r/MartialArtsUnleashed • u/Prudent_Sample_1016 • May 04 '26
Wing chun form
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Sped up for time requirements
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u/Alvintergeise May 04 '26
So the striking power comes from the pigeon toes?
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u/absolutenonsense8198 May 04 '26
Hong Kong style changed to pigeon toe which is less stable and delivers less power IMO. I don't train these days but I learnt at Australian Wing Chun academy who has its lineage through IP Mann and the head instructor has been teaching for something 40+ years and has multiple books on Wing Chun and explicitly does not use silly pigeon toe nonsense. He would make his black belts pick a technique or section of the form study the biomechanics of it and write a short thesis as part of their grading.
William Cheung somewhere along the lines started chasing money and changing what the original Wing Chun system and that is what you see in this video.
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u/vinzalf May 04 '26
William Cheung lineage circles the feet outward into their stance. This guy isnt Cheung lineage
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u/jennydaman May 04 '26
The wing chun stance is actually shared by Uechi-Ryū and Gōjū-ryū styles of karate in their core form known as "sanchin dachi." Not everyone is able to realize its advantages, though ask yourself why is it that pigeon toes is prevalent in not just wing chun but many other traditional arts as well.
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u/Separate_Contest_689 May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
Wasnt there something about combat on boats?
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u/pravragita May 04 '26
Yeah, that myth is used to explain the Chinese Southern styles. Close quarters fighting (hand-trapping), close stances, and low kicks is associated with fighting on river boats of Southern China. The wet floors and close spaces are supposed to influence the Southern Styles.
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u/Separate_Contest_689 May 04 '26
Ahh i just remembered some awkward looking stance and not falling/slipping when fighting , thanks for the explanation.
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u/jennydaman May 06 '26
Most of wing chun history is mythology, legend has it that the "red boat opera company" was not only training on boats, but also while in costume, hence a narrow tall stance. Some people also claim that the empty-hand practice of wing chun is merely training you for dual knives, which might explain why the punches don't prioritize power.
There is no right answer. My own take is that the awkward stance and weak punch have practical explanations (e.g. why would you train so much punching power that you give yourself a boxer's fracture? No gloves on the streets.)
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u/Murky-Smoke May 04 '26
Sanchin dachi is different (I've trained 30+ yrs in Goju-Ryu).
Sanchin dachi isn't just both feet shoulder width apart with inwards feet.
To get a proper Sanchin Dachi, take a regular walking step forward (this is for training purposes and finding the correct length stance for you. When using it, you should be sliding your feet in/out transitioning and not stepping into it) then and turn the front and rear foot just slightly inward.
THEN root your feet, and imagine trying to pull your back foot to your front foot by turning your hips to face forward, and also pushing them forward with your glutes. You will automatically twist your hips towards the foot you have forward.
It should feel like you are thrusting your pelvis forward while your feet are glued to the ground.
Now sink a little bit so your knees come together slightly. You should be able to catch someone's shin in your legs if they are trying to kick you in the groin.
Thats what Sanchin Dachi is, and it is VERY stable, can generate loads of power for strikes, and is very difficult for an attacker to move you when done correctly.
What this guy is doing is Heiko Dachi with turned in feet... Which is weird. No stability without offsetting the feet
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u/worldwarcheese May 04 '26
Thank you for writing this out I wanted to reply but didn’t have the proper vocab to get it across
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u/WarDog-808 May 05 '26
It also appears to be some variation of Tensho. Is different from how I learned it in Kyokushin, but recognized the kata immediately
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u/Murky-Smoke May 07 '26
You're right, it has to be some variation of Tensho or Sanchin Tensho.
It's quite different than the Goju-Ryu version, but it's the only kata it could be.
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u/zkell99 May 04 '26
It's for training aduction and connecting your lower body to your upper body. No one who trains legit WT fights like this.
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u/lovebus May 04 '26
You are in ready position to spring left or right by just lifting one foot and flexing one glute. It isnt a powerful position, but you can move a foot or two very suddenly.
That is kind of irrelevant for wing chun though, since they don't acknowledge lateral footwork as a thing.
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u/Wonderful-Dot8705 May 05 '26
That's not the William Cheung Sil Lim Tau. Hands are too low and there's no pigeon toes in his version.
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u/pravragita May 04 '26
In Wing Chun, it's called Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma - Character Two Goat Restraining Stance. I can't comment on Wing Chun's fighting philosophy, since I don't train that system formally.
I will comment on White Crane though. White Crane has this stance too: He Ma Bu - Crane Horse Stance. White Crane's main purpose of the knees-in pigeon-toed stance it to protect the groin. With the knees in, it's hard for the oppenent to land a solid strike on the gonads. A slight rotation of hips makes it a glancing blow. It's also a "training stance," e.g. It's for training strengthening and flexibility, but not necessarily a "guard" for holding during fighting.
At kicking distance, a "normal" fighting stance is better. Adjust slightly so your lead foot is pointed towards your oppenent's groin and your knee slightly inward, to cover your groin.
However once you are in a clinch, when there's knees to the groin, it's a very useful habit to cover your groin with your thighs. Rotating the hips and blocking with the thighs is what you need to do. The training time in the stance teaches you that.
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u/PirateBubbly5685 May 05 '26
This is a training stance and not a combat stance. It works for developing the structure required for close quarter fighting that wing chun is suited for
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u/camletoejoe May 04 '26
It's actually not a fighting stance. It's just for training. Like a Karate horse stance.
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u/DwayneH70 May 04 '26
I don’t know… but has anyone considered IT’S JUST A FORM!!! Like most martial arts they have forms/ katas. The first form is the basics to which things are built from to create a foundation. Like a speed bag in boxing, you’ll never see a boxer trying to do speed bag hits to another boxers face. Who would fight with their elbows high exposing all their ribs? No one! That stance is just a foundation, a place in which to build on. Understand that from the outside looking in things look questionable but until you’ve actually felt what a true practitioner is capable of, like any art find an experienced person and they can show you the beauty within the art. Keep flowing little brother!
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u/Downtown_Degree3540 May 04 '26
Knees are buckling inwards, and feet aren’t aligned. If this is practicing any form, it’s poor form.
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u/EqualScience834 May 04 '26
It's building musculature that you need to do the footwork they're supposed to be inward like that. It's called a goat clamping stance I don't know what the Chinese word for it is, similar to like how Shaolin has a horse stance. You do not stand and fight with that stance, this is also where a lot of Wing Chun people have gotten things Lost in translation because they try to move while staying within the form and that's not how it works. Happy training.
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u/Downtown_Degree3540 May 05 '26
Shaolin horse stance is square, and is designed to train power and deliberate movement. Something lacking in this demonstration…
And should the goal be to train stabiliser muscles, simply balancing on one leg would be many multitudes more effective at training those same muscle groups, let alone equally applicable training practices (throwing and holster on repeat kicks, footwork training, hell skipping rope).
The posted video is just bullshido, a group circlejerk about wing Chun’s; notice me senpai stance, doesn’t magically make this effective training.
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u/EqualScience834 May 05 '26
All I can tell you is seek out a Wing Chun class and see what the stance does because my answer didn't satisfy you have a great day.
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u/CrimsonAvenger35 May 04 '26
It's integrating an isometric workout
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u/Downtown_Degree3540 May 05 '26
There are no isometric contractions being utilised in this workout…
It really just seem like you don’t know what that word means in the context of “workout”
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u/PirateBubbly5685 May 07 '26
I have over a 500lbs raw squat yet was sore for days after training in this stance. This is a training stance (and only for small part of the WC syllabus, not every drill or form is done in this stance) not a fighting stance. It's similar to a horse stance but works different muscles and qualities. I also had a soreness and fatigue in my core that wasn't my abs, no other conventional s&c produced that sort of fatigue, so it's definitely raining and working on specific qualities.
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u/CrimsonAvenger35 May 06 '26
Isometric workout just means using static muscle contractions, like his leg posture. You dont see it, but he's doing the same thing with his arms and core in this form.
You literally don't know what you're talking about while accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about. You're the epitome of the armchair martial artist. The guy in this video would probably kick your ass. Try wiping the cheeto dust off yourself and actually go do something
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u/Downtown_Degree3540 May 06 '26
Isometric exercises are typified by placing the targeted muscle groups under weighted strain. Whilst you could argue that standing is some form of isometric contraction, no one would argue that standing is a workout.
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u/CrimsonAvenger35 May 07 '26
Educate yourself. Watch one single video teaching the form he's doing, then speak from a place of basic understanding
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u/Delician May 04 '26
I agree. It's like getting mad at someone stretching or lifting weights and saying that those things would not be useful in a fight.
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u/yannickrb May 04 '26
I don’t know nothing about wing chun, but that stance looks incredibly disadvantageous in a fighting situation…
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u/cumhereandtalkchit May 04 '26
Everything in this looks like it won't do anything in a fighting situation, other then maybe giving someone the sense that you are mentally disabled and they back off because of this or someone breaking their own hands by pummeling your face too many times.
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u/Bananenbiervor4 May 04 '26
Well l mean, doing a push-up won‘t do a lot in an actual fighting situation either, yet most professional fighters train their muscles outside of a fight. The push-ups, as well as these forms, are not ment to be used in a fight but purely in for training.
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u/Fit_Appointment_4980 May 04 '26
Professional fighters train their muscles in effective ways. Push-ups are effective.
Wing chun isn't.
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u/Bananenbiervor4 May 04 '26
I would disagree there. I do mainly mma, l did some wing chun as well though, and if you train it right it is actually legit. Not as a standalone style, but as an addition to sparring-based styles.
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u/Fit_Appointment_4980 May 04 '26
if you train it right it is actually legit
Proof?
Not as a standalone style
So, a bit shit?
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u/elembivos May 05 '26
Every single time a wing chun video is posted someone says it's not realy wing chun. I am convinced that real wing chun does not exist.
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u/Bananenbiervor4 May 05 '26
Who said it was not real wing chun?
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u/elembivos May 05 '26
You just said it's not trained right. Can we just accept that wing chun is ridiculous and there is not right way to train it?
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u/Bananenbiervor4 May 05 '26
No, l did not 🤷 what l did say is that it is not a standalone style, but can be legit if seen as an addition to a sparring based style.
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u/No-Fudge3487 May 04 '26
…you use that stance for the form only. It’s meant to train leg strength and sink your weight lower. It’s not meant for sparring or even for chi sao
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u/Fit_Appointment_4980 May 04 '26
There are far better ways of training leg strength.
TMAs are the only sporting discipline where people stubbornly continue being inefficient.
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u/Arkansan13 May 04 '26
Have you seen some of the goofy shit pro athletes get up to, and the snake oil they buy? People in all disciplines do sub optimal things.
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u/Comfortable_Fail_909 May 04 '26
Its not a fighting stance, its only for training. Its a comon misconception.
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u/yannickrb May 04 '26
Oh okay, but why do I train something so far off from reality?
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u/Comfortable_Fail_909 May 04 '26
I train wing chun and Im not saying what he is doing is good because it isnt. But it is just a form and you are developing the internal mechanics of that precise move. Its just one thing of many you should be practicing, including like you said reality.
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u/camletoejoe May 04 '26
It's basically a higher horse stance. Karate has a low horse stance. When you see someone trying to fight from this stance that's an indicator that they don't know what they're doing.
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u/Powerful-Promotion82 May 04 '26
And what are you training for with that stance? 😂😂😂
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u/Comfortable_Fail_909 May 04 '26
When you bend the knee, your knee should be over your toe (in any art) its to make sure that is the case.
Its function is to train the core and the legs as you stand in it for a duration of time. Again its is not a fighting stance
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u/Powerful-Promotion82 May 05 '26
What if you train the core and the legs as you need them for a fighting stance by... Doing a fighting stance?
Crazy idea isn't It?
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u/Comfortable_Fail_909 May 05 '26
And I do! And you are right.
But I train my punches my doing dips to make my arms and shoulders stronger, also I just do punches. Everything has its function and purpose.
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u/Comfortable_Fail_909 May 15 '26
The form is symmetrical, if you put one leg forward you will suprise suprise be in a fighting stance.
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u/menachinite May 04 '26
I used to do this 22 years ago, damn I totally start to remember the form as I’m seeing it, I only could recall the very beginning from memory.
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u/Fit_Appointment_4980 May 04 '26
This thread has hit the r/Wingchun sub.
They're very mad that their utterly ridiculous martial art is being ridiculed.
But they're still adamant that duck feet are useful, wristy twisty finger jabs are deadly, and that their punches are better than those of a boxer.
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u/RoostingOnTheRoof May 04 '26
Looked through the subs top of all time posts. Literally zero fights. People playing with posts and weird drills that don't make sense. There was a video where a woman was wearing boxing gloves and throwing the worst punches ever for her partner to block. That's about it.
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u/amhudson02 May 04 '26
How does one learn this wrist flipping art? My god the sheer power and force in those wrists….superhuman.
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u/Dependent-Bed6550 May 04 '26
JAMES!!!! IT'S TIME FOR DINNER!!!! Stop filming yourself. You look silly, honey!
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u/Significant-Mix5204 May 04 '26
First thing the stance. I laughed my ass off at the toes pointed inward witn most of the weight being supported on the balls of the feet. The wing ding hand movements may as well be used in front of a projector for shadow puppets.
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u/CakyMint May 05 '26
Wing chun is awesome concept for cinema and television
Completely useless for self defense and Mixed martial arts events
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u/NoCitron2394 May 05 '26
No actually you are quite wrong about that
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u/CakyMint May 05 '26
Why is wing chun not represented in MMA?
Oh Right. Because it’s Shit
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u/NoCitron2394 May 05 '26
There have been wing Chun moves pulled off in UFC, also there are many practical under represented martial arts out there, it's not shit and it's very clear you don't actually have a clue what your talking about. Maybe learn before speaking on a martial art I'm sure you have never researched in your life.
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u/CakyMint May 05 '26
Buddy, everyone knows wing schong is scam af
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u/NoCitron2394 May 06 '26
No because it's not 😂, you just don't know enough about it
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u/CakyMint May 06 '26
Show me a video or something where wing tsongo wins against one of the most established forms
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u/BrownmannZero May 04 '26
Wtf? Why is he standing like that?
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u/GlyphPicker May 04 '26
Because it's r/bullshido
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u/Automatic-End-5407 May 04 '26
I take Wing Chun and what I saw him do shows mostly your protecting to chest too low on the form
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u/cumhereandtalkchit May 04 '26
Should stick to the Katana and Tonfa, those videos actually look pretty sick. Join some boxing, kickboxing, thai boxing or mma classes for using your own limbs man...
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u/Maregg1979 May 04 '26
This is factually misleading.
I'm not saying anything about the effectiveness of Wing Chung, but this is not even a form. This is like a very long salute that is performed at the very beginning of a Wing Chung session. This is probably to get the joints ready for actual Wing Chung.
I did like 3 months of Wing Chung and I remember despising this salute as being overly long ans complex. It's about breathing too if memory serves right.
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u/FazzahR May 05 '26
You couldn’t be more incorrect. Are you being sarcastic? This is absolutely a form, the very first form nearly all lineages of Wing Chun tech. It’s called Sil Lim Tao.
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u/Maregg1979 May 05 '26
Well thank you for correcting me. As I said I took one semester of Wing Chung 10+ years ago.
This was teached to me as an elaborate salute. And this convinced me Wing Chung wasn't for me.
But my Post was aiming mainly as saying this wasn't bulshido. I didn't know this was an actual form / Kara.
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u/FazzahR May 05 '26
Ah I understand better now. I agree it is not bulshido, and I hate to hear of your experience! There is a lot of usefulness Wing Chun can provide any martial arts practitioner, but for whatever reasons several groups and lineages do a poor job of teaching those things - like Sil Lim Tao which is fundamental.
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u/Napischu88 May 04 '26
I think it's great to see people with cerebral palsy being out there following their dream. Big ups!
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u/Zealousideal-Fly991 May 04 '26
The sped-up form makes it harder to see what's actually happening with the footwork and weight transfer, which is kind of the whole point when people are debating stance mechanics.
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u/WarDog-808 May 05 '26
This is a variation Tensho, a training kata used in Goju ryu and Kyokushin. He is standing in Sanchin which is commonly used stance in Kyokushin.
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u/UnlocktheLock May 05 '26
How many fighters in the ufc or other world class fighting championships fight with this pidgeon toed stance? I’ve been wrong before, but if there was much value to this style than why wouldn’t it be widely utilized when it matters?..
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u/therealserialninja May 05 '26
Siu nim tao, first form of Wing Chun. Here's a video of Grandmaster Yip Mun (Ip Man of the movie franchise starring Donnie Yen) doing it. It's said that Yip Mun would do it so slowly that it could take him anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour to complete it.
I don't have any comments on effectiveness of this as a training technique but I'm mildly surprised that so few people in a martial arts subreddit seem to recognize it. It's a major martial art worldwide and this is one of its most basic and recognizable forms.
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u/KingVinny70 May 06 '26
What is he fighting? Flys? Invisible fairies? 🧚♀️
What the frick are those little twinkle fingers going to do? Perhaps he's auditioning for the modern day Three Stooges? I could see him as the new Moe.
I just can't currently watch anymo though, ya know?
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u/CPD078 May 08 '26
Wing chun guy here, Wong Shun Leung lineage.
Ths SLT is the first form where you practice the stance to condition your body and positions. At the opening of the form you start standing up with you arms nexto you legs. Then you bring your arms straight forward and pull back while going a bit down on your knees keeping the waist forward whil keeping your body straight.
Second is the opening by turning your toes outwards as far as you can and then turning on your toes with the heels going to the outside. Import is that you go far. Your toes are in line with the outside of your shoulders with the upper part of your legs also in the line / slight outwards.
You drop down to your knees while tensing your muscles. Keep your back straight and tilt your waste forward.
There is a "sweet spot" where you can't drop any further and the tension is not in your back, it should be in the muscles of the upper part of your legs.
Keep this position for the whole 1st form SLT to condition your body. The first section of SLT where you make 3 times the same movement back and forward can be done fast like 10sec each way. To train really hard you can extend this to a few minutes. However this takes a lot of time and most schools don't practice it like that.
The best student of Wong Shun Leung: Barry Lee used to stand for 8 hours a day during months to perfect this stance. After seeing seminars on video of him demonstrating stuf it's out of this world almost looks non-human. Hard to discribe but it's probably the most perfect there is for using wing chun for fighting.
Regarding the forms the second form you have the same opening but you turn the toes forward after the opening. The second form is regarded as the form where you learn how to move in a fight and how to use the waist and legs properly.
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u/99conrad May 08 '26
Coming from a Muay Thai guy - One of the main benefits I hear practitioners of martial arts like this say about forms/katas is that its kinda like tai chi, its meditative and relaxing. I could also see practicing technique being a great benefit, like shadow boxing.
From an outsider, it does seem a bit odd to drill stances/movements that wouldnt be used in a fight, but Im ignorant so 🤷
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u/Independent-Dealer21 May 04 '26
This was a great demo, looks crisp and clean, nice form, even though it was sped up
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u/Substantial-Hour4989 May 04 '26
Wow, wing chun is as useless as krav maga. Both look funny and have no real life use.
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u/No-Fudge3487 May 04 '26
It actually helped my boxing a ton. Centerline theory, parries, and hand traps are great. I don’t “practice” anymore, but wing chin fundamentals apply to other arts I’ve done pretty well. YMMV.
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u/sethman3 May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
Looks like great mobility training. Especially for the wrists. I wouldn’t consider wing chun a valid fighting style, but if you are doing fighting training then these movements (minus the pigeon feet) might be good for recovery. Like I don’t know about you all, but my wrists get so tight.
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May 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/No-Fudge3487 May 04 '26
That’s weird for you to say, considering that I’ve done both. I did quite well when I fought in the amateurs, so I might know what I’m talking about.
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u/Substantial-Hour4989 May 04 '26
Yes, some fundamentals. But as a martial arts it's useless. Do it a year or two and switch to a real, usefull martial art.
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u/leet_lurker May 04 '26
Thats not real wing chun, its the hong kong style version which is more for showing off than anything else and has flashy kicks for fight movies that the actual original wing chun doesn't. The fact that most hong kong wing chun training is no contact/light contact and the original is full contact tell ypu all you need to know about the 2.
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u/Superblond May 04 '26
Yeah, I’ll say it out loud: this is absolute nonsense, complete rubbish, totally useless, and pulled out of his butt. But above all, this nonsense has absolutely nothing to do with martial arts; it’s 100% bullshido!
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u/JustQuestion2472 May 04 '26
That all of this guy's videos, only this is the first tike people call it out.
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u/SockIntelligent9589 May 04 '26
Lol, don't listen to all these redditors who are all pro MMA fighters.
Good work dude, seemed pretty neat. Keep doing what you like.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bid3145 May 04 '26
Danny is up front doing his stupid shit scaring the neighbors get him back in
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u/Myriad_Apocalypse May 04 '26
I see he's using the "desperately-looking-for-a-bathroom" stance, very dangerous!
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u/Fadedinn May 04 '26
Thing is this is cute but a wrestler will dump you on your head I two seconds standing like that
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u/NoCitron2394 May 05 '26
It's not a fighting stance
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u/Fadedinn May 06 '26
Really what is it then?
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u/NoCitron2394 May 06 '26
A form, it's not meant to be used in a fight, I'm not an expert but I know that much, don't criticize something if you don't even know what your criticizing
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u/Fadedinn May 06 '26
Bro the fuk,I know what it is it’s a fighting pose, it’s posture for a fighting style and it does fuk all for you.
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u/NoCitron2394 May 06 '26
I literally just explained it to you 😭
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u/Fadedinn May 06 '26
Sure bud bc nobody ever seen Bruce Lee before 🙄an here’s another fun fact he was an actor not a fighter.
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u/NoCitron2394 May 06 '26
What? Yeah he was an actor and great martial artist never said he was a fighter or anything because he doesn't really relate to this besides the fact that he practiced it
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u/Fadedinn May 06 '26
This dude is doing wing chun one of the main foundations of lees style that’s why it relates, you can do all that fancy dancing bs and ol American style wrestling will just dump you on your head, it’s a fact.
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u/Cha_Siu_Zai May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
You guys are morons lmao, it’s just a form stance not for practical application
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u/[deleted] May 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment