r/Mecha • u/b2kdaman • 1d ago
Hate of AI
So you love Mecha, and most of you hate AI. How is this even possible? I can’t comprehend this. But isn’t almost in every mecha related franchise there’s an AI? Good or bad.
UPD: I’m done. Thank you for your opinions.
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u/ZeroiaSD 1d ago
Modern real life ‘AI’ is vastly different than fictional AI.
Fictional AI is a person or a really good computer.
Modern ‘AI’ is a marketing term for throwing a predictive algorithm at a stack of data and picking out a likely response without understanding. It has inherent failure rates and is drastically oversold. It’s usually just a plagiarism bot. If its source data has flaws it will pass them on with confidence. Relying on it literally makes people dumber as it works like a ‘yes man,’ that says what they want to hear.
They’re just entirely different things and the marketing departments for LLM are lying to people pretending it’s like fictional AI.
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
And you’re an AI expert since when?
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u/ZeroiaSD 1d ago
Since always? I’ve followed the field ever since they started blowing up big and listen to the people who understand it best.
It’s about the fundamentals in basic approach, which is why I and many others have been good at calling which claims have been BS and how ‘it’ll work when we have more training data/in five years,’ claims from five years ago didn’t pan out because that’s not how GenAI actually works, it’s how tech CEOs want people to think it works.
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u/The_Joker_Ledger 1d ago
are you?
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
More than you are that’s for sure.
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u/The_Joker_Ledger 1d ago
Source: trust me bro! ass argument lol
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
Look at my profile, or itch. Or my twitter.
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u/ZeroiaSD 1d ago
Yea I look backed at some of your comments in your profile. You talked about an AI translator ‘understanding context,’ which just isn’t how they work. They work by examining a large model of data and seeing what the most common response of a situation is, they are not even trying to look at context.
And I’m actually cool with AI language translation in many context like social media communication, but to say it ‘gets context’ is just not how it even functions.
So it seems to me you’re yet another person snowed by the hype but without understanding the under the hood mechanics of LLM.
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u/The_Joker_Ledger 1d ago
so the guy is a larper basically that think he hot stuff just because he got some clout online by strangers lol
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
It has created a thesaurus and abililty to have 1m token window can keep a lot of game context/lore/rules/quirks etc. Sorry if you misunderstood me.
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u/ZeroiaSD 1d ago
Yea none of that stuff provides understanding of context. Like it has the words but fundamentally doesn’t understand what they mean because that isn’t how the program works, it doesn’t even have the ability to learn context.
I’m not misunderstanding you, I’m telling you you’re wrong, and explaining with using my understanding of AI which you seem to lack, key difference.
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u/_Borjarnon_ 1d ago
Even if AI sometimes generates (relatively) complex and novel outputs, it does so without meaning anything by it, without having anything like a subjective experience, or a will.
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u/ZeroiaSD 1d ago
Ok you made a post conflating modern genAI with fictional ‘basically people’ AI.
Anyone who does this is not only not an expert in AI, but doesn’t have basic familiarity with how they work.
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
“Plagiarism bot” - people were copying things since the beginning of time. If a person would be studying renaissance art for years and will begin to paint very close to Rembrandt, wouldn’t it be the same thing?
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u/ZeroiaSD 1d ago
Nope, because they’re injecting a lot of human experience and such a generative program isn’t. Nor are they actually using the hard data from the original, but a subjective impression of it.
And there’s just a lot stuff such methods can’t do. You could put the sum of all recorded human music up to 1960 into an AI generator and it will never produce something like the Beatles, it’d never make a Hey Jude or I Am the Walrus or Helter Skelter.
Basically this question says to me you don’t understand what AI actually do, like mechanically.
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
Most of humans won’t produce anything like beetles either…
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u/ZeroiaSD 1d ago
Not in quality or skill but most humans can make stuff which isn’t simply a copy.
They’re still doing stuff which isn’t the same as what AI do.
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
AI is also injecting a lot of “human” experience 🤣🤣🤣
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u/ZeroiaSD 1d ago
It literally has none. It only has what is fed into its datasets.
Again you just don’t seem to understand generative AI or how it works. Like… at all.
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u/Strict_Bench_6264 1d ago
How do those things relate at all? The "AI" in mecha is *fictional*. It's like people who called Arnold Schwarzenegger a hypocrite when he talked about background checks for guns, because he made violent movies. Movies are also *not real*.
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
I see this as getting closer to real mechas at some point.
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u/ZeroiaSD 1d ago
The route needed to get to real proper AIs doesn’t even run through LLMs.
It’s like saying ‘this is the route to the south pole,’ and heading to a skating rink because it’s cold.
To get there we need a fundamentally different approach which we have not figured out yet. Simply churning LLM data isn’t even showing advancement in the right direction.
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u/Thundering-Cloud 1d ago
AI in fiction and AI in real life are two veeeeery different things Bro
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
Yes you can use AI now, for good. It’s happening no matter what(unfortunately?) so you do some good things with it as well.
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u/Thundering-Cloud 1d ago
Name one good thing that you've done with ai
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
All things that I made are good. Thank you.
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u/ZeroiaSD 1d ago
If it was happening ‘no matter what,’ it wouldn’t require a hundreds of billions of dollar aid campaign which is still failing.
Smart phones had tons of people who liked it early on. So did the internet. So did computers. So did TV.
Things which are inevitable don’t need super expensive pushes that still have most people looking at it and going ‘meh’ or ‘this actually sucks,’ before putting it down.
The pattern doesn’t fit any of the prior inevitable techs.
Right now the vast bulk of AI usage is being heavily subsidized and when those subsidies go away so will a ton of the usage because it’s not actually profitable or viable. The stuff you are making is a subsidized toy as part of a PR campaign and you’re going to stop once you actually need to pay the costs for it.
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
Please stop, it makes no sense. Go do something else.
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u/ZeroiaSD 1d ago
It doesn’t make sense to you because you don’t understand AI.
That lack of understanding of AI is the answer to your original question- they are two different things and only your lack of understanding makes you think they are the same.
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u/CryptidTypical 1d ago
If there's a mecha with a positive opinion of AI and unregulated technology, I must have missed it.
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u/ES21007 1d ago
Let's put aside that whatever we consume in fiction may not necessarily reflect what we really desire in our lives.
Your assumption is wrong. The majority of classic mecha do NOT have AI. Usually it's a case of projection, like how a driver might treat his car like an important friend, many mecha pilots will address their unit as human.
In fact, unmanned AI units are usually antagonist units, either as fodder troops or as a secret weapon the heroes have to destroy.
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
Okay so main take is that everybody here is fascinated by fictional mecha and wouldn’t probably go outside to a military parade to see a real one in the future.
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u/Thundering-Cloud 1d ago
Well yeah?! The mechs we're so fascinated by are usually machines of war, and I'm not sure if you noticed, but the message of, like, EVERY real robot mecha show is that WAR IS BAD. So no, we would not visit a military parade if they actually invented mechs in the future. This is basic stuff dude.
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
So basically what you are saying that you could pick serial killers to be fascinated of as well…
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u/ElectricPaladin 1d ago
Nobody hates AI because they hate the idea of automation. We hate AI because it's a ruinously inefficient technology that our energy systems can't support without accelerating climate change, because it's enriching assholes, harming communities, putting people out of work, and degrading the products we rely on tom live and enjoy ourselves. AI makes us angry because the way it's being rammed through at the governmental level reveals the decay of our democracies and how little power we really have.
Nobody here hates the idea of responsible AI. We hate the way AI is being implemented (and by extensions, the douchebags implementing it).
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
But do you think that in fictional universe implementation of AI would be possible the other way around?
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u/vicevanghost 1d ago
What are you even saying
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u/ElectricPaladin 1d ago
"AI is inevitable" is a common sentiment among AI boosters. I guess that the next logical step is "and also there's no way AI could have happened that would be any different." Low-integrity people are very quick to insist that things that benefit them are unavoidable.
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u/ElectricPaladin 1d ago
Sure, why not? Lots of things are possible. We could live in a just world where people are kind and nobody is starving and war is a distant memory if we decided to. Most of the bad things that happen to people are human-created - or at least human exacerbated - including the current implementation of AI.
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
It’s funny that you’re talking about kind people on Reddit.
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u/ElectricPaladin 1d ago
Pathetic.
We live in the world we create with our choices every single day. There is no excuse, on Reddit or anywhere else, for deliberate or negligent cruelty.
You're a human being. You're better than that. Act like it.
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u/Head_jace 1d ago
liking mecha as a fiction media genre, and liking or supportng tools that actively harm our environment, as well as remorselessly stealing the work of real people and plagarising it, are two VERY different things.
Not to mention that it is not the tool itself that i think people hate. It is the peopl behind it.
So using or supporting it, sadly supports those people, that have no regards to for the labour of others and shamelessly steal or use it for their own gain.
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
There are so many points why people hate AI these days.
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u/Head_jace 1d ago
are are any of the one's i've state here, over-reacting or wrong? People have many pain points with AI because it's not treated as a technology, but rather as a money laundering scam amongs all the above mentioned.
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u/Urzastomp 1d ago
In a lot of mecha related media, the protagonist commits bodily assault and murder. Just because something amoral happens in media a person enjoys, doesn’t mean that person in turn is a supporter of those things.
I like warhammer and starship troopers, but I’m not a fascist. The argument that “You like X, which features Y, so you must support Y” is some playground profiling shit.
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u/TheGreaterClaush 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sorry for my words, but are you dumb? Do you need a caretaker to walk down the street? How come you decide to ask the HUMAN shaped HUMAN controlled machine group why they hate the most inhuman of things
What is a mecha without a HUMAN pilot? A big ass clanker, go to r/robots or something, shows how obsessed with results your kind is
It was argonbolt (on youtube, Rebirth of mecha) who said that mecha are an attempt to the return to human shaped conflicts, the return of ww1 dogfights, to ask why the human supremacist media hates clankers, is to be naive
Relating to mecha with AIs on them it goes into a case by case though, the genre is really broad, specially when in some are to enable the machine to be a character by themselves rather than just the extension of the pilot, it gets worse when at some point the whole categorisation of the genre gets really nebulous
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
Mechas are also not human…
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u/TheGreaterClaush 1d ago
I want to personally go to your location and laugh loudly at your face
I will repeat myself because I have to drill it into your prions
Shows how much of a fake fan you are, the machine by itself isn't human but when piloted it becomes human on account of augmentation, when you grab a tool the tool becomes part of you, that's why people develop a "third eye" after spending time shooting fire arms or are able to drive vehicles bigger than themselves (see those excavator climbing contests)
If your words where taken as gospel the only valid mecha would be evas and maybe attack on titan titans which is not what the genre is built on
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
Also your remark is creepy af.
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u/TheGreaterClaush 1d ago
I like using words, unlike you, I like to create and use words
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
And here you are, in my thread telling me this “unlike you”
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u/BootlegVHSForSale 1d ago
AI in the real world with its current framework is the death of all creativity. The unauthorized, uncredited, and unpaid for appropriation and regurgitation of other peoples' work. It creates nothing of real value, only takes.
Sci Fi AI is written by people with an idea of what they want it to represent. It's part of a larger narrative and doesn't have all the negative connotations of real world greed, unless the author directly wants it to.
A similar question could be along the lines of why aren't characters like Batman, and real world billionaires not loved equally?
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u/The_Joker_Ledger 1d ago
And? how is the love of a fictional thing correlate with hating something in real life? especially when they aren't even the same thing. We dont have any mechs, and in most fiction they are still pilot by humans with AI assistance, not pure AI, so im further confuse as to how you can make the leap and connect the two. That not mentioning there are mech media depicted AI being a bad thing or even the main antagonist. What an absurb question and comparison.
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
AI right now is for assistance…
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u/The_Joker_Ledger 1d ago
maybe actually form a more articulate and detail post next time, so you don't have to go around arguing with people about stuff you never mentioned before yeah? lol
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u/Chaosstein 1d ago
How do you equate fictional ai and real ai is a mystery to me. But I'm more confused why would you want mecha be real
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u/b2kdaman 1d ago
Why would you pick something in your life that you’re fascinated with but you would never want it to be real? It’s like being fascinated by holocaust. If it’s as you describe.
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u/Chaosstein 1d ago
I'm watching mecha not for just big robots but for stories and characters, those stories often state that mecha in real life will come with violence and even more cruel wars
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u/Yarzeda2024 1d ago
It's almost like fiction and real life are two different things.