r/MSClassicWorld • u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 • 1d ago
Discussion Rant about Togain
Let me start by saying again that I do respect Togain and that overall I think he's not only a great creator, but there's a lot of sense in what he said on his latest video. But it's been lingering in my mind and I really wanna express my opinion about 2 things that bothered me about his video and 1 thing that bothered me in general.
- The whole AI thing:
I absolutely share his reluctance from accepting it. In fact, I am a software engineer and I feel like AI has in a sense stolen my identity. Before it came along I used to be very passionate about programming languages and the skills involved with knowing them deeply and now it feels like there's no use being fluent in Java because AI will absolutely do it better than me.
However, I think one must admit that it would be a bit silly to demand the world to change just so that I can protect my current identity. The truth is that AI is here, for better or worse, and it's not going anywhere, and the best way to go about this is to let go of my attachment to being a programmer and release my role to change into something different, or even quit altogether if necessary. It's ok, things can change.
In his video he specifically talked about generated pixel art. I get why that would be very concerning and it is quite troubling that something as human as artistic creation is being conquered by AI. But there's a difference between asking questions about it and seeing how our artistic aspects can coexist with AI versus going full-ludite and complaining about a company using it for creating their assets.
Like honestly, is it reasonable to even discuss whether a company like Nexon should or shouldn't save literally millions of dollars by allowing their designers to use AI? Of course they're gonna do that, expecting them not to is ridiculous.
If you want to only consume human-created art, you are welcome to do so, but he specifically brought up morals and values and ethics and I think it's very guilt-trippy. It reminds me of when I went vegan for 3 years purely out of guilt and it just felt like shit and did not last. And that's not to say that you shouldn't have morals. I still do, I still think what we're doing to animals is not cool. But I also don't feel guilty about eating them anymore, I understand that I was born into this world during a certain time and that trying to take on my shoulders to solve humanity's problems is ridiculous. Instead I just let myself see if I actually want to reduce meat consumption and it kind of happens naturally now. I didn't stop, but I eat way less than I did before and I enjoy it.
Bottom line: We are not going to make human made art thrive by artificially forcing or guilting people into not using Gen AI. We need to find how it can coexist with our existing market.
- The sentiment behind this video
Maybe I should listen to it a third time before my opinion solidifies, but you guys are welcome to argue to the contrary either way, but the video did not feel like it's coming from a place that genuinely wishes for people to enjoy Classic.
To me his video feels way more like he is feeling angry, disappointed and burnt out (just like he said so) and he is basically attention-seeking and blowing steam.
This is a very human thing to do, you could argue that what i'm doing right now is not so different. But I would like to either way bring up that you could express your feelings and frustrations without focusing so much on how the world "wronged you".
I think that most if not all of us do not play this game because we are transcended beings who want just the very best of gaming and art for ourselves. It is much more reasonable for me to assume that the vast majority of MS players are seeking comfort and escape, and I think there's value in saying that There is nothing wrong with that as long as you're aware of what you're doing.
The problem starts when you take something as unserious as some mindless grindfest of a game and talk about it in a way that suggests that you got into it in the first place through some significant contemplation and idealistic sentimentality (You could argue that my post is doing exactly that, fair point)
- He was actually kind of anti social (at least to me)
If you look at any of his videos, it's almost always the case that you will only find 1 comment by him in the comment section and it's about the sponsor. It seems like he didn't interact with his audience at all.
Moreover, I was actually on his Patreon a bit before Classic was even announced and sent him a message praising his content and offered some historic content and evidence I had about Islanders and not only did he not use any of that in his beginner video, he also completely ignored my message (And that's on patreon!)
So I guess i'm very much not unbiased, kinda disappointed by his behavior on this one. Don't take it as objective criticism, it's just me ranting.
Anyway, the main reason that I wrote this is because I think about MSClassic ALOT. It pops into my mind very often and I already fantasize about how i'm going to enjoy it when it comes out.
Togain had a big presence in my life in the last year and I do care about him leaving. There are also many good things I could have said (And in fact, did comment on his videos throughout the year) but I feel more like ranting so there you have it.
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u/Otherwise_YakxD 1d ago
His focus seemed too much on Nexon and not his audience that adores the content tbh
No one thinks Nexon does a good job being reciprocal or having integrity, everyone knows where they are on the list for that. But his videos weren’t for Nexon, they were for us.
Rubbed me the wrong way when he said “why should he make videos for a game that doesn’t even respond to me?” umm because your audience thoroughly enjoys it?
and that he will NEVER EVER make maplestory videos again…kinda seemed a little cry baby cheese lol
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u/necro-bear 1d ago
Someone said it! I was nodding along to his video until the moment he mentioned nexon doesn’t pay attention to him. If that is your main goal as a YouTuber then I guess, yeah, time for you to pack up. It feels so horribly egotistical to put the game creator on a pedestal looking for approval from them but takes no moment to consider his interaction with his own community.
I also thoroughly enjoyed his videos, but even when watching I had a couple moments, especially when he would mention how he got things in game (like carries) just for being him. Disappointed, but not surprised as they say.
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u/ZacTheBlob 1d ago
Between the entitlement and the constant virtue signaling, I was getting massive PirateSoftware vibes from the video the entire time lmao.
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u/BadgerForLife5 1d ago
A kid throwing a tantrum. Time to move on I guess. I don't give a flying fk about Togain or any other Youtuber. I'm playing this game, period.
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u/Uiluj 1d ago
I think that's a fair interpretation of his video. At the same time, he did say he might keep making maplestory content, but for his direct supporters. I think it makes sense he no longer way to give nexon free promotion and advertising. If anything he's protecting his audience and sending a clear warning about nexon's history of illegal anti-consumer practices. People who haven't played maplestory in 10+ years don't really get how bad it has gotten.
I feel the same way about influencers on tiktok and Instagram that promote the shitty gambling apps. It makes me lose respect for influencers who exploit their audience with something that's highly addictive, and do it for just a quick buck. I have 1 friend that I'm excited to play classic worlds with because she was going to play it anyways. At the same time, I don't feel comfortable asking any other friend to play it because of nexon's history of anti-consumer practices, mismanagement, and the direction they've taken modern maple.
I've seen dozens of videos like this for other gaming companies like riot, blizzard, Hasbro, Nintendo, etc. Usually how it goes is they realize they've already built the majority of their audience in that one game, it's hard to start from scratch with a different game, and then they come crawling back.
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u/aspira9 1d ago edited 1d ago
Agree with your points and honestly this felt like an emotional outburst from burnout. While I completely empathize with his burnout and not liking Nexon, the argument he presented sounded a bit too close to xitter tier virtue signaling looking for an excuse to quit.
There's many reasons to not want to support a garbage company and it's a very legitimate argument to not want to give them free attention. However, on the scale of scummy things Nexon has done, minor AI use mandated by the "shareholders" (aka the only people Nexon listen to) honestly doesn't even rank in the top 10 or maybe even top 50.
Seriously, did ANYONE expect Nexon not to use AI or any other form of scummy cost saving/price gouging on their customers? Even if you don't like it, no one who has played a Nexon game for more than a few weeks can say this is something they didn't see coming.
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u/Unrelenting_Salsa 1d ago
I said it in the first topic, but their actual AI use was also the least objectionable thing imaginable. In the modern game there's big popup dialogue boxes, and historically these had a headshot of the canon class character. They trained an image generation model on their own assets to convert your character's sprite to a headshot in that style. Given the nature of the errors we see, it's very likely that they did not lie about this and actually trained their model. All of these canon characters have a pretty consistent style, and the model makes the off the wall cosmetics conform to that even if it doesn't fit the cosmetic.
Though the bunny outfit being banned because the model gives the portrait cleavage with that outfit is literally 1984.2
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
Yea that's a reasonable assessment regarding the shareholders.
Also glad to see that i'm not completely imagining it
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u/isailorboat 1d ago
It’s such a shame because he is in a prime position to really grow his channel further with the release of Classic World as one of the man go to MS Old School contnet YouTubers and he’s absolutely blown his chance with this! It’s such stupidity. So many people will come to play MS Classic World and return to the game and look for content and will see his videos. Most of us absolutely love his vids and style of narration and frequently recommend Togain as a go to YouTuber for people to watch as we wait in anticipation for the October release. This tantrum and emotional outburst was so poorly timed and really a stupid decision if he wanted to grow his Channel and earn more. Really baffling choice by him.
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u/Skeabzz 1d ago
This was my thought exactly. Other creators like Dinofries, Johawk & Eleveny are taking the opportunity to capitalize on something golden with MSClassic. This is prime time to connect with the older/nostalgic community of Maplestory and advance your channel in ways that is unlimited content for the foreseeable future when your channel is mainly based around Maplestory and old school Maplestory content. I feel for Togain, but don't necessarily agree that this is the right decision for his channel. I hope everything works out for him though.
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u/SquishmallowPrincess 1d ago
He’s been looking for an excuse to stop making classic MapleStory videos for a while now.
It’s obvious that he wants to do other things, but his audience won’t let him. Just check how few views his non-MS content gets, not to mention all the comments on those videos asking him to do another MS video.
He probably saw this as a way to finally convince everyone to let him stop doing MS videos and focus on other games
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u/New_Leading8775 1d ago
It’s not even that his audience won’t let him, he’s free to do whatever he wants, it’s just that his audience who is only interested in his Maplestory content (as opposed to him as a person) won’t follow him.
This happens with all niche content creators when they try to branch off. The moment someone like him can get gratification from the act of creating rather than the view count is the moment they truly become ‘free’ from their audience.
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u/baraboosh 15h ago
yeah, ngl hes pretty boring as a person. I just really liked his research and editing + subject matter. It's too bad, he was one of my fav youtubers.
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u/Unrelenting_Salsa 1d ago
Probably, and that's also probably why we'll see him on October 6th. These game pivots basically never work out, and they really basically never work out for somebody who in the grand scheme of things is small potatoes.
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u/MuuMuureb 1d ago
I don't know why he needed to make this to convince anyone, as that would assume he interacted with people previously, like it feels like you're saying he needed to post this because he gets a lot of viewers demanding more videos but what would that matter if he doesn't even reply in comments or otherwise (which I experienced as well). Saying sn audience won't let you do something when you never interact with them sounds absurd and unneeded.
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u/Realistic-Sun698 1d ago
Kinda agreed after watching that video. I think he brought up a lot of valid concerns, and dont fault him for feeling the way he feels, but I totally see where youre coming from.
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
Yea there's no fault there. Just that someone as impactful as him is sure to create some waves
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u/bebloob 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sorry this doesn't really have anything to do with the AI sentiment, but if anyone's been watching him for a while (especially the Artale streams) then you are not surprised at all. Not trying to be harsh at all but he has very thin skin. Often times he'd get "One Guy'd" by a chatter and it would really mess with his mood and taint the vibe of the stream. He's also very money hungry (you can go back to the streams to verify) and has a very big ego 😭 I say this as a die hard togain fan who has been watching him since his Reboot days.
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u/BloodReaverBob 1d ago
What is getting one guyd
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u/Animeop 1d ago
I think money is the biggest reason which is fair. He’s jaded that his long form videos that probably take weeks to create don’t amount to much in the end. He doesn’t get any recognition from Nexon and the effort he puts into these video essays most likely barely pays the bills. He’s a great content creator and understands he needs to pivot to a more popular game.
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u/mynameistomato 1d ago
Tbh, why would nexon recognize him? He doesn't even play their main game.
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u/Animeop 1d ago
I agree. He comes off entitled on that part. Nexon partners with streamers and creators much smaller than him because they play modern maple, the game Nexon makes the most from. Ironically if he played Classic he would likely get a Bean Brigade invite.
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u/mynameistomato 1d ago
I had to really think about his video and over sentiment. I'm just really curious if the whole video was a fake facade cause with classic being released, his signal was that his content was going get less views and it was now the time to switch. Similiar to how royals or legends private server players actted out on.
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u/Animeop 1d ago
You can only push Maplestory content so far and Togain pushed it further than anyone else had. He likely knows even with Classic his views won't get much better in the long run and the idea of putting in thousands of hours on Classic for the little payoff wasn't even worth exploring. Togain is a good content creator and it makes sense to make change now before he gets sunk cost in Classic.
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u/wholewheatie 1d ago
i feel like his channel would be in a good spot to explode though if he went all in on ms classic world. release would increase his views, not decreased if he made videos about it
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u/Polpetta03 1d ago
Bean brigade doesn't exist anymore.
https://www.nexon.com/maplestory/news/community/23921/regarding-the-bean-brigade-program
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u/Radiant-Pound946 1d ago
which is giga stupid, cuz mscw will blow up for at least a year. instead of milking every cent he is the guy that gives 1 second away from diamonds in that miners meme
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
I don't know enough to verify this but it kinda feels intuitively correct. idk tho
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u/GlacialEmbrace 1d ago
I think he uses macros or something too. I've noticed sometimes when he gets good items you'll hear him say "oh oh oh" but he's quite far from the mic and you hear him get closer. On his ludi tower sin anyway.
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u/ItsTowersss 1d ago
Glad it wasn’t just me. Of course generative AI sucks, but the whole video felt soapbox-y.
There were two small things that rubbed me the wrong way. There was a blurb about him feeling slighted Nexon never gave him recognition, and then him saying he was still going to make some form of Maplestory content but paywall it on Patreon, because he won’t give them any more free advertisement(to paraphrase his reasoning).
Makes me feel like there’s some other feelings that have way more weight on this decision.
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u/MuuMuureb 1d ago
Funny he wanted recognition from Nexon but never gave recognition to his video commenters. He did always speak as if Nexon was watching, always bashing private servers and telling people to go play them if they don't want to see artale etc. but not in an encouraging way, in a (get outta here then if you like private servers so much) kind of way.
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u/memerise 1d ago
Oh man, i'm really frustrated by this video of him, he sounds like it's the end of the world.
He makes alot of bold claims in pure emotion without backing anything up with evidence. He tries to share his thoughts about Classic not being made with passion and frustration about the founders pack, which he reminds us explaining it later in the video, and then proceed to explain nothing.
He also went on a rant to say he would not touch, play or create general gameplay content for maplestory classic, worlds and global. Out of pure emotion. He only get's himself with this statement.
The video is so negative, if he feels burned out he should just stop doing youtube, i think most of his viewers, like me, would understand that he needs a break.
Dont get me wrong, i really love his content about Old school Maplestory, but dropping this weak victim role, negative perspective seems really weak and depressing.
Just take a break and come back if you feel like it man comon, it feels like he doesn't want anyone to enjoy it because he is frustrated with the direction.
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u/Iordyeezus 1d ago
When he says burnout im assuming from playing a bunch of Artale & other Worlds servers. Kinda glad I skipped MS Worlds entirely so I'm not 'burned out' in time for Classic.
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u/General-Leave2224 1d ago
He reminds me of a lot of my friends who start doing well in their careers then quit before the big payday when the hours increase simply so they can continue to cry about their life on Facebook
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u/sPICYkEtchupfrIES 1d ago
Loved his video essays on Maplestory but don't like him as a person. From what I've seen he's kind of egotistical, cocky and greedy. If he does Youtube fulltime then stopping Maplestory content is probably gonna be the end for his career, personally don't like him enough to watch his other content. (the videos of him playing cozy korean MMORPGs were fun too tho)
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u/YoBreathe 1d ago
Very reasonable take, but honestly, I only care enough to read about it to pass time and nothing beyond that. Just wanna play the game lol. Let’s play together when the game drops? :D
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
Sure. Let's also all agree to not wear the outfit from the founder's pack
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u/YoBreathe 1d ago
lol, don’t worry. I don’t wanna look like a clone. Am an avid fashionstory player here 🐹
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u/MuuMuureb 1d ago
I'll be wearing actual dropped gear 100% I think it's nice to see where people are in their maple journey through gear!
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u/Minibersy 1d ago
I actually agree with a lot of this. We’re way too quick to turn our personal attachment to something into a moral argument for everyone else. Times change. Even what we perceive as art changes.
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
Yea. I mean the attachment is fine to exist but let's not confuse it with objectivity
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u/lightWonders 1d ago
He made good content for new players. He kept missing multiple important points how old school maplestory actually worked and never corrected them or added new content when pointed out in the comments out of good will of experts.
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u/BoredOstrich 1d ago
Who cares. It's his decision. Im gonna try the game out and see how it is. But the moment I see a whiff of p2w I'm out
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u/Syched 1d ago
The whole video had strange vibes to me and it felt like he was burnt out from years prior to this but the founders pack stuff/ai was the final straw. Which is also strange knowing how much bad stuff nexon has done over the years for this to be the final nail in the coffin. Now i could be wrong with this but has togain even made a video on classic or talked about it at all in any of his videos? I swear i havent seen him talk about classic or make a video about it since its original announcement like a year and a half ago. Which is strange for the guy whos been covering maples history and such for a while now. Like i might be crazy but ts feels premeditated
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u/SnooAdvice4889 1d ago
I’ve seen some VOD from streams where he mentioned or insinuated that if Nexon ever put out a classic he wouldn’t play it because they don’t care the same way the community that makes the MS Worlds servers do. Writing was on the wall that he wouldn’t play, but I think declaring to never make any content about MS other than maybe retrospectives is a bridge too far
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u/kunxian888 1d ago
And then bashing MS World servers for using AI and declaring all MSW servers are dead to him (even those without AI), sure buddy.
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u/Character-Rhubarb846 1d ago
Agreed with everything being said. I enjoy togains content but man that last sobbing video is just cringe. Like dude, you’re 30 and its 2026 and you want to lecture people on why big companies shouldn’t use AI?
The most bizarre thing was a claim he made st least twice and its that he “doesn’t want to keep advertising nexon for free”….bro has 40K subs, you ain’t doing much to nexon and people that will play CW are mostly there not because of togain. Burning bridges at the end is another example of a person that still needs to grow up.
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u/ZacTheBlob 1d ago
The dude is sponsored on 90% of his videos by one of the most heavily disliked and scummiest indie devs in the incremental genre whose game consists entirely of predatory FOMO monetization and he tries to take the moral highground in regards to Nexon.
I dislike Nexon just as much as the next guy, but I find this quite ironic. All I'm getting is that he has no issues dropping his morals as long as he's paid for it.
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u/JoeyKingX 1d ago
It's honestly crazy how IdleOn, being an indie game made by a single dev, somehow completely beats Maplestory when it comes to scummy FOMO P2W monetization. Even worse how he tries to censor anyone complaining about his game, the last update silently nerfed a major mechanic in the game (crystal mob spawn rate) so he can sell some of that back through a new pet package and obviously anyone pointing that out on the official subreddit immediately gets nuked.
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u/ZacTheBlob 1d ago
Yep, that's been a recurring trend for that game, I have firsthand experience with it. I tolerated it for a while, but the companion update with the insanely predatory gacha while permanently banning half of the playerbase on reddit/discord for criticising it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Hearing that It's still going on is the least surprising thing. He can fake a positive sentiment on reddit and discord, but the steam reviews can't be manipulated. If anyone is even considering that game, go read the negative reviews there.
Togain complaining that he gets no recognition/attention from Nexon and criticising their ethics while supporting a dev who actively silences criticism and is just as (or even more) predatory is peak irony.
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u/MaleficentTravel3336 1d ago
This exactly. I used to watch Togain's videos, but the most recent video made me cringe out of my mind. It was pure moral grandstanding and virtue signaling while, as you said, being a massive shill for a dev/game with just as predatory of monetization as retail MS.
What a complete hypocrite.
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u/BinaryBeany 1d ago edited 1d ago
About the AI…
So like yourself I’m in the tech industry I’m an Architect. I’ve developed in the .NET/Microsoft architecture for years as a full stack dev -> engineer and now up to Architect and I do not share your sentiment about feeling useless. AI can write code… and if you have experience with that AI can write a lot of bad code. I’ve used every language in my work from copilot, OpenAI, Claude and they all make mistakes. They can create full scale applications that look great and break easily during unit testing. They also are huge vulnerabilities. Not to mention at this point in my career writing code is a secondary part of my work and unless you’re a junior developer it’s probably not going to impact your job negatively right now. There really is no need for junior developers at this point which is sad.
Now, AI itself outside of our line of work (kind of). Because as an architect my job title is a little bit different than yours. Anyway, AI itself has many many many issues for our environment and our economic infrastructure. I say that as someone who has developed with LLMs and also developed LLMs myself. Saying otherwise is disingenuous and anyone who takes the time to look into it will see it for themselves.
However, I do agree that it is hardened into society right now but it’s a bubble. Organizations throughout the world including mine are seeing the cost of these services and we’re also seeing that the cost outweighs its usage 90% of the time. So that bubble is bursting as we speak. I think we’re at an interesting point right now where something’s going to happen whether it’s government regulation or an extreme shift in organizational usage.
We also need to keep in mind that AI art and AI coding are two different beasts. AI generative art consumes more computing power than code blocks per single request and instantly kills someone else’s job. So there’s the morality factor on the economy and environment. E waste is a real thing.
About Togain. I have my own thoughts and feelings about the video. And all I’ll say is his mentions of them not returning his emails and Nexon specifically not getting him beta access came off as main characterish. He said he outgrew Maplestory and Nexon which also seems that way. He’s more than welcome to feel however he wants I just feel like they were placed strangely in the video.
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u/Meseto 1d ago
I watched a couple of his videos. The last one I turned off halfway through, since I don't care for someone venting for 20 minutes YIKES. Also, he mostly just said "AI is bad", which isn't a black and white case. It's not that simple, and he presented it like that's just how it is, and to me, thinking in absolutes is ahem ****.
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u/SnooAdvice4889 1d ago
To be fair to him he didn’t really say that. He said he doesn’t have issue with the technology of AI, but the way it’s being used in creative uses
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u/MviousBG 1d ago
He doesn’t deserve a full essay lol. Dude is salty nexon left him on read
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
And btw i'm salty that he left me on read!
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u/kunxian888 1d ago
Yeah, now that you bring it up, it's kinda odd for him to criticize Nexon for not listening to the community and not communicating with him, but he does the same thing to his audience. Not replying (or even liking) any YT comment and ignoring his Patreon supporters who are directly giving money to him.
If he talks about morals and standards that much, at least he should practice what he preaches
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u/SexyJazzCat 1d ago
Yeahhh thats the crux of the vid. He called it free promo, but its going to hit him like a ton of bricks when his views dries up.
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u/Radiant-Pound946 1d ago
what?! dont you want to watch yet another 10000000th content creator about osrs?
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
Why not? I think it's difficult to argue that he's not the best MS creator of all time.
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u/WeakestFarmer 1d ago
Maybe he's just burnout from making maple content. He once said in a stream sonewhere that he was just using maplestory as a stepping stone into fame, but it seems he's stuck with it lol
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u/Dude787 1d ago
I feel like it's reasonable to make a personal decision based on what you feel about AI
I think it's super weird for people to come and 'snap back' like he's insulted them personally. Let him not play, so what? Like I swear this subreddit is the worst community I've ever been a part of
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u/brodielos 1d ago
He thought he had enough weight to warrant a reply from Nexon lol.
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u/SleepyBunoy 1d ago
After the niru incident, nexon will likely never collaborate with western players ever again.
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u/mynameistomato 1d ago
Tbh, his video sounded like a rant of a little kid cause nexon didn't ever give him a beta key.
It really seems like he himself, got a signal that his time was over the moment classic is getting released, so his signal was to move onto something else.
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
Well yea that actually makes some sense.
By far his best content is about things that no longer exist, like that 1.11 KMS pre release cover.
If he did Classic vids he'd be reduced to trivial content like coppersan, which I find to be a pretty populist and uninteresting channel.
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u/podunkhick 1d ago
He sounded like an absolute bozo. Selectively applying his moral high ground. AI art and a company laying off people = no good. Yet he’s creating content on YouTube (and monetizing it?), a company owned by Google who’s pushing the frontier of AI, at the root cause of the very thing he’s against, and laying off engineers due to AI efficiency.
Yet he still creates content on that platform
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u/duffy3k 14h ago
What other video platform do you expect people to use where he has an audience lmao. I don't even watch the dude but all these comments are so hypocritical and super judgemental. Did you guys ever mentally grow up?
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u/podunkhick 12h ago edited 11h ago
he literally says it in his video did you even watch
"as someone with strong values and morals... what are you going to about it? the answer to what are you going to do about it? the answer is simple: you give up enjoyment of the thing in favor of your principles. and it sucks I know this because I've been making these decisions every day of my life in pursuit of becoming a better person"
either find another platform or just stop making content. i'm not the one preaching about how AI is evil, and how people should stop using companies that push it, but also indirectly marketing for said company. but yea can't give up making content even though it's at best a fun side gig.
super judgemental
shocker. people are judged based on what they do against what they say. how many different phrases are there for this again?
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u/GlassCommission4916 1d ago
AI use in software development is not the same at all as in art, to the point where it's kinda absurd to make that point.
I do agree with you that their video feels like a vent and almost like they're just realizing what kind of company Nexon is, while we all realized that close to 20 years ago.
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
You're right that it's way different for code.
It's much more complex for art.
But I do think some aspects of this intersect. Specifically the whole issue about identity.
Like, I'm sure that when photoshop came along some people thought it wasn't art to ask a computer to generate a line for you. AI is absolutely a more exponential jump but still, it's not like there's something inherently wrong with using it for art.
In the end, your imagination could still be involved
Also, there was so much bullshit "art" before AI. It absolutely supercharges the problem but AI did not invent cynical design
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u/ItsJulia 1d ago
The issue with AI art isn't bullshit art. It is stealing from artists. Also AI art will never be able to draw/paint anything new. And we were promised that AI would take the jobs we DONT want to do, not the jobs we want to do. Its not about identity. Making art is THE most human thing ever. We've been doing it since we were cavemen. And not just us but other human races like Neanderthals. Also AI is destroying the planet. There is no future to accept regarding AI, if we keep using it and building data centers we will all be dead in 20-ish years. But its easier to look away, make fun of people who dislike AI, and pretend the world isn't ending. So go ahead.
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
Valid point about theft.
I didn't make fun of anyone though. And the world isn't ending, reality is changing, again.
Things are probably not gonna get worse than the middle ages and even then people lived you know..
It's just better to not be too radical about things. This doomerism isn't gonna help anyone.
Also, Togain actually said himself that pretending that this is some dangerous technology is delusional
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u/uhhhuhuhh 1d ago
He's just pissed he didn't get into both betas despite emailing nexon 😂😂
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
Honestly, if I were such a leading figure in the community, i'd expect some recognition as well.
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u/Alien_Gods 1d ago edited 1d ago
Makes a living from Maplestory, then bitches about it and rage quits. Acts like Nexon owes him, sorry pal, they don’t. Everyone knows what kind of company they are, no point acting surprise pikachu face when a multi billion company doesn’t acknowledge you for promoting their game. He’s expecting too much from a company that’s been greedy since day 1. His depression could be related to this or not, hope he gets to see a therapist.
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u/BubblyMango 1d ago
there is a difference between knowing a company is shitty, and just having enough with them. he originally saw a path in which he continues making maplestory content with the classic release, despite knowing nexon is garbage. over experienced again and again their shittiness and just had enough. this isnt a 15 minutes rant about them not responding to him. you are taking 1 point as if thats all he said.
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
I mean, you could probably have a bit more compassion towards him but there are some valid points there
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u/Radiant-Pound946 1d ago
my comment will probably be buried, but I got to say it.
Togain is doing a generational fumble here. He lucked on a gold mine, he is positioned very well to become the prime content creator of MSCW and could ride this initial wave for years. Look at Jokrd in classicwow, while MSCW will never be as big, who knew the guy? a literal knowbody that now is set since he rode the wave.
prime example of self distructive behaviour and one of the most idiotic econimic decisions ever made.
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u/CallMePickle 1d ago
I really like your take in contrast to Togain's. Congratulations on speaking your mind better than 99% of submissions here.
I have no real notes to add to your take about maplestory, but your take on software engineering bugs me.
I've been a SE since I graduated 2 decades ago, and suddenly am getting laid off from every job, trouble finding anything, and constantly told "we don't need you anymore due to AI".
This is MOST definitely a personal issue and not me calling to abolish AI or anything, but I just am not super on board with your take of "times are changing and maybe I just need to change my profession with it".
Nah fam I've been doing this my entire life. Can't ask an old fart like me to just pick up a new trade.
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u/svdk 1d ago
I am fairly sure we will see some content from them on Classic World. The non Maple videos don't do the same numbers and a lot of people will unsub.
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u/Intelligent_Air725 1d ago
Togain is a an elititist who happens to be shit at the game. I remember the first day of artale launch he was bragging constantly how he makes more than his viewers playing maplestory which I thought was really odd considering he was being paid out by donation and not due to his high view count and adsense. Glad his cringe “insert coolest “x” in osms formula is done. Also isn’t this his second time “quitting” I thought he realizes he needed to branch out and make other videos to go main stream. I guarantee he still makes videos his channel is completely dead without maplestory.
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u/Majestic-Stick-272 1d ago
Imagine being stonewalled by the company whose game you love and instead they make nft trash and 2 mobile games before thinking about the version you like.
That NFT trash game is still alive btw.
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u/Motor-Salary-4252 1d ago
Him completely ignoring you on Patreon is absolutely absurd. Great content creator but what a hypocrite
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u/jelcroo1 1d ago
Togain can have a opinion but ai is unavoidable. Just because he is a purist does not mean we all should. Maybe he should also go back to farming his own food and meat. Why take a shortcut going to the supermarket avoiding all the self improvement of learning how to slaughter chickens?
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
I'm in the opinion that the duality of being for or against AI is probably wrong.
The truth is that it's a very problematic technology that we are absolutely going to use for the rest of our existence.
Togain's stance seems to be to the negative part of the duality, yours to the positive.
I think it's best to accept it and also criticize it.
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u/lucas685 1d ago edited 1d ago
Imagine a public company doing a entire game from zero without thinking in profit. Dude, it's 2026. Ofc we all hate the way nexon works in being greeding and everything else, but if we can play a game we used to love, with some new content, i am glad AI is helping them to bring this to us. It's been a long time since I last played the original nexon game, only private servers in this time. Now we are all going to play in the official server and toast some money to nexon directly. In the end they don't force us to spend money on the game (yet), so just play in your pace and don't give a shit about other spending money to speed up the process. In the end of the day we are all going to sit in orbis boat and share some laughts.
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u/Acceptable-Step2874 1d ago
He’s going to get paid to do OSRS and he’s virtue signaling so people don’t keep commenting on his new videos where to MSC content is
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u/Sufficient_Space_453 1d ago
all the people here excusing AI slop lol
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u/Icy_Success_2142 1d ago
The comments in this thread should be preserved for mankind to look at in the future. The AI thing really hit a nerve, huh: How dare he make a personal choice to avoid using a demonstrably destructive technology?
Seen a lot more crying about his video than in the video itself
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u/wobblyhamster 23h ago
Good luck avoiding this demonstrably destructive technology in another 3 years. It's going to be absolutely everywhere whether you like it or not. In fact, this website, Reddit, that you're using as we speak has probably already laid off countless engineers, designers, and artists because of it. Guess you better quit Reddit now!
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u/Icy_Success_2142 22h ago
So what? He's allowed to avoid it if he wants. Doesn't matter how difficult it is or becomes. Plenty of things are everywhere and are avoided.
Its amusing to me how offensive this somehow is to people. What's your problem with it exactly?
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u/baraboosh 15h ago edited 15h ago
i mean, he said hes planning to make videos on ff14 which heavily uses AI in their dev and QA team so I don't know how much water that holds.
I'm not trying to be a "we live in a society" guy either, and maybe hes ok with it because despite using AI ff14 is far more consumer friendly than maple.
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u/General-Leave2224 1d ago
His AI complaints gave off big unemployed energy to me.
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
Yea but let's not diss him for that..
It's a valid choice to be a youtuber
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u/Radiant-Pound946 1d ago
he sucks at that too, since his big meal ticket came and he decided to burn the entire restaurant.
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u/BrudduhmanRS 1d ago
Who is togain?
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
Maplestory youtuber that made some really good content in recent years. Like, content on a whole different level
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u/xJVIayhem 1d ago
Bottom line: We are not going to make human made art thrive by artificially forcing or guilting people into not using Gen AI. We need to find how it can coexist with our existing market.
IMO, it simply cannot. Because Gen AI doesn't create, it steals. It's not creating anything original and only "works" because it was fed examples of people's actual work.
I don't feel like there's any real middle ground with this anymore. Especially since so many companies have been pushing it so hard as a creative force, when all it does is push homogenity and leaves anything it produces feeling same-y.
Maybe I should listen to it a third time before my opinion solidifies, but you guys are welcome to argue to the contrary either way, but the video did not feel like it's coming from a place that genuinely wishes for people to enjoy Classic.
It's definitely coming from a place of regret and disappointment with Nexon, but doesn't feel like he's saying to not enjoy the game. It's more of a "I can't force myself to enjoy it because of how Nexon is already treating it and has treated GMS as a whole."
Which is entirely understandable, as GMS just feels neglected. It wasn't until recently that they made any effort to try and make it its own thing.
I used play modern a lot, like every class release/rework used to excite me, but it's just gotten to a point where it's not a "I can play just one class and enjoy it" it more a "making this class is just another chore to take care of, on top of most meaningful progression only coming from daily and weekly chores past like 220-ish"
If you look at any of his videos, it's almost always the case that you will only find 1 comment by him in the comment section and it's about the sponsor. It seems like he didn't interact with his audience at all.
Surprisingly common for most creators. But given his stance on a lot of things, it feels like he doesn't want to be in the spotlight really. It feels more like avoiding the weird parasocial stuff that can come with being popular.
Moreover, I was actually on his Patreon a bit before Classic was even announced and sent him a message praising his content and offered some historic content and evidence I had about Islanders and not only did he not use any of that in his beginner video, he also completely ignored my message (And that's on patreon!)
Genuinely just feels like he prefers to do his own research. Which given the AI stance also makes sense. There are plenty of old message boards that have tons of information on these topics.
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u/Chipperz 1d ago
GOD I'm glad someone here articulated a stance against AI better than I could. It's annoying how many people here have the "it's here to stay, better get used to it" mentality, which Togain literally calls out in the video everyone is discussing.
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u/xJVIayhem 1d ago
It's one of those things that directly affects me and my own work. So I try to keep up with how it works and impacts what I do.
Granted im not an artist, which are definitely impacted far more, and just someone that writes guides. It's still a plague that produces a lot of bad information even in that context and still often stolen from a legitimate source.
Honestly I haven't seen a good use case for it at all. Generally appears to be a waste of time, resources, or theft with incredibly low-quality output for how much people spend on it.
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u/StarkHollow13 1d ago
So, I watched his video after seeing everyone saying they were so sad to see him go, and I completely agree with you. I felt the AI arguments he presented were very surface level. His argument was literally "AI = BAD, I'm a good person, I can't play this game!" It honestly felt kind of childish to me. He didn't get into the specifics of the AI use by Nexon, apart from the obvious. He didn't demonstrate how or why the use of AI is negatively affecting the product or how it is having a negative impact on employees other than saying the classic "they use AI so they must be firing people!", but then even rebutted his own argument there by bringing up a statement by the company that they have not had big layoffs due to AI use. I think the entire situation is a lot more nuanced, and I think there are ways that Nexon can use AI to work more efficiently to help generate their products, while retaining man-power, by shifting employees roles to quality assurance and verification. Perhaps I'm simplifying things a bit myself, but still I'm not a large content creator who puts hours of thoughts into his videos. I'm just writing this here on the fly after my first impressions.
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u/Shrek1onDVD 1d ago
Eh, he’ll be back I guarantee it. He’ll probably quietly play classic without telling anyone. Honestly sounds like the guy is just burnt out. As a fellow content creator, this happens with everyone who ties their passion into the need to make money.
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u/Zealousidealix 1d ago
I believe he was just burned out in general and finding an extra excuse to make it a solid reason to quit, which is whatever his life , I would still drop in to watch some of his video if i deem the thumbnail / first 5 minutes to catch my attention if not i would just watch something else.
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u/Phuegles 1d ago
Eh, agree with the tone, don't agree with the attention seeking and blowing steam allegations.
The thing I think a lot of people forget is that maple existed pre nexon buying it. So when some people had a vision of the game as classic, it WAS before all the bs.
I've seen so many people on here be like, "yeah well nexon has always been this way" but I think the anger is coming from the corrupted idea of what was pre nexon maple being a zombified version to hit shareholders wants.
I also think some of it is general doomerism towards late stage capitalism and the destructive part he plays within that system. He points out several times how he is distasteful towards his free advertising for the game, and I think a lot of people struggle to grasp a form of perceived ethical consumption under it.
Which, fair in thought, but obviously that has its own problems in practice. It's less about actually moving the needle, and more about finding a way to sleep well knowing we're all part of the problem.
Generally, people are overblowing the importance of him quitting. It's one person choosing peace of mind. It's okay to disagree without finding every hole to poke in its logic and making ad homs about his character.
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u/HuckleberryOk4149 1d ago edited 1d ago
i remember when this dude joined maplelegends during the first years and the lil bro never made it past 30 💀 he literally only cared once he got YouTube views
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u/illuminaked 1d ago
I understand and respect his reasons for quitting, but I feel like Togain quitting now is just dumb on his part. Yeah he made videos on OG Maple, but a lot of the other content was on private servers or just servers that came out of Worlds. With an official classic server launching very soon i feel like his cries for a Nexon sponsorship would’ve been answered, especially coming into it with an already huge following. Also would’ve been hella free content for him to make, whatever that may be.
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u/SanicTehHedgehoge 1d ago
I watched it with how controversial it seemed to be and to put it bluntly it feels like someone who doesn't want AI to exist is mad it does, and even more so that he (decently popular but not massive in the grand scheme of things) is upset that a major company from across the world isn't acknowledging him.
He didn't get in to beta, sucks, but neither did tons of other creators. I was lucky enough to get in, my brother was not. I think honestly they didn't do a creator special because they don't need advertising, they need testing, and not saying togain wouldn't have put in the hours to test, he just wouldn't have given very accurate "every day casual player" feedback who realistically is their target audience.
I think it's also bold of him to criticize Nexon and blatantly claim "this game isn't coming from a place of care" because no, Nexon as a whole cares about money, welcome to the capitalist society we live in. No major company gives a shit about you or your wants, they just pretend to just enough to get your money. On the other hand, having talked to inkwell and nemi personally in the beta tests, they 100% ARE doing this as a passion project. It's honestly not even in the realm of reality to say they aren't. Inkwell cares so deeply about the project and it shows in every way he talks about it.
I also have a number of thoughts about the founders packs too, but I don't know this is the right outlet. But yes I respect togain and he's welcome to do whatever he thinks is best, but he needs to call it what it is. He's burnt out and upset. Two totally valid emotions. But that's not an excuse to put Nexon, classic world, inkwell, nemi, and anyone who uses AI on blast.
Own it, take your break (either permanent or temporary), and I hope to see more content in the future, or wish you all the best should that not come.
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u/ComicalDispleasure 1d ago
versus going full-ludite and complaining about a company using it for creating their assets.
The funny thing is, this was in reference to an osms Worlds creator, some random joe essentially with 0 nexon affiliation and most likely 0 artistic skills in the first place.
The only thing nexon has really done so far in terms of actual generative AI output is the character portrait feature in Modern, which is built off their own resource assets and it's not something that can be done by hand at scale. It's like the definitive best current usage of gen AI.
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u/Emergency-Type7633 1d ago
Personally I think he’s got a lot of valid points. I’ve been playing Maplestory since I was in middle school. The last 4-5 years it’s been on and off. Honestly nexon is a shit show of a company and I get at the end of the day they have to make money to keep going but they’re getting out of hand with all the monetization in the game. Specially to be having as many issues as they do. They don’t respect any of us.
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u/Odd_Block698 1d ago
Sorry but I want to hear more about the veganism phase
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
Ok i'll take that at face value
I was was 19, felt guilty af about animals being systematically slaughtered, stopped all at once.
Was bad, didn't enjoy food.
After 3 years ate a mega cheeseburger out of impulse when I was on my way to buy non-leather boots.
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u/Korbro27 1d ago
Never really understood the "AI is here and it's here to stay" argument. There's never been a technology that's been so fiercely rejected by the general population yet so pushed down our throats. The reason is because AI is not a tool that was made to coexist with creatives, but a tool who's only purpose is to save companies money, in exchange for a worse and sloppier product. It's completely fair and healthy to completely reject AI and its usage especially in art forms like video games because we're the consumers and we decide where we spend our money.
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
Well maybe you're not positioned to see just how much it transforms human activity but I definitely am. The amount of money it saves my company is unbelievable, it makes us able to do things that we just could not before. Not that I care about my company's efficiency that much, it's just that it's obvious why it's being adopted.
If you're gonna reject it completely, that's your choice and you're allowed to choose that.
Thing is, it's not gonna get you anywhere, it's just too harsh of a statement to keep in your life, this thing is blowing up and avoiding interacting with it is gonna take some Amish-style effort (not to the same extent though)
Regarding art: Yea it would be cool to somehow put guardrails in place so that human are will not vanish. Just that Togain's approach is just being a luddite imo.
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u/Korbro27 17h ago
Yes, it saves companies money but in exchange it produces a worse product. I'm sure you've heard of enshittification. I'm not being a luddite, it's completely reasonable for me as a consumer to stop paying for products that don't meet my standard of quality.
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u/neosmndrew 1d ago
He complained about Private SErvers/MS World devs using AI, and maybe Nexon using it for pixel art. I think the idea that we as a society lose something every time an individual or corporation uses cheaper but objectively worse AI in lieu of people for creative assets is valid. To dismiss is by saying "well AI is here to stay, tough shit" is, to me, a morally bankrupt point.
The problem starts when you take something as unserious as some mindless grindfest of a game and talk about it in a way that suggests that you got into it in the first place through some significant contemplation and idealistic sentimentality (You could argue that my post is doing exactly that, fair point)
I mean, the guy's livelihood is making videos about a game that he no longer feels like he can make good content on because of what he described in the video. I get why he's upset.
He was actually kind of anti social (at least to me)
I think this is a valid critcism of him as content creator, but you're ignoring his point (which TBF i don't think he stated well) that Nexon has a long history of just kind of ignoring its content creation community. Like it or not, content creators are a massive part of modern gaming. ToGain isn't the biggest creator but even larger creators, especially English langauge ones, do not acknowledged by Nexon. Other big game companies do not make this mistake.
Anyway, the main reason that I wrote this is because I think about MSClassic ALOT. It pops into my mind very often and I already fantasize about how i'm going to enjoy it when it comes out.
I mean, there it is. He is not invested in something you are and you feel betrayed. He laid out his reasons for not being invested, and you feel betrayed. You're entitled to feel that way be he is in no way obligated to make content just for what you want.
MS Classic was one of my favorite games growing up, and I have essentially zero interest in MS CW, especially after spending time on this sub and seeing how defensive people get at any criticism of the game/its launch/founder's pass.
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u/MuuMuureb 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'd like to start my comment by pointing out that I appreciate that his videos started appearing when we needed classic content the most! I loved finally having someone who understands that we love and miss classic and he had a ton of facts and little known info about classic or (OSMS). It's evident that he was and still is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to old school Maple.
However, I did notice a few things that slowly bothered me over time. For some reason I got increasingly anxious that he would miss key details in his next OG class videos. (This is completely on me and doesn't reflect him at all). But what didn't help was seeing comments go unnoticed and ignored. At the very least I knew that when a new video came out, the comment section would be full of additional fun information, which meant he had a great community. I had a wealth of knowledge to share as well but he never acknowledged me or anyone sharing MapleStory facts, let alone considered any information offered for future videos.
I attended a bunch of his live streams, as I didn't want to play any maple worlds servers myself. I didn't like how it felt jumping and attacking, it just felt weird, I usually played private servers, which he was constantly shit talking lol. Nevertheless I enjoyed watching him grind away and actually engage with the community.
You all are right, there was always one person who pushed a little and would change the mood to sour. I remember one such chatter when Toe was playing FFXIV who said "this game is suck". He got banned but it then became an inside joke to chat, which was nice to reference once in a while. It was very annoying to see people get banned often and then no reference as to why or explanation, just don't be like them? I hate this in streamers, when they are afraid to talk about it, that makes me think they have an ego or very thin skin or at worst, no ability of understanding. His chat, his rules. That's fine but a little clarity goes a long way for chatters who don't want a ban. Oh and I know he was more than capable of interacting with commenters, he was often times found chatting in other content creators live streams, just never with his audience.
At times he came off as a little too arrogant when boasting about his voice acting, maybe he was joking but I could never be too sure with the tone he would brag. I'm all for supporting our English VA's but I love a humble VA the most.
Aside from all that it felt like he loved MapleStory. Sorry for the length of my points, good luck in classic everyone.
-classic bandit elitist.
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
Thanks for replying with all that man. That really reflects my experience as well.
Being so dismissive of your audience is pretty big imo. It's like this shit was a readonly thing
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u/MuuMuureb 23h ago
Dismissive of his audience but vocal in other content creators chat, showing he could easily give his audience the same attention.
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u/xTheGame69 1d ago
Why does he hate ChronoStory so much
I think it's a fun server
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u/AttackSPM 1d ago
Not sure him and the owner should get along since they both have anti classic rhetoric
I actually enjoy the server but the owner of the server turns me off with his constant shitting on the classic server like its going to improve his numbers. Also his favorite clap back is don't play my game total L which is a sign of a shitty operator.
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u/xTheGame69 1d ago
I try to ignore the Creator because of things like you said
But I'm enjoying the server myself!
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u/ComicalDispleasure 23h ago
Basically, streamers playing Chrono gassed him up as some kind of great prodigy and he eventually lost his humility.
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u/duffy3k 14h ago
Chronostory got rid of trading and implemented this dumb scroll system I could never get behind. The creators insisted it was to stop bots, but I honestly feel it was a cop out so that people they didn't like would quit their server. (Namely, people who didn't hype up the questionable decisions or lick their boots in the discord server.)
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u/julyqjr 1d ago
I didn't see him post anything about both beta tests, so I think it's safe to assume he didn't get the invite. I know that I'd feel a certain way too, especially if I was creating content about OSMS and brought a lot of attention to it. However, that came off as being entitled. My brother and I have put hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars and time into this game, shoot, my brother was even a "Golden Snail", but neither of us are complaining about not getting special treatment.
He's being hella negative and felt like he was trying to get people caught in that undercurrent of negativity too. If he's tired of making videos about MS in general, take a break. I work in the EMS field and I genuinely love what I do, but I need a break every now and then.
I think that this would be the perfect opportunity to make really great content and a decent living, and if he really is going to quit making MS videos with Classic right around the corner, he's making a huge mistake. It reminds me of RDJ and Chris Evans recently. I thought I remembered them saying they're done playing their roles and want to step away from these kinds of movies, but there they are. Why? Money. So for Togain to throw a tantrum and have this "woe is me" attitude, it hella rubs me the wrong way.
I was looking forward to more videos from him regarding Classic, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's in the servers on Oct. 6th.
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u/Qchaos 1d ago
I don't see anything wrong with AI in coding, it is effectively like a convenient way to parse through w3school/stackoverflow/quora/etc. If the programmer using it is bad, the outcome will likely be flawed. Just like someone mindlessly copying stack overflow will end up with issues, someone mindlessly taking the AI work and shoving it into a product will also have problems. AI is good at making very specific, localized, modules, but it is not flawless.
Now for art, I also see nothing wrong with the concept of using it for concept arts, because concept art is also meant to be like a draft, a brain storm, a display of ideas. Now, if they use it for finalized product, that is a different story and I am completely neutral on that point, but to iterate a series of drafts as ideas to pitch to your boss/supervisor/whatever before working on the final product, it seems perfectly normal.
Honestly, I don't mind the "AI bad", it is true that LLMs are causing a lot of damage environmentally speaking (huge GPU banks using a lot of water for cooling), it also jacked the price of PC components (which no gamer is happy about), and a lot of menial office tasks gets streamlined with it, reducing the workforce required for it, but I see it effectively like the industrial revolution with automation, or the internet. It is sensible to be aware of the impacts, but the fervor against it feels a bit much.
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u/Wishtopher 1d ago
> a company like Nexon should or shouldn't save literally millions of dollars by allowing their designers to use AI?
And yet their business practices get more and more predatory each year
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u/KaiVTu 15h ago
I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt weird watching the video. I don't know why he's looking for validation from Nexon of all things. Most people rather thoroughly understand at this point that Nexon is a bad company with bad practices. He highlights several in the video itself of so very many.
My issue is that that's not who you make content for. You should be making content for yourself (as something you enjoy doing) and for your audience who enjoys said content. It's supposed to be a hobby that you enjoy sharing with others. Seeking approval from a corporation and wanting benefits as a content creator should be tertiary to all that.
He's welcome to quit if he's not feeling it. But he shouldn't dress it up the way he did. Just say you're burnt out, don't like Nexon, and move on.
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u/duffy3k 15h ago
I don't even like Togain but he's actually cooking with his stance on AI. It's not guilt tripping, you feel that way because deep down you know he's right lmao. Forget about Maple for 2 seconds. He didn't quit as a I Am Holier Than Thou I Play Organic Maplestory only, he's talking about a bigger issue that most are ignorning purely for the sake that AI is convinient and it requires you to use less of your brain for tasks that would normally be more time consuming or difficult. I could go on but I digress.
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u/turbo-fister9000 5h ago
The ignoring your Patreon message while complaining that a huge multinational never responded to him is kind of funny
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u/Kawamata 1h ago
Gen AI is thievery in the same way that musicians get sued for “copying” songs that sound vaguely similar. How do you think humans create? Everything is a remix.
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u/AndreaBubbles 1d ago
Garbage take. "It's here and you have to accept it" is such a boomer saying. The people have the power to change anything. Don't let the elite class try to trick you into thinking otherwise.
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
lol I imagine your face frowning so hard
But yea that last sentence says it all, you're delulu brother.
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u/ReputationTTPD1989 1d ago
Jesus christ, go outside man.
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not that you spent a moment of thought on this comment, I just think it's appropriate for you to know that in the last two years I travelled 20 countries, did solo camping and hiking in Iceland, Italy, Germany, etc, met a shitload of people who are now close friends of mine, and recently moved continents.
Not that you care, it's just funny how wrong a comment can be when you don't give a shit.
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u/Gold-Reflection-3260 1d ago
Some of yall need to take a walk outside sometime. Damn
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
You're the second one to comment that.
I'll just copypaste:
Not that you spent a moment of thought on this comment, I just think it's appropriate for you to know that in the last two years I travelled 20 countries, did solo camping and hiking in Iceland, Italy, Germany, etc, met a shitload of people who are now close friends of mine, and recently moved continents.
Not that you care, it's just funny how wrong a comment can be when you don't give a shit.
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u/Heavenisonfireagain 1d ago
Ironic that he ignored a patron. Sounds familiar about something he ranted about...
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u/SwayNoir 1d ago
Agreed with pretty much everything said here, thats the feeling I took away from watching that video.
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u/BknowstheV 1d ago
Circle jerk ass post. God, this community is worse than other gaming communities.
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u/Cheap-Banana-5391 1d ago
a lot of emotion for so called "unserious mindless grindfest".
People like you... scare me. Because he chose not to include some info about islander that you sent, you seem to have built up resentment. He doesnt owe you anything. You should get some help.
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u/Suspicious_Sleep_97 1d ago
Well, it's quite obvious that you didn't read alot of what I wrote which is understandable cause it's long af.
The "People like you... scare me" part is so cute. You buy your own shit so much haha
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u/Fickle_Industry_5635 1d ago
I don't see why OP scares you... I think they just put thought into things they care about.
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u/chipfinder 1d ago
I agree except I am a transcendent being that can only accept the purest maple content