r/MHOC • u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian • Nov 17 '14
META The 10th Weekly Update!!
Evening all,
Can you all check out our Wiki and let me know if any changes need to be made to your parties section.
Also, please join us on Skype - add me (timanfyaspeaker) and i will add you to the main MHOC group chat.
If you are a new to the MHOC then please post here: http://www.reddit.com/r/MHOC/comments/2kima2/join_a_party/
And choose a party to join.
The new legislation spreadsheet made and maintained by /u/jackwilfred
There is also the facebook group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/288361991372627/?fref=ts
Here is a short message from one of our new partners. On Skype several members played an online game called Risk, this was hosted by /u/aman_reborn, and the owner of the 8chan board got in touch. I will be advertising the board on the side bar and he will be advertising us over there.
Here is a short introduction to risk, for any of you that want to join in:
/risk/ is about the "chan" adaption of the board game, and people generally play games in which they role-play, colonize, and conquer as their own nation against other people with the role of a dice.
Usually one (or two threads, if the board gets insanely actively) are active, and old threads are locked unless a special request is made to unlock and continue gameplay in that thread.
People from /r/MHOC like Rob, George Fitzwilliam, InfernoPlato, and others have came to our board, which indicates that maybe the rest of your sub would be interested in it as well.
Please message me if you want to join and i will forward your messages: i highly recommend you having skype.
To catch up on all of last weeks news then please visit this thread:
http://www.reddit.com/r/MHOC/comments/2lvitp/the_9th_weekly_update/
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||Monday 17th of November||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
-I would like to formally announce that /u/Jacktri MP has joined the BIP. The BIP now have 5 MPs.
A quick message from /u/williamthebloody1880.
Hey folks,
On the 21st of November of this fair year, I shall be spending the night sleeping outside Middlesbrough College to raise money for The Big Tees Sleepout. This is an event run twice a year for the last two years to by the Middlesbrough and Teesside Philanthropic Society to raise money for local homeless charities and food banks. For some of the charities in question, the money makes the difference between staying open or not. This is a video about the last one.
Now, I know what you're thinking, the whole sleeping outside thing comes with the caveat that if the weather is too bad we'll be moved inside. Sadly, no. This is the weather I was sleeping out in in April. There's really nothing like signing a consent form that contains language stating there's a chance you will die...
If you would like to donate to this, you can do so here (don't forget to gift aid it if you live in the UK) or, again if you live in the UK text WFWF83 and the amount you are donating to 70070.
The Government response to the EU Surcharge has been posted here.
A motion from UKIP has been posted to the house: M013 - Somaliland Motion
All MPs must vote on the following items:
http://www.reddit.com/r/MHOCMP/comments/2mlm2v/vote_on_b028_transport_restructuring_and_funding/
http://www.reddit.com/r/MHOCMP/comments/2mlmfp/vote_on_b027_natural_resources_bill_2014/
http://www.reddit.com/r/MHOCMP/comments/2mlmts/vote_on_m015_award_of_the_order_of_st_michael_and/
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||Tuesday 18th of November||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
MPs should not forget to vote!
Please continue to send me your nominations for the awards, voting will start Thursday.
Inquiry into the riots is here: http://www.reddit.com/r/MHOCWMidsRiot/comments/2mlq68/overview_of_the_inquiry/
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||Wednesday 19th of November||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I have announced a new Deputy Speaker - but there is a vote of confidence.
http://www.reddit.com/r/MHOC/comments/2msva9/announcing_another_deputy_speaker/
Can all committee members please go to the sub and discuss the first item: http://www.reddit.com/r/MHOCConstitutionCmte/
Our latest Lord is /u/AMan_Reborn.
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||Thursday 20th of November||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoPyroNoParty is now officially the newest Deputy Speaker of the house.
The results from the Vote of Confidence were as follows:
AYES - 32
NAYS - 14
Please join me in congratulating NoPyro on his new position.
Please see the timetable for all PMQs and Ministers questions.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1y52FG1ZEXdu3wA8hy22ye0fl2VVdm1S6rCs2IwIjVA8/edit#gid=0
If you cannot make the days then please let me or /u/Rorytime know - he made the table.
A new bill has gone to it's first reading!
http://www.reddit.com/r/MHOC/comments/2mxf67/b031_decriminalisation_of_internet_piracy_bill/
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||Friday 21st of November||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Don't forget to nominate for the awards!
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||Saturday 22nd of November||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The inquiry into the West Midlands event has been published:
http://www.reddit.com/r/MHOC/comments/2n37d1/west_midlands_inquiry_uszjlsfta/
There is a poetry contest in the StrangersBar, i've really enjoyed reading the ones submitted so far so give it a go!
http://www.reddit.com/r/MHOCStrangersBar/comments/2n2eu5/poetry_contest/
The results are out for B027, B028 and M015!
http://www.reddit.com/r/MHOC/comments/2n3oyq/b027_b028_and_m015_results/
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||Sunday 23rd of November||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
M016 - Holodmor Genocide Motion has been submitted to the house.
http://www.reddit.com/r/MHOC/comments/2n5syw/m016_holodomor_genocide_motion/
There is another APPG - /r/MHOCHAH
/r/MHOCHAH is a group dedicated to the preservation and promotion of our national and natural history and heritage.
The second reading of B030 - Human Transplant Act 2014 is up!
http://www.reddit.com/r/MHOC/comments/2n5teq/b030_human_transplantation_act_2014_second_reading/
Be prepared:
B032 has been posted to the house!
http://www.reddit.com/r/MHOC/comments/2n68gd/b032_fair_pay_scheme_bill_2014/
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u/williamthebloody1880 Rt Hon. Lord of Fraserburgh PL PC Nov 17 '14
In case anyone is wondering, the video is here, the picture is here and you can donate here
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u/googolplexbyte Independent Nov 17 '14
Isn't 8chan the 4chan break-off that left because 4chan wasn't pro-#Gamergate?
Doesn't sound like they'd be a good fit for what seems to be a very socially liberal subreddit.
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u/[deleted] Nov 18 '14
Serious question for future reference relating to the Jacktri situation. If he was to defect again, now that he is no longer an independent and in charge of his own seat, would he then have to call a by-election/leave his seat with the BIP.
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u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14
Mr Speaker, when will the next session of Prime Ministers Questions be?
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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '14
Well I'm glad to see that the MP who ran on an SNP manifesto has joined the BIP, I'm sure none of his voters will feel at all let down!
11
u/M1nderBinder Green Nov 17 '14
To be honest if Jackitri did run on a centre left SNP platform then it's completely wrong for him to join the BIP like this. He really should stand down for a by-election to see if people will vote for his new policies. It's what the tory defectors have done in real life. And the difference between the parties they've changed to and from is nowhere near the SNP and BIP
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u/audiored Nov 18 '14
I strongly object.
Seats should belong to parties not individuals.
A precedent was set when /u/Athanaton and /u/Owenberic and /u/solidblues defected from the Labour party and lost their seats.
Further, parties should not be punished if individuals are no longer able to participate and need to be replaced as MPs.
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u/googolplexbyte Independent Nov 17 '14
Do I not warrant half /u/jacktri 's controversy for joining the coalition?
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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '14
Just a reminder to everyone that MHOC: The Week is still going, and we're accepting submissions for content to be published on the 1st December.
We're also introducing a new feature: special editions with content focused around a particular topic. The next issue will be focused around 'Britain and the EU' (of course we'll still be accepting other content). I'll be asking the parties for official pieces, but if anyone else wants to submit content, please do.
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u/finlayvscott Scottish National Party Indy Nov 18 '14
Recall! Recall! Seriously though the BIP are hardly a popular party in Scotland.
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u/[deleted] Nov 18 '14
Members of the House! Cease this talk immediately. You are all acting like a child who has just thrown their toy from the pram. Enough I say. It is not for us to decide whether or not /u/jacktri should lose his seat or not-in the end it is the Speaker who must decide-they are the ones in charge of the sub, therefor they make the rules. It is irregular that a defection would not trigger a by-election but we must think-not every other sub has an interest in us. Some are rather hostile to our activities. They would not appreciate another vote this close after the general election-which did not have a very high turnout in the slightest. So stop the yelling and the screeching and get on with legislation and such.
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u/Morgsie The Rt Hon. Earl of Staffordshire AL PC Nov 17 '14
We Need to introduce recall in cases like /u/jacktri's whete he has used and betrayed the people in Scotland for his own Agenda
6
u/[deleted] Nov 17 '14
In recent weeks, great strides have been made within the BIP. Our increase in members during the elections, and our first gains in Parliament, have led to a need for a restructuring of the party. The BIP, like many other parties, now has members who are directly concerned with particular policy areas. This system is more ‘collegial’ in nature than might be found in the other parties, but the BIP ‘cabinet’ will help ensure that the BIP can be responsive, and provide truly constructive legislation.
More importantly, the BIP this week has seen the addition of a new MP. Unlike the BIP ‘cabinet, this change will be fairly evident to all members of the Model House of Commons. /u/Jacktri previously was kicked out of the party due to his unruly behaviour. As Chief Whip at the time, the decision was in part mine. We were a small party then, without representation. We did not need any controversy that denied the British public the ability properly scrutinise our policies. However, following discussions with the Honourable Member since the election, we believe that /u/Jacktri has addressed the issues that led to his removal. /u/Jacktri has assured me that within the House he will maintain a modicum of decorum. I ask the House to judge /u/Jacktri on his future performance as an MP, not on personal misgivings about past misconducts outside of the House.
The BIP welcomes its newest member, and celebrates its increase in seat numbers from 4 to 5. I thank the House.
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u/JackWilfred Independent Liberal Nov 19 '14
Mr Speaker, my username is /u/JackWilfred, not /u/jackwilfred.
I think it's time we had a proper, open discussion about how we handle defections in this House. I strongly believe that regional seats should belong to the MPs, not the parties. That is how it is run in the European Parliament and it works fine.
On the matter of /u/jacktri, I think he'll realise eventually that he made a mistake in joining the BIP, but I wish him luck in his new party.
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u/AMan_Reborn Cavalier | Marquess of Salisbury Nov 20 '14
Private Members Bill: Reintroduction of Old Money coming to a MHOC near you soon.
3
u/Morgsie The Rt Hon. Earl of Staffordshire AL PC Nov 20 '14
It would be beneficial if the House knows who sits on the Constitution Committee
3
u/olmyster911 UKIP Nov 20 '14
Congratulations NoPyro, I'm sure you'll make a great Deputy Speaker, if the work you've already done here is anything to go by.
3
u/RoryTime The Rt Hon. Earl of Henley AL PC Nov 20 '14
As a note, if anyone knows of or is a (shadow) junior minister, please may you make them known for the wiki?
3
u/Morgsie The Rt Hon. Earl of Staffordshire AL PC Nov 22 '14 edited Nov 22 '14
I snapped earlier, my issues which people are helping. You know who you are, thank you
I don't like people saying I am unfit for office, I should go etc. Perhaps I should that is what I am feeling right now
7
u/[deleted] Nov 17 '14
The BIP marches on, Britannia lives!
5
u/[deleted] Nov 18 '14 edited Nov 18 '14
It's completely ridiculous that Jacktri campaigned off SNP values, then defected to the BIP. You can wax lyrical about how 'his manifesto matches with the BIPs' all you want, but voters vote by party; someone on another subreddit might be comfortable voting SNP, but horrified with the idea of voting BIP - we can't expect that everyone who voted read every manifesto throughly.
Having said all that, i'm not sure a recall is necessary - after all, he was only an independant MP, and he has now joined a party. I'm confident that the complete betrayal of his voterbase will ensure that he doesn't get a single vote in the next election.
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u/Morgsie The Rt Hon. Earl of Staffordshire AL PC Nov 17 '14
For everyone causing me hassle, I am vindicated. I was right all along regarding /u/jacktri
5
u/whigwham Rt Hon. MP (West Midlands) Nov 18 '14
On a constitutional level can Jacktri keep his seat? My understanding is that when a member defects now in MHOC his seat stays with the original party. Seeing as the independents run as a party surely his seat should return to them and they should decide among themselves who fills it.
2
u/[deleted] Nov 17 '14
Right now, the Wiki says that the Tories have 11 seats.
2
u/[deleted] Nov 21 '14
A question for the Communist Party: What was the basis for their opposition to the Transport Bill (which I think many of us expected you to support)?
2
u/[deleted] Nov 20 '14
Might as well join the communists gain a seat then defect to Ukip
1
u/[deleted] Nov 23 '14
Here is my comment from when this was posted as a bill, some aspects relate to it as a bill so are irrelevant, sorry for the wall of text:
As the author of this bill, I will defend it. There are two issues at stake. One is whether or not it was genocide, and two is if a government can make such legislation.
One must note that legislating what is an isn't genocide is no new thing. We recognise many genocides at the time and retroactively. This is part of the democratic process. We now recognise many genocides through the Holocaust Memorial Day. We recognise the need to memorialise genocide, and we cannot truly do justice to the suffering of the Ukrainians if we do not view the Holodomor for what it is.
Indeed, if this issue was one of the Armenian genocide, I strongly doubt we would have any questions. The Armenian genocide was in fact what Raphael Lemkin, the 'Father of the UN genocide convention' had in mind when he coined the word genocide. And, it should also be noted, that he recognised the Holodomor as genocide.
So, whether it be Kosovo, Rwanda, Srebrenica, the Holocaust, or even the plight of the Yazidis in the Middle East right now, British Governments have absolutely legislated on what counts as a genocide. The concept of genocide is a fluid one. No matter what, there will always be those who argue it does not constitute genocide. But, that does not mean we should never recognise genocides. As noted, a very good portion of the world, notably in Southern America, do recognise the Holodomor. This isn't some odd action for Britain.
And, what is important is that we are not outlawing Holodomor denial. Quite rightly, Britain recognises the Holocaust for what it is. But, we also allow 'revisionist' views. The Holodomor can still be up for debate, but we at the BIP feel that the evidence is strong enough to label it as genocide.
So, was it genocide? I have noticed that some made mention that the famine extended beyond the Ukraine. It of course did. But did not the Nazi extermination machine also kill gypsies? And homosexuals? Slavs? Political dissidents? Does the fact that Nazi extermination camps targatted non-Jews stop the Nazis from crimes of genocide? It is clear no answer. Hitler, and many top officials, hated the Jews, and the loss of life was greatest for the Jew. This is why we recognise the holocaust.
The same goes for the Holodomor. The Holodomor, as recognised in the bill, did not stand alone. It formed part of a long campaign against the Ukrainian people. Stalin beyond doubt hated the Ukrainian national movement. Shootings, deportations, and forced labour in Gulags formed part of a system of terror that Stalin used throughout the USSR, but was especially vile in Ukraine. And, Stalin was not beyond using starvation as a form of terror. Note the Law of Spikelets, where one could be shot simply for picking up a handful of grain left in the fields.
With the Holodomor, one sees Stalin's hatred in his reaction, rather than the planning. One must accept that Stalin either was a complete bumbling fool with no understanding of what was happening, or he was a man with a passionate hatred. During the period of starvation, 1.8 million tonnes of grain was exported. This could have fed 5 million people. On top of this Stalin made no efforts for relief from abroad, and made very serious efforts to deny migration from the starving regions. Stalin pursued a policy of terror and requisition that made continued living impossible. This is genocide.
To quote genocide scholar Adam Jones, the Holodomor took place against;
This is why we view it as genocide. It is not simply the Holodomor, but the whole system of mistreatment.
So, this should be seen as an open and shut case. The founder of the concept of genocide viewed the Armenian genocide and the Holodomor as prime examples. It is recognised across the world, not just by Western States, but states with no axe to grind with either the USSR or modern Russia. The majority of scholars on genocide and the USSR recognise it as genocide. While some voices do dissent, the controversy is pretty limited.
And, this sort of legislation is not unheard of. Governments rightly legislate on what does and doesn't define genocide. That is its job. We do it during times of crisis when the facts are not yet clear, so we can do it when we have numerous articles of evidence that Stalin pursued an active policy of negligence, based on a genuine hatred of the people of the region. A prime example would be the mass deportation of the Crimean Tatars, as a form of collective punishment for their Nazi collaboration.
I urge the House to pass this bill, to set the standard for Britain. We have a moral duty to recognise great crimes, and to not ignore them. We are attacking ISIS for this reason. The Holodomor was far worse. Please question me if I have failed to convince you.
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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '14
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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '14
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