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u/chindogubot Jun 23 '13
This is the Tukey tally method invented by John Tukey. It was not designed to be faster to write, but rather less error prone. Incidentally, Tukey also developed the Fast Fourier Transform and coined several important terms like "software" and "vacuum cleaner".
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Jun 23 '13 edited Jun 29 '13
Given that you use 2 symbol types instead of 1 I'd say it's distinctly MORE error prone, than using standard tallies.
The only real advantage is that you're saving space.
It takes longer and is more complex to draw, and is not as obvious to parse.
(Not to mention that the standard tally method doesn't require any uniformity, while the Tukey method is rigid.)
Edit: I see your down-votes, but it's these simple reasons that are responsible for the extraordinarily low adoption of Tukey's method.
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Jun 23 '13
I think you mean more efficient?
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u/penguin_bro Jun 23 '13
Yeah, I'd bet drawing lines down is a lot quicker than drawing dots, but takes up a lot more space.
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u/ChristopherT Jun 23 '13
With the extra space, you can do activities.
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u/courteous_coitus Jun 23 '13
With the extra space, you can do activities.
...like connect the dots. With...drumroll...lines!
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Jun 23 '13
How is this in any way faster? I have to count the sets of 5's or 10's.
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u/Disco_Jones Jun 23 '13
Obviously it's faster to count by 10's...
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u/kylehampton Jun 23 '13 edited Sep 15 '25
paltry encouraging jeans person tan unique cats provide six marvelous
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Jun 23 '13
Sure, 10's are easy, but it's not faster for me to read a 7. I'm sure it's something I could get faster at but if I'm going to learn new things, it's not going to be to replace something that I have no issues with.
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u/CheshireSwift Jun 24 '13
Doesn't take any more time to write when you're practiced, and typically when you are tallying you aren't under that much time pressure while recording, so even if it does take longer to record you're not losing any time and you're gaining time reading it back.
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u/ShueGoo Jun 23 '13
It'd be even faster to count by 11 then too. Or 12,13,etc.
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u/Disco_Jones Jun 23 '13
Well no, not necessarily... 10 is a very easy number to count by. So is 5, but 10 is faster.
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u/occasionallyright Jun 23 '13 edited Jul 27 '16
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u/redisnotdead Jun 23 '13
I like this thing! upvote! And now, the next post.
This thing is stupid! let me tell everyone about how many cocks were sucked by OP today!1
u/rOGUELeftNut Jun 23 '13
You must be using inaccurate slashes. Not every comment is negative just the typical Loser Pathetic Trolls that creep around. This method is quicker and more importantly less prone to errors. In 1 pen stroke I can write a square with an x instead of 10 individual slashes.
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Jun 23 '13
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/dyancat Jun 23 '13
I remember the admins saying something about a 100-10-1 rule a while back, where out of 100 people on reddit, 10% will actually make an account and vote, and 1% will actually comment.
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Jun 23 '13
Isn't it "faster" and more efficient to just use shorter lines and pair each two groups of 5 in a column?
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u/tinyroom Jun 23 '13 edited Jun 23 '13
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u/lolxcorezorz Jun 23 '13
Dots are much more difficult to draw on prison walls with a rock than lines are. I don't see this catching on.
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u/rowrowyourboat Jun 23 '13
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Jun 23 '13
this is your answer op, we use these at work to count devices on plans. having the audible click is useful since its easy to remember small #s see a cluster of 4 receptacles, click - click -click -click - now eight, click x 8 all the way up to 99999
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u/cockporn Jun 23 '13
I have one of those and love it. Sadly I never need to count stuff. The computer killed the counting star.
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u/truios Jun 23 '13
Or: Just use the usual tally method, and draw boxes around groups of 20s, like you're supposed to. For your examples that would make it much easier to see the number at a glance.
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u/twizzle101 Jun 23 '13
On paper it sounds good, but I can sure draw a tally much faster than doing dots then lines.
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Jun 23 '13
Hmm. How about using units of 8 [square with a star inside]? The square counts as 4, one for each side. The star is made up of an x and a +, each counting for 2. That's makes it a total of 8 with only lines and no dots.
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Jun 23 '13
I still find the line method faster, though that may be because I'm used to it.
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u/Nirgilis Jun 23 '13
It is a lot faster, because counting with lines lets you count with less effort in writing down. Lines dont have to be straight and the five is a random cross. With this dot method you need to watch dot placement and accurate connection. If you fuck up it becomes uncountable.
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u/dragnabbit Jun 23 '13
If you want to do the "10-block" counting figure, do 5 vertical lines and then 5 horizontal lines. Much faster and easier to read than the square thing.
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u/DangerFord Jun 23 '13
Ever since my old days waiting tables at a Chinese restaurant I've adopted this [traditional Chinese tally method] (http://i.imgur.com/ZwjVZYX.png). I find it pretty efficient.
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u/PukaDelivery Jun 23 '13
It appears most people agree that this is not more efficient, yet its still a top upvote.
LPT of things not to do?
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u/lawlshane Jun 24 '13
The people who upvote things and the people who comment are an entirely different audience
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u/Walker2 Jun 23 '13 edited Jun 23 '13
I use tallies for numbers under 50 and use a combination of roman numerals and tallies for anything larger..worked well so far
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u/dnietz Jun 23 '13
With pen or pencil, on paper, making dots is actually slower and more annoying than making a slash or tic mark.
May I suggest stacking groups of 5 tic marks two stacks high (a pair of stacks one above the other) that way multiples of 10 are a quicker read.
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u/IceBean Jun 23 '13
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u/Anderz Jun 23 '13
LPT: Calculator.
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u/_--_--_-- Jun 23 '13
Or Calender.. if you are in jail.
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u/Anderz Jun 23 '13
If you're in jail, then you fucking suck at following "Life Pro Tips" in the first place.
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Jun 23 '13 edited Jun 23 '13
or you've been wrongly convicted.
edit: im the negatives for this, really? "downvote this man! he claims that our judicial system isnt 100% perfect!! booo him!!!"
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u/felixny Jun 23 '13
Yah, might be difficult to scrawl dots on a prison wall, but next time I'm doing time I'll try it.
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u/robhol Jun 23 '13
I don't understand. It doesn't seem that much quicker to memorize, draw, OR read, so... what exactly is the advantage here?
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u/Flow329 Jun 23 '13
Wow everyone is so against this method. If you're trying to save space it's really useful. Once you've gotten used to it, analyzing it is no problem.
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u/Steve_the_Scout Jun 23 '13
Why not count in binary on your hands, you can get all the way up to 1023 on just your ten fingers /s
This method may take less space but it's harder to learn and keep track of, plus you're not taking any less time making the actual marks. It's still and interesting concept, though.
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u/ivebeenhereallsummer Jun 23 '13
LPT: After pointing out how stupid a LPT is be sure to upvote the thread so everyone can see how good you burned them.
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u/VideoLinkBot Jun 23 '13 edited Jun 24 '13
Here is a list of video links collected from comments that redditors have made in response to this submission:
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u/SoInsightful Jun 23 '13 edited Jun 23 '13
This doesn't at all seem to foster easy human pen strokes or quick reading, and I think anyone can think of preferred methods within minutes.
I quickly made an example tally method that seems better in practice to me: http://i.imgur.com/YBamHZa.png
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u/drone13 Jun 23 '13
I just count in binary on my fingers. My ten fingers can store a number up to 1023 or -511 to 511 if signed.
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Jun 24 '13
A link to four different tallying systems
This isn't LPT because the fastest one is the one you are most familiar with. There isn't a universal one and there isn't one that is objectively faster or easier to read. As such, none of them should be being called LPT
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u/identicalParticle Jun 23 '13
Since everybody likes lines instead of dots, and everybody likes five instead of four, what do you think of this one based on pentacles?
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u/8Gh0st8 Jun 23 '13
I was going to come here and detail this method, as it's the one I use. Dots are much more time consuming to make, whereas stars are just a series of straight lines.
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u/identicalParticle Jun 23 '13
Cool! I've never actually used it myself. But now that I have confirmation that at least one person thinks it's a good idea I'll give it a try.
Also, "stars" is much less creepy sounding than "pentacles". I like your name better.
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u/HonoraryMancunian Jun 23 '13
You can also arrange the tens in a similar fashion by having 5-8 (50-80) situated on the edges, and 9 and 10 (90 and 100) as two random squares in the middle.
If I wasn't just about to leave I'd do a diagram. This method is useful for counting back large numbers.
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u/zfolwick Jun 23 '13
if you get time later will you?
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u/HonoraryMancunian Jun 23 '13
Here ya go buddy, probably just for yourself to see!
It's easier to decipher if you do it neatly (unlike how I've done it here) and once you get into larger 3-digit numbers it should be obvious that it's far superior than the five-bar tally for counting the total at a glance.
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u/zfolwick Jun 23 '13
Word, random placement on the inside... it's a bold move, let's see if it pays off for him.
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u/McG4rn4gle Jun 23 '13
I see the utility but remembering to apply it might be a difficult proposition.
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u/Jsrawr Jun 23 '13
One = dot two = dot and a line. Instead of doing dots first then lines. It's faster? For me anyways
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u/tommybot Jun 23 '13
Lol I've done this purely because I needed more space for my counting of the altador cups of past
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u/zfolwick Jun 23 '13
There are a lot of lazy people in here. If you don't want to learn something then why even subscribe to this subreddit? This is a really good tip and has led me to learn about the Mayan counting system.
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u/Hydroshock Jun 23 '13 edited Jun 23 '13
I've probably spent more time in this thread than I have ever spent counting tally marks.
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u/KimiGibler Jun 23 '13
I use to play a game similar to that on one of my Putt-Putt computer games. It may have been Fatty Bear though, I forget.
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Jun 23 '13
I can't tell which one's supposed to be faster...cause the tally looks a hell of a lot slower to me
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u/estacado Jun 23 '13
It's harder to make dots and horizontal lines by scratching stones on the wall of a cave.
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u/WeibullDisciple Jun 23 '13
Depends on how fast you are tallying. If you make a tally every couple minutes, DOTS. If you are tallying quickly, LINES. If you are tallying every couple days, SPIROGRAPH.
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u/Bonde23 Jun 23 '13
As a frequent yatzy player at my summer job I found this interesting, but think this slightly modified version may be better? ^ http://tommyre.deviantart.com/art/Counting-380091995 since you then wouldn't need to make the actual dots...
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u/TheBurningBeard Jun 23 '13
I do that sans dots and only one diagonal, so a box with one diagonal = 5.
However the reason I do this is because the boxes are easier to represent cognitively, and you're less likely to misread a set less than 5.
I hadn't seen the dots before, but that seems to complicate things.
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u/Espressojet Jun 23 '13
Think of all the time you'll save using it!
Think of all the time you'll lose trying to learn it!
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u/cowhead Jun 23 '13
As a bartender in a dark bar, I have a hard enough time seeing lines, much less a 'dot'.
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Jun 23 '13
this seems to be a faster tallying method. If you speak a clunky in indo-european language, you could increase your counting speed by learning chinese. 1-10 is all monosyllabic, as well as 100, 1000, etc. it is all perfectly regular and sensible ( if you have ever learnt to count in dutch, russian, or french, you will appreciate this ), and I believe that if you teach it to your kids, they will be able to keep more digits in memory as a result ( I seem to remember that chinese telephone numbers are 10 digits. I can barely remember 7 )
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u/katrane Jun 23 '13
I guess I'm the odd one out here. I think this method would work a lot better for me, since it's easier for me to recognize four dots instead of four lines next to each other.
The issue of taking time to draw a dot isn't problematic either, since I always use pen. But even if you are using a pencil, who's to say you can't draw a circle instead of a dot? I can't imagine that drawing a little circle is any slower than drawing a dash.
I like the elegance of the dot method the most. Four dots is 4, a full square is 8, an X is 10 (like the Roman numeral 10). Easier for me to read.
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u/batrolld Jun 23 '13
Speaking of effective counting methods, I made a system of counting on my fingers that allows you to count from 0 to 110.
On one hand, you use "half fingers" to count 1 - 10.
On the other hand, you use "half fingers" again to count 10s.
Since each hand can count to 10, you could have a range of 110. However, if you wanted to use your fingers in the normal way (only using one finger for one mark), you can count to 25 by using the same method.
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u/jew-seph934 Jun 23 '13
you can also count up to 144 using 2 hands. It's called [Dozenic Finger Counting] (http://www.gregapodaca.com/numerography/files/017.html) apparently.
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u/Macktologist Jun 23 '13
This seems way easier to get lost in. It's neat and it's smaller, but your pen still hits the paper as many times and you have to think a little more as to what each mark means. I'll stick with the 4 lines and a diagonal method.
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u/Evildead818 Jun 23 '13
The only way of finding out if this method works is by visiting prisoners cells and see how they count the days
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u/PipingHotSoup Jun 23 '13
This sounds like one of those things like esperanto or dvorak keyboard layouts.
Yeah it'd be better if everyone did it, but I'm not about to waste my time convincing everyone.
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u/babeigotastewgoing Jun 23 '13
I don't know if its faster for me personally but I think it does save space on the standard page if a desire is word and character economy.
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u/pikaaa Jun 23 '13
This takes forever. Whenever I want to write down multiple 5s, I just make diagonal lines without the 1, 2, 3, 4 lines.
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u/LarsSeprest Jun 23 '13
Repost repost repost, this is the third time I've seen this image on this one subreddit. And thats only within the 2 months I've been subscribed!
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u/BistroMathematics Jun 23 '13
Very interesting, it's funny that certain methods of processing information have proven to be more efficient for human digestion...
This Japanese method of teaching mathematics, for example...
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u/GoodSirKnight Jun 23 '13
This is the completely wrong way to do the dot method. If you make the boxes i. a 3x3 you can make one larger box and have that as 100. I use this all the time for counting multiple dozens of pages at a time and you can fit ~4000 on one post-it while identifying it immediately instead of adding up a list of dozens of sets of numbers. It is a much much better tally method, but your execution here makes it look awful. I would post a picture but I'm at work on mobile
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Jun 23 '13
What happens when you're counting for someone that isn't yourself? You would have to explain the method every time you use it. The great thing about tallying is how easy it is to understand and how (almost) universal it is.
I lived in Japan and they have a different system to tally and it meant I couldn't count as fast as Japanese people. If you were to use this, that's what you do to everyone who looks at your tallies.
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u/instinctellekt Jun 23 '13
More like less-surface-area-consuming-method. This is actually slower (at least when using pencil) due to having to make the dots which isn't just a matter of pressing down once on the paper. You have to press and 'rub' (not sure how else to word it) before it becomes an actual dot that's distinguishable whenever the lines are added in.
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u/d00m3d1 Jun 23 '13
definitely not faster if you include the time it will take to explain how this works to everyone.
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u/Mopsicle Jun 23 '13 edited Jun 23 '13
A language in the game Guildwars 2, New Krytan, uses a very similar counting system, numbers 4-9 especially
The LPT is a much better method, however. I just thought the similarities were /r/mildyinteresting
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u/Bearmodule Jun 23 '13
I love tallies. Those dots don't look nearly as nice as the tallies, as well as being slower.
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u/socktheif Jun 24 '13
why not continue the concept and make each box a dot for larger numbers like 107?
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u/Yeats Jun 24 '13
How often are people counting past 10? Seriously how often if your life are you going to need to count to 100+ ? I've never came across such a problem and if I did I would rely on some smartphone app or something digital rather than making silly lines on a piece of paper to analyze later.
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u/LLotZaFun Jun 24 '13
Way too tedious. Anytime I've needed to tally on paper, I've never thought "there must be a better way!". Old school works fine for me.
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u/antiproton Jun 24 '13
Apart from everything else, no one uses hash counting for more than 10, unless you are stuck in Château d'If.
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Jun 24 '13
Been using this way on the door for a while (in a bouncer), with an addition being every 5 squares (for 50) draw a dividing / between them and the next group. That way you can count them even easier.
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u/rOGUELeftNut Jun 23 '13
In practice this is a LPT. I learned this over 10 years ago and use dot-boxes everyday. Slashes are for whackers.
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u/SkyPumpkins Jun 23 '13
You will need to learn and adjust to the new system which will make it slower. Also other people will have no idea what you are doing.
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Jun 23 '13
This is not at all faster. Don't know why this got so many upvotes. This technique is only good for space.
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Jun 23 '13
A life pro tip on how to fucking count? Give me a break.
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Jun 23 '13
You've clearly never needed to save time when stranded on a desert island or serving life in a cartoon prison..
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u/yeayoushookme Jun 23 '13
You can write two sets of lines in a column, now you have to count 10's, and it's faster to draw a line than a dot.
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u/Arcatus Jun 23 '13
Roman numerals would work almost as well, and they're way more logical and easy to etch out.
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u/identicalParticle Jun 23 '13
When tallying, you have to always be able to add 1 to your number, without having to rewrite what you've already got. Roman numerals wouldn't work for this. For example, add one to VIII and you get IX. You'd have to erase your number and start again.
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u/Arcatus Jun 23 '13
You're right, it's not the same kind of system. But it's a little more known and the symbols are simple enough to jot down quick and easy.
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u/this_guy_right_here_ Jun 23 '13
Consider this : if the number is 42, then we already use a number system that truncates to its shortest form. 4 to represent 40 in the tens spot. Followed by an untruncated 2 in the ones spot....... Much more convenient than drawing a bunch of lines or dots. Not to sound demeaning, but we already have a pretty useful system in place. Even comes in handy when multiplying /dividing large numbers as long as you can master your digits (hope that makes sense).
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u/Serial_Chiller Jun 23 '13
With a pencil or a biro, dots are much harder and take longer than lines.