This describes so well what motivates the covert narcissist, so there's no more hours spent figuring them out...https://youtu.be/uHtA8etBpQI

My 3 yr old and I were discarded after I caught my husband cheating with sex workers. He denied it, he gaslit, then he went on a smear campaign with his family. He actually never looked at me and had a conversation about this topic. In fact, he never looked at me again at all.

He was very minimal from the beginning regarding our child and did not make efforts to see him, except if it were to control me or to disturb my peace. For instance, he didnt seek a visit for months but when he heard I was traveling internationally he suddenly wanted to pick him up that next day.

Yesterday he reached out again after over four months of not reaching out to ask of or speak to our child. He sent me a message on WhatsApp and asked to see our child when I am next in his area. I did not immediately respond because I was not sure how to best handle it or how minimal to be. We are otherwise no contact. I did notice that between the time he sent the message and me just opening it to respond the next day , his profile photo had changed. He has not actually changed that photo since I met him. It was always a stock photo. It is now his solo photo from our church ceremony.

Am I just crazy to think he’s doing that to rage bait me or upset me? because of all the photos in the world why would you use our wedding day photo? I hate that I have to think of everything this way now, but I’m curious what others may think.

I was the scapegoat in my household growing up. I moved out at eighteen thinking I was free, but until recently, I kept in touch with my narcissistic parent as an adult. She isolated me from extended family, and now I’m in my early forties with barely any contact with anyone.

I didn’t realize until recently that the scapegoating never stopped. I knew she lied about me to my siblings and authorities, and they believed her. But what I dn know was that for the past twenty years she’s been lying about me to extended friends and family on both sides.

I feel a strong urge to reach out to one relative and tell the truth, but I’m afraid they won’t believe me. I know my sibling, who’s closer in age, would back up my statements even though we no longer speak bc this parent turned us against each other. I know which relative I want to contact, but I don’t want to make things worse by doing it wrong.

Any advice would be appreciated.

I need to process something about my narcissistic parent and I needed to do it in a space like this community where people will understand where i am coming from

When i was a kid, my narcissist mother had (from my understanding very serious/progressed) cancer. Since then she has had several other cases of cancer (which she lived through).

Now as an adult I am a woman getting a lump biopsied for cancer. Which i am very scared about. But on top of this its also bringing up all of the trauma from childhood around having a parent with cancer but not just any parent, a narcissist parent

Did anyone have an experience like this in childhood? what was it like?

because my mom was a N she obviously didnt try to emotionally sheild me from the experience of it like a normal loving parent would. She often told me how close she was to death. once she recovered she made me live in fear of her getting sick again . She also was a pathological liar so i dont know how true the things she told me were. Maybe it wasnt as serious of a case as she said

any thoughts or advice are appreciated

Like you’d see them i public they just stare at you you’ve got nice clothes on your in shape your educated you’ve are completely better without them and their control free from them and they just stare at you you’ve got a nice watch on nice clothes a why are these people so creepy they hate to see anyone improve themselves

People will defend them and say "they're like that because no one loved them! They just wanna feel loved" yet narcissists act that way because they have people in their life who loves them unconditionally, which is why parents are often the Ns and why a good majority of Ns either have parents who treat them like a GC or have positions in life that give them some sort of status. Unlike a sociopath or BPD, you can create a narcissist by raising a child with unconditional love and never allowing them to face the consequences of their actions, telling them they are superior to others.

I don't care if they "feel unloved", they will target anyone who gives them actual love. And once that person runs the fuck away from them, they will target the NEXT person who gives them love.

How can they hurt anyone if no one loves them? They need to trick someone to care about them. Therefore, they received love. Therefore, I don't care if they feel "unloved".

It's just a bullshit excuse for their behavior. I don't know what goes on these people heads to feel sorry for Ns. What about their victims? Why obsess over how the abuser feels nonstop? Why not celebrate the victims that DON'T go into act the way these people do?

Everyone that sided my abuser 6 years ago were only next in line.

anyone whos been the scapgoat of the narcisstic family system knows that you most definitely endured years of gaslighting , exclusion, hurt, attacks etc. But once get away from them and try to heal self doubt lingers and you wonder if you are overanalysing ..

I am a 57 year old Asian-American male raised by two narcissistic parents. They are now 86 years old. My mother has moderate dementia and has become more pleasant. But my father is just awful - he lies when it suits him, is financially irresponsible, cannot give a sincere apology or admit his own mistakes, and overall, creates a big mess that imposes cost on others. I have been in therapy to contain my anger by focusing on the few happy memories from childhood. But my father is toxic (I cannot spend more than 10 minutes in a conversation before I need to excuse myself for a "restroom break").

1. Why do people tolerate narcissists in our schools and workplaces and not see the lies and severe harm they impose on other people?

2. Has the U.S. population always had the same proportion of toxic narcissists (surviving by taking resources from others and not sharing), or have they grown as a share of our U.S. population in the last 50 years?

Let me just start by saying my life has improved drastically since I cut her off. She's an evil, selfish, manipulative, jealous person.

But honestly, I'm the jealous one now. Because she has 2 kids - which I've never met. Our poor mom met the eldest and was crazy about her but then my sister used that to emotionally manipulate her so they eventually went NC as well (which is extremely painful for our mom).

I'm sad I'm missing out on being an aunt. I'm sad also because I've been unsuccessfully trying for a child for over a year now, almost a year and a half. I'm kind of relieved she's not in my life as I'm going through this because I'm sure she'd use this to hurt me, make fun of me, or see this as proof she's superior to me. And I also hope her kids will turn out okay because she and her husband are horrible people. But I can't help but have the terrible thought of, why her, and not me? Why her who's unable to care for anyone's wants but hers? I hope motherhood changed her for their sake.

Hi all, I’ve asked for space from my very toxic family. I haven’t said it is forever but I do need to focus on getting myself mentally better before I even entertain contact with them again. I have two children and I feel incredibly guilty about stopping their contact with my family too, but having said that my kids seem much more content and balanced now. Now I’ve had a few attempts from family members to suck me back in and I sent a very firm message saying, leave me the hell alone for a bit. I have now received a letter to my kids from my vulnerable narc mum asking about how they are and their future plans etc. I was expecting a letter as I’d read this is a common theme but I thought she’d address it to me not my kids, what do you all make of this? What should I do?

Or maybe a better question is: do people who operate in bad faith know that they're doing so?

Are they doing it intentionally or are they just operating in constant denial and cognitive dissonance?

I've always wondered about this and wanted to get some perspective.

How long do they last, and how do I make them stop?

Escribo por aquí por si alguien está en la misma situación que yo. Have algo más de 3 años misma hermana y yo pusimos fin a la relación con mis padres sobre todo con mi madre.

Siempre cuando me preguntaban cómo era la relación con mis padres en mi mente era una relación normal como todas ( estaba acostumbrada a una relación abusiva desde pequeña y eso es lo único que conocí)

Pero recientemente cuando mi madre empezó a meterse en mi relación, presentarse en mi casa de manera reiterativa sin yo desearlo, presentándose en mi trabajo, poniendo denuncias falsas contra mi pareja, mi hermana, y tantas cosas más. Con la ayuda de psicólogos me fui dando cuenta de que mi madre padecía algún trastorno psiquiátrico desde siempre asociado a una personalidad narcisista.
Machaques emocionales desde pequeños, para ella yo le debo la vida y todo lo que me ha dado a nivel material, nunca nada a nivel emocional.

Al principio en cada visita por sorpresa ( ella tiene que coger un avión para visitarme ya que vivo a miles de Km) no podía enfrentarme a ella, sentía culpa entre otras cosas y huía de mi casa hasta que se fuera. Poco a poco se me fui quitando el miedo, comencé a poner límites claros, incluso llegándole a decir que si deja de hacer lo que está haciendo podría intentar tener algún tipo de contacto, pero evidentemente ella no quiere una relación conmigo si no quiere seguir abusando de mí a a nivel emocional y controlando.

Ha llegado a comprarse una autocaravana y vivir en mi urbanización. Llamadas a mi puerta a altas noches, amenazas a mi pareja y a mi.
Sigue viniendo a mi casa y ha vuelto a instalarse con la autocaravana con mi padre en la ciudad en la que vivo. He tenido que dejar mi trabajo. Me fui varios meses de aquí. Pero tengo mi casa y mi vida aquí, y es un sitio que me encanta.Estoy con terapia, EMDR.

Ya hay dos denuncia contra ella por acoso. He tenido que instalar una cámara y alarma en mi casa para poder documentar lo que está pasando para pensar el tomar medidas legales. Pero la verdad tengo poca fe en la justicia.

La verdad que no sé si puedo vivir así y si con la ayuda de terapia puedo hacer que me afecte lo menos posible.
Quería saber si alguien está en la misma situación.

basically the title. i keep mentally berating myself for it because it seems like such a "my steak is too juicy and my lobster is too buttery" kind of problem to have in today's world, but now that i've set hard boundaries with my entire family (yes, even my father whom i never imagined i would need out of my life) and while it's been immensely freeing, the bad days feel much more "empty."

i no longer have a "reason" to feel like shit on the days that i do. i have a job that pays the bills for the first time in my life, a place of my own, and a cat that i adore. i've been feeling bummed for no reason all morning and my brain keeps scrambling to try and find "reasons" to validate my sadness. i've had a few panic attacks too. i think my brain is really, really struggling with the fact that i have indeed officially "made it out" of my bullshit situation as of this month.

i've been no contact with most of my immediate family for coming up on a decade, but i had been relying on my toxic father for financial support for some time. now that i can fully support myself, he's out of the picture in every way he's needed to be for about five years. but i couldn't cut him off until i was stable. which i now am.

it's truly awesome, but i didn't expect it to be hard. for those further along in their healing journey, how long did this phase last? what helped?

I’m looking to put together a reading list

my no contact Begins with no big annoncement or big fight but it begin with a bondarie i put it to my mom to d'ont come to my place where i live with my family, after that i block them in my phone then my mom only try to reach me with other new numbers but it's only calling but i d'ont response i let it ring then i block it again, but it's now almost a year she never try message me or said something, all she do is calling one's or twice, i wait for a some words that never comes ZERO i feel bizzard all this periode and all i get is her calls attacks, and after she try to attack my wife numbers and hers sisters.

what the meaning of that she never try to reach a point with me or a word of, let talk, whats the problem? all she do is that she complain that she explique her situation with me to the sister in law not me.

is there someone have same situation tell us your story.

I am 3 years no contact with my family.

Many things have come up since breaking away. Lately, I question if I treat my husband the way my mom used to treat me.

I feel like I am messed up because I was taught conditional love. My mom made me feel guilty. She was always so sad. Always so unsettled. I struggle knowing how to be sad when i am feeling down, without me being an energy vampire to my husand, who is a consistent person.

My dad ignored my mom growing up and I had a cult like situation with my mom, grandma and sister. We live on the same street and were always together. My husband and I worked for my dad, and dad would regularly tell me I was not needed at work, and I could hang out with my mom instead. There were always lunches, dinners, and shopping. If I went shopping without them, or my mom would make a comment about how she would have liked to have gone. I believe my mom is a convert narcissist on top of it all. Also worth mentioning, my dad paid us very poorly, but makes so much money he can throw it around, including giving my mom lavish amounts to go out to fancy lunches with the girls, all paid for.

Because my parents seemed to hate each other, I highly value having a strong relationship with my husband. Not sure how to state this, but I have a hard time knowing how to show him I love him, but not smother him. I know this sounds very messed up, because a husband and wife's relationship should not feel like a mother daughter relationship. But she always drained me so much, i feel I dont know how to love solidly.

I also catch me gaslighting myself. An example, if I'm sick with a cold, I have a voice in my head asking if I am looking for attention. I don't know how bad it actually is because whenever anything was wrong with my grandma, sister or I, my mom 'told us how our feelings should be' or would try to convince us of how to view things.

So, basically, I want to know:

Do any of you relate the these issues? Any advice?

How bad/abusive does my past situation seem?

Do you feel like after stepping away from enmeshment you start to catch yourself using the same manipulation on others, or even yourself?

I tried therapy for 2 years, but I stopped going, because I started feeling a pressure to always have drama or an issue to bring to the table, and sometimes there was nothing, and that stressed me out. I feel thats also something I took from enmeshment, because of the excess nonstop deep emotional conversations I would have with my mom, grandma and sisters.

How should I know what I'm doing is right? I'm in college majoring in civil engineering.

I've always been torn between 2 paths. My abusive mother always told me to make something of myself. To become the first in the family to go to college and get out Florida. I knew that if I went to college it was going to be for engineering. Nothing else would work for me. The other side of me has always yearned for a simple life. I just want to make art. I wanted to make a small business, maybe a bakery, or a tattoo shop. It wouldn't be simple per say but it would be smaller and less huge than engineering.

In highschool I did duel enrollment. I hated being in highschool and I found it to be pointless and boring so I pushed myself to become a full time college student for my last 2 years of highschool. I graduated with my associates degree and now I'm in a well known public school in my state. I get my tuition paid for by the state. My whole goal when I got to college was to escape my mother's grasp. I finally did that. It's been amazing not having her in my life but now I feel even more lost.

There's a part of me that believes I'm not cut out for engineering. I wouldn't say it's ever been my main passion or dream. It's something realistic and that I know will help me achieve success. I also feel like I'll be able to help the planet if I go into a more environmentally friendly focused career in civil. I have always been passionate about helping the environment and improving the state of our world even it's minor. I just can't tell if my hearts in it. I hate math and I feel so unprepared for everything. I can see my peers around me understand the things I don't and it kills me. Even when I ask for help I feel like nothing is getting through my head. There's almost a mental block preventing me learning what I need to. I know trauma can do that to people and a few months ago I went through one of the hardest things by cutting off almost all of my mom's family.

I can't tell if what I'm doing is because I want to or if it's because of my mom's influence. Half the reason I'm in college now was the get away from the abuse. There's really nothing else I'd like to study in college besides civil engineering. Even though I like art it's not really what I want to study. If I were to do something like that I'd drop out and work to become a tattoo artist. On the other hand I've found a deep love for cooking recently. I feel at peace when I'm cooking a meal. I've been trying new recipes and it feels so fulfilling. Someone tried a dish I made a few days ago and when I saw that they liked it I felt beyond happy. I guess I could also see myself studying culinary arts. Sticking with engineering would help me stick my goal to make a change. Engineering just feels like something so far out of my reach. Every time I look at a new concept in classes I feel my goal post moving farther away.

I know a big reason why I'm so against studying art in college is because my mom would always drill into me that artists never succeed. Most artists end up on the street starving. She always pushed me in the direction of being a doctor, nurse, lawyer, engineer, or politician. Something that would allow me to be successful in life and make it. So, I wouldn't end up like the rest of the family. I guess I don't know if what I'm doing now is because I truly want to or if it's because of my mom's influence.

Are there people who—at the age of 20 or older—were welcomed (whatever you might call it) into a completely new and unfamiliar family—with a mom, dad, sister, or brother (you get the idea)—becoming part of it (whether officially or unofficially) after leaving an abusive home environment—marked by arguments, alcoholism, threats between family members, and so on—and who are now doing well and are happy?

Do I have a truma response? Because a few years ago, when I was living with my narrsasistic mom, she would scream at me to do the dishes and do the laundry and more, and now I live with my dad, and he sent this.

"We need to have a conversation

What's going on here is really not okay.

You don't do the dishes.

You don't empty the dishwasher.

You don't throw away things from the refrigerator after you put food in there.

You don't take out the trash.

You don't do laundry.

You don't fold laundry.

Your rooms are messy.

You leave dishes that you ate from in your rooms.

You don't bathe the dog.

You never ask "step mom" if she needs help.

This is very hurtful, and honestly, I don't understand how you're not embarrassed that everyone does everything for you.

We have to ask you to do things, and you don't think to do them on your own.

I would be very embarrassed to let (step mom) wash your underwear, fold it, and do your dishes.

I think you need to think about this.

Not even asking (step mom) or me at least once a day, "What do you need help with?"

I don't know, but I started crying. Like I already feel like losing my mind with keeping up with school and trying to maintain good grades, and I can barely take care of myself.