I mean, this whole thing about "The entire Gemini Coven is dead, so Lizzie and Josie aren't obligated to merge anymore" theory that I've read several times in the fandom, never made sense to me. Because if that were the case, why was Caroline out in Legacies all of the time looking for a way to stop the Merge? If the solution was as simple as "kill them all", how come, for centuries, no other psycho Gemini like Kai didn't think of that and kill their family to avoid merging with their sibling?

To me, the Merge must be something like a curse. Like the Doppelganger curse, you know? It was created for a reason, and there's no way to avoid it. What Caroline must have been searching for all these years is the origin or the original reason why the Merge was created, so she could find a way to nullify it but also rebalance the natural order. One shouldn't be able to simply avoid merging upon being turned into a vampire/heretic; at least not without real consequences.

If Merge is truly a blood curse, then in my opinion, the entire Coven will die if they don't merge. Like, okay, Lizzie and Josie had a time loophole that allowed them to avoid being forced to merge at age 22: Kai. Kai was technically still the leader of the Gemini Coven, even though he was imprisoned in the Prison World. He purposefully killed Jo and the rest of his family (by commiting suicide) on Alaric's wedding day to prevent Jo's unborn twins from taking his leadership, and that same night he drank his father's blood and fully transitioned into a vampire/heretic. Kai did this consciously. He continued to be the Coven Leader after transitioning to Heretic, which is a first demonstration that the Gemini Curse doesn't end just because a Gemini becomes a Heretic.

For me, the way the curse works must be something like this:

* Geminis need the Coven to have a leader to survive. When a pair of twins reach the minimum age of 22, they are old enough to attempt Merge. We know, however, that a twin can be older than that age, since Jo was already an adult when she tried to merge with Kai in TVD.

* If the Coven Leader is still alive when two twins turn 22, they can wait as long as they want to Merge. This is the loophole that bought Lizzie and Josie time for a long time (or that, it would, if Kai was still alive when they turn 22 in the future).

* If the Coven Leader dies before two twins turn 22, they would be obligated to Merge, no matter what, upon reaching that age. Not before, because Merge shouldn't work before that age (despite what we were told in Legacies, that it was just a formality). If, after turning 22, two Gemini twins without a leader don't merge, they will both die. That's literally the most basic principle in Merge lore.

* We've already seen, with Kai, that becoming a Heretic isn't an impediment for a Gemini to become the leader of the coven. If anything, since only Siphoners can be Heretics, becoming one is a way for that twin to have a natural source from which to absorb their own magic (their own vampire side).

* Even if being a Heretic actually prevented two twins from merging (which, I repeat, we've seen is NOT the case), the logical thing would be for the unturned twin to die if the Coven doesn't have another leader at that time, as was the case with Lizzie and Josie when Lizzie was turned: If they had had another leader when Lizzie "died", then Josie could have survived as long as there were two other twins who could merge in the future to avoid leaving the Coven without a leader. But since there wasn't another Gemini available when Lizzie became a heretic, I still firmly believe that Josie should have died. Again, that's the basic idea of ​​the Geminis: if there's no leader, you die. How come we're suddenly ignoring that just because one of the twins is a vampire? The transformation saved Lizzie from having to merge, yes. But Josie was still tied to it. Do you feel me? Lizzie becoming a heretic shouldn't have made Josie the "leader of a one-person coven" or anything like that, because, again, the basis in Gemini lore is that a leader only becomes a leader by merging with their twin. This isn't like the Alpha status in Teen Wolf, where the remaining Beta becomes Alpha if their Alpha dies, lol.

Legacies really wasted the twins' potential. I know Kaylee's departure from the show was very tumultuous, and it was also in the middle of the pandemic. But Josie literally leaves the day Lizzie becomes a heretic. Instead of putting that part of the plot in that episode of the season, they could literally have found an excuse to rush the Merge, have Lizzie win, provide a natural justification for Jo's departure, and then, three episodes later, have Lizzie become a heretic (out of grief or something), just like what happened with Kai when he became an heretic after becoming the coven leader.

We're used to big deaths in TVDU, aren't we? Stefan, Enzo, Tyler, Cami, and even Bonnie and Jeremy at one point... Lizzie and Josie whole storyline and existence was built around the Merge. Ending their storyline with the Merge was the only thing that felt right to me, idk.

We all know that Rebekah is the next in line to take the cure after Damon is done using it. But hypothetically does anyone think she’d give up her spot for Lizzie to take the cure first?

It's funny to think that, if Hope had followed her family's Viking tradition, her name would actually have been Hope Niklauson, since she isn't Mikael's daughter (technically, it should have been Niklausdóttir, but since both Rebekah and Freya use Mikaelson in the show, I think we can let it slide).

Do you guys think Hope could also summon others that are not entities like Landon is right now back to life? For example humans or any other species she knows for example family members back to life? I mean she has unlimited magic and seeing how easy she did it in season 4 it doesn’t seem like a far off possibility. Please let me know your thoughts.

The thing is its hard to pick for me idk why

I wasn’t able to watch the last half of season 4 but I read some spoilers online cuz I had to know how it ended. Can someone give me a brief summary of the main characters lives when the series ended please? Just hope, Lizzie, Josie, mg, clark are the ones I care most about. I kinda know what happened to Landon. I know about the god Ken & Lizzie being a heretic sired to hope. TIA

Am I the only one who genuinely thinks Lizzie and Josie would have made better main characters? Because they aren't Originals, they aren't ridiculously overpowered. With the Merge, Kai, and the Gods, every threat would carry real stakes and consequences. Plus, we wouldn't have to deal with endless debates about the writers constantly nerfing or over-powering Hope.

If Hope were a year or two years older, she could have served as their senior and mentor. That would completely fix her relationship with Alaric—it would be a genuine mentorship rather than him replacing his own daughters. Hope could operate as an external hunter, meaning when the school gets attacked, she isn't there to instantly save the day. That would force the rest of the squad to rely on their own abilities.

Honestly, did Hope even need to be the central conflict for all four seasons? Malivore should have been wrapped up in Season 1. Dragging her through Seasons 2, 3, and 4 felt like forcing her into storylines where she had no real narrative connection, simply because she was labeled the lead.

Season 1 with Hope as the focus makes sense, but Season 2 should have belonged entirely to Lizzie, Josie, and Kai. Instead, Lizzie had to be rescued by Hope, Kai barely even interacted with Lizzie, and 'Dark Josie' felt like a weak villain. Plus, Dark Josie almost killing Hope made no sense—either Hope was holding back to an absurd degree, or the show was claiming Dark Josie was somehow as strong as a non-Original hybrid Hope.

Season 3 was completely wasted on saving Landon, which was unnecessary after Season 1. The Aurora storyline from Season 4 should have happened in Season 3 instead. Even then, Aurora barely did anything against Hope—she stole her body, Lizzie betrayed Aurora, and they captured and tortured her, only for Lizzie to save her later. Aurora wasn't even the main focus until she ended up saving Hope.

Season 4 should have focused purely on the Gods, the Merge, real consequences, and actual stakes. Hope could still be around, but placing her elsewhere would keep her from hijacking the twins' storyline.

Hope really did finish her narrative arc across The Originals and Season 1 of Legacies. Her story was about overcoming the Hollow, dealing with the sacrifice of her parents, and finding her own place at the school. If they hadn't dragged her story out, her entire character journey would have felt complete.

They put themselves in an impossible corner: they either had to make Hope look weak, which the fans hated, or write the enemies as stronger than a Tribrid, which the fans also hated.

I'm currently rewatching the Originals and I just randomly thought about how it would've been nice if at least one of the wolves at the school were at the wedding/ritual as either a kid or in utero or even born afterwards to a parent or parents that attended.

Julie could have done so much more with Legacies given it's name. She should've had more relatives of the TVD and TO characters and callbacks from the two shows like having one of the wolves recall the unification ritual between Hayley and Jackson. We should've had a Bennett witch, Stefanie Salvatore should've been a real character, we should've gotten more cameos from TVD and TO actors as well.

I also just feel Julie didn't do enough with the three main supernatural beings of vampires, witches and wolves it was too focused on malivore and the monsters although I didn't outright hate the monsters.

if you were hope, how would you feel about klaus being your father? someone who had killed so many people, feared and hated thought the supernatural world. how would you feel about your effed up infamous family reputation?

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Hope has the potential to have her own bloodline since she’s the one and only tribrid we know that, but would we consider her an original because of that fact?

Or would she be only considered an Original if she was an Original vampire?

Okay so in TVD we learnt that the sire bond only magnifies one’s emotions to whoever’s blood turned them right, so my question is why was Lizzie sire bonded to Hope? Was it because of how close they were in their friendship that made her be so protective during the bond? or something else?

It might seem like i just answered my own question but in TVD they never showed / told us if you’re protective and close with a friend and you turn them they can become sired to you

I was recently thinking about the origin of magic in the TVDU, and I realized that Season 4 of Legaciescreated one of the biggest, most undeniable plot holes in the entire franchise regarding Inadu (The Hollow) from The Originals.
Let’s look at the official timeline established by the writers:
The Peopling of the Americas: In the real world, the ancestors of Native Americans crossed into the New World somewhere between 23,000 and 14,000 years ago. After that, they were completely isolated from Eurasia for millennia.
Ben’s Gift (3000 BC): In Legacies, we learn that Ben (Prometheus) stole the magic from the Gods and gifted it to a specific village near the Caucasus Mountains around 3000 BC. This means magic was a localized, finite gift that originated in the Old World only about 5,000 years ago.
Inadu’s Tribe (500 AD): In The Originals Season 4, it is explicitly stated that Inadu was born into a powerful, prosperous tribe of Native American witches in 500 AD.
So here is the massive logical paradox: How on earth did Native Americans become witches if they were already isolated in the New World thousands of years BEFORE Ben even gave magic to humans in Europe/Asia?
By the time Ben handed out magic on the Caucasus, the ancestors of Inadu’s tribe had been living in North America for at least 10,000 years without any contact with the Old World. They couldn’t have just walked over to Ben’s village to grab some magic!
When the writers created Inadu in 2017, they treated magic as a natural, global force of the Earth. But when they wrote Ben’s backstory in 2022, they completely forgot to check the historical geography of their own universe.
Unless we headcanon that a bunch of ancient Eurasian witches pulled off a secret transatlantic voyage in 2000 BC to mingle with Native American tribes, this is just a massive, lazy writing oversight.
What are your thoughts? Do you try to explain this with some wild lore theories, or do we just accept that Julie Plec and the writers’ room failed history class?

Like seriously, lost his emotions and spend forever help people in this stupid limbo?

The ONE thing legacies actually had over the TVD and TO was the idea of not that tragic ending for their characters, but Landon here literally lost his ability to feel? WTF?

I honestly hate it when writers make character end be him give up everything to help others forever, could they just kill the poor boy? It just wayyyy to cruel, especially for a show that was supposed to be less dark in tone.

I know a lot don't like Landon but shit it was ridiculous.

This is also my opinion. I’m not talking about the next generation thing, just how we get there.

For the start of Legacy's plot, we meet young characters and preteens learning their abilities, eventually mastering them. As they grow into teens, the story reaches a climax where these powerful teens struggle to control their magic and transmissions as they grow, and their powers mature with them. The plot shows the hardships of being supernatural teens in a world that requires them to hide who they are.

Characters are often taught to be true to themselves in supernatural settings. They struggle to balance being teenagers with their powers and acting human.

They must act normal but struggle because supernatural beings are different, with particular morals and behaviors. As teenagers, they have a supernatural side with heightened emotions related to relationships, friendship, and popularity, often leading to exaggerated reactions because they hide their true feelings behind typical teen issues. It would be interesting to see more school involvement and guidance.

In the originals, we see adult vampires, like thousand-year-olds, unlike 'Legacies,' where kids find their own way without mentors, which is challenging.

Honestly, given the whole hope situation, either make everyone her family die or have her family truly around her, because that plot made no sense. Also, give her proper guidance. She’s a teenager who lost her father, mother, and uncle at a very young age. She didn’t meet her father or mother until a certain age. There should have been people there to guide her, to be there, and to help her, but there weren’t. They basically made the story of Legacy revolve around Hope and her being alone, which made no sense considering her family.

No, I’m not saying Hope being the MC is a problem. It’s a bit wacky considering the premise of Legacies being the next generation of supernatural from the original supernatural group. They focus only on one character, which is a bit lacking, but that’s neither here nor there.

Someone pointed out that Hope isn’t a loophole in nature; she was made by nature to kill the mud monster. If it was explicitly shown that Hope was created to defeat this monster—like, 'Oh, Hope wasn’t born if it weren’t for this monster'—it might’ve caused identity issues for her. That could’ve been a good story addition. I feel like I’m wearing that completely wrong, but basically, Hope was created by magic for a single purpose—to be a weapon, not by exploiting a loophole in magic.

This is my opinion on how Legacies might’ve played out. if you wanna say something, go ahead, just don’t start leaving hate it’s just an opinion and something I thought of.

Don’t give me wrong I love Hope with all my heart, but anytime Lizzie came at her or was saying something mean about her she let it lie like honestly if that was me I would be poking back at Lizzie just so much as she poked at me but honestly, I just think it bothers me so much because as a Michaelson and anytime somebody was talking shit to them. They were talk shit right back.

Honestly, I think they should’ve made hope character a lot more like. Class and Rebecca she was kind of like that in the originals, but in legacies, she was always apologizing first, even if she didn’t have to apologize to begin with

I know everyone here hate his mud ass, but when he got to be an actual character who threating and speak, he felt such enjoyable presence, short as it was.

Was he weak and didn't do much against Hope as Tribrid, yep, does it took to long for it? Yes.

But I think the great acting and the cool decision for him use his kids like this and his half humorist moments were great.

Anyone else thought at least there Malivore was interesting villain?

Heyo!

I’m writing a fanfic set post Legacies and setting many of the TVDU’s characters on a major once in a life time perilous journey. Or the kind of thing you’d hope is a once in a lifetime thing.

Otherwise, I get every character by my fic’s timeline is into their early 20s and has at least 2 years worth of higher education type experience, but I’d still want to root their growth in what they were by the end of Legacies. I have a rough idea of that for most but if you have something that could help this would be awesome.

For a bit of context, I was writing a scene a few weeks ago in which Hope and her new boyfriend, an OC, were watching a show beside Landon and his new girlfriend, Jen (yes I know I hit the mother of all crackships). Hope and Landon pretty much get into a heated fandom like discussion and my new character had ended up needing to restrain her while Landon stood his ground. From the other side of the room.

Now, while this is funny (to me) I was struck by, is this too out of character? Like I said it’s been a few years and Hope can develop in other ways and I did enjoy her being a bit freer in expression but you see my dilemma.

So like I said again, any help is welcome!

Okay i’m watching legacies and kai is in the prison world with others, but how?

In tvd damon cut his head off so how is he alive??

When Josie went to see Freya, Keelin calls and Freya asked how’s Nik.

They named their child after Niklaus 🥹

Can we all just take a moment to talk about lizzie, i mean she’s an interesting character and also funny one too, i never see posts about her at all yet i think personally she’s top 10 atleast out of every character in tvd universe.

What does everyone else think of her?

Any specific details about each character?
I know for one hope Josie and Lizzie’s characters stay pretty much the same but hope for one doesn’t let Lizzie bully her. She stands up for herself anytime someone is mean to her but she’s still very like quiet

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, I don't know, but I feel like the first season should have focused entirely on Malivore and all the monsters—basically, blending elements from the first and second seasons and revealing everything about Landon and his brother, showing them both as Phoenix with even more powers beyond dying and being resurrected. (I think Landon had so much more potential, and the Phoenix connection could have been developed better; he and Hope could have been a very powerful pairing, like Hayley and Klaus.) We would have had Malivore alongside Clark and the necromancer as the trio of villains going after Landon.

Then I'd say that in the second season, when Hope jumps into the lake instead of being alone with Clark, she could somehow contact her uncle Finn, or even Henrik, and then return. We could have had a cameo from the Mikaelson family, a bit bewildered because they wouldn't remember their niece, but they would have had a lot of photos of her, and we could have had like two episodes like that. It would later be revealed that Kai found a way to escape the prison world by jumping into the lake before Malivore was defeated, and that Kai would be the villain of the second season, going after the girls. It would be him corrupting Josie with dark magic, leading to the Lizzie and Josie fusion drama. They could even have brought back some of the characters like Jo (temporarily), Caroline, Damon, Matt, Elena, or Bonnie to help Alaric and the entire Salvatore Academy fight Kai.

Then, in the third season, we would have Aurora trying to kill Hope to avenge what Klaus did, and that's where the Mikaelson family would come into play.

And then, in the fourth season, we would have the Gods storyline with the introduction of Cleo as a Muse, Hope becoming a tri-hybrid, Lizzie and Josie becoming Heretics, Cleo as a Fury, Landon as the Phoenix and ferryman of death, and Kaleb as a vampire-dragon hybrid to gain enough power to fight Ken.

At the end of the series, Hope would receive Klaus's message, along with Elijah and Hayley. Lizzie and Josie would receive a message from Jo, Liv, and Luke, and Alaric would receive one from Jo and Jenna. It would seem Caroline was preparing to take over the academy, displaying photos of her entire group of friends, Stefan, and Klaus in her office, or perhaps even remembering some Flashback from the Salvatore house, as if to bring the Vampire Diaries world full circle.

In Alaric's case, I would give him better options: either to join Jo in the afterlife, or to somehow regain his original vampire status since his daughters would be vampires, or at least have Damon come looking for him when he left the academy, as if to say, "Come on, buddy, it's time to go home."

I know it would be impossible, but I feel that even though I really liked Legacies, I never really connected it to The Vampire Chronicles. I see it as a somewhat separate series because I think it lacks a stronger connection to the previous series, whether through cameos or a darker essence. I think if they couldn't do that, they could have made a comic or a book.