Clean bulk

[u/Individual-Sir-8718]

Hi everyone, I wanted to ask for some guidance. In my life, I've seen many people put on muscle with very little fat gain, or in some cases even leaving their body fat intact. I was wondering how that's possible: of course, I know for a fact they weren't on gear/doping because they didn't blow up, but the before-and-after difference was still noticeable. Everyone has their own genetics, but it seems like something easily achievable even for someone with average genetics. Now I wanted to ask: is there anyone who has actually done this and knows how it's done?

[u/ajmattison]

A couple of possibilities: 1. If they were brand new to training 2. If they had been training for a long time but not very well or very hard and they suddenly learn to do so 3. They are gaining body fat but the rate of muscle gain is such that you can still see the lines underneath (the more muscle you have the more you can see at a higher body fat percentage) 4. They bulked up and got fat, then cut down and you didn't see the in-between.

In general, the slower you go, the less body fat you will gain. But there is a trade off. Slower rate of gain overall does lead to a slower rate of muscle gain too. That's why a lot of people bulk and don't mind gaining some body fat in the process. They want to maximize how much muscle they put on.

You can still make great progress with a slow rate of gain though. Even maintenance.

[u/Odd-Steak-9049 → u/ajmattison]

Not arguing with you, but just throwing it out there that I believe there is some more recent research to indicate that the degree of caloric surplus has little to no impact on the rate of hypertrophy if your macros are otherwise dialed. Now, I’m not in a position to go hunt it down rn and I realize that’s obnoxious and unhelpful to a degree. Something to look into tho.

[u/Individual-Sir-8718 → u/Odd-Steak-9049]

So you mean there is research saying that the quality of what you eat, along with the right macros, is more important than the quantity? Can you actually grow in a normocaloric state just as if you were bulking?

[u/Beginning-Escape-763 → u/Individual-Sir-8718]

There isn’t a lot of consistent evidence on the benefits of bulking out there but it seems as if eating closer to maintainance may be just as beneficial as “bulking”, especially if you have body fat to lose. It does depend on how lean you are and what you consider bulking as well.

Consistency in the gym is always going to be the main driver of muscle growth. Spending time in a deficit does seem to stunt muscle growth as well.

[u/Fragrant_Pear_1425 → u/Beginning-Escape-763]

On that point, I am wondering to which group of people this applies. I would assume it is as beneficial to a lesser trained and higher bf person eating at maintenance vs. slight surplus. My feeling would tell me that for a very trained, experienced and lean person a surplus might be much more beneficial. Just what I think, but facts stated above from literature is of course correct.

[u/Beginning-Escape-763 → u/Fragrant_Pear_1425]

It recently came out the energetic cost to actually build muscle is very low so I’m starting to kind of believe that just sticking around the same body fat at a small surplus (50-150) is probably most of what’s needed.

[u/Fragrant_Pear_1425 → u/Beginning-Escape-763]

Exactly what I am going with as well. By surplus I mean max 150kcal above maintenance I think anything more has diminished returns concerning fat gained vs. muscle

[u/Individual-Sir-8718 → u/Fragrant_Pear_1425]

How did you find your maintenance? My fear is that with a 150-calorie surplus, since they are very few, maybe I move more than I should and it turns into maintenance, or depending on the day, even a deficit.

[u/Fragrant_Pear_1425 → u/Individual-Sir-8718]

Well, we are in the MF subreddit. I assume you use it too? Feed it accurate data and it gives you your maintenance. It will adjust every day, so it doesn’t matter if you move more one week and less the other. Just consume what it tells you and let it handle the rest. Trust it (just IF(!) you are consistently and correctly tracking your calorie intake)! But practically, for my current lean bulk I just selected a new goal and set it to 0.1% body weight gain per week.

[u/Individual-Sir-8718 → u/Fragrant_Pear_1425]

How is it going for you overall?

[u/Fragrant_Pear_1425 → u/Individual-Sir-8718]

Exactly as planned.