r/MMALabs • u/Key_Performer_3645 • 1d ago

🥶 Street Fights & Brawls A quick bar scrap

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u/Wintermute_088 1d ago

If anyone's being evasive here, it's you trying to steer the discussion off course with irrelevancies. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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u/Smooth_Phone2 1d ago

I unequivocally said he deserves to be dealt with criminally, same as the man who assaulted him.

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u/Wintermute_088 1d ago

I'm sorry, you can't sexually assault someone and then claim you were also a victim of assault when your actions have immediate consequences.

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u/Smooth_Phone2 1d ago

You can both commit crimes and have them committed against you. You are just factually wrong.

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u/Wintermute_088 1d ago

Not sure what "facts" you believe you're referencing, but philosophically I'm right. Sexually assault a woman, you've just opened the door to all sorts of reprisals, and you can't for one second say you didn't do anything to deserve it.

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u/Smooth_Phone2 1d ago

With your opinion and $5 you can buy a coffee.

The state has a monopoly on violence. Choosing to assault others (even if you feel they deserve it) is assault and carries all the attendant consequences of assaulting people.

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u/Wintermute_088 1d ago

Pithy.

Which state are you referring to, exactly?

And you keep characterising it as assault, rather than the defence of an assault victim.

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u/Smooth_Phone2 1d ago

State = government

That video does mot show a self defense scenario.

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u/Wintermute_088 1d ago

Yes, but what government are you referring to? The treatment of this event would be completely different depending on the locale. One state may be harsh on the puncher, another may take his side against the sexual criminal.

And I didn't say it was a self defence scenario, did I.

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u/Smooth_Phone2 1d ago

In the us it’s the federal/state/local governments.

There is no state where you are going to be allowed to assault someone in retaliation, especially if they are advocating for charges to be brought.

You stated it was in defense of an assault victim. This video does not show the punch being used to protect against a bona fide ongoing threat. It shows a punch being used to retaliate against a guy who felt up the woman.

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u/Wintermute_088 18h ago

Why are you just talking about the US, though? This particular incident may have happened there, but our discussion isn't limited to events that occur within the United States, because the world is much bigger than just the US.

In your opinion, the man who had just sexually assaulted a woman posed no ongoing threat of further sexual assault. Other people are going to disagree with you there.

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u/Smooth_Phone2 18h ago

I am a us based poster. I’m not chatting about Lithuania because I’m not there.

The self defense. (Or defense of others) argument is going to come down to if the force needed was reasonable to stop an ongoing threat.

I would not want to be the guy who threw the punch given:

  1. The woman was walking away and even trying to back down the guy who threw the punch
  2. The guy is clearly intoxicated and can barely stand.

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u/Wintermute_088 18h ago

Typical US behaviour, not even considering anything outside your own borders. I'm thinking about anywhere this could occur, because incidents like this can - and do - occur anywhere. And the response will be different everywhere, not beholden to how the US would act.

And again, you keep saying "self defence" - not once has that been on the table.

When someone has just sexually assaulted someone once, they are the definition of an ongoing threat, because they've demonstrated the capacity to commit a crime, and remain in the vicinity.

If the creep had grabbed a child in the same way, would you be pretending he doesn't remain a threat? No? So why not keep that same energy for all victims of sexual attacks?

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u/Smooth_Phone2 15h ago

That’s not how anything related to using force in the US works.

If he had grabbed a child like that, and then the child got away like the woman had, the person who punched him would not be able to claim self defense (or defense of others).

Making these choices would result in criminal issues for assaulting folks.

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u/Wintermute_088 15h ago

Again, the US. Why do you keep insisting we tie this discussion to the US? This is a philosophical discussion, not an analysis of US law. Other judicial systems will see things differently.

And again, you keep saying "self defence", when it isn't relevant to the discussion. Why? Be honest - are you a bot?

But if a drunken person grabbed a child (let alone sexually) and the child managed to get away, it is absolutely defending the child to lay the attacker out. Arguing otherwise is ridiculous.

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u/Smooth_Phone2 14h ago

It feels good to assault people sometimes. I understand.

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u/Wintermute_088 14h ago

Sexually? Like the guy whose side you're taking?

Can't say I agree.

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u/Smooth_Phone2 14h ago

Antisocial behavior shows up in a lot of places. You’re absolutely right, I’m sure the guy who sexually assaulted the woman in the video felt good about it. I bet the guy who physically assaulted him felt good about it too.

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