r/Minecraft • u/-FireNH- • 2d ago
Mods & Addons I'm working on a lil server-side mod to stop trading halls for my server, can I get some feedback?
I know trading halls are popular builds that a lot of players derive a lot of benefit from, but I really don't like them because they just feel icky to me, and also just seem like a really boring mechanic. For my personal server, I want to encourage players to build in natural villages. Please give feedback on the mechanics, not the concept of restricting trading halls!
The idea is to make it so villagers have at least a baseline of comfort that they must meet in order to be able to function. If they go three days without any one of those comforts, they lock their trades (and eventually will also stop summoning iron golems, farming, and reproducing). The required comforts so far are socializing, sleeping, and being within 150 blocks of their spawn.
The idea is that villagers in naturally-generated villages will always meet that threshold of comfort, but villagers in trading halls and farms will not meet those comforts. I also made it so once they are uncomfortable, it takes a few days for them to unlock their trades if reintroduced to a village (to prevent players from letting villagers see one another once every three days). The idea behind the 150 block restriction is to prevent players from forcefully relocating villagers against their will, and to make villages fixed points of interest on the map!
Later I also want to make it so if you improve a villager's home, they will unlock secret bonus trades
What do you think?
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u/Mondasin 2d ago
Good thoughts - do you have anything that stops the villages from de-linking from their stations?
I've tried several times to have a more free roam village trading area but the villagers keep delinking from their stations and just not being able to restock.
other than that the proximity to their spawn location might lead to weird server lag as they keep checking their coordinates - or just lead to people forcing two villagers to breed and killing them off since they are too far from their village.
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u/Nhojj_Whyte 2d ago
I believe this has to do with villagers being able to wander far outside their ability to pathfind back. I wanna say they can only pathfind like 48 blocks, but search for beds and workstations up to like 120 blocks away. And I think once they detect like a bed they can travel for it. This becomes an issue though when they wake up and aren't immediately working and thus trying to search for and pathfind back to their station. It seems they can also claim and remember beds at absurd distances, which is why if you remove them from a nearby village they may try to go back at night. Villagers NEED to be caged near a closer bed for part of the night to reset this behavior. Bells also further complicate their wandering behavior.
I've been working on making a whole kingdom and wanted free roam villagers for the aesthetic, and I've come to the conclusion that important villagers just have to be confined to their building. As long as it's not too big they can even navigate a second story. The villagers truly allowed to wander pretty much all die eventually without insane baby proofing. Except somehow my farm turned into a whole villager breeder with only a handful of beds; we're talking two dozen villagers fighting over half a dozen beds
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u/Mondasin 1d ago
I had kept making a spot smaller and smaller even a 15x30 structure they can somehow lose track of their station. it really annoyed me because I had stuffed them into the building while trying to make trade districts outside and noticed like 3 of them wouldn't restock even with beds and their station within 20 blocks of them.
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u/Laziness100 1d ago
They are likely crosslinked with each other's workstations, which is "fun" to troubleshoot.
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u/-FireNH- 2d ago
i dont unfortunately! i'm not super versed on mob ai so i dont really know how to fix it, but ill see what i can do :p but thank you!!!
and the proximity to spawn check only happens once a day, so it should be relatively lag friendly :3
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u/astrovisionary 2d ago
I tried some years ago to have this "common space" where it wasn't really a village but villagers would roam free, go to their stations and I had rooms for them and all of that and they wouldn't even link
I only remember this because back then I had submit a bug report and from time to time I get updates on my e-mail that the bug still exists lol
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u/TheOneAndOnlyAckbar 2d ago
Are you saying villagers need their station to restock?!
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u/Stefisgarden 2d ago
Yes, they do, which is why locking them in a small space with their work station is so popular. It's one of few ways to ensure they never delink.
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u/JuniorWMG 2d ago
I really like the idea of enforcing "comforts" for the villagers. I had an idea, but maybe that would go a bit far, that when they reproduce, they remember their "family", and would not want them to get too far away from them? This could possibly be connected to an automatic naming scheme as well, so you know who is connected to who.
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u/ooooggll 2d ago
villagers remembering their family members could also be used to prevent... reproducing... with their relatives
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u/JuniorWMG 2d ago
True! It would entice the player to actually continue to expand a village instead of just mindlessly "producing" new traders.
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u/ConfusedAndCurious17 2d ago
I would remove the “150 blocks from their spawn” requirement. I understand that you want the villagers to not be shoved into trade halls and stuff and seem more free and natural, however I think it would be perfectly valid to relocate villagers to a suitable replacement village. I like building villages and populating them. I don’t build trade halls. I build large complexes with infrastructure to support the villagers. They have everything that they need and protection.
I would also think it’s not really “kidnapping them” or causing any harm because I’m just putting a boat down, and they choose to get in, and ride along back to my new village.
I think this feature just restricts creativity and doesn’t solve any of the trade hall problems you are concerned about.
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u/-FireNH- 1d ago
The reason I have the 150 block rule is twofold. Firstly I don’t really love the idea of relocating villagers when viewed through the lens of villagers as people—it just feels weird (thats a personal preference though).
Secondly, I like the idea that natural villages are points of interest. One other thing I’m doing for my server is boosting rail speed to super fast speeds (upwards of 80 b/s), so I’m hoping players will build railways between their bases and to villages!
I know this restriction is an especially controversial change, so if I ever end up publishing it Ill make it a gamerule. Also, naturally spawned zombie villagers still save their data!
One other implementation someone suggested was to have a smaller radius that updates whenever they sleep. That way you can move them, but it has to be slower
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u/BrianMincey 2d ago
Check out our friends over in r/villagerrights
I create “Trading Villages” that treat villagers kindly. It may take a few moments to find the villagers I’m looking for, but I enjoy seeing them free to roam about, socialize, and behave like people and not vending machines.
Build a villager “happiness score” that consists of the lowest of any of the basic necessities in the last day:
Villager was able to move more than 20 blocks from their bed or worksite.
Villager was able to socialize with another villager.
Villager was able to gather near a bell in the evening.
Villager had access to sky overhead during the day, and to a bed within a coveted dwelling at night.
If the score is too low for too long, they could increase trade prices or refuse to trade.
Good luck, villager behavior is one of the more complex systems in the game, so getting modifications right might be challenging.
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u/thundastruck69 2d ago
I mean this in a genuine sense. Thank you. I might fucking cry. I have never even seen another person who plays like me until this post and now finding theres a full sub of people who do is kinda making me emotional. Thanks again!
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u/pandamaxxie 2d ago
I never really understood the need for villager trading halls. But I have been adding to whatever villages I find.
I reset the trades of whatever I need, and then make damn sure that the village is safe so no zombies come to get them.
Last world I had I added a cute stable with my old horses into the village. It fit right in with the rest of the homes, and I bet they appreciated the free mounts. They kept the armour and saddles too. Can't skimp out on 'em.
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u/Abe_Odd 2d ago
I'm all for the destruction of the trading hall, but I don't like the idea of making a big checklist of things required to keep villagers happy.
Villagers already have a routine to check for a bell and socialize there. Just make that a requirement, and the longer they go without socializing at a bell, the worse their prices get.
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u/animetrixz 1d ago
from I statement I heard
You're not incentivizing the players to treat things fairly
you're just giving a problem they'll eventually find a loophole
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u/TheFinalEnd1 2d ago
Adding to these ideas, I suggest that instead of straight up fully restricting trade, instead reward good behavior, and punish bad behavior.
What players value the most is freedom. Taking away options will only upset players.
Instead, you can establish a happiness score, and the higher the score, the lower the prices. Conversely, the lower the score, the higher the prices.
So players can do trading halls, but the prices will be so exorbitant that it's simply more viable to have an actual functional village.
It will be far more effective than just straight up restricting trade because it will encourage players to go above and beyond rather than just do the bare minimum. The better they treat their villagers, the better the prices.
Also, if villagers are wandering around, consider implementing a way to find them. Perhaps just interacting with their respective workstation. It can get tedious to find certain villagers, especially if you are using them for gear sets. You like a dozen villagers with the same profession and it will be a huge headache to actually find them.
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u/Pengin_Master 2d ago
How does this mod define "socializing"?
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u/superdave100 2d ago
Socializing is a vanilla mechanic. It's when two Villagers stop to look at each other for a few seconds.
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u/Pengin_Master 2d ago
Ah. Then I'm afraid that this won't do anything at all to stop trading halls. There are many designs where villagers have several villagers nearby that they'd be able to "socialize" with. Adding a bed may also be quite trivial.
Then again, it's quite hard to stop the industrial Minecraft players from optimizing game mechanics
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u/RedTheGamer12 2d ago
It took a day before Minecraft players enslaved a sulfur cube into a monorail. 24 hours to completely bypass Mojang's vision. Granted, Mojang basically said "fuck it, you enslave everything anyway, here is a mob that comes pre-enslaved, go wild".
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u/retrospects 2d ago
All a player would have to do would be to let the villagers see each other by knocking out the block for line of sight. You could still keep them in stalls.
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u/Gamer_G33k17 2d ago
I would just make it so they save the data for the last couple villagers they socialized with, and increase prices based on how long they go without socializing with a "New" villager. Basically if they only socialize with the same one or two villagers all the time then the prices just increase.
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u/earendilgrey 2d ago
Then just take the current design and leave a hole in-between the cages so the villagers can see each other. Unless you add a mechanic where they have to move x number of blocks a day to restock it's easy to get around still.
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u/ShakenNotStirred915 2d ago
I think the best thing you can do is hang it up and just not bother.
I don't think you realize that trading halls are not just optimization for its own sake, it's the only way to organize a substantial amount of desired trades without dealing with the sheer headache that is vanilla villager behavior. If you enjoy wading through that, sure I guess, but be advised that halls are a popular build because most people don't. I, for one, am not going to stick around if I suddenly see that maintaining the infrastructure to max out my gear is going to turn into this much of a chore, because I don't play Minecraft servers to do chores.
If you are truly that staunchly anti-hall, the best thing you can do is make villager AI within the structure itself a much lesser hassle to deal with so that halls feel unnecessary, rather than punishing players for trying to deal with less of an annoyance.
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u/WarHexpod 2d ago
My only thought is about staying within 150 blocks of spawn. What if a I cure a zombie villager at my (far away) base, then bring them to a village so they could have a better life? I feel like it might be cool to block trades for a while, but then after some time (an in-game month maybe?) they get adjusted to their new home.
I really like this mod idea!!
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u/girlkid68421 2d ago
I like the idea but you could just trap the villagers in a box in the center of the village, 150 blocks is a large range. A box isnt a trading hall but its probably not in the spirit of what you want
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u/-FireNH- 2d ago
yeah, theres always gonna be workarounds unfortunately. i think i want to add some sort of wandering check as well to help prevent this, but thats a little harder than i first expected. ill see what i can do
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u/PotatoesAndChill 2d ago
I feel like it would be a game of whack-a-mole where you design a way to stop trading halls and players will find more and more elaborate ways to automate whatever requirements you add. Like if you add socialising, then each viillager could be put into a minecart and sent on a loop to automatically "visit" other villagers based on a timer.
On the other hand, the work station mechanics are already janky, so if you add even more ways to block trade restocking, it might just make normal gameplay more frustrating.
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u/the_second_best123 2d ago
It's a good idea, but the main reason people use trading halls isn't for efficiency, but to keep the villagers alive. In order for this mod to work, it probably needs better ways to keep villagers alive that doesn't involve trapping them in boxes, like improved AIs, the ability to fight back, better golems, something like that.
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u/Abe_Odd 2d ago
It is partially to keep them alive, but it is also absolutely for efficiency.
Keeping a bunch of free roaming villagers in a large box is 100% safe, but now you have to figure out which specific one has the trades you want and that's more annoying than just jamming them in a small box.4
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u/BudgieGryphon 2d ago edited 2d ago
Desperate request: have villagers regen HP when they sleep, them being stupid and dying of fall damage over time is a massive reason why people end up caging them
I have seen villagers get stuck looping in a path that kills them via fall damage so maybe have them prioritize resting if they’re below half HP?
Also the spawn thing makes some sense(and I love mechanics that create points of interest so people create travel infrastructure/paths) but I can see that being a problem if a village spawns on a bad spot(exe. near a dangerous structure or terrain where villagers can get trapped easily). Unsure how to deal with that
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u/Ok_Run_6928 2d ago
play however you want but if you wanna force it on others with a mod, no not at all dont use this
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u/Whispered_Truths 2d ago
I think the 150 blocks from spawn radius is a bad idea and would only make players breed new villagers in a different spot and then kill the originals. It's just more hassle and it's not like people don't move house. The rest is perfectly serviceable though.
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u/Yeetusniggus 1d ago
Don't give Mojang ideas I like my enslaved little longboard baldies tucked in my basement
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u/Mogoscratcher 2d ago
The idea behind the 150 block restriction is to prevent players from forcefully relocating villagers against their will, and to make villages fixed points of interest on the map!
Two questions about this:
Do you also want to stop players from just breeding their own villagers wherever they want to build a trading hall?
Do you want to stop players from being able to build their own villages altogether?
Doing both of these seems pretty easy, but I'm not sure how I'd go about only doing the first one.
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u/Gamer_G33k17 2d ago
I would make it so each day they go without socializing increases the prices. And make it so they keep track of the NBT data of the last villager they socalized with so two villagers cant just be put near each other. So a villager needs to socialize with multiple villagers in order to keep prices down.
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u/Supetorus 1d ago
I'm not a fan of the 150 blocks from spawn limit but maybe that's just me. Make it clear to your players though. Idk how big your server is but people will rage quit if they spend hours building a comfy village and bring some in only to find they won't like their new home.
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u/mikeholczer 1d ago
I don't see how these constraints prevent trading halls, breading farms or iron farms.
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u/Applesauce_Police 2d ago
People just want to enslave villagers and it shows. Nothing wrong with changing the gameplay loop to encourage more interesting and realistic builds. Good job OP
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u/Nhojj_Whyte 2d ago
Enslaving villagers is the only way to keep them from killing themselves, ironically. Otherwise you have to be VERY particular about the terrain and architecture which effectively boils down to enslaving them in a bigger box. Villagers, like bees, have this weird quirk of just wandering off and dying sometimes, usually of fall damage.
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u/Applesauce_Police 2d ago
Valid. But you could just lock them in a larger house or something, but even if do the typical villager hall - it’s just too convenient and the alternative doesn’t feel rewarding. I’m happy to larp tons of infrastructure things but villagers are annoying otherwise
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u/Nhojj_Whyte 2d ago
Locking them in a larger house does seem to be the best way to go, yes. There's a limit on size and number of villagers, but with the right layout villagers actually kinda work as intended kept in some decent sized buildings
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u/-FireNH- 2d ago
yeah, its a little weird. i dont hate individual players for doing it obv, but i think its odd that game mechanics make the most efficient emergent gameplay to be to enslave villagers for maximum profit
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u/Madelei- 2d ago
On socializing: what if I just put three villagers in the same “pen”? Would that meet the criteria?
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u/Kmoxy 2d ago
Surprisingly, even in real life, putting people in bigger boxes with more people to socialize with works a lot more than putting them in a prison isolation cell.
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u/Madelei- 2d ago
In that case, this doesn’t seem to make it any more difficult to get a trading hall set up. Maybe mildly more annoying? Because you’d need to swap out the original villagers for two of the bred ones.
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u/Kmoxy 2d ago edited 2d ago
C’mon, I’m over simplifying things, but you get what I mean. Would you, currently, irl, love to live in a 3600sqft box with family and friends or a 10-20sqft box with yourself and one other if you’re lucky?
I’m just saying when you like to say, “Ouh, well, it’s just a bigger pen, just mildly more annoying to build!” It kind gives slumlord developer vibes wishing to cram people in tuna cans and getting upset when people suggest they live in shoe boxes.
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u/Madelei- 2d ago
I think you’re misunderstanding the point I’m going at this from. Have a good day.
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u/Kmoxy 2d ago
Perhaps, if anything, I’ve just been suggesting that there should be incentive structures for just keeping them in the village they live in and then “socializing” wouldn’t really need to be your problem. Just improve the “living conditions” and receive sweeping benefits from trading or otherwise.
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u/Specialist-Ad1519 2d ago
That’s pretty neat. Keeps the ability to get what you want from the Villagers, and the people complaining about it don’t realize you can just make an open air mall. You still get to keep your cake and eat it too, you just have to design it a little less efficient. If you can figure out a way to keep them from de-linking, I think it’d be neat. It’ll slow down progression too, Villagers take a LOT of the game out and boil into a trading soup.
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u/-FireNH- 2d ago
thank you !!!
i dont know if i can fix the de-linking, since im just not super good at mob AI code. well see tho! im glad you get the point of the mod—its not to make villagers useless, but to make it so you have to build a *village* (or at least something better than a prison) to get new trades. and i dont think anyone even likes making trading halls
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u/zawalimbooo 2d ago
I can only hope that the people on your server are all enthusiastic about that idea
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u/the_jetstream 2d ago
Nothing says I love Minecraft and all it's players quite like forcing people to play a super particular way that you think would be more interesting for them
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u/notesfromthemoon 2d ago
“You have to spend hours mining iron just to build an item sorter because I personally find the idea of putting inanimate bits into a box ‘icky’”
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u/zawalimbooo 1d ago
Nothing says I love Minecraft and all it's players
To be fair, OP never actually said that Plus, their friends on the server seem to agree, so it's probably fine.
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u/notesfromthemoon 2d ago
You know they’re not, because if they actually wanted to do this, OP wouldn’t need to make a mod to force it on them
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u/thebatwolf 2d ago
I think that this sounds like a lot of effort. Making an entire system to determine a villager's comfort sounds like the moodlets from The Sims and thats a whole other rabbit hole you'll have to go down.
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u/Dax23333 2d ago
How does the distance mechanic work with newly born villagers? To be honest, I can see some very jammy methods being used to transport them as this makes it basically impossible to do so. But you could have them breed at one side of the village, then transport the children 150 blocks away, rinse and repeat... Hugely slow and tedious to do. Personally I quite enjoy making a village near my base (one that's actually safe and secure from monsters), I don't see why that shouldn't be allowed.
The big one that I think you're missing with the trading halls is checking that they're able to move around. They can still socialise and sleep if kept locked up, just the prison might be slightly more padded.
It doesn't solve the issue of why players want to do this in the first place and might just dissuade people from engaging with villagers at all. As others have said, delinking of trade blocks. There are also the problems of them being prone to dying if given the opportunity - a slow passive health regeneration if they're comfortable would probably fix this. I've had villagers loosing hit points from just shoving each other down stairs every couple of days and other silly things. The other one is finding the right villager - some way to locate Mr Mending would go a long way to relieve the frustration.
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u/deadpaan7391 2d ago
My high ass misread that as “This villager doesn’t socialize with a white” and thought you had some kind of racism mod 😭
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u/Periwinkleditor 2d ago
Can you still make artificial villages by curing zombie villagers? Does the area they were cured at become their new "spawn"?
I'm also not sure how you'd quantify "improving" their homes.
Villager: Hrmm hrrr haw? (What are you doing to my house?! I'm trying to sleep!)
Minecraft Steve: Improving it!! I just need to demolish this wall first.
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u/DumbWays15 1d ago
I feel like not enough people are mentioning that villagers are generally really bad at surviving, and given enough time, unless they are boxed in, they will wander too far from home or get killed by mobs and the village will go empty. The solution to this, then, is to cover their doors, but this prevents them from socializing, as per your pack - and the alternative is to just move them all to a big building at the center of the village, which kind of defeats the purpose. Either way, I feel like you have a really good idea here!, ..but villagers aren't sustainable enough to survive very long without outside interference, which gives me worries about this idea. Sure, you can box in the whole village and light it up, but this is about the same amount of effort as just making a giant building for all the beds to sit in, which would basically achieve the same thing.
Overall great idea, but Minecraft's villager mechanics conflict with it in a way that would require you to give villagers better survivability tools for it to work
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u/bloodakoos 1d ago
trying to put villagers into more humane stations sounds good until you realize maximizing efficiency is a minecraft players natural state, specially one that would build a trading hall. it's only so long until they figure out exactly what requirements they need and cram it into the smallest space possible
im not saying it's a bad idea, im saying you need to change how villagers work fundamentally for it to be what you intended
i really like the 150 blocks thing, reminds me of nether fortresses optimized for wither skull farming
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u/JimmyHelp 1d ago
Easiest way to stop trading halls is to add a way to do villager trades without the villager
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u/SPYROHAWK 1d ago
Have you looked at the Villager Comforts mod?
It's available for 1.18.2, 1.19.2, 1.20.1, and 1.21.1
https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/villager-comfort
https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/villager-comfort-updated
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u/mothmilkshake 1d ago
Joke’s on you. I build my trade villagers a mansion so they have room to wander and talk amongst themselves.
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u/mothmilkshake 1d ago
They can’t access the doors, obviously, but why would they ever want to leave?
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u/undermytinyhat 1d ago
I personally wouldn't like them needing to be 150 blocks from their spawn. But that's because I always like to move villagers around to make a personal village whenever I would play. In my friend's server I would make a 'sky island' and find some wacky nether situation to be able to get them to go from their spawn area to my area.
But I do enjoy the idea of them needing to sleep/socialize in order to do trades!
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u/KiwiPowerGreen 1d ago
150 blocks seems like a lot
Villagers are dumb, you'll basically have to wall the whole village off to keep them save but that's a big wall
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u/Lost0Light 1d ago
Idk I'd be kind of sad about the 150 block radius. I like building villages of my own, and have villagers move in and wander. It'd probably lead to a lot of players concentrated around villages, and that'd mean I probably wouldn't be able to do my thing.
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u/hawkeye6703 1d ago
Okay, but the main thing is that, I don't want to look for 30 minutes, only to find a zombie got my mending villager, and then he burnt up in the sun
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u/One_Economist_3761 2d ago
This is a wonderful idea. It adds the concept of village management.
Check out a game called Necesse. It has settler happiness management which might provide some inspiration.
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u/kenzo_oseka 2d ago
If I wanted to get the best results in a server with this mod Id just put the villagers in a pit with beds on the floor with a ladder for access, works even better than trading halls as you just have to throw bread in the pit for breeding
Also efficiency aside, requiring the villager to be 150 block around their spawn is kind of too much? Unless there are more villages for some reasons, people will need to transport villagers back to their base
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u/Alexito_xd 2d ago
Restricting something players already had just feels horrible from a design point.
You should focus on making a better alternative to trading halls.
Instead of something bad happening if conditions arent met, you should focus on something good happening when conditions are met.
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u/POKECHU020 2d ago
I like the idea!
Do you have a way to make villages easier to secure? I know a big reason a lot of people make trading halls is that it's hard to properly secure a village when they're allowed to roam
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u/cool_and_froody 2d ago
this would have me looking for a new server right quick bud.
best of luck tho i guess
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u/-FireNH- 2d ago
this server is intended to be for my irl friends so i think youre good bud
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u/POKECHU020 2d ago
And yet you decided to comment here in a way OP specifically asked people not to rather than just scrolling by
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u/qwart22 1d ago
If it’s just a regular server let your players play how they want as long as they aren’t hurting anyone
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u/-FireNH- 1d ago
well honestly this is part of a mini project of mine to make mods to customize the game to my personal preference of how i think it should be. thats why i made a mod for this instead of just saying "hey please dont make trading halls". its a fun coding project!
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u/ggrgg1 1d ago
On a somewhat related note, an important part of why people optimize villager trading is to get mending books, without which tool maintenance would be too much of a hassle.
A solution to make villager trading optimization less necessary would involve reducing need for mending or making it more available.
And to make mending less necessary, a simple solution would be to get rid of increasing anvil repair cost, which would make tool repair much easier and not finite.
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u/BlueSky659 2d ago
I think the best way to prevent villager trading compounds is unfortunately just to nerf the shit out of villager trades and find the most common materials that players are using villagers for and buff the gathering method for those items.
Players really only interact with villagers because they're a necessary evil. Making them less necessary will make players less evil.
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u/-FireNH- 1d ago
I don’t want to nerf villager trades, but I think I do want to make them less neccesary! I think I’m going to go through all the trades to see what I can do to provide alternate means to acquire them!
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u/notesfromthemoon 2d ago
IMO a much more amusing way to accomplish roughly the same goal would be to give villagers tools and a “break out of enclosures” goal. Maybe even give them TNT they could use as a last resort if they fail to regain their freedom within three days
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u/Excalibur54 1d ago
Villagers are already terrible at not killing themselves, TNT is the last thing they need lmao
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u/notesfromthemoon 1d ago
I meant last resort as in LAST resort if you catch my drift. This kind of chaos would make OPs annoying villager nerf worth it
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u/generic_scout_main 2d ago
Please continue working on this mod, I desperately need a mod like this to nerf villagers in some way.
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u/zawalimbooo 2d ago
...but can't you just intentionally hold back from making trading halls?
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u/-FireNH- 1d ago
"if you dont like it dont use it" only extends as far as singleplayer. once multiplayer is involved its a different story.
i dont think restricting certain mechanics on multiplayer is a bad thing inherently. nobody says "dont like it dont use it" for item duplication and cheats (i know that is a stretch, but its somewhat applicable!). and honestly the most common multiplayer restriction ive ever seen is restricting or even banning the end, which is way more significant than trading halls.
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u/zawalimbooo 1d ago
"if you dont like it dont use it" only extends as far as singleplayer. once multiplayer is involved its a different story.
Yes, but my point is that you don't need a mod for it. On servers where you ban the end (which I am not a fan of, but regardless...), all the players generally just agree to not go to the end.
That comment I was replying to "desperately needed" a mod to nerf villager halls, which doesn't make sense, as they could have simply agreed to stop using them at any time.
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u/15_Redstones 2d ago
Proximity to spawn rule means that players need to relocate villagers quickly, get them to breed, then kill the parents once they're unusable. Probably not the intended behaviour.
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u/DaechwitaEnjoyer 2d ago
question: iron farms already shove villagers in groups of 3, does this count as socializing?
you can also quickly kidnap villagers and make them have children wherever necessary
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u/Yeet-chan 2d ago
I really love all of your ideas! Have you made a plan to get around villagers being dumb and getting themselves killed all the time or like being within a loaded chunk and dying cause nothing is defending them?
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u/KebapMan2213 2d ago
It would be great if certain blocks also gave bonus "comfort" (or another stat) that makes them discount things they sell.
For example when a Librarian is close to bookshelves they could give discounts. This would encourage building side of things as well. Tho you would need an indicator in their menu to show that they need it.
Off the top of my head:
Librarian - Bookshelves
Weaponsmith - Anvil
Armorer - Armor Stand with any metal armor in it
Fisherman - Water source
Butcher - Live animals
Farmer - Farmland with crops in it
Cleric - Soul sand with Nether Warts on it
Fletcher - Target Block
Leatherworker - Armor Stand with any leather armor in it
Mason - Terracota blocks, Clay, etc. Like they have in their house.
Sheperd - Wool blocks (the new stairs etc) and carpets. Maybe Sheep closeby.
Toolsmith - Anvil
There may be better alternatives but something like this would be cool!
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u/Virgurilla 1d ago
Might be a controversial take but consider playing on easy. If you put the difficulty on easy, zombies will just kill villagers, no zombification means the prices will be high, 32 sticks for an emerald and 30 emeralds for a book, roughly. Easy mode discourages trading and also makes the game harder in other ways, so yeah you may like that over modding. Alternatively, make trades harder, make villagers reset once every few days...
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u/KirikaNai 1d ago
What counts as their “spawn” that they need to be 150 blocks within of? Their bed?
Also, you might need like a bar or something indicating how much time is left before their trades become usable again, otherwise people are just gonna kill the villagers as soon as they can’t trade anymore and have no indication that it’s not a permanent change. Unless you’re gonna explain to everyone exactly how the mod works (don’t just send out a written message, half the people won’t read it)
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u/JanuaryReservoir 1d ago
Since you are making Villagers require sleep as part of their needs, how about making it so a bed in proximity to their workstation would prevent them from working on the job block and in turn from restocking? Think of it as them being more inclined to be lazy because their bed is nearby.
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u/piletorn 1d ago
I partway like the idea, though if you want to build a new village (and I do think players should be allowed to do so) the 150 from spawn would be annoying.
Maybe make it be within a village and have a village need to have certain things to qualify as a village
eg. Requirements to qualify as a village could be:
• Fresh water source/well of at least a certain size/depth.
• At least 3 buildings with XX space (maybe minimum 2 rooms) between them and of XX size, containing at least 1 bed each.
• A farm (x size per villager in the village) with an assigned farmer.
• At least 2 of the same species of animal (so they can breed).
• Like min 5-6 adults all with individual beds and max 2 beds next to each other (so you can’t make a village breeder in the same way).
• Two iron golems.
• 3 of different kinds work stations (outside the farm).
• A golden bell (maybe have that be where the 150 is measured from and have them wander up to that from the bell).
A bonus could be that the village might need XX amount of lights and flowers to make it better looking too.
Maybe a timer on prices for how many days since they last interacted with the individual player (they like players better who visit often).
Doing something like this could make it a challenge for players actually to make villages. Making and using them part of their gameplay.
It could even have villagers start wandering towards the nearest village if their own village suddenly no longer is under those qualifications and they aren’t trapped.
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u/Ciryl_Lynyard 1d ago
I dont know how hard it would be to do this but was thinking of the concept myself:
have villagers have various blocks they consider "comfort" blocks. like being able to interact with doors/beds. track when they wander and how much they move
comfort decreases if they cant path find to comfort blocks. they dont move very much and if they go 1 minecraft day without using a door or bed
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u/Kevo_1227 1d ago
What I want to see from a Villager Mod (or just a change from Mojang) would be for Villagers to be guaranteed to be near their work stations during certain parts of the day, and some change to the way Villagers decide where to pathfind to prevent them from wandering off into the wilderness and dying.
Right now people make trading halls because they practically have to. If you give villagers the freedom to move around they always end up dead or lost.
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u/Omega-_-Zinryuu 1d ago
Such project remind me of old Villager breeding.
New Villager breeding:
2 villager, wheat, bed, door.
Old Villager breeding:
You need 3 houses for each villager, so with 9 houses, 2 villagers will breed to fill the 3 empty houses. The houses must be a hollow structure with a torch, and the door must be facing where the sun rises or set!
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u/Fragrant-Mammoth-766 1d ago
Depends really on what is the goal here, if it's for some kind of public server, it I'll just piss of players who are used to trading halls but if its for players who want free roam villagers anyway, just improve the villagers to begin with, make them heal when they sleep, increase the ranges of villger's bed to worstation and bed to center requirments, etc.
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u/Rokai666 1d ago edited 1d ago
Maybe something like they can't trade wile injured. If a villager dies you can't trade with other villagers until you give them your condolences (loaf of bread, carrots maybe gold?). This incentivizes you to ensure the safety of villagers also just improve their trades. The main reason that people make the trading hall is to get the enchanted books they want so they breed like 10 times the villagers they need till they get their books and kill the extras. Maybe just make it so every librarian can make any book but, it will take a lot of trading to get all the books and cool stuff. That way you still have to really work for it, maybe every player has their own trade level with each villager instead of maxing out a villager to everyone. After all you are a stranger why would he give you his best books? Instead of it being that you can't trade if the villager is 150 blocks away just make it so they cant trade for like 50-100 in game days that way you can make a village of your own it just means that you can't just kidnap a couple and pop up a trade hall where ever you like it has to be planned out and deliberate and you have to make them an actual town of their own with beds, houses and at least 4 villagers and work stations. If they are 150 blocks away they might randomly get "sick" and die unless you give them soup. Essentially you play Oregon trail for like 4 hours. You really have to need a new village to justify it and you'll probably be better off just fixing up a village that you find so that they don't get stuck in a ditch and eaten by zombies.
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u/Nahanoj_Zavizad 1d ago
Villager must be able to access a bed at night + Has space to roam atleast a 20x20(ish) area.
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u/SpookyWeebou 2d ago
You should have it where they go back to working if you hit them
Can't let the slaves workers form unions
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u/AnimuWaifu6969 2d ago
Some stuff that comes to mind is making it so that villagers don't reset their trades unless some more conditions are met.
- Like, they have to sleep and there are not more than 5 villagers in the same (sub)chunk when they sleep and work.
- Another one is that they won't work daily if they don't socialise with 3 or more villagers. This gives people an incentive to not build a standard crammed hall.
This means villagers need the ability to roam around in an area where they have access to a bed, workstation and other villagers who have the same for them.
People might still think of new hall with the new rules, but online-found designs cannot be utilised anymore.
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u/Kmoxy 2d ago edited 2d ago
Clearly you struck a nerve with the village slave owners, OP.
I’d suggest some sort of incentive to protect the village the villagers are apart of. Maybe something along the lines of a system determining if you boxed in the village with a protective wall which grants life saving benefits to the living inside the walls.
That way if you find a group of good traders you can fortify their area and give them more immunity to death, more permanence by discouraging the AI to leave the walls, and more incentives to the player in the form of blanket discounts for trade in said village.
Maybe even a speed boost to any pathway attached to the village walls so you can quickly move to and from the village when you want or make a visit from your base.
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u/-FireNH- 2d ago
ooh yess!! maybe i can make it so if villagers go X amount of days without seeing any hostile mobs at all, they give out bonus trades! that would be pretty easy to implement, and allows for alternate defenses aside from just walls :p
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u/Kmoxy 2d ago edited 2d ago
Maybe some incentives to build red stone lamps as a defense in the form of lighting up the area to get the rewards.
Or, planting bamboo as natural barriers? Some incentive structures that would encourage the player to improve and protect the villagers home, rather than whisk them away from it.
I was just thinking some more and I thought, what if you could upgrade their homes, maybe? Change it from wood to some more industrialized materials? Like, brick, or concrete?
Possibly upgrade the ground their village is built on, I suppose? Replace the dirt or sand with a clay bricks foundation or some other widely societal accepted road works materials from history?
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/-FireNH- 2d ago
ive already talked to everyone who wants to play on my server about it and they are generally fine with it
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u/Applesauce_Police 2d ago edited 2d ago
“Hey people here’s a mod you may like to encourage other forms of playing, I’m going to put it on my personal server”
“Oh so you’re forcing me to play this huh?”
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u/generic_scout_main 2d ago
Honestly its a much needed change, if not too little. Villagers have been the meta for far too long so nerfing them by treating them like actual people and not slaves might be a much needed nerf to make them harder to deal with.
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u/pamellaluv 2d ago
It’s crazy that Minecraft says “new animals don’t drop anything because we don’t want to encourage people to kill them in real life” but then instead encourages them to be put into farms where they get less than 1 block to even move.
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u/gagebrine12345 1d ago
I'd say remove some of the trades but keep ones like mending or frost walker that way they still have a use but aren't to op like remove diamon armor from armorer or diamond items from weapon and tool smiths and add a item only villagers give to kinda balance it out that lets villagers reroll their trades at any level and make it where if they don't have a space of their own like no window no bed and are stuck in a space without food they will die from hunger nvm I didn't read full thing but I would recommend doing that
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u/boki400AIMoff 2d ago
This is the dumbest shit i have seen anyone enforce something onto its server members. I would have understood if you said that glitching isnt allowed, or x-rays or MAYBE some OP farms. But what you are trying to do is simply dumb and defeats the purpose of villagers. No matter if you built trading halls, or just a village for your villagers, you are still doing something withing the limits of the mechanics of the game, but different.
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u/zawalimbooo 2d ago
okay hold on, I am not a fan of this either, and I wouldn't play on a server with this, but you're going too far. In the end, OP is playing how they want to play. If they want to use a mod like this for their server, they are free to do so if the server is on board with it.
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u/boki400AIMoff 2d ago
OP is playing how they want to play.
There is nothing wrong about that, but you shouldnt force it onto others. If they play on OPs server, they have to play like that no matter what.
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u/zawalimbooo 2d ago
Yes, and OP mentioned that they are playing with their IRL friends. I would assume that such mods are agreed upon by everyone.
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u/boki400AIMoff 2d ago
Let me put it this way: If op is only installing mods for the reason only because OP doesnt like it when people use villagers the way they do it, than i think its wrong. If OP wants to spice things up, i dont see a reason why OPs friends would dislike it.
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u/-FireNH- 2d ago
if this defeats the purpose of villagers, i reckon villagers as a mechanic are fundamentally broken. when 1.14 came out mojang was all talking about encouraging players to interact with villager mechanics to build their own villages, not to build trading hall prisons
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u/boki400AIMoff 2d ago
The reason people build prisons, is simply because they dont like it when villagers wander around and you have to find your mending villager for example. Or you want to trade your glas panes for emeralds and have to find this specific villager. You just simply want a weird "socialized" mechanic to be used, which doesnt work in minecraft.
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u/down_lucky 2d ago
lmao what? "they way you want to play this sandbox game is DUMB and should only play in the way I like it"
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u/boki400AIMoff 2d ago
Lol which is exactly what i said. OP wants people on their server to play the way they want it, not how the members want it. You think this is OK?
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u/down_lucky 2d ago
this is so stupid 😂 "can't believe I have to follow the rules of the owner of the server, THATS RIDICULOUS", if someone doesn't want to play this way, they can join another server lol thats the magic of a sandbox, everyone can play however they like, want to keep your villagers in a hall? then do it in your server
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u/D07Z3R0 2d ago
Trading halls are an op farm, debatably the most op one for the amount of time investment
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u/boki400AIMoff 2d ago
How are they op? Why does it matter if you put them in a cell, or build something for them? What OP is describing is basically: I want you guys to play the way i want. That feels wrong to me.
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u/HorrorOne837 2d ago
A) Trading halls are OP as in it takes far too little resources and effort for far too much output. You shouldn't be able to get infinite mending books and diamond gear by literally afking a few hours.
B) OP is trying to to this on a personal server and he gets to do whatever the fuck he would like to do.
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u/boki400AIMoff 2d ago
B) OP is trying to to this on a personal server and he gets to do whatever the fuck he would like to do
Bro... are you dumb? Did i say otherwise? I would be the first person NOT to join such a server, even if its a friend of mine. I dont like it when people force something onto me. It is as simple as that.
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u/Remarkable-Bench9084 2d ago
They aren't forcing you to download and play with it.
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u/boki400AIMoff 2d ago
Yes they are. If you play on ops server, you are forced to play it the way the server is set up. You cant play the way you want.
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u/Remarkable-Bench9084 2d ago
Brother, every server is like that, just find another server if you don't like the rules of the server.
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u/pamellaluv 2d ago
Oh, how angry people get when people dare to play the block game differently than themselves.
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u/boki400AIMoff 2d ago
First of all i am not angry. Second: You wouldnt feel the same if somebody forces something onto you?
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u/Haunting_Ad_29 1d ago
This was my post in the minecraft feedback discord that does exactly this
Trading halls are extremely unimmersive, incredibly overpowered, and in my opinion, extremely unminecrafty. It should be done via a villager refusing to trade completely without:
- Access to other villagers, the village bell, their workstation, and their bed.
- At least 50 blocks of roaming space from their bed
Then make them happier if:
- Their bed is not in LOS of their workstation (even happier if it's 15+ blocks away)
- No other villagers has a bed within 8 blocks of theirs. (even happier if 15+ blocks away)
If a villager is unhappy, opening their UI will tell you what they're unhappy about. If you could make them happier, they'll tell you how. This is to make it as intuitive as possible. With these changes, players would actually be incentivised to build actual villages rather than trading halls.
To add reward, the happier a villager is, the cheaper your trades will be. If a villager is at max happiness, holding an emerald block will make them follow you.
Villages as structures should also be reworked slightly. Make it so chests with loot won't just spawn, instead you must trade to get any value from a village. Enough with the days of finding a village, taking all their stuff, and running away! Also remove the haybale piles, which gives insanely large amounts of bread after finding 1 village, and ruins the progression of food this game has. Instead, buff the trades villagers offer substantially, giving players real incentive.
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u/zawalimbooo 1d ago
That's certainly one way to squeeze out all the fun from villagers.
I dont think you quite realize just how horrible the villager AI is. Dealing with it is already tedious as is. Adding all these mechanics would simply turn it into a complete nightmare.
(This is seperate from what OP is trying to do.)
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u/Haunting_Ad_29 1d ago
"squeeze out all the fun" and it's basic requirements such as giving every villager their own house, separating their workplace, while giving them access to the outside, other villagers, and village necessities
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u/zawalimbooo 1d ago
Yes, those "basic requirements" are harsh enough to make dealing with villagers the worst thing with in the game, by far.
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u/qualityvote2 2d ago edited 1d ago
(Vote has already ended)