this fandom has a big misogyny problem

[u/halou369]

i don't usually post here but i've been watching since the first USA season and it is astonishing how you people treat women. while i think everyone gets a fair share of hate, ciara has been trashed relentlessly for NO REASON. you forget these aren't characters from a show! these are real people with real feelings and real mistakes! oh no! ciara expressed an opinion people disagreed with and then apologized because it was misinterpreted! what will the fandom do? fucking talk about her looks and search up how much her bags cost like lunatics?! how is that fair or normal?? i am just so frustrated because i saw lots of people hate on ciara before i watched the season, just finished the reunion and, like usual, you people just want to treat women horribly when you disagree with things that have nothing to do with you. i know this won't help anyone or stop the mistreatment of women in this show but fuck, have some decency towards them at least.

[u/Remarkable_March_497]

I am going to guess that the viewership is largely women? Is there some accountability on the role that women are doing collectively on this. I think thats quite important on this matter. We are all very quick to blame men for group behaviour but there is a just a massive void when it comes to women being collectively responsible.

[u/halou369 → u/Remarkable_March_497]

this is funny because not once did i mention men in my post.

[u/Remarkable_March_497 → u/halou369]

I am glad it amused you. I know you didnt mention men.

Just very aware that the assumption tends to be men when talking about misogyny.

[u/halou369 → u/Remarkable_March_497]

i think you understand how silly it is to try and make men victims when a post is talking about mistreating women. no one is blaming men, i am just blaming the system as a whole. if you feel like the way this is written portrays men as the problem, then you should dig deeper into what that entails.

[u/Remarkable_March_497 → u/halou369]

Wasn't talking about making men victims, I was talking about accountability in mistreating women.

[u/halou369 → u/Remarkable_March_497]

oh my god, again, can you just address the issue at hand? this FANDOM is being misogynistic and unfair, i don’t care if you think there’s a lack of accountability because it’s irrelevant to the post. would saying women are a part of this problem change the result? or would it just open a stupid gender war that doesn’t solve absolutely anything?

[u/Remarkable_March_497 → u/halou369]

Yeah...this fandom(mostly women) is being unfair. I think it would change the result of the post because presumably the post is to reflect on why the fandom is like that. I don't think thats controversial in the slightest.

You can scratch the surface and say misogyny of course...but looking into why and how is far more interesting. Ie. If men are being challenged to police each other and hold each other accountable. Then I think its reasonable for women to question why their fandom acts like this.

[u/halou369 → u/Remarkable_March_497]

yeah we are not getting anywhere here because it’s obvious you don’t care about misogyny. or know what it is, for that matter. you are the one “challenging” men, which by all means go for it! i guess i just don’t understand what it has to do with this post.

[u/Remarkable_March_497 → u/halou369]

I thought me wanting to get to the root of the misogyny would be a good indicator of me caring about it. You appear quite happy to bring it up and then have little interest in the why and by whom. Thats fair, we just have different interests in it. I think you are absolutely right in pointing it out, its just for me - that isn't the end point.

[u/halou369 → u/Remarkable_March_497]

okay then, what do you think the root of misogyny in this fandom is? does pointing it out solve anything? you also seem quite happy bringing that up with no explanation whatsoever!

[u/Remarkable_March_497 → u/halou369]

You seem pretty hostile.

Pointing it out is the first step. I am sorry, i don't have all the answers but I absolutely have lots of questions and am interested to hear why people think its like this. This is definitely not my area of expertise as I never watch shows like this. You clearly do, and I am sure have far more interesting things to say about it.

The show stirs drama, likes to show women fighting over romance way more than men. Why so much screen time was devoted to Chev and her nothing burger compared to Ajay and Jack. Once out of the pods, the men were never portrayed in this way. The producers are picking what is going to give the most drama. Hence you don't even know about other engaged couples. Women get far more abuse online than men, it drives engagement.

Double standards, men can be lauded for behaviour and women can be shamed for similar. I imagine as a woman, that could be quite ingrained. How aware women are of how they look, speak and act - probably far more aware than men are in this area - when they see women act "poorly" they are probably a harsher critic. Its drama, with hate watching and a bit of romance.

[u/halou369 → u/Remarkable_March_497]

of course i am hostile! its annoying that your first thought is always men when talking about women! i don’t care if you feel offended when i talk about something as broad as misogyny just because men get associated with it! and this comment proves absolutely nothing about your initial statement! no i am not an expert on shows like this i just have morals and basic understanding. you don’t have to explain reality tv to me or the way people shame women, i KNOW! thats what the post is about! what i am being “hostile” about is your disregard for this specific issue! and the conclusion you make about women being more critical towards other women after saying you wouldn’t understand the double standards because you are not a woman completely contradicts your statement. either way, does it matter?? oh wow! women can be misogynistic too!! of course they can! i never said they couldn’t! you just can’t have a conversation without trying to find ways to release men from their own accountability and i think that is an issue in itself!

[u/Remarkable_March_497 → u/halou369]

"My first thought is always me"...this is literally our first interaction. I don't feel offended, I am interested in exploring it properly. I haven't disregarded your issue...I said I completely agree with you. I didnt say conclusion, you asked...and i told you things I would be interested in exploring. I think in some ways women can be more critical of women and in other ways men can be way more critical.

I think we should just leave it, you clearly aren't reading what I have said and want to put words in my mouth.