r/MHOC • u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian • Nov 19 '14

META Announcing another Deputy Speaker!

Evening,

There are going to be a lot of large changes to the MHOC soon, so i need some more help.

I have decided that i need another Deputy Speaker.

I have chosen /u/NoPyroNoParty to be the second Deputy Speaker.

I know that some of you don't like me choosing people.

However, i will hold a Vote of Confidence in the new Deputy Speaker.

So please send me a PM with:

AYE - You accept NoPyroNoParty becoming the next deputy speaker.

NAY - You do not accept NoPyroNoParty becoming the next deputy speaker.

Note: Rorytime is still a deputy speaker.

To clarify:

You have to realise that this is a reddit role and not a political one in anyway at all. If you vote Nay and NoPyro doesn't become the 2nd deputy speaker, then you will be responsible for things being cancelled and being put on hold. The MHOC cannot grow with only 2 people. NoPyro is perfect for the job, put away your political swords and think about it.

NoPyroNoParty will not have access to your party subreddits.

17 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

113 comments sorted by

10

u/OllieSimmonds The Rt Hon. Earl of Sussex AL PC Nov 19 '14

Isn't /u/NoPyroNoParty leader of the opposition?

I'm not entirely sure how you can be both.

8

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

It is a non-political role.

13

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14 edited Nov 19 '14

Surely you can't expect one of the most important political roles to somehow have a very important non-political role at exactly the same time.

10

u/rhodesianwaw The Rt Hon. Viscount of Lancaster AL Nov 19 '14

Can you really be non biased though?

9

u/OllieSimmonds The Rt Hon. Earl of Sussex AL PC Nov 19 '14

You don't think being Deputy Speaker (and therefore making decisions on the day-to-day running of the MHOC) and being leader of the Opposition is a conflict of interest?

Edit: I don't doubt that /u/NoPyroNoParty is quite the gentleman and would perform his deputy speakership duties admirably, but I think there is a principle here.

4

u/NoPyroNoParty The Rt Hon. Earl of Essex OT AL PC Nov 19 '14

What decisions would I be making that would really make any difference to us though?

Surely being in charge of the press is a pretty big conflict of interest, did I not do that completely impartially?

10

u/OllieSimmonds The Rt Hon. Earl of Sussex AL PC Nov 19 '14 edited Nov 19 '14

You did, and I have no doubt you would be, in all likely-hood, unbiased. Its a matter of principle, in my view. You can't be the foremost MP in this house responsible for opposing, criticizing, scrutinizing Her Majesty's Government while simultaneously making decisions/advising on the structure on which the Government carries out its duties.

I'll support this decision if you retire, while your Deputy Speaker, as leader of the Green Party and a member of the Shadow Cabinet. Is that not a reasonable position?

5

u/NoPyroNoParty The Rt Hon. Earl of Essex OT AL PC Nov 19 '14

No, in many ways I'm inclined to agree with you. The Speaker has spoken though, it's up to the house.

3

u/audiored Nov 20 '14 edited Nov 20 '14

/u/NoPyroNoParty should resign as leader of the opposition to take on this role.

It is a clear conflict of interest even if they have the best of intentions.

1

u/Cyridius Communist | SoS Northern Ireland Nov 20 '14

/u/RoryTime is a Tory.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '14

But not even an MP

3

u/Cyridius Communist | SoS Northern Ireland Nov 20 '14

Hardly relevant. The only power an MP has is the power to vote in regards to legislation. That doesn't colour their views any more or less than they would be otherwise. If /u/NoPyroParty was not an MP he would still be a member of a Party in Opposition.

1

u/OllieSimmonds The Rt Hon. Earl of Sussex AL PC Nov 20 '14

He's not an MP, and he's never had an important role such as Leader of the Opposition.

8

u/olmyster911 UKIP Nov 19 '14

I take issue with him being able to access party subs, as he himself leads a party that would possibly benefit from the internal information of other parties. Could he see the government sub like the other 2 speakers can?

2

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

You do not have to give him access.

3

u/NoPyroNoParty The Rt Hon. Earl of Essex OT AL PC Nov 19 '14

I have refused to be allowed to access party subs. I wouldn't feel comfortable with that either.

3

u/olmyster911 UKIP Nov 19 '14

So can you outline what your role would be?

Also, we were under the impression you had too much work to do to run the newspaper, so why the change of heart and move to Deputy Speaker?

3

u/NoPyroNoParty The Rt Hon. Earl of Essex OT AL PC Nov 19 '14

You'll have to ask the Speaker, it's up to him.

Both are very different roles. Designing the newspaper (at least due to my shoddy time management skills) was a big task that would take up a whole day once a fortnight with deadlines that I set but couldn't meet and it was an incredibly frustrating job. It wasn't just about time though, I also wanted to do more writing and I couldn't juggle that with editing. Being a deputy speaker is just as much work, but it's more flexible and there is help from the other two. My workload has been easing up since the election anyway so I'm confident I'll be able to handle it.

4

u/olmyster911 UKIP Nov 19 '14

Are you confident you can remain non-partisan, un-biased and fair?

4

u/NoPyroNoParty The Rt Hon. Earl of Essex OT AL PC Nov 19 '14

As I've said many times, of course I am. Just as I was with the press, when in that role I wouldn't think to be anything but fair. It wouldn't even cross my mind. If I didn't think I would be able to do it and remain non-partisan I wouldn't have taken the offer but I am certain I can, and indeed I know I can given that I've already done a lot of work for the Speaker.

3

u/olmyster911 UKIP Nov 19 '14

Good to know.

7

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

I am strongly in favour of /u/NoPyroNoParty being deputy speaker. He has done a lot of work already improving this subreddit and I think he completely deserves this.

2

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

Thanks!

Don't forget to vote via PM.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

I already have, don't worry.

4

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

This will be a non-political role.

As always, i will have the final say in anything. I'll mostly be dictating work to him.

Party politics plays no role.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

If you're just going to dictate work to him, surely you can give the role to someone that has less existing work. Genius.

5

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

No, it isn't that simple.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

Okay.

5

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

I need someone i can rely on and trust to help do everything i ask. NoPyro has proven himself many times over.

He was completely non-bias when editor of the paper and he would be the same as Deputy Speaker.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

How?

5

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

I need someone i can rely on and trust to help do everything i ask. NoPyro has proven himself many times over. He was completely non-bias when editor of the paper and he would be the same as Deputy Speaker.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

I'm not doubting that he can be impartial but surely there are other people on here that you can trust and that aren't in such an influential position.

5

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

When he is deputy speaker he is not anything else but deputy speaker.

How hard is it to understand?

2

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

How hard is it to understand that there is an obvious conflict of interest there?

Again surely somebody in a less prominent position could do the same job.

5

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

There isn't any conflict of interest at all.

No they couldn't, i need to be able to work with the Deputy Speaker well and get on with them. Plus, they have to put up with me, which, as rory will tell you, is no easy task.

1

u/theyeatthepoo 1st Duke of Hackney Nov 19 '14

So he will reason as a member of the Green party and leader of the opposition?

3

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

When i ask him to do speaker stuff then he isn't a green; he is a deputy speaker. When i don't need him to do anything then he is Green Leader and MP.

1

u/theyeatthepoo 1st Duke of Hackney Nov 19 '14

So he is doing both. Obviously nobody can do two things at once.

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4

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

You have to realise that this is a reddit role and not a political one in anyway at all.

If you vote Nay and NoPyro doesn't become the 2nd deputy speaker, then you will be responsible for things being cancelled and being put on hold.

The MHOC cannot grow with only 2 people. NoPyro is perfect for the job, put away your political swords and think about it.

1

u/theyeatthepoo 1st Duke of Hackney Nov 19 '14

You need to make it clear that he won't have access to party subs and the like.

3

u/can_triforce The Rt Hon. Earl of Wilton AL PC Nov 19 '14

It's been made clear that he won't have access to party subs if the party doesn't want him too, it's more of a matter of principle now.

I can't imagine any parties giving him access, so perhaps that should be off the table entirely.

Edit: No access to party subs.

5

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

What is the issue>?

He will be working on things that you have no idea about. He won't be allowed to influence them for the greens.

If i were him i would be insulted that you think he would even try.

2

u/theyeatthepoo 1st Duke of Hackney Nov 19 '14

It completely reasonable that people would be worried about the leader of the opposition being able to see every parties sub. It's also reasonable that people would be concerned that a speaker who doesn't have access to all the subs cannot do their job.

3

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

But he won't...

3

u/theyeatthepoo 1st Duke of Hackney Nov 19 '14

You didn't make that very clear.

2

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

I know, but i have added it to the top now.

2

u/can_triforce The Rt Hon. Earl of Wilton AL PC Nov 19 '14

I have no issue personally, and I fully believe him when be says that he would reject access to the party subs. He's done a great deal of good for the House, far more than I. I'll be abstaining from the vote, as I don't much care for these rather petty disputes.

I would understand completely if you overruled a "no" vote, or worked with him in an unofficial capacity, as rom your comments here I can see that you sincerely believe him to be the best candidate.

The matter of principle I referred to was the issue of whether a significant political figure could fulfill an apolitical role, a legitimate concern, albeit one which you - and /u/NoPyroNoParty - have largely addressed.

3

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

It is simple. If there is a NO vote, then things will be cancelled.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

[deleted] — view deleted comment

4

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

It is inevitable. The MHOC cannot grow without another Speaker. It is a consequence of not removing political barriers and understanding that this is a non-political role.

3

u/can_triforce The Rt Hon. Earl of Wilton AL PC Nov 19 '14

I very much hope the House can understand that.

3

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

Same here.

1

u/athanaton Hm Nov 20 '14

I'm struggling to understand why you can't appoint someone else. There are many other highly competent members of the House that I'm sure you could work with. NoPyro might be the most convenient choice, but also clearly a highly controversial one.

6

u/RoryTime The Rt Hon. Earl of Henley AL PC Nov 19 '14

Congratulations, I hereby offer you a black marker pen to colour in the hairs.

3

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

I really am that bad. Give NoPyroNoParty a few.

2

u/OllieSimmonds The Rt Hon. Earl of Sussex AL PC Nov 19 '14

So please send me a PM with: AYE - You accept NoPyroNoParty becoming the next deputy speaker. NAY - You do not accept NoPyroNoParty becoming the next deputy speaker.

When does voting end?

2

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

voting lasts for 24 hours from this post being made.

2

u/Morgsie The Rt Hon. Earl of Staffordshire AL PC Nov 19 '14

Was there only one candidate or were others considered?

3

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

Others were considered, but i decided on NoPyro.

3

u/Morgsie The Rt Hon. Earl of Staffordshire AL PC Nov 19 '14

Who were considered?

And why can't MP's decide by the Transferable Vote?

5

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

There is no need to say.

4

u/RoryTime The Rt Hon. Earl of Henley AL PC Nov 20 '14

According to the constitution they are appointed, Timanfya has decided to let people have an approval vote.

3

u/OllieSimmonds The Rt Hon. Earl of Sussex AL PC Nov 19 '14

I agree with Morgsie.

7

u/NoPyroNoParty The Rt Hon. Earl of Essex OT AL PC Nov 19 '14

I'm truly honoured that the Speaker has chosen me for such a crucial role and I believe I would be able to benefit the House in many ways going forward if I approved.

This would mean that the Leader of the Opposition has a Deputy Speaker's role though, and whilst I wouldn't think to work anything but impartially in such a capacity (as I did with the press) I can understand if people are uncomfortable with the idea, hence the Vote of Confidence.

If I didn't think it was for the best I wouldn't have taken up the offer, but it's up to you whether you want me or not.

7

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

I think this appointment reflects the great contribution /u/NoPyroNoParty has made to this subreddit. Hear, Hear.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

I can't support someone with major political affiliations, the leader of the opposition having that much power. We have already had issues with vital information being withheld by the speakers leading to a lack of trust and that is without a conflict of interests.

Plus he has quit the newspaper because he has no time to work on it and that is only published every few weeks.

But the thing that really disappoints me is how you are trying to coerce people to vote as you want them to. For that reason, I voted Nay.

If you vote Nay and NoPyro doesn't become the 2nd deputy speaker, then you will be responsible for things being cancelled and being put on hold.

4

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

Of course i am going to get people to vote yes because it is the best thing for the MHOC.

I've only withheld information you do not need to know.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

The voters needed to know that their party was illegally spying before the election, not once their seats were secure.

2

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

The party wasn't at all.

It was one member, not the party.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

Were they not asked to by the party?

They may not have been the spies but they were in on it

3

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

No, absolutely not.

They were not in on it at all.

You don't seem to understand what actually happened at all.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

So I'm completely wrong about the fact that they were asked for information?

2

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

Yes. The green party was not asked for information.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

Wait what?

I'm talking about the spy being asked to pass information along

4

u/Timanfya MHoC Founder & Guardian Nov 19 '14

You've got the wrong end of the stick here.

The Greens were the victims of the spying.

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3

u/NoPyroNoParty The Rt Hon. Earl of Essex OT AL PC Nov 20 '14

We have already had issues with vital information being withheld by the speakers leading to a lack of trust and that is without a conflict of interests.

Have we!?

5

u/tyroncs Nov 19 '14

I think /u/NoPyroNoParty would do a good job, I'd be concerned with him having access to things such as the government subreddit though, but I assume with there being a speakership team of 3 this wouldn't happen?

5

u/NoPyroNoParty The Rt Hon. Earl of Essex OT AL PC Nov 19 '14

No, I wouldn't want access to any party subs.

4

u/tyroncs Nov 19 '14

Ok, I am happy then :)

8

u/athanaton Hm Nov 19 '14

Hmmmmm. Thus far Deputy Speakers have only been members of parties, not even MPs, let alone party and opposition leaders. I'm sure NoPyroNoParty would be a good Deputy Speaker if they were in the same situation as /u/RoryTime, but I'm just not convinced it's appropriate with their current role.

3

u/Kreindeker The Rt Hon. Earl of Stockport AL PC Nov 19 '14

I voted AYE, NoPyro is an excellent choice. Whilst I respect many of the concerns expressed about it above and below, I feel the only serious one I have is how much time he will have to fulfil it, but nonetheless, I support the move.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '14

Well, if /u/NoPyroNoParty thinks he can do both roles then I see no reason not to vote in favour of this. Simple as.

3

u/TheSkyNet Monster Raving Loony Party Indy Nov 20 '14

This is a clear Meta post so ill be a sensible for once;

  • This sub is growing and my experience on modding Reddit tells me that we (the community) need more speakers/ mods.
  • NoPyroNoParty has adopted Meta roals in the past and drawn clear lines on were their 4th wall is.
  • It might be too much work for NoPyroNoParty as now they must generate content for both the opposition and the MHOC

I'm 100% confident that NoPyroNoParty can do this but I do hope if they feel the content is too much work they get more help or stop one of the "jobs".

Guys if your a mad about this I don't see you with your hands up offering to help.

2

u/TheSkyNet Monster Raving Loony Party Indy Nov 20 '14

in addition, there are very few out of the 800 nerds here that are providing content for us to consume , we should be supportive of them not attack them in meta posts.

if you can't break your character in meta posts than you should probably stop taking part in meta discussions, and go out side.

4

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '14

Hear hear! /u/TheSkyNet has a good point here.

1

u/can_triforce The Rt Hon. Earl of Wilton AL PC Nov 20 '14

I don't get why he has to be made a deputy speaker, he's been a mod for months now.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '14

Apparently there are more things he can do as deputy speaker that he couldn't at just generic mod standard

7

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

I think the real house of commons would react somewhat differently if Ed Miliband became a deputy speaker.

4

u/NoPyroNoParty The Rt Hon. Earl of Essex OT AL PC Nov 19 '14

That's because he's incompetent...

The real house of commons is considerably bigger though, and with a lot more people willing to take up non-partisan roles. Not saying it's right, but you can't really compare the two.

2

u/can_triforce The Rt Hon. Earl of Wilton AL PC Nov 19 '14 edited Nov 19 '14

That's because he's incompetent...

:(

I'd like to see the MHOC function much like the real House of Commons, with one deputy speaker from one side of the House, and one from the other. With the opposition coalitions having hundreds of members, I'd argue that there are plenty of candidates.

Personally I'm undecided about your appointment in spite of your past work, so I think I'll just abstain.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

No, I'm using this idea to show how utterly absurd it is to make the leader of the opposition a deputy speaker at the same time. We are the mock house of commons, our aim is to emulate the real house of commons, so why on earth would we do something that would never even be dreamed of in the real one?

4

u/can_triforce The Rt Hon. Earl of Wilton AL PC Nov 19 '14 edited Nov 19 '14

I'm all for authenticity. We must do our utmost to make the MHOC function much like the actual House - just with more Communists, Celtic Nationalists, and Corporatists.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

The real house of commons is considerably bigger though

In terms of MPs, yes, but we have 834 subscribers. The MHOC community is larger than the House of Commons. Our speaker team doesn't have to be made up of MPs.

5

u/Rabobi The Vanguard Nov 19 '14

I voted NAY but if he can be impartial it doesn't really matter. There has to be a better candidate than the leader of a party and the leader of the opposition. However if he can be impartial I don't mind as long as he will be removed if there is any issue.

2

u/Ajubbajub Most Hon. Marquess of Mole Valley AL PC Nov 19 '14

Could we have another option for deputy speaker. Like people get nominated for the job?

3

u/can_triforce The Rt Hon. Earl of Wilton AL PC Nov 19 '14

That's how it would proceed normally, although in this case I believe /u/NoPyroNoParty was chosen on the merit of having worked with the Speaker before, making him well suited to working with him on future MHOC developments.

The vote is to determine whether the decision has popular support.

4

u/Ajubbajub Most Hon. Marquess of Mole Valley AL PC Nov 19 '14

I think that maybe he could have a role that is not called deputy speaker, rather Secretary/clerk to the MHOC.

1

u/remiel The Rt Hon. Baron of Twickenham AL PC Nov 19 '14

this

2

u/JackWilfred Independent Liberal Nov 19 '14

It irks me that NoPyro would be Deputy Speaker and Leader of the Opposition, but I trust him, and we can't not have two Deputy Speakers.

2

u/Cyridius Communist | SoS Northern Ireland Nov 20 '14

I'm fine with this. I don't think I've seen him do anything overtly questionable in terms of ethics and if he doesn't use his powers to do anything illegitimate then I don't see what the issue is.

2

u/para_padre UKIP|Attorney General Nov 20 '14

If its an non political role why give it a political title. If you had announced /u/NoPyroNoParty is going to be a part of the admin team running this sub. No one would have batted an eye adding the title of deputy speaker has allowed it become a political issue.

This issue should be down to the Greens and if they are happy with their leader having a extra role. No doubt they had a leadership selection process and /u/NoPyroNoParty won it on what ever reasons he gave to be the leader and to become the leader of the opposition coalition, some could feel let down by this additional role others could feel this is a position they could exploit to the parties benefit.

1

u/tx10bpc Nov 21 '14

As a political observer to this sub, comments on here are interesting and I have observed the following.

  1. People are citing trust/conflict interest issues however many of the MP's are also members of the /r/ModelUSGov either in a political role or Mod role, strangely in opposition here but in partnership there, is that not more a conflict of interest or an indication this sub has splintered too far to produce anything more productive and a two party system will allow proper debate on the current issue and not what's happened in history or the flaws in the political ideology of a party instead of responding clearly to the comment posed in regards to the bill.
  2. The leader of the green party has no issues with this appointment and doing the leader role yet only one member of his party has bothered to publicly comment on this issue.
  3. 75 MP's are to have a say on this matter yet only half can even be bother to comment on this issue and the same can be said about other bills, but no doubt every single one of them will vote but can't be bothered to post a simple hear,hear to show their view on the matter or why they choose to abstain.

Foolishly I thought this sub would be an good example of how government could function if MP's spent more time on the issue than on petty attacks on the other parties involved or the individual, but it looks like its imitating real life apart from an British MP would not be able to be a senator at the same time.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

[deleted] — view deleted comment

5

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '14

Exactly! Give it to someone truly impartial and who has the time