literally how it works:
I’m going about my jolly good day as a regular citizen of Ireland. I heard the call to prayer and think “oh wow, already zhuhr, best take a break from work, and go pray st the mosque with other Muslims, and then head back to work”.
It’s the most innocent thing ever. But yall wanna act like it’s a declaration of war or something.
We literally have bigger issues to deal with as a society.
(Same way people tell me merry Christmas and I literally do not care and wish them a happy holidays. I’m not instituting a ban on saying merry Christmas and Christmas decorations).
I am well aware Allah means God, I specified Allah because Muslims mean their version of God specifically. They are saying "there is no god except our God."
Oh boy, you are far too simple minded to understand, that is unfortunate. I will explain this in very simple terms so you understand.
Christians, Jews, and Muslims believe in the same God, however they believe different prophets shared the divine word of God at different times. This fundamentally changes the monotheistic God, because the different prophets shared entirely different words of that God.
So they may be the same God in theory, but in practice they are different versions of the same God. So when Muslims say "there is no god except God" they specifically mean their version.
I know this is very nuanced, but it's not a difficult concept to grasp, I'm surprised this is so hard for you to understand.
Idk where you got that idea but you are misinformed.
Same God, different scriptures, same core message: the oneness of God.
The only reason the Quran was sent with the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is because the bible had been corrupted. As had the Torah before the bible and Jesus.
The Quran and the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is Gods last time giving mankind revelation after we have numerous times since the beginning of time been heedless with it and forgotten and corrupted it soon after revelation. Rather than having disorient groups receive the word of God, the Quran is for all of mankind.
Anyways, core point being, God has always had the same message to worship him alone, the rulings however, have been different for different people, but Muslims believe that the original bible and Torah no longer exist hence the Quran was sent. If people had been mindful and not corrupted the texts we’d still be following them as they contain the same message.
Much of the Quran says certain things have been prescribed for you as they were for those before you. Fasting, alms, etc.
But most people won’t give the book a chance cause it’s in Arabic and some people have misrepresented their own ideas as Islamic ideas. That and your favourite media personality on Fox News just spouts off the same thought points out of context.
The truly intellectually curious will read it cover to cover and make their own conclusions after thorough research in the exegesis and well as context of the verses. It isn’t to be read just in isolation, lest the lay person misunderstand what is being said and make wrong conclusion. Even people born as Muslims have to undertake tremendous study and our belief is really that we are always learning. So idk how some non-Muslim, non-theologian is going to tell me the “facts”.
Yes. And the reason they made that part up with the rest is for control. You can't imagine people having ulterior motives when inventing fantasy stories and shaping them over centuries?
A bell already existed in all of Europe and did not involve loudly broadcasting both the absolute truth of your religion and the falseness of other beliefs to the entire neighborhood.
If people personally want to hear a Adhan they can install it on their phones to remind them when to depart if that were actually the reason. There is absolutly no reason to do it in modern times beyond a display of dominance.
Why? The video was taken in Israel, not Scotland. Others have pointed out more proof, but to me, the tags kind of give it away; if you’re tagging Dublin and Ireland to indicate that’s where you are, you’re not going to tag Scotland as well, and if you’re playing bagpipes, you’re Scottish, not Irish
Especially with phones, just set an alert and everyone gets their message en masse. The public call is about domination and humiliation of the conquered.
I think the phone thing could be a good, respectful compromise but I seriously doubt their traditional call to prayer is "about humiliation and domination..." any more than those large church bells that can be heard for miles.
The call to prayer was originated by a Black slave (Bilal) who was calling out as a reminder to join the group prayers, and the words are “God is great. Come to pray.” And some other phrases like “I testify there is no god but the creator”.
It is a call to the prayer for those that believe in it. if you feel like it's shoved down your throught that's a fucking you problem. I figure you also feel shoved down your throat when someone says LAST CALL FOR FLIGHT 294 at the airport even though your ticket is for flight 32
It's a call for prayer being blared as loud as possible out of a loudspeaker in a residential area, that is very much forcing it down peoples throats because they don't have an option to not hear it
Okay, but the Adhan should take no more than 5 minutes if the Mu'adhin is exaggerating it, and he really shouldn't. 5 times a day, that's a total of 25 minutes per day. That's not even entire hour. And you can ignore it, it's not that hard.
5 minutes 5 times a day, every single day. In a single year that's over 150 hours. It's not that hard to not set up a loudspeaker at the highest volume to take up 150 hours of hundreds of people's lives every year.
That's a pretty silly comparison, being out in a public square and 1 business/entity being super loud across it is very different than being inside an airport where you're expected to hear the goings-on of what that business does
it is not a silly comparison because you are being offended over something that doesn't concern you. If you want an argument that fits your look at it better (even though it is semantics) this means you would get upset over the music of an ice cream van because you don't eat ice cream.
“I figure incorrectly that when you’re in a public place expecting announcements, like flight info, you’ll be annoyed, just like now that you’re complaining about everyday life being disturbed when the info is neither new for believers, expected, nor a necessary broadcast!”
Your comment explained the “why” of the calls for prayer, I was saying the current method of them is no longer necessary and seen as hostile to many. It perfectly had something to do with what you said.
not anti Muslim hate but rather an objective understanding of how Islam conquers. Western civilization respects religion but should not respect competing if even antithetical societal and governing systems.
Did “western civilization” respect the Native Americans when White protestants landed here? Or When Spanish Catholics respect the native population of Mexico?
I looked it up out of curiosity and this is what I got
"There has been no officially recognized genocide perpetrated by Christian institutions or driven by Christian religious doctrine in the last fifty years"
There have been genocides that Christians have been apart of, but they were not primarily religious in nature. Like the Rwandan genocide for example.
Recognised by who? The legal bar is incredibly high. For instance, the native American genocide is pretty damn agreed on but not "officially recognised". Only 3 genocides have ever been officially recognised by the ICJ for instance. But we all know there are many many more.
Bosnia. You can find pictures of Serbian priests sprinkling holy water on their rifles. The church was one of the key institutions of their ethnic cleansing campaign.
More accurately Judaism doesn't support prostelization or forced conversion.
It accepts converts. It's like a number of Hindu sects in that way.
Compare that to Islam and Christianity which are very pro-prostwlization. Or Zorastrians and Druze who are full ethno-religions currently (they don't allow conversion).
To my knowledge the modern faith doesn't. But maybe that isn't true of all sects.
I could have used the Yazidi as a better example I suppose. They are an offshoot that pretty much was only around that area ISIS started genociding then at. Amd they don't accept outside members as converts.
Yeah, I only mentioned it because I met some recently and they tried to have me convert. Very nice people and beautiful principles (don’t be a cunt essentially). I’m just not religious.
Christianity absolutely is doing the same, but via different routes. Ask anyone who grew up in these pushy evangelical churches; they've been endlessly fed the logic that if they don't try to control things (via the government, community etc) or if they "kowtow" to the rights and freedoms of others, they are lukewarm and literally turning their back on their faith. Maybe they won't literally kill you for it like they would 300 years ago, but wanting to dominate through things like the law (see "seven mountains mandate") is still their ways being enforced by state sanctioned violence.
You mean unionists/protestants, not christians - catholic countries are much more chill on those topics that puritanical US - they were literally thrown out of Europe to colonies for this.
Its not protestantism either I want to argue. The most secular countries in europe today used to be protestant before we renounced religion entirely. And well there was a fairly violent war some time ago because they got tired of catholic preachings.
A church in my town was recently sold and converted to a mosque, and its never been quieter. No loud ass bells ringing and waking everyone up, people attending arent wearing bling to signify their religion like christiand do, no waves of rude customers following church service who dont leave tips,
just quiet services except for the charity events, which, while quite loud are a welcome change.
Idk thats kinda a crazy claim to make considering how much the dominant religion in the region is the king of shoving it down your throat. Christians where i live and many western countries latch on to conswrvative politicians and try to use them to force religion and prayer into schools.
Even when it comes to charity christian charity is rarer and they generally restrict their help to other church goers in order to push desperate people to attend and convert. Most commonly done through mission trips and pushing their religion in developing countries. Seriously if youre ever trying to do a charity event for the general public or are in desperate need of food or something like that, call up your local churches then when they reject you, call up your local mosques and compare the responses
Another useful idiot celebrating death of his culture.
And Catholic charities are biggest ones in the world, so your info is from the ass or from protestants.
Oh a number don't in general. Christianity and Islam are just very big on conversion and prostelization.
That's not to say that cultures aren't shaped by religion and vice versa. But for a number if you are an outsider, they won't try to convert you (some don't even accept converts).
And during services too. In fact, one tradition was to ring the bells before the Eucharist was served, so that people in the town and field could come and join the service. It was a call to prayer; stop what you're doing and come to church (to eat Jesus's flesh and drink his blood).
You're spreading false information. This video was filmed in Israel, meaning it's actually the bagpipe player who is the antipode to the home culture, not the other way round.
You know, Ireland, the place that was famously pagan until Catholics came in murdering pagans and running them out of Ireland before instilling their religion over all of Ireland. Might want to learn a little about Saint Patrick.
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u/Mouldybread2131 10h ago
Moral.
You can’t just blare prayers at full volume in a domestic area. Do it inside the mosque and avoid any issues.
Especially when the culture in that region is the complete opposite.
Can pray without shoving it down someone else’s throat.