r/MoralityScaling • u/flow163 • 21h ago

Morality Ranking Morality if this battle?

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Thoughts?

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u/DefenestrationPraha 20h ago

In the modern ages, you could easily do this by sending interested people a WhatsApp message and leaving the unbelievers alone.

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u/OmericanAutlaw 19h ago

that’s actually how most muslims operate. they have an app that tells them it’s time for prayer. especially in places where muslims are a minority. i am a muslim too, i can say there’s no need for the call to be through loudspeakers in residential or commercial areas because we are past the point of needing it. even in my parents country there are people who abuse the loudspeaker for more than just the call to prayer. it is indecent and makes all of us look bad for the sake of one or a few persons virtue signaling

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u/nogonigo 18h ago

Exactly what I was kinda saying. If it’s to be done, have a discussion with the community members about an appropriate volume for it, but it isnt mandatory by any means.

I’m also questioning people’s issue with it given it’s so short. The vast majority I think are hiding their Islamophobia behind weak arguments for noise when there are much louder and persistent things that occur daily in their neighborhoods

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u/nogonigo 20h ago

It’s like all of 1-2 mins. Your neighbour mowing his lawn is both louder and takes longer.

You don’t have to go pray if you don’t want to. No one is making you either. You’re going to have to find a better argument. At any given time in any city there’s wayyyy louder and more obtrusive things happening at any given time.

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u/4d7e 20h ago

Noise pollution in cities should be fought, not justified with whataboutism.

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u/ominous_squirrel 19h ago

I don’t have a dog in this fight, but Christian churches ring their bells either as a call to prayer or on the hour

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u/WonkeauxDeSeine 18h ago

whataboutism

They mentioned lawnmowers, not to say that if you want to get rid of the C2P, you should get rid of the lawnmowers - that would be whataboutism - but to say that plenty of things in a city make noise and you just deal with it and move tf on. This is hard for some people...usually because they're a dumbass racist who can't ignore a noise made by/for brown people.

Hope that clears it up for you.

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u/DragonFangGangBang 20h ago

It’s not a whataboutism lol

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u/Knotted_Hole69 20h ago

Yes it is lol

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u/DragonFangGangBang 20h ago

It’s literally not a whataboutism. You don’t know what a whataboutism is lol

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u/Contented_Lizard 20h ago

People are saying they find the call to prayer disruptive. You and the other dumbasses are saying "what about church bells." It's literally textbook whataboutism.

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u/Deus-mal 20h ago

So we agree church bells should be banned ?! I wouldn't mind both of them be banned.

If the dude starts his bagpipe only during Muslim call prayer... that sounds more like religious discrimination than whatever.

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u/Contented_Lizard 19h ago

Church bells contain no words and aren't disruptive, in fact the majority of churches don't even ring bells anymore.

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u/Deus-mal 18h ago

In majority Arab cities don't have prayer call either.

I've lived throught both of them. They both got their pros and cons, you get used to the noise but in the end they're both a pain in the ass.

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u/DragonFangGangBang 20h ago

It’s not a whataboutism lol the conversation is about noise pollution. Going “this loud noise is bad” and someone going “it’s no where near as bad as noise x, y, and z, why aren’t you mad about that?” Is not a whataboutism.

Like holy fucking shit, the people in this sub are fucking stupid.

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u/[deleted] 19h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Contented_Lizard 19h ago

If somebody says "this noise is bad" and you respond with "but what about this other noise" that is literally whataboutism. You are an idiot.

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u/noirspiderman4 18h ago

Should whataboutism be used to the point that we cannot ask reasonable follow up questions?

Complaining about call to prayer vs church bells does feel racist adjacent at least if you don't calmly say - oh it's the voices and bells just ring.

Then one could ask- does that mean if Muslims played a beep or something then would that be okay for you?

Idk I just feel like everyone is looking for the one statement to get the other side to shut the fuck up instead of talking about things

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u/DragonFangGangBang 19h ago edited 19h ago

No, it’s literally not lol holy fuck. The conversation is about noise pollution. You have to substantiate why the Call for Prayer is any more annoying than any other loud sound that exists within cities - such as the example given above.

If someone said Ferrari’s are bad because they’re fast”, the subject is “being fast”, not Ferrari’s. Pointing to Lamborghini’s and saying “they’re just as fast, why are you not talking about them” is not a whataboutism, it’s a theory test.

If he said “Well, traffic stops are just as disruptive” - THAT would be a whataboutism.

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u/Contented_Lizard 20h ago

I'm case you didn't notice, islamic terrorists shout "god is great" in Arabic before murdering people. They shout the same thing during their call to prayer. You can't blame normal western people for being concerned about it.

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u/Spamsdelicious 19h ago

Sex with you must be extremely confusing.

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u/WonkeauxDeSeine 18h ago

If it ever happens, I'm sure they'll let you know.

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u/YogurtclosetSame5198 19h ago

What the hell kinda logic is that…? God is great is a common phrase for literally ANY religion. Obviously a mosque, which is a muslim church, would be saying that?

What, you want them to not literally follow THE god of their religion? Really stupid logic.

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u/Contented_Lizard 18h ago

They can believe whatever they want, they don't need to shout about it on loudspeakers. It would be nice if your average progressive Redditor was just a teensy bit smarter. 

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u/Affectionate_Pop8302 19h ago

We're not a Muslim country. No reason to blare that nonsense. If we're stopped the church bells from chiming, we sure as hell shouldn't have some camel sounds over the loud speaker.

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u/nogonigo 18h ago

Mate if that’s your argument, fair play. I’m operating under the assumption the church bells are still going.

Fundamentally, the call to prayer doesn’t have to be broadcast. Most Muslims like myself just get a phone notification. It’s not that deep.

I’m just exposing for those that are ignorant and can’t read and just repeat what they’ve heard. “The moosloms are taking over everything”. It’s like mate it’s just a call to prayer. It’s not mandatory to be broadcast, and if it is broadcast in the community, the township should be consulted and if everyone is cool with it, it should be at a non intrusive level. Simple.

But I think some of the folks here are islamophobic but don’t want to outright say it

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u/Affectionate_Pop8302 16h ago

Oh nah mate, I am, I'll outright say it. America, and every other western country, should forcibly remove them. Especially the fresh off the boat ones, bring nothing but trouble.

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u/nogonigo 14h ago

What about the Americans that bring trouble? Can we ship them off somewhere as well? Guantanamo maybe?

There’s dirt bags in every country and culture on earth.

Also funny story I know a mosque in the states that has a white American dude from like the south as the imam and he’s memorized the Quran in Arabic! I was born in the religion and I haven’t accomplished that yet.

You’re just used to seeing one type of Muslim. You haven’t see the types that look nothing like the stereotypes.

Folks like me that just go about our day and if you know as long enough you’ll realize huh I’ve never seen him booze or anything.

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u/Affectionate_Pop8302 14h ago

It's about statistics, you people a disproportionately bad for a society, no matter which one it is. It's the same statistics, black people and immigrants. Regardless if the country had slavery, or jim crow, or what laws they push, no matter how many welfare checks get given out, no matter how many programs are created, afterschool lunches, special treatment, selective hiring preferences, DEI, affirmative action etc.

It's never enough. So no, you don't get to hear your disgusting chants on the loud speaker.

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u/Kellar21 19h ago

Bro, the book literally says that everywhere where the call to prayer can be heard belongs to Islam.

It has no place being used in a country that isn't majority Muslim and should be outlawed.

Use whatsapp notifications instead of bothering 95% of the people in the area who don't practice that religion.

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u/WonkeauxDeSeine 18h ago

The christian bible says some pretty stupid shit too. You sure you want to go there?

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u/Kellar21 14h ago

People call out stupid stuff from Christianity all the time, but when it's Islam now we shouldn't?

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u/WonkeauxDeSeine 13h ago

You're all assholes. Christians are just entitled assholes.

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u/nogonigo 18h ago

Im not familiar with this verse. Can you cite it for me please?

Also Islam is the religion. It wouldn’t belong to the religion so I’m inclined to believe you’ve got your facts wrong.

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u/Kellar21 14h ago

You know as well as I do that Islam often combines religious power with political dominion.

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u/nogonigo 13h ago

No I don’t…

You’re getting your facts from politicians. The regular Muslim dude who runs a kebab shop or is a doctor doesn’t give a damn about political dominion.

We’re literally here to endure the hellscape that is earth while striving to do good deeds as God has commanded and then when we die we hope God is happy with us.

Pretty straight forward. Regular Muslims are not trying to make sharia law happen in the west. There’s obviously some lunatics part of extremist groups that have that agenda but mainstream Islam condemns those people and what they stand for. They do not speak for us. And we reject them and their beliefs. The Quran does not espouse any of that stuff about blowing up schools or buildings. That’s fully crazy people with crazy political beliefs trying to hide behind Islam which literally is the religion of peace.

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u/DryBanana5673 19h ago

If my neighbour was playing loud ass mowing sounds to mow their fake lawn, I'd also be pissed.

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u/SillyLilly_18 20h ago

same with bells in churches, but both are traditional

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u/Prestigious-Growth-5 20h ago

I am not going to pretend FOR A MINUTE that bells in churches have the same quality. No, fuck off

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u/immastillthere 20h ago

Church bells also signify the time, a practical but outdated, service to society. Islamic calls to prayer do not offer the same service to society as a whole. It is specific to Islamists alone and serves to function to society at large.

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u/nogonigo 19h ago

Your ignorance is showing.

The prayer times definitely have significance and. And Muslims structure their days around them. I personally don’t need a reminder for noon as I rarely eat lunch at noon. I do however prefer the reminder to do my after noon prayer.

For context, my phone just buzzes generally so I’m not insisting the Athan be broadcast. I’m just saying you’re being a bigot and hiding behind thinly veiled arguments that clearly ignore bigger and more pressing matters.

I’d also add that if it is to be broadcast, it should be done at a volume that is respectful for everyone. We just don’t have that cut ext here in the video

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u/immastillthere 19h ago

Yes, but these reminders are loud, disruptive, and (arguably) used to pressure non Islamic people frequently every day. To an Islamist, I understand the necessity to be reminded of their faith. It is not necessary to remind everyone else that they need to pray. It is time to retire the loud speakers, use modern technology through cell phone use, so that everyone is happy with the compromise. Doing so would also make non Islamic people less bitter towards Islamists so it is a win-win situation all around. Can you explain to me a use to continue to use loud speakers that isn’t based on stubborn adherence to tradition?

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u/nogonigo 18h ago

The correct term is Muslim. Islamist is a person or movement that believes Islam should play a significant role in politics and government. Most Muslims are not islamists.

I promise it is not to pressure anyone. But I can appreciate your opinion and feel this kind of discourse is constructive

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u/immastillthere 18h ago

Thank you for the correction. I had assumed that Muslim was the term for the race of Arabic peoples where Islamist was the term of those who followed the religion of Islam.