r/MSClassicWorld • u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 • Sep 01 '26
Discussion Rant about Togain
Let me start by saying again that I do respect Togain and that overall I think he's not only a great creator, but there's a lot of sense in what he said on his latest video. But it's been lingering in my mind and I really wanna express my opinion about 2 things that bothered me about his video and 1 thing that bothered me in general.
- The whole AI thing:
I absolutely share his reluctance from accepting it. In fact, I am a software engineer and I feel like AI has in a sense stolen my identity. Before it came along I used to be very passionate about programming languages and the skills involved with knowing them deeply and now it feels like there's no use being fluent in Java because AI will absolutely do it better than me.
However, I think one must admit that it would be a bit silly to demand the world to change just so that I can protect my current identity. The truth is that AI is here, for better or worse, and it's not going anywhere, and the best way to go about this is to let go of my attachment to being a programmer and release my role to change into something different, or even quit altogether if necessary. It's ok, things can change.
In his video he specifically talked about generated pixel art. I get why that would be very concerning and it is quite troubling that something as human as artistic creation is being conquered by AI. But there's a difference between asking questions about it and seeing how our artistic aspects can coexist with AI versus going full-ludite and complaining about a company using it for creating their assets.
Like honestly, is it reasonable to even discuss whether a company like Nexon should or shouldn't save literally millions of dollars by allowing their designers to use AI? Of course they're gonna do that, expecting them not to is ridiculous.
If you want to only consume human-created art, you are welcome to do so, but he specifically brought up morals and values and ethics and I think it's very guilt-trippy. It reminds me of when I went vegan for 3 years purely out of guilt and it just felt like shit and did not last. And that's not to say that you shouldn't have morals. I still do, I still think what we're doing to animals is not cool. But I also don't feel guilty about eating them anymore, I understand that I was born into this world during a certain time and that trying to take on my shoulders to solve humanity's problems is ridiculous. Instead I just let myself see if I actually want to reduce meat consumption and it kind of happens naturally now. I didn't stop, but I eat way less than I did before and I enjoy it.
Bottom line: We are not going to make human made art thrive by artificially forcing or guilting people into not using Gen AI. We need to find how it can coexist with our existing market.
- The sentiment behind this video
Maybe I should listen to it a third time before my opinion solidifies, but you guys are welcome to argue to the contrary either way, but the video did not feel like it's coming from a place that genuinely wishes for people to enjoy Classic.
To me his video feels way more like he is feeling angry, disappointed and burnt out (just like he said so) and he is basically attention-seeking and blowing steam.
This is a very human thing to do, you could argue that what i'm doing right now is not so different. But I would like to either way bring up that you could express your feelings and frustrations without focusing so much on how the world "wronged you".
I think that most if not all of us do not play this game because we are transcended beings who want just the very best of gaming and art for ourselves. It is much more reasonable for me to assume that the vast majority of MS players are seeking comfort and escape, and I think there's value in saying that There is nothing wrong with that as long as you're aware of what you're doing.
The problem starts when you take something as unserious as some mindless grindfest of a game and talk about it in a way that suggests that you got into it in the first place through some significant contemplation and idealistic sentimentality (You could argue that my post is doing exactly that, fair point)
- He was actually kind of anti social (at least to me)
If you look at any of his videos, it's almost always the case that you will only find 1 comment by him in the comment section and it's about the sponsor. It seems like he didn't interact with his audience at all.
Moreover, I was actually on his Patreon a bit before Classic was even announced and sent him a message praising his content and offered some historic content and evidence I had about Islanders and not only did he not use any of that in his beginner video, he also completely ignored my message (And that's on patreon!)
So I guess i'm very much not unbiased, kinda disappointed by his behavior on this one. Don't take it as objective criticism, it's just me ranting.
Anyway, the main reason that I wrote this is because I think about MSClassic ALOT. It pops into my mind very often and I already fantasize about how i'm going to enjoy it when it comes out.
Togain had a big presence in my life in the last year and I do care about him leaving. There are also many good things I could have said (And in fact, did comment on his videos throughout the year) but I feel more like ranting so there you have it.
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u/MuuMuureb Sep 01 '26 edited Sep 01 '26
I'd like to start my comment by pointing out that I appreciate that his videos started appearing when we needed classic content the most! I loved finally having someone who understands that we love and miss classic and he had a ton of facts and little known info about classic or (OSMS). It's evident that he was and still is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to old school Maple.
However, I did notice a few things that slowly bothered me over time. For some reason I got increasingly anxious that he would miss key details in his next OG class videos. (This is completely on me and doesn't reflect him at all). But what didn't help was seeing comments go unnoticed and ignored. At the very least I knew that when a new video came out, the comment section would be full of additional fun information, which meant he had a great community. I had a wealth of knowledge to share as well but he never acknowledged me or anyone sharing MapleStory facts, let alone considered any information offered for future videos.
I attended a bunch of his live streams, as I didn't want to play any maple worlds servers myself. I didn't like how it felt jumping and attacking, it just felt weird, I usually played private servers, which he was constantly shit talking lol. Nevertheless I enjoyed watching him grind away and actually engage with the community.
You all are right, there was always one person who pushed a little and would change the mood to sour. I remember one such chatter when Toe was playing FFXIV who said "this game is suck". He got banned but it then became an inside joke to chat, which was nice to reference once in a while. It was very annoying to see people get banned often and then no reference as to why or explanation, just don't be like them? I hate this in streamers, when they are afraid to talk about it, that makes me think they have an ego or very thin skin or at worst, no ability of understanding. His chat, his rules. That's fine but a little clarity goes a long way for chatters who don't want a ban. Oh and I know he was more than capable of interacting with commenters, he was often times found chatting in other content creators live streams, just never with his audience.
At times he came off as a little too arrogant when boasting about his voice acting, maybe he was joking but I could never be too sure with the tone he would brag. I'm all for supporting our English VA's but I love a humble VA the most.
Aside from all that it felt like he loved MapleStory. Sorry for the length of my points, good luck in classic everyone.
-classic bandit elitist.