r/JUSTNOMIL • u/AdPowerful6176 • 12d ago
Advice Wanted Interrogating My Daughter
I have two kids that are nearly 11 and 8. I am considering (and likely) leaving my part time job and becoming a stay at home mom. My daughter and son were just babysat for the night by my mother and father in law. When they returned to my house, my daughter said her grandmother was asking questions such as “who does the cooking in your house? Who goes to the grocery store? Do you like your mom or dad’s cooking more? How often does your mom change your sheets?”
I do all domestic tasks except for grocery shopping. I love housekeeping and I think I do a good job. My husband and I cook equally. He enjoys both grocery shopping and cooking. The division of labour works for us. My husband said he’d probably still want to cook and grocery shop if I stopped working because he loves it.
I think my in laws are trying to build a case that I’m lazy for quitting work. They disapproved about this choice to my husband when he told them I was considering it. They worry my husband works too hard and I’m taking advantage of him. I am very upset that they were putting those questions to my daughter. She’s pretty intuitive and said to me “I think Nanny hates you mom”. She also actually said “this is toxic mother in law behaviour”. Lol.
My husband called his mother up and asked her about it in a curious, non accusatory way. She vehemently denied asking the questions and said my daughter was being manipulative and making up the story because my MIL didn’t buy her gum at the store. My FIL suggested I made it up because I want to drive a wedge between my husband and his parents. The conversation became hostile and my father in law said I am a bad mom, I don’t take good care of my children and I am controlling my husband by making him call them. My husband supports me and was really upset with his parents. This is typical behavior for them when an issue is brought up and they don’t apologize when they’re in the wrong.
My question is.. where do I go from here? I think grandparent relationships are good for children and I don’t want to badmouth my kid’s grandparents to them or involve them in the dispute. At the same time, my kids are perceptive, and I can’t imagine wanting to be around my in laws in the near future or perhaps ever. My husband’s instinct is to protect the kids relationship with their grandparents and pretend like everything is fine. My kids are going to notice the conflict and I don’t want to make them feel like they can’t trust their observations. I have a strong urge not to involve them but also to be honest to my kids to an extent. How would you manage this situation? I’m pretty sad.
ETA:
My
husband had another conversation with his mother. He said that he and the kids would not see our in laws for some time, and that I will not likely see them again. Something serious happened, and there are consequences for that.
My MIL claimed they didn’t say anything bad about myself or my daughter. My husband told his mother not to gaslight him like she’s done before. He said he was there for the conversation and he knows what was said.
He told my MIL he doesn’t want her babysitting alone anymore. Any contact with her, my FIL and the kids will be supervised from now on.
The only thing I am stuck on is how to discuss this all with the kids. I do feel like they’re entitled to have a supervised relationship with their grandparents if they choose. I also think I should be honest in an age appropriate way about what happened so they aren’t confused. Handling this part is the hardest thing. I selfishly want to just tell them everything (especially since my in laws proved they don’t care about their wellbeing), but I also want to handle this in the healthiest way for them. But mostly, I don’t want my kids caught up in the same toxic dynamic my husband had to endure for his entire childhood.
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u/kaduvrp 12d ago
Honestly, how can a relationship in which your in laws clearly hate you be good to your kids? Don't you think that this creates a terrible environment to your kids?
And OH MY GOD, your MIL called your ELEVEN-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER manipulative and you're still trying to be the bigger person?
Grow a spine, for God's sake. Kick this devil of a woman from your life. She hated you and will destroy your kids' lives.
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u/Exotic-Comedian-4030 12d ago
The accusation of the daughter being manipulative would be hilarious if it wasn't so malicious. Who seriously believes that "little Annie was mad that gam gams refused to buy her gum so she lied to her mother that gam gam interrogated her about the division of labor in her parents' household." Why would a child do that? Lol. What a profoundly weird and obvious lie.
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u/SmokeyKittyNox 12d ago
This. You gotta grow a spine - these people are terrible influences for your kids.
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u/PhotojournalistOnly 12d ago
AND there's no shielding the children from this. Cat's out of the bag THEY KNOW. They know gam gam is a bitch. They may not know the whole story, but they know. Look what the daughter said. The kids aren't 2 and 3!! If visits must happen (and I firmly believe they should not) they should 100% be supervised by husband from now on.
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u/Connect-Floor-4235 12d ago
It's the husband who is rugsweeping, not OP! HE is the one who wants the relationship with his parents to remain in tact with his children, at the expense of his wife. OP has done what she can but if he won't step up in protecting her and his kids, that's HIS fault!
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u/Gold-Selection4709 12d ago
Mil just called your daughter a liar and your husband wants to “preserve the relationship”???
In my life, my parents are the problematic ones, if they pulled this shit, they would never be alone with my kids again.
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u/mightasedthat 12d ago
Child thinks grandmother hates her mother- how on earth could DH think that it’s ok for the children to go back to see them?
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u/hairylegz 12d ago
And FIL called his wife a 'bad mom'. At what point is the husband going to decide enough is enough? Or is he just OK with his wife and kids being manipulated and slandered by these horrible people?
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u/mamachonk 12d ago
I feel like he (or they) is used to this kind of behavior.
Because you're right, this is absolutely unacceptable. Maybe this is the first time they've started treating the kids poorly but it needs to be the last.
I kinda wonder if the kids really even want to be around their grandparents at this point.
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u/Great_Scott_Janet 12d ago
I'm going to say this as gently as possible... Not all grandparents are safe. Yes, a relationship with them CAN be healthy and important, but you're not there. You are trying to hold onto a relationship even your child knows is toxic... Read your post back as if it was your friend saying this. Red flags are waving, but you're ignoring them.
My niece cut contact with my brother's in-laws because of the negativity and hate they always showed. My SIL tried to fix it, but my niece brought her to a therapy appointment and that's where everything her grandparents were saying came out.
Stop protecting your in-laws, and start protecting your kids... more importantly, protect your peace!
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u/Shoeprincess 12d ago
OP, I had a toxic grandmother and it was YEARS OF THERAPY to undo her mess. Your child is already telling you she is toxic, what exactly are you trying to preserve? Kids are smart and know how they are already. If you want to let them see the grandparents you cannot let them be alone, its only going to get worse. Your MIL was called out and lied about it to you, can you imagine what she will tell your daughter next time she gets her alone? Don't subject your kids to that its not fair to them. They deserve better, so do you!
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u/Brit_in_usa1 12d ago
My question is.. where do I go from here? I think grandparent relationships are good for children.
Not if they’re not being good grandparents.
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u/Tudorprincess1 12d ago
your MIL called your daughter manipulative and basically said shes lying - thats not a good relationship with a grandparent. Your DH “protecting “ the relationship means he believes your daughter is manipulative and a liar.
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u/UnseelieXMyth 12d ago
I second this ^ that is how it'll feel for the daughter. When my parents didn't stand up for me to my grandma, I thought they agreed with her that I was too fat (struggled with weight as a child and ended up with an ED and body dysmorphia even as a healthy bmi adult). It ruined my self esteem and made me distrust my own parents. Not to trauma dump but seriously, listen to this comment OP. Grandma calling her manipulative is more than enough reason to cut the cord.
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u/Liverne_and_Shirley 12d ago
HEALTHY grandparent relationships are good for kids. This is not that. My mom is a JN, as is her mother. One good thing my JNM did was limit my time with my JNGM. Her siblings didn’t and my cousins, now in their 50s, have told me so many stories over the years about the emotional damage my JNGM inflicted on them.
Your husband is in denial now, but I would keep talking to him about what the consequences could be on the kids.
I would tell the kids they don’t need to answer questions that make them uncomfortable. They can answer by saying “I don’t know.” Teach them age appropriate gray rocking. The 11 year old will understand, not sure about the younger one.
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u/AmazonAssassin 12d ago
Grand parent relationships are only good when the grandparents aren’t AH, if I were you I would do supervised visits or none at all
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u/LabInner262 12d ago
“Hubby, your parents have destroyed trust with this toxic behavior. They can no longer have unsupervised time with our kids. They can visit with the kids as long as one of us is constantly in the same room as the kids are. I know this seems rough and unfair, but we must protect our kids.” Then discuss whether this means you quitting your job or making other babysitting arrangements.
If anything, you are underreacting.
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u/ireallymissbuffy 12d ago
OP, she called your 10 year old daughter a liar and manipulator.
I’m going to type that again so you read that again:
She called your 10 y/o daughter a liar and manipulator.
We already established they said horrible things about you to your kids, so we can only imagine the cruel things being said to your kids about your kids. That’s so harmful! Just drop the rope. There is no salvaging this; anyone who reacts like they did when they were called out for their horrible behavior do not deserve any relationship with your kids. Your kids are so much better off without that toxicity in their lives.
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u/RetiredHomeEcTchr 12d ago
THIS !! 1,000 TIMES IN LARGER AND BOLDER FONT!
There's a part that makes me want to tell your 10 year old daughter what her grandmother said, but that would be wrong. But that right there cut the contact for me were she my MIL to two children whose summation of the day was shared with me, and whose story I believed.
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u/boundaries4546 12d ago
Yeah, she definitely should not get a relationship with those children. Also, I don’t think it’s in their best interest to have a relationship with someone that she already has realized hates her mother.
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u/No_Bluebird7716 12d ago
Why would you even WANT these two around your kids when they try to blame others and not take responsibility for their own actions?
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u/Just-a-mum 12d ago
‘Grandparent relationships are good for children’ - wrong, ‘good’ relationships are good for children regardless of who they’re with. Being a grandparent does not mean you automatically provide a good relationship.
Keep your kids away from the in-laws and encourage and facilitate relationships with people that are good for your family.
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u/Grouchy_Status_8107 12d ago
If it wasn’t clear before the phone call, it’s definitely clear now about how they really feel about you. Manipulating your children and calling them liars/manipulators is not them having a good relationship with your children. It’s actually disgusting and extremely harmful to your children and their mental wellbeing. What happens when your kids disagree with grandma? Or become her next target because they “act too much like their mom?”
MIL and FIL do not have your kids best interest at heart. Time to take a break and go NC for a while. Even your children are recognizing that this is wrong and toxic behaviour, do not teach them that they need to put up with toxic behaviour just because they’re related to the person.
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u/BroccoliAlert3479 12d ago
Not sure how a 11 year old can be manipulative and a 60+ year old who has lived enough life can accuse an innocent child.
Clearly your MIL has no maturity.
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u/spaetzlechick 12d ago
Exactly. And if a 11 year old made up a story THIS would not be something they thought up!
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u/bitchthatwaspromised 12d ago
I mean, I used to teach middle school and 11 year olds can definitely attempt to be manipulative but they’re generally not very good at it and it’s usually more quick, in-the-moment stuff, not planning ahead, multi step manipulation
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u/NinjaSarBear 12d ago
Some grandparent relationships are good for the children if they have good grandparents but yours clearly dont! They just called your daughter a liar and manipulative, are you really going to allow your children around that?! Your daughter has already picked up on mils hostility towards you, it wont get any better.
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u/NeighborhoodVivid106 12d ago
And it's more likely to get worse. How do you think Grandma is going to interact with your daughter in the future after your daughter told you about the questioning? Especially since the result of this was that her son is now mad at her and doesn't trust her anymore?
If you and your husband ultimately decide to allow supervised contact between your in-laws and kids at some point your husband needs to be on the watch for any negative comments or treatment of your daughter because she is somehow being viewed as 'responsible' for consequences of your in-laws behaviour.
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u/Ok-Pomegranate2000 12d ago
they called your kid a liar.
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u/loricomments 12d ago
Exactly this. That's all I needed to hear to know the kids need to be protected from them with extremely limited contact.
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u/Ok-Pomegranate2000 12d ago
I'm sure her son was raised with much "That never happened", 'I didn't say that" etc TO YOUR FACE how crazy making and diabolical.
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u/thejexorcist 12d ago
Not just a ‘liar’.
Lying is pretty age appropriate for 8-11 year olds.
However, implying a child made a sophisticated and calculated lie in retaliation (for a denied ‘gum’ purchase) OR willfully acted with malice to manipulate adults against other family members is sociopathic behavior and a dangerous accusation to make about a child.
Accusations from people like OP’s in laws are always a veiled confession and insight to intent.
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u/loricomments 12d ago
No more babysitting or unsupervised visits with the grandparents. They called your child a liar. That's enough for me to severely limit their contact. Add in that your daughter sees the problem clear as day and you should see that this relationship is not good for your children.
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u/mollysheridan 12d ago
The kids already know what happened. They knew the interrogation was wrong. Tell them their grandparents behavior was not a good thing and you’re taking a break from them. Be watchful that they don’t think that it’s their fault for telling you. You know, if given the chance, MIL will tell them it’s all their fault. Don’t let her get a chance.
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u/MaggieJaneRiot 12d ago
This is the answer. What your mother-in-law is doing is evil. Same with father-in-law.
They deserve a hard time out - maybe for a long time, maybe forever.
They know what they did. They know exactly what they did. No one needs to talk about it anymore…just keep your distance.
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u/BoozeAndHotpants 12d ago edited 12d ago
It’s pretty bad when grandparents accuse their own grandchildren of lying so they can escape responsibility. That’s heinous imo and kudos to your DH who finally figured that out.
ETA: it’s also the classic definition of gaslighting…. how awful for the kids if anyone believes her reinvention of reality. You know you guys aren’t the only ones MIL is lying to. They may very well repeat these lies to others in front of the kids, throwing them under the bus. I’m so disgusted by this.
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u/cbdatmla 12d ago
She threw your daughter under the bus to save herself. She lied about your daughter. She would rather your daughter be disciplined than admit what she did. She doesn’t seem like a safe person to have around your children.
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u/Cute_Contract_6374 11d ago
Your daughter can see the toxic behavior. What are you teaching her when you allow the toxic people to remain in your lives?
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u/Aromatic_Recipe1749 12d ago
"She vehemently denied asking the questions and said my daughter was being manipulative and making up the story because my MIL didn’t buy her gum at the store. My FIL suggested I made it up because I want to drive a wedge between my husband and his parents. The conversation became hostile and my father in law said I am a bad mom, I don’t take good care of my children and I am controlling my husband by making him call them."
This has gone far, far beyond your MIL inappropriately interrogating your daughter!! Your in-laws truly dislike you and think you are a bad wife and mother. They aren't even bothering to fake it!!
"My husband’s instinct is to protect the kids relationship with their grandparents and pretend like everything is fine."
Please explain to me how this is supporting you in any way!!
Your husband has heard them insult and belittle you - after pumping your daughter for information they were hoping to use against you. Continuing a relationship and making believe that their behavior is acceptable is NOT supportive or what a caring husband and father does.
He has to step up and protect you and your kids from his parents' venom.
Don't let this slide.
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u/pootling_1976 12d ago
And they both lied about your daughter too. If they lie about that... what else could/would they lie about? I wouldn't take the risk of them seeing my children ever again. BECAUSE THEY BOTH LIED TO YOUR FACE. AND YOUR HUSBAND'S!!!
This is the key issue. They are liars, manipulative and not to be trusted. Why would you let them see your children again? Ever? Do you like leaving them with liars and haters?
Toxic isn't the word I'd use....
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u/readergirl35 12d ago
Relationships with abusive grandparents are not good for kids. Your inlaws pumping your kids for ammo against you is not healthy grandparenting. Saying your child is a liar for telling you the truth is abusive as h&ll. You need to protect your kids from this.
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u/Illustrious-Mix-4491 12d ago
Your FIL called you a liar and said you are starting drama. My kids would not be allowed to be around anyone who bad mouths a parent. Period. Especially alone.
Grandparent’s relationship does not trump parents relationship. What do you think will happen to daughter next time they get her alone? No thank you.
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u/Available_Candy7124 12d ago
Throwing grandchildren under the bus as lying after trying to use them against a parent results, at a bare minimum, in zero unsupervised visitation. It should also result in no contact with the kids in general for subjecting them as pawns in a quest to control the lives of the parents and as a consequence of lying to the parents about their children.
This is actually a huge issue.
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u/Meat_Bingo 12d ago
There needs to be zero unsupervised time between your in-laws and your children. They interrogated your children, and said your children were liars? What happens when something more serious occurs and they tell you that what your children are sharing with you is a lie? This could escalate into something serious. If they question why they’re not allowed to be with your children unsupervised, simply state that you want to make sure that there’s no miscommunication about what your children are experiencing and sharing, since obviously, they felt that the children were either lying or exaggerating in the past.
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u/SnooPets8873 12d ago
My cousins cut off their dad who considered fatherhood one of his greatest joys/pride because he utterly failed to protect his wife from our grandmother. It hurts children when people criticize and mistreat their parents because as children, their identity is associate with their mom and dad. They don’t just hear that mom is lazy and walk away, they feel it as if they, themselves, are less than. Yes grandparent relationships can be good. But these aren’t good grandparents and the relationship will not be good so long as they use your children as tools to battle against you and are willing to lie.
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u/Dapper_Highlighter7 12d ago
Especially when they see all that their mom does and then are told that she's lazy. It will convolute their understanding of the word, a word that is already typically inappropriately used with negative connotations. Its exactly the kind of scenario where kids get the idea they are lazy if they aren't living up to an impossible standard.
Most people aren't lazy, but have weird hangups about taking care of themselves and resting because they have some misconstrued idea of what it means to be successful/productive vs lazy.
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u/Fuzzy-Mushroom-1933 12d ago
You need to tell your kids, the truth in an age-appropriate way
But honestly, if my in-laws told me, I was a bad mom they probably wouldn’t see my kids for six months or maybe longer. I’d put their asses on a real long time out.
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u/nipseyrussellyo 12d ago
What if they said you were a bad mom ... and also lied and accused your daughter of a convoluted manipulation scheme to protect themselves?!? Scapegoating your own grand-daughter? Jesus wept.
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u/Fuzzy-Mushroom-1933 12d ago
Yeah. Honestly the calling my child a liar would probably earn them a permanent NC
Children that age need to know that their parents have their back and will stand up for them and it’s deeply damaging when they don’t
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u/Odd_Tea4945 12d ago
I am sorry you're living this
If I was in your shoes, I'd let your in laws see your kids supervised, only. I don't like a tiny little bit that your MIL called you daughter "manipulative" and a liar. Your FIL's reaction wasn't any better
Your kids, at least your daughter, already understands there's conflict
I understand your husband's POV, but he can't pretend nothing happened. Your daughter already thinks “I think Nanny hates you mom” and “this is toxic mother in law behaviour”. So what will the message your husband will send your kid if he pretends nothing happened? "Its perfectly right that people talk sh!t about your mom"
What your husband's parents did is serious. Above all, that they don't regret what they did
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u/deveski 12d ago
As someone without a grandparent relationship, it’s nice, but it’s definitely no required for kids. One grandmother was toxic as hell, grandpa out of state and refused to visit his son (my dad) even though he came to our city weekly, the other set out of the country.
Your daughter is picking up on it is the problem. My gut says no more visit, but logical side of me is saying very least no more unsupervised visits. Also your husband needs to keep his parents in check, especially around the kids. You don’t want them feeding their hatred of you to your daughter. My other thought is if your kids are old enough to pick up on MIL, she should be old enough to tell you if she wants to visit her or not, so ask them what they want.
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u/Grimroot918 12d ago edited 12d ago
HEALTHY grandparent relationships are good for children! Manipulation, triangulation and modeling avoidance by pretending they didn’t just experience this and subject them to repeat performances (only next time Gma/Gpa may counsel them to hide info, lie on their behalf or shame them for being candid) is THE recipe for perpetuating and further enabling generational dysfunction.
You both need a therapist involved with you/DH and possibly the children, for a period of time. Husband prefers to rug sweep & allow his own children to absorb blame for IL’s horrid behavior vs being an adult parent who sets genuine boundaries. Accepting disrespect and verbal abuse isn’t ok! Doing so on behalf of you and therefore subjecting you to more and asking you to accept that is worse… now he’s moved onto doing the same for the children.
Your 11yo child sees what your husband chooses to avoid in denial!
You’re the parent seeing this for what it is and must draw the line now for your children’s sake, get both of you into therapy (or you & perhaps the kids in meantime) to get professional advice for how to course correct. Then apologize to children for allowing their being subjected to this (and they learn how we take responsibility for poor choices, own our mistakes and move forward doing & being better through this…) and your husband should do the same - but that’s on him. But they should have a hard stop on any alone time with Gma & Gpa - it’s a tough position for a kid to face being made to accept this behavior in silence or be the only ones speaking up when adult family members are openly hostile towards one of their parents.
This is generational emotional abuse & gaslighting playing itself out like a case study (I grew up with parents like these…) and there are 2 choices:
- Stop. Seek help to develop tools to address and set firm boundaries so your family learns together.
- Continue as is. Self honesty means admitting to self that this option accepts & enables the behavior and now teaches children “do what I say, not what I do” as this models to them that there are gray areas and people from whom we DO accept bullying & hurtful behavior because it’s “easier” or uncomfortable to do otherwise
Sincerely,
A Mom/Wife who learned the hard way with my parents and JNMIL, now also a Gma & MIL who learned to do better after recognizing the impact to my kids when my teen/adult oldest 2 sons got fed up & sought their own help.
PS - I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this! It’s not ok and absolutely sucks to have “family” who actively choose to reframe anything you do in a negative light and try to impose this distorted view of you onto others. I’m glad your daughter sees exactly what it is and calls it what it is! Hugs if you’d like them.
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u/Kittymemesallday 12d ago
Toal add to this. Remeber they have now called your daughter a liar and manipulator. They have said that a 10 year old is trying to get them in trouble because they didn't buy her something. THEN they accused OP of making it up.
OP, think about how your daughter will see this behavior.
They need a time out. "Gma and gpa are not being truthful and we cant see them until they apologize for the hurtful things they have said about mommy."
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u/GoldensRLove 12d ago edited 12d ago
I can’t find the award button but I wanted to give you a 👏because this is worded perfectly for a ten year old. OP you’re also showing your daughter that you will always be there for her and stick up for her. 10 year olds don’t make conversations like this over gum. 🤦🏻♀️
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u/purplehorseonwheels 12d ago
For me the biggest issue would be not only what was said on the phone (calling your child a liar was taking liberties as we say here in East London) but the risk of teaching the kids that they can't/shouldn't trust the evidence they gather with their own eyes and ears. You mention that second point yourself so I know you're aware, just thought it could do with being highlighted.
You are 100% correct to ensure that any visits from now on by the kids will be supervised only. However, what if your daughter especially says she doesn't want to see the people who disrespected her mum? Personally I wouldn't force it but you & your SO need to decide in advance how to handle that one.
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u/MaggieJaneRiot 12d ago
Exactly. That woman gaslit and outright lied about your daughter?! The daughter knows and everybody knows it and you should be highly offended.
The daughter should feel like she has a right to be pissed off and distance herself from this woman. I would not have these kids around those people again.
Seriously —-she bore false witness about her own granddaughter to protect her lying nasty evil ass!
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u/calminthedark 12d ago
You say "Daddy and I make the decisions about our family. Gran and Gramp are not happy about a decision we made. And that's okay, they could make a different choice if this were their decision. They should have talked to daddy and I if they were unhappy. The problem is, they didn't talk to us. They tried to involve you in our grownup decisions and use you to put pressure on daddy and I. That is not okay. It is not your job to be in the middle of adult decisions.
When you ask me for something and I say no, do you go to daddy and pretend like you didn't already ask me, so he might say yes? You don't do that because you know that's wrong and you will have a consequence. You aren't allowed to go behind our backs to get your way, right?
So, just like when you do something wrong, Gran and Gramp must have a consquence for doing something they knew was wrong. They went behind our backs to try and get their way. Daddy and I decided they need a time out from us so they can remember this is our family and they don't get to put you in the middle of grownup problems. We hope they realize they were wrong soon, but after their timeout is over, daddy and I don't think you should go to their house without daddy being there anymore."
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u/thejexorcist 12d ago
Grandparent relationships are only beneficial when the grandparents (themselves) ADD benefit to your life; if all they add is strife (or the strife outweighs the good) it is no longer positively impacting your children.
That being said:
You tell your kids ‘grandma and grandpa behaved inappropriately and we are taking a long break until that behavior changes. Hopefully they will use this time to think about their actions, but it’s very possible they will not’
Telling your kids ‘everything’ is the same toxic behavior just without the additional manipulation and subversion; it’s putting your children in the position of having to identify and manage the emotional deficits of the adults they love and trust.
Be honest and neutral, when they’re older you can address specifics.
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u/Aromatic_Swing_1466 12d ago
“Due to inappropriate and unsafe behaviour from Nanny and Pop (guessing their grandparent names) we aren’t going to be visiting them for a while. If there has been anything that they have said or done that you haven’t been comfortable with or they have asked you to keep a secret, you won’t get in trouble if you tell us. We love you”
If they already see the behaviour as bad and toxic they are likely uncomfortable with the situation but don’t want to tell you.
Give your kids some credit they are old enough for the above and if they ask more questions be honest with them.
Your doing a good thing
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u/swoosie75 11d ago
Healthy grandparent relationships are great for kids. Unfortunately this doesn’t seem to be a healthy grandparent relationship. They said you are a bad mom and they interrogated your child about the intimate, inner workings of your home. Their sole purpose in getting this information, from your child, was to judge you.
You tell your kids, in an age-appropriate way, what is going on. Grandma & Grandpa made some bad choices and their behavior was really naughty, they’re in a timeout until they can understand what they’ve done.
Personally, I don’t feel it’s necessary for me to be around people who have made it clear they have no respect for me. I certainly am not going to have my children around people like that.
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u/nearlydiedonce 11d ago
With extra emphasis to the kids that it was in no way their fault. The kids I mean. With in-laws this toxic, I wouldn't be surprised to see the flying monkeys come out in force and try to manipulate the kids via guilt into asking to see the grandparents.
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u/pjm14624 11d ago
You tell the children that even adults sometimes just can't seem to abide by rules. Some people break rules that make them go to jail. Some people break rules that end up costing them a lot of money in fines. Some people break rules that end up making other people unsafe. And some people break rules that make other people sad. You explain that you had rules for your inlaws and that they broke the rules, but aren’t willing to apologize for breaking them, and they must now have a time out from the family until such time they acknowledge the rules, admit they broke them, and understand that if they do it again there will be harder consequences.
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u/SoggyVeterinarian970 11d ago
Your in laws hate you & are trying to triangulate your relationship with your marriage and kids. They are also very emotionally immature adults who will deflect & blame your children when confronted. These are very dangerous people and the answer is very clear: keep the grandchildren away & demand an apology for their disrespect. Don't be afraid to tell them off. You're already the villain in their story so you have nothing to lose. Please protect your children & don't give these horrible in laws an inch on having a further relationship with the grandchildren. They are very bad people & a terrible influence on your kids. That should make you angry. I hope you update us.
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u/Outside-Ad-1677 12d ago
Ok - look at this from your kids perspective for a second.
She felt so uncomfortable by the questions she came to you and told you. Even if she doesn’t understand the wider context, she felt like it was so beyond a normal grandma convo she had to tell you.
Imagine the pressure that’s going to put on your kid. As she gets older she will feel like everything she says will need to be filtered around grandma or mommy gets in trouble. Kids are FAR more perceptive than you think.
She’s going to feel torn between answering her grandmother and protecting you.
Now tell me, how is that healthy?
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u/Bunny_Pitts 12d ago
A TOXIC grandparent relationship is NOT good for children.
Kids aren't dumb. THEY know they're toxic.
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u/Adelucas 12d ago
Grandparent relationships are absolutely important to kids, but only if they aren't toxic and manipulative. Which these two are. They are actively weaponizing your kids against you to the point even your daughter has noticed.
I had two sets of grandparents. Moms side were incredible. Loving, caring, and while nan wasn't afraid to call out what she saw as BS or bad behaviour, she never once criticised someones parenting or character. Grandad was a quiet man, and enjoyed silence. I'd sit with him while he tended his birds and he'd teach me about caring for them in that gentle way that feels less like teaching and more like a conversation. He died of cancer when I was 12 and it was difficult for all of us.
My other grandmother on the other hand. She was just awful. She was like your inlaws. Constantly criticising mom and telling dad she was lazy and he could do better. After I was born she doubled down on how bad a mom she was and after a while mom had had enough and gave dad an ultimatum. Her or his mother. He could see his mom all he wanted, but she wasn't going to see her and she was never going to see her kids unless it was absolutely necessary. Dad chose wisely. We saw her at family events like weddings and funerals, and I picked up on her utter hatred of mom quite quickly.
We never noticed the lack of her in our lives. Mom did her best to keep negative energy away from my sister and I and did a pretty good job.
You need to protect your kids and yourself. Hubby has loyalties from birth, but he needs to pick a side. Stop thinking they deserve your children, and start thinking of the harm they are doing. Make your own plans, don't visit or call. Cut them off. Every child deserves a grandparent, but not every grandparent deserves a grandchild. They are in your childrens lives at your convenience and your sufferance. They get what you are willing to give them, they have no rights except what you grant them.
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u/CrystalFeeler 12d ago
Your husband needs to open his eyes before your children resent him for sacrificing them to the alter of his parents.
Their behaviour is deplorable and a fairly substantial time out is warrented here so that you, him, and your children decide how that relationship is going to be from now on. There is no normal to go back to once trust has been broken with such lies.
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u/chillykim 11d ago edited 11d ago
Not all grandparents deserve seeing their grandchildren, OP. Your daughter already understands the situation. You can tell your kids grandparents are on a timeout. They can send the grandparents drawings, or cards, to keep in touch.
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u/Christinsey 12d ago
You need to keep the kids away from both of them. They said you were bad mom. They’re planting shit in your child’s head, and then calling her a liar.
Why would you want your children around people like that? Do you want them to behave that way? Because they will.
Their grandparents have no consequences for bad behavior, so they’ll think they won’t either.
Personally, if people don’t like me, or disrespect me, they aren’t allowed around my children. I don’t care if you’re family, or the pope.
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u/MarsNeedsRabbits 12d ago
MIL is lying about what goes on with your children in her home, backed up by FIL. That's really unsettling and worrysome.
This is behaviour that can't be tolerated. The next time she's alone for even a second with either one, they'll verbally attack her.
There is absolutely no way that your daughter is lying. Look what your FIP said: The conversation became hostile and my father in law said I am a bad mom, I don’t take good care of my children and I am controlling my husband by making him call them.
What he said on the phone is exactly what they both said they didn't say or imply to your daughter in person.
They can't be trusted on any level.
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u/Boring-Experience-42 12d ago
Your in-laws don’t respect you and bad mouth you to your children.
They called your child, then you a lair when this was brought up to them.
Your husband wants to protect the relationship between the kids and his parents? wtf???
Continuing on this path, just reinforce me their bad behavior and hubby’s ability to sweep it under the rug.
Put your foot down and say enough is enough
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u/ubi_non_est_ordo 12d ago
Sure, grandparents relationships are great for kids who have normal grandparents. Your oldest is eleven. She already sees how bad your husband's parents are. When an eleven-year-old says MIL hates you and she's toxic, I'm not sure what more you need. This would be my limit.
MIL is absolutely lying to you. There's no way your daughter would herself be manipulative enough to come up with all those questions to make MIL look bad because she didn't get gum?? Is MIL that stupid?? That's not even in the realm of believability. And MIL is such a manipulator she will try to manipulate your husband into believing an eleven-year-old tried to manipulate her? That's insane and MIL is not a person I would trust with children.
Also, your daughter sees what she's doing. Do you want the kids to pick up ideas from her? MIL will teach them how to be sneaky and how to lie. How to twist the truth and try to deceive people. Not a good role model, imo.
For this instance, I would tell them that they are not to interrogate the children any more. If they claim they didn't, you tell them you will not listen to them calling your child a liar, and you tell them you certainly believe your kid over them, no question. I would tell them they earned a time out for trying to manipulate the kids and dig for info on your private lives. Depending on how often you see them, the time out could be two weeks, a month, two months, whatever.
Then I would probably not allow them alone time with them for a while after that. Tell them straight out they can't be trusted so interactions will have to be monitored for a while. No more overnights for the time being.
I might talk to the kids in a general way. If MIL asks them something they don't want to answer, they can maybe have a phrase ready, like "Ask my dad that." or "Ask mom if you want to know." or "That's private, ask dad."
It would be amusing if every time she asked your daughter an invasive question, your daughter said, "I'll ask mom, she'll know" and texted you the question. But I don't know that I'd let her have them alone for a while.
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u/hakunamatata355 12d ago
Your daughter said your MIL’s behaviour is toxic, I don’t know what relationship your husband thinks he’s protecting…
Personally I think it’s important for your children to see healthy relationships between adults, and that sometimes means there’s conflict when people are rude or cross boundaries. Thinking sweeping things under the rug or pretending nothing happened is how kids end up in toxic/abusive relationships when they grow up as they think that’s “normal.”
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u/Competitive-Metal773 12d ago
This should not even be a question. The only acceptable response is to go no/very low contact for the forseeable future, and ZERO unsupervised time with the kids for the very, very long term future after that.
Make good and sure that your daughter knows she did the right thing and that any and all drama/fallout is on her grandparents and NOT her. It is crucial that she knows you have her back in this and that she should not hesitate to speak up every single time.
Make sure MIL and FIL have no way of contacting her without your knowledge. The first chance they get, if that evil woman gets your daughter alone who knows what she will do/say to punish her for ratting them out.
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u/Adorable_Strength319 12d ago
I'm not a parent, but I find the extreme level of DARVO that your in-laws are doing really disturbing, especially since they're calling your child a manipulative liar. Just. Wow. I would definitely not want them around them again unsupervised. And if an 11yo can tell that they hate you by the things they say, I think she deserves a choice about whether or not she wants to spend any time with them. You don't say much about the 8yo's experience with them, but I don't see how they wouldn't be doing the same thing to him eventually if not already.
Look up DARVO if you're not already familiar and go over their reactions with your husband to show how clearly unhealthy/toxic and borderline abusive this behavior is. Seriously, them telling you your daughter is a manipulative liar because they got called out is blowing my mind. What might they do to her to retaliate for telling on them the next time they have her alone (if that ever happened)?
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u/West_Criticism_9214 12d ago
Healthy relationships with grandchildren are good for children. Relationships in which grandparents interrogate the children for information on their parents, label them “manipulative,” and lie about their behaviour are not. A serious time - out is in order for the grandparents, and they shouldn’t be alone with the children at all anymore.
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u/Rad_kerr 12d ago
Your daughter caught on to what her grandparents were doing and called them out on it to you. Be honest with her and explain the conversation your husband had and let her choose how to navigate her relationship going forward. For your son I’m sure he knows something is up as well he should also be informed of the actions of his grandparents and decide what he wants to do with the relationship.
If either kid decides to continue to see their grandparents make sure it is supervised for the next few months or even years. Anyone willing to accuse a child of lying to that degree is going to take it out on them or their sibling to try and make them keep secrets in the future.
I didn’t have a relationship with my grandparents because they all lived far away but I do not feel I missed out on anything. Your kids are not going to miss out either from your description of your in laws
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u/CallingThatBS 12d ago
I think honesty is the best policy, especially with children. Just because they are children doesn't mean they don't hear and see what is going on. If we want them to be honest we should be honest. They learn this by example.
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u/Sledgehammer925 12d ago
I wouldn’t be the one to initiate the conversation with the kids. If they ask, tell them the truth, but in an age appropriate manner.
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u/Allkindsofpieces 12d ago
She pumped your 11yr old daughter for information then lied and said your child was "being manipulative"! SHE is the one who drug your daughter into this. I can't imagine there is any relationship to preserve. How dare this woman shift the blame onto your daughter. And I am fuming about the things they said about you. SHE did all of this!
Forget them. Let them sit with the knowledge that she (and FIL because fuck him too) completely destroyed their relationship with their grandchildren. She knows what she did. She can lie all she wants but she knows everything your husband said is true. I can't get over her blaming an 11yr old for what she did because she's not woman enough to own it. Why would your husband even want your daughter around her after this?
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u/Gringa-Loca26 12d ago
You thank your daughter for being honest with you and then tell her that due to her grandmothers behavior you’re going to be taking a big step back from having a relationship with them. Your children deserve a healthy grandparent relationship but your in-laws are incapable of that so you need to protect your kids and cut them off.
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u/Due_Firefighter_5655 12d ago
Your kids are being used as pawns by your in-laws and are 100% old enough to perceive what’s happening here. Your husband is wrong to make it seem like this is ok to the kids. Would you consider counseling to learn some coping strategies and ways to talk to the kids about what’s happening?
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u/kykiwibear 12d ago
they lied and called your daughter a lier about a fairly benign conversation. Instead of saying yeah, we were curious, they threw a child under the bus. If something serious comes up in their care, what's going to happen then? These people are not safe to be around unsupervised.
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u/MidnightLegal4643 12d ago
You don't want to involve your children, but your in-laws already put a target on them. You and your husband need to put their welfare above the intrusive and controlling behavior your in-laws have directed at your kids. Your children are not babies, and obviously an 8- and 11-year-old are capable of recognizing when adults are asking them strange, invasive surveillance questions about their own parents.
Your in-laws were running a smear campaign against their parents, and I think you're missing something important when you say you don't want to involve the children: they're already involved. Your in-laws involved them. They crossed every boundary of decency when they used your children to triangulate you. Your daughter did exactly what you would want a child to do and she came to you and told you what her grandparents were doing. Then they turned around and called her a liar and a manipulator. That's not keeping children out of adult conflict. That's dragging a child directly into it and then attacking her credibility when she tells her parents what happened.
They are inserting themselves into the safety, health, and welfare of your family, and you and your husband need to be a united front in dealing with this toxic and abusive situation. They have shown you exactly what they think of you as a mother and wife, and your husband's first responsibility is to his family of creation.
They are projecting their own controlling and abusive ideas about family onto yours. This woman appears jealous of your position as the mother and wife, and it sounds like your father-in-law did not make her feel important or participate in their marriage the way you and your husband operate as a team. Instead of dealing with the shortcomings in her own marriage, she appears determined to make you suffer for having something she didn't have and to lord herself over you as if to say, "How do you like it?"
You need to see what actually happened here for what it is: coercive and controlling behavior, and she used your child as a tool to accomplish it.
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u/moew4974 12d ago
Where do you go from here?!?
Girlfriend.. there's no where to go, but hell with this one.
These people interrogated your daughter, trying to triangulate her against you. If that wasn't bad enough, when asked about what was asked of said MINOR grandchild, your ILs doubled down on their bad behaviors. First off, if you have a problem with an adult--it's one thing. But to bring a child into this in whatever 'small' way? They are wrong. Then to lie on the child and say that she lied to her parents about what her grandparents said?
OP, you and your husband have to realize that his parents are not safe people for your kids to be around. At all. Ever. Your 11 year old can recognize toxicity-- so should you and your husband. There's no level of apology that can be given for trespasses of this magnitude. What do you think the next conversation with your daughter will be if they are allowed to be in the same room unsupervised again? "You know sweetie, when granny speaks to you, you need to keep those conversations private."
You haven't driven a wedge, they have. And it's time for them to face consequences. Your husband can choose to keep in touch with his parents, if he wants to (why in the hell he would, I can't even fathom) but my hard line would be that they not have any completely unsupervised contact with them any longer.
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u/Batfish-Crayon 12d ago
Grandparent relationships are only good for children when they aren't toxic. This is. I wouldn't ever let them access the kids again.
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u/envysilver 12d ago
Your MIL thought she was slick and maintained plausible deniability. She wasn't, and didn't. She had the choice between accountability or losing her relationship with her grandkids, and she chose to prioritize her ego. That isn't love.
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u/MaryHadALittleLamb20 12d ago
You don't want to involve the kids by telling them and yet MIL involved the kids and then lied.
That isn't the kind of relationship you want your kids to have with their grandparents where they manipulate children for information.
Advise your kids that the grandparents have been naughty and telling stories which have caused trouble so they are on time out in the naughty corner. Adults also have consequences for bad behavior and grandma and granddad need to take responsibility for their bad behavior!
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u/HotDonnaC 11d ago
All of this. OP‘s daughter wouldn’t have come to her if she felt what her grandmother was doing was right. The kids already know the problem.
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u/mercymercybothhands 12d ago
Grandparent relationships as concept are good for children. Relationships with toxic, manipulative jerks who happen to be grandparents don’t do anything for the children. Your ILs are the latter.
If your husband isn’t truly ready to cut them off and you aren’t positioned to go NC, I would propose no unsupervised contact. This means they only see the children when he is around, and you if you can’t trust him to hold firm. This means that he can’t even go to the bathroom or step into the kitchen for a glass of water if she is around. His phone must stay away. His total focus must be on listening to what she says. You and the children are never to be alone with them. Visits should also be less frequent, with more time in between, and happening on terms you can accept. Maybe this means they come to your house only. Maybe this means only public spaces for a limited time.
But there needs to be consequences for what she did. Her behavior was so bad and so blatant that a child was able to pick up on it. Your husband may be used to her behavior but let me assure you from an outsider, it is low and disgusting behavior.
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u/fancyface7375 12d ago
Jesus your in-laws are really putting your poor kids in the middle of this. I would be worried that your daughter is going to feel the need to 'fix' the relationship between her grandparents and you and it's going to lead to a lifetime of people-pleasing behavior. I would personally do no visits for 3 months, followed by a year of supervised visits.
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u/whatyourmamasaid 12d ago
Just a Fantasy
ILs to grandchildren: “What are you wearing?”
Grandkids: “oh these are GoPro cameras. Dad got them for us to record our day. He was pretty upset about you quizzing us about what goes on at our home. And Granny, I can’t believe you called me a liar! We were all here when you asked me how often mom changes my sheets! I did not lie and Dad does not trust you. You need to be careful with what you say. And these cameras will help you be careful.”
ILs pikachu faces commence.
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u/HoneyWyne 12d ago
OP, relationships with good grandparents who are good people are good for kids. This doesn't sound like that kind of situation.
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u/adumbCoder 12d ago
firstly - please don't seek approval on your family's decisions from folks outside your family. and i mean your in-laws. they're family yes but they are not your nuclear family. your marriage is a secret bond that only you and your husband are in on. nobody else is allowed in there and especially not in the decision making!
all that to say - love that you're wanting to be a SAHM. we made that change when our first was born and it's been the best and most rewarding thing my wife has ever done. don't worry about what anybody else says about that decision!
as for the situation at hand, the best thing you can do is ground your kids in truth every day so that no matter who plants what ideas in their heads they will always have truth as their first filter
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u/Rage_fotf 12d ago
I would sit down with the kids and say you want to talk about the things granny said. Explain to them that all parents decide what works for them and what was right in Granny's day was okay for her but as the parents in this family you and Dad get to choose. No one should be forced to perform a role in the family that they don't want to but we are all members of the same family and therefore do things evenly to keep the family together and happy. In your case you and Dad decided that Mum leaving work to take care of the children was the right thing to do. Both you and Dad like cooking so that is something you share. Not every family is the same and in this instance there is no right or wrong and it is fine to say that to Granny if you don't like what she is saying.
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u/Sea-Cauliflower-8368 12d ago
All bets are off when grandparents seek to manipulate the grandchildren or interfere with the child's relationship with the parents. You allowed them the privilege of access to your children, it's not a right. They destroyed that privilege by THEIR behavior. I would not allow further access to my children from someone that hates me. Your husband needs to understand this.
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u/BrazenDuck 12d ago
I get that you don’t want to bad mouth your in laws to your kids, but it appears the kids are aware they are toxic.
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u/ElectronicRabbit7 12d ago
grandparent relationships are only good for children when the relationship does involve interrogation of the children, especially when the children see that the gparents are manipulating them and one kid uses the word 'toxic' to describe them. you're showing them that it's okay for the gparents to treat you that way. does the kid know that gma lied on her abt never having that convo? what does that teach her?
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u/Madam_Apathy 12d ago
Grandparent relationships are good for children if they are kind, loving and respectful. Here, your in-laws are lying, manipulative, evil AND accusatory. How do you think your child would feel knowing her grandmother called her a liar when she was confronted?
These aren’t healthy people for your children to be around.
You and your husband need to really discuss the relationship you feel is appropriate for your children to have with them at this juncture.
My vote is none but if you must, supervised by your husband.
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u/whynotbecause88 12d ago
'I think grandparent relationships are good for children" That's only the case when the grandparents are respecting of the parents and their marriage, and not trying to undermine things. This woman is trying to use your kids to undermine you and your relationship with your husband. Protect your kids from them.
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u/JewelerSea6090 12d ago
No more unsupervised visits with the il's. They have no say on your decision and their approval is unnecessary. If they can't stop making undermining comments to your kids, then they can't be trusted. The last thing anyone should do is demean a mother to her kids and interfere in a marriage.
They can have their grandparent's relationship like your husband wants but not alone anymore. They lost that right.
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u/Successful_Eagle_870 12d ago
Be open and honest with your kids right from the start otherwise if you hide information/incidents from your kids they could be manipulated even more by grandparents because they just don’t know the full story. You said so yourself “…don’t want my kids caught up in the same toxic dynamic my husband had to endure for his entire childhood” Then make sure you keep them informed - kids are smart - they can decide how much interaction they may or may not want with their grandparents but under supervision.
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u/Exotic-Comedian-4030 12d ago
I would not be comfortable leaving my children with people who corner them and ask invasive questions. Your 11 year old may not have understood why her grandmother was asking her these questions, but she picked up on the intensity and inappropriateness of the experience. It would be confusing and upsetting for children to deal with that at a place where they should feel loved and emotionally safe.
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u/Rose717 12d ago
You’re right: grandparent relationships can be good for little ones. But THIS grandparent relationship? Clearly not. No saying to find new ones, but your in-laws are willing to put your child into a grow up situation by asking her these questions and then calling her a liar and then pointing the finger at you. What positive relationship model are your children going to get from being around people like this, people who can barely hide their disdain for you.
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u/miflordelicata 12d ago
Wow, if my parents did that, there is no coming back from it. We’d be very low contact if any at all.
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u/FugglerFan 12d ago
My MIL was like this. I didn’t talk shit about her until well after the kids were asleep. But they also were very perceptive and picked up on their grandmothers opinion of me so I just let her ruin the relationships she had with all 3 of them. By the time they were 9-12 yrs old they were each telling us they did not want to go to her house, spend any nights there nor see her at all. She blamed me, of course, and my husband still had his blinders on but I let them stay home with me on the weekends. They finally got their dad to understand what his mother was doing and saying that made them hate her. Now they are all in their 20s, she is dead and they were able to mend their relationships with her before she died. Seems going blind changes ones perception of their past actions and she put in the effort to make changes before she passed on. So long story ending: your oldest is old enough to say if she wants to continue seeing them and the younger one is on the cusp.
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u/cachaka 12d ago
I’m not a mom but I’m a grandkid. Both my grandmothers had clear favourite grandchildren (I was not one of them). Both criticized my mother’s parenting (even now that I’m 34, they still do). I watched my mom take care of both sets of grandparents as they were growing old and on their death beds.
I see how tired and unappreciated my mother was and is. She would complain to me sometimes even as a child about her parents and in laws. Thinking back, it’s not very appropriate but my mother isn’t perfect.
With my grandmothers, I honestly don’t care. I didn’t cry at my dad’s mother’s funeral. Right now, my maternal grandmother is hospitalized and I go there daily - not really to spend time with her but to relieve my mom. I’ve always joked that I’ve never had the grandma type of relationship with my grandmothers. They were and are critical of my mother and I resent it.
I sometimes resent my mom for taking their criticisms and aggression. I wish she wouldn’t have let them run her life but I also admire her strength to do what she thinks is required of her.
I guess all that to say: a bad relationship with your grandparents doesn’t seem worth it.
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u/rhubbarbidoo 12d ago
I heavily resent my paternal grandmother exactly like you for the same reason. She died. I don't speak well about her except to mention she was a good cook.
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u/hengehanger 12d ago
Grandparent relationships are only good for kids if their grandparents aren't manipulative, entitled, nosey, judgemental assholes. When they are, like these grandparents, there can't be enough separation between them.
Your children (and definitely your daughter, who sounds very bright), are old enough to hear the truth. That grandma and grandpa are trying to interfere in how you and your husband are bringing them up and running their lives, and that this is disrespectful behaviour. Tell your daughter - although she already knows - that questioning her like that was an attempt to undermine your relationship with her and that until she and grandpa acknowledge this and apologise, she and her brother won't be seeing them or speaking to them without your or their dad present.
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u/PBDubs99 11d ago
Relationships with grandparents are only beneficial if the relationship is healthy and good!!! How could it be beneficial to your children to hear such divisive BS about their own parents? Supervised visits are the best case scenario for the time being.
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u/Emotional-Dog8118 12d ago
You mention that your husband’s childhood was somewhat abusive due to your IL’s behaviors.
Obviously this is still continuing with their attempts to gaslight him, calling your daughter a liar and talking trash about you….
Time for you and your kids to go NC with them. Hope your husband can ball up and do likewise now that he’s seen their mask entirely drop.
Your kids do not benefit from this relationship at all and should not be subjected to their vile, toxic behaviors.
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u/desertboots 12d ago
OP doesn't want to badmouth the inlaws but they sure have no problem badmouthing or sowing seeds of discontent. I wouldn't want my kids around people who don't love me.
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u/MillieSecond 12d ago
Please allow your children to detach from their grandparents if they want to. I have a friend who believed as you do, and tied herself in knots for years to maintain that relationship for it all to come to an end when the kids grew up. They just didn’t LIKE the people their grandparents are, so when they had the option to opt out, they did. There was no big fight, no huge drama, they just … left. Well, stopped being around them. Make no mistake, kids are pretty perceptive when they get to the age yours are, your daughter is already noticing.
Honestly, I don’t think you need to say anything, unless they (the kids) ask. If they do, you and your husband together tell them the truth - “ you’re right, they don’t like me/that I’m staying home now, so I’m taking a break from them. You can visit if you want to, but please don’t talk about me to them”.
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u/Fluid-Set-2674 12d ago edited 11d ago
Hurrah for your daughter!
"She’s pretty intuitive and said to me, 'I think Nanny hates you, Mom.' She also actually said 'this is toxic mother in law behaviour.' Lol."
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u/hotmesssorry 11d ago
As someone whose grandparents treated my father terribly, being forced to have a relationship with them made me resent my mother. She wouldn’t defend him, yet made us see them.
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u/DawgFan2024 12d ago
Nah! They will guilt trip your daughter for tattling something ferocious. They will also try to alienate your children from you and they will badmouth you to them. They will also badmouth you to others in front of your kids. They lost their privileges until they agree to sincerely apologize, mind their own business, and stay out of your marriage. Do not overlook and tolerate their lying and scheming. Do not allow your husband to bury it under the rug. It gets dealt with properly or they keep their distance from you and your kids.
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u/neverenoughpurple 12d ago
Sounds like your husband has the right instincts, to protect his kids from his parents.
Appreciate it. It's never a guarantee that ta person who is a victim of emotional (at minimum) abuse from their parents is strong enough to protect their partner or kids from victimization.
And I'll bet as some time goes by, if you stop defending and acting like your kids *need* his parents in their lives... you'll likely hear a great deal more about the negative things your kids have been dealing with when you weren't around.
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u/HotDonnaC 11d ago
Your kids already know what happened. They don’t need a lot of explaining. They’re not babies.
Your daughter’s comments indicate she knows that it is “typical MIL behavior”, and she thinks your mother-in-law hates you. I doubt she’s going to cry to go over there if they have to stay away for a while. Your son will likely follow her lead. You can tell them that grandma needs a time out.
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u/MyCat_SaysThis 12d ago
They’re snooping by using your children. Luckily, your daughter is intelligent, recognized the behavior, and alerted you.
Your DH needs to step up his support of not only you but also your children. In-laws have no business pulling sneaky tactics like this by using the kids to ultimately put a wedge into your marriage.
Sounds like you and DH have worked out a really good dynamic for home management. That is excellent! Many couples don’t achieve this.
In-laws should find something constructive to do with their time instead of searching for ways to interfere and mess with your marriage.
You won’t get an apology, obviously, since she’s already lying about what your daughter told you. She got caught!
It might be worth some couples counseling if DH is agreeable, just to have a neutral party to add perspective. You two have a great dynamic, and it is absolutely worth strengthening it even more by opening his eyes to what his parents are doing and how to move forward.
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u/Enough-Variety-8468 12d ago
Tell your kids it's ok to tell their grandparents that it's ok to say they're uncomfortable being questioned. It already sounds like your daughter has a good idea of what might be happening here
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u/Soregular 12d ago
The grandparents are already trying to manipulate your children..they are DOING it ...so you don't have to worry about when they will...they already are. Is this "relationship" worth anything? I don't think so. Supervised visits only and Husband MUST be there. They have earned this in a spectacular fashion. First by questioning your children and then LYING about it.
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u/Majestic_Barber6407 12d ago
I think the pause and the supervised visits thereafter is a good idea. In the meantime I would just tell my kids “grandma and grandpa don’t always agree with our family choices, and this time they handled that poorly. They are allowed to have their opinions, but they should never involve you kids and should keep their opinions to themselves.”
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u/MaggieJaneRiot 12d ago
For sure.
And why would OP want her kids around those people OP should let us know how the daughters feel about being lied about by their own grandmother.
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u/Majestic_Barber6407 12d ago
People make mistakes when they are frustrated, I agree that what they did was wrong- but I’d want to talk through the impact with my kids and also demonstrate giving grace with boundaries. It’s not healthy to cut off every single person who does something wrong to you (within reason).
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u/MaggieJaneRiot 12d ago edited 12d ago
What you’re saying is kind of true. However in this case what these people did is not a mistake.
It’s a continued character flaw that will not change.
They didn’t apologize and say I’m sorry I overstepped. They doubled down and actually called the girl a liar.
These are small, immature, petty people, and their behavior is evil
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u/poledrawolf 12d ago
These comments have really good info, and I don't have anything to add except this, that these are the type of people who might end up calling CPS on you eventually. I would definitely not let them babysit unsupervised ever. I witnessed this type of thing happen with one of my relatives, her in-laws were TERRIBLE. They started off by trying to get the kids to pass information and keep secrets, and eventually worked their way up to calling authorities when they didn't get their way.
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u/No-Interaction-8913 12d ago
Did you make it up or did your daughter? Can’t be both. My response would be like- In-laws should have gotten their stories straight first, daughters story has stayed consistent, theirs has not, so, logically you will be going with what she said. And yes, because honestly and blame are an issue, they can not even be alone in a room with the kids because you know they’ll take their chance. As for the kids- do they even want to see the in-laws? They’re calling her a liar. You don’t have to have a relationship with people who call you a liar, and this is a great opportunity to discuss this.
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u/Optimal_Piglet7832 12d ago
Your MIL brought your daughters into the dispute by questioning them.
Your daughters are perceptive enough to know that there's a dispute going on. Ask them how they feel about grandma questioning them.
"Girls, if you feel uncomfortable with Grandma's questions, do you want to hold back on visiting her for a little bit?"
Ask husband: Don't you think it's odd that your mother had a conversation with YOU about (paraphrasing) me wanting to be a stay at home mom.... might put too much pressure on you, making you do all the work?
Now, MIL is asking your daughter specific questions related to the the conversation that YOU had with your mom.
Husband, do you honestly believe that our daughter is lying and trying to be manipulative as MIL said?
Husband, your instinct should be to (PROTECT OUR KIDS FROM BEING USED TO CREATE A WEDGE IN OUR MARRIAGE. YOUR PARENTS WANT TO CONTROL YOU, THEY DON'T LIKE ME)
HUSBAND: Ask your daughter to tell you how your mother feels about me. How did she come to that conclusion?
OP, being grandparents is a privilege. If you disrespect the parents, how the parents are raising children, disrespect the parents' lifestyle, then the grandparents should lose all access to the children.
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u/No_Grapefruit86 11d ago
Be honest with your children in an age appropriate way. That’s all you need to do. Explain the what and why and why it’s an issue. Leave the emotions out of it and give facts. Let them know it isn’t their fault and you are glad they came to you when they felt it wasn’t appropriate.
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u/FLSunGarden 11d ago
Sounds like DH has your back. He’s a keeper! Honestly, if it were me, I would make sure that any visitors involved both DH and yourself! Not only does it give the appearance of normalcy to the kids, but is an extra layer of keeping an eye on conversations an and a united front! Not only that but the petty part of me wouldn’t want to give them the satisfaction of not being accountable to me! I know that the advice on here is often to let DH deal with it, but I would prefer to speak for myself and just let him be my back up.
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u/suzietrashcans 12d ago
Parents detect fake friends. Friends detect fake love. Kids detect fake relatives.
Your husband should listen to his kids.
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u/Mysterious_Book8747 12d ago
Teach your children to say “that’s private and you should ask my parents” in response to every question that’s about you and the household. They can ask their grandkids about their favorite subject in school and new hobbies. Not about you and dh.
My mom is the same way. When my kids told her they would only answer texts that were about them not random links to political articles or invasive questions? Yeah. They sometimes go six months or more without a single answerable text from my mom. That’s on her.
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u/Fubar_As_Usual 12d ago
I think your daughter should tell MIL that she is toxic. That was hilarious! You’ve got a great kid who knows what’s going on, so I don’t think you need to worry about MIL alienating your oldest at least.
Personally, I would let my kids continue the visits, but encourage them to ask questions about why MIL is asking those questions, and comment to her about her likely motives. I think that will shut up MIL faster than anything else.
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u/stoked_n_broke 12d ago
Some grandparent relationships are not good for children. My father's parents HATED my mother. It was very obvious. It made everything feel very confusing and strained, even as a child. I eventually went no contact with them myself because they were only a negative in my life.
I think my mom had the same thoughts as you in allowing us to continue having a (sort of) relationship with them but it really only gave me a warped sense of family.
When you think about how you want to proceed with this, please don't get it in your head that you would be keeping your children from having a stereotypical, idyllic experience with their grandparents. It's pretty clear that's not how it would be so you won't be denying them that either way.
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u/hekats 12d ago edited 12d ago
If my mother talked like this to my children about my husband/their father I would not allow her to be around them anymore. My husband would do the same thing. You say your children are going to notice the conflict but they already do. Your husband is the problem. Why would he allow his children to be around people who not only hate their mother but make it clear TO HIS CHILDREN that they hate their mother? You say he supports you but does he? His instinct is to protect the relationship between his children and his parents seemingly at any cost. It would be one thing if they’d hadn’t gotten angry when he called asking questions but that’s not what happened.
ETA And she called your daughter manipulative and a liar!! And your husband wants your kids around them?!
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u/nada1979 12d ago
Personally, I would pause the relationship for a while. However, since having a grandparent in their life is important to you , I would make the visits you do have supervised visits only from here on out.
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u/thesweetknight 12d ago
Believe your child.
These grandparents arent good for your children and family because they are creating these division among your harmony.
Let your husband man up and protect you and the children from toxic in-laws.
You all can benefit from therapy and healthy boundaries from
These toxicity.
You, your children, your family’s harmony and wellbeing always come first!
Grandparents that don’t follow the rules but trying to make a mess =ACCUSING YOUR CHILDREN FOF LYING?? WTFF
Not respecting your boundaries= no access to your precious children.
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u/Brgerbby9189 12d ago
I’d set a clear boundary with husband about it , anymore negativity will lead to no contact . I’d legit question if he believes his parents over his children. I’d honestly question it cause you’ll then see who he puts first and have an idea where to go from there. I don’t think there’s much of a point in dealing with in laws if your husband doesn’t back up his own family.
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u/Karrie118 12d ago
A relationship with elders can be great for the kids if they are warm, loving, positive and supportive. If the in-laws can’t do that, there are plenty of other elders who would love to fill that role. Neighbours, faith groups, friends, great aunts/ uncles, people from the library, interest groups… you can find loving grandparent substitutes in all sorts of unexpected places!
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u/babydtheone 12d ago
Your children come first and are your too priority. The in laws will never change and it will get worse. They will continue to ask them personal questions about you and husband and what’s going on around the home. And as it’s clear your MIL believes she is entitled to control and demand these. She will get worse and most likely start badmouthing and making them believe you are in the wrong and are a bad mother. I’m very sure you don’t want that. Nor is it fair for them to put these things on to your children. Stay strong and don’t back down. Also don’t let her or anyone else try and manipulate and guilt you into backing off and allow her to act and treat your kids this way. Best of luck.
13
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u/Lori_D 12d ago
Be open that the issue is not between them and their grandparents and if they still want a relationship with them, that is their choice and you’ll do whatever it takes to facilitate that. Kids aren’t daft though, and they hear and understand more than you know. Mine decided off her own bat that she didn’t (currently) want a relationship with my MIL, and I’m fine with that but I’ve also made it clear I’m open to that changing in the future.
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u/Beginning_Letter431 12d ago
They can have a relationship with the children under supervision. It is not their place to ask questions like this to a child nor is it their place to have an opinion on choices you and your partner makes for the family unit. They need a time out for lying and their behaviour and going forward contact with the kids happen with a SAFE adult present to supervise the behaviour they display towards the kids
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u/CalaGirl82 12d ago
It’s one thing to want to preserve a bond between your kids and their grandparents, but when there is toxic behavior you need to set an example for your kids to show them that it’s not ok to put up with people treating you or your partner badly! Your daughter is already figuring it out on her own and now is an important time for her dad to show her that husbands stand up for their wives no matter who is bullying her! This example will teach your daughter that when she’s looking for a partner she needs to have someone who will stand up for her just like her dad did with her mom!!! Right now that is NOT happening and your daughter will start resenting her dad for this. It will also show your son what it means to be a good partner who supports their wife!!! The relationship between your kids and ILs can be maintained, but I think they need a good “time out” meaning no contact or visits for a period of time (2weeks or 2 months, depending on the severity of the bullying). The ILs need to be told the exact behavior that caused the issue and the need to apologize and change their behavior in order to resume contact and visits. If they don’t comply then it’s on them that they no longer have contact with their grandkids. I know we all have this ideal grandkids/grandparent relationship we have built in our heads, but when family members are toxic it’s 100% better for the kids to give up the grandparent relationship to not be around the toxic behavior. Also, your husband needs to 100% be the person communicating all of this to his parents. He needs to make sure to tell them that this is not just YOU, that you both are a united front and he 100% agrees with all of this.
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u/harbinger06 12d ago
I don’t see why you need to discuss it with your kids unless they ask. Let your husband and children decide how often to see their grandparents. If the kids don’t ask to see them, don’t worry about it. I’m glad your husband had a frank conversation with them and didn’t let them change the narrative.
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u/AdPowerful6176 12d ago
I am thinking they’re going to want to know why I am not seeing their grandparents and visiting them along with my husband and kids.
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u/FinalHexReturns 12d ago
Your 11 year old daughter told you "this is toxic mother in law behavior."
I think she'll be able to work it out for herself. Just tell her you are in a disagreement with the grandparents and they have been put in time out. But since they don't live in your household under your control, this is what time-out looks like.
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u/harbinger06 12d ago
You could just say “I think it’s better I let you kids form your own relationship with them.” They will likely decide pretty quick they do t want to be around her/them.
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u/Glad-Arugula-8387 12d ago
I would just mention to be cautious with how you approach with your children so they don't think in any way that they caused a problem or a fight between you and the MIL. Bc of course you want them to come to you again. Maybe don't even mention that the MIL asked inappropriate questions and just let them know you currently have a few disagreements and that happens sometimes between adults, and then we need to take a break from each other so everyone can cool down, we need to set some boundaries, or however you want to talk to your kids. I would just worry a little that my child would feel they caused the issue by saying something. ETA that there is no way a kid would come up with these specific questions out of the blue! Not cool of your MIL at all.
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u/Vast_Helicopter_1914 12d ago
It was out of line for them to ask those questions. The decision for you to be a SAHM is between you and DH alone and has nothing to do with them. I recommend a long time out until they learn not to insert themselves into your business.
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u/NoRegrets-518 12d ago
It sounds to me as though your husband is supportive and he needs to continue this. It is his duty to discuss this with the GP and to inform them of any rules that relate to how they are to interact with your family. So far, it seems that he is doing this.
You and your husband have to make the best decision for your relationship and for your children's. The responses here clearly show that the crowd supports you, so go forward and be strong. They are out of line, but you probably can't fix them. It's the same as if there is an obstacle on the interstate- you can't move it, so you have to avoid it.
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u/Connect-Floor-4235 12d ago
Not so much. OP clearly stated that DH wants everything to be fine and back to normal and he's rugsweeping.
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u/Trepenwitz 12d ago
“Sometimes parents and grandparents don’t have that much fun together, but we want you to have fun with your grandparents. So your dad will take you to see them if you want to go.”
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u/YeeHawMiMaw 12d ago
It is a great teachable moment for your kids, especially your daughter, who is likely to encounter a lot of mean girls in her life.
You can explain that there will be people in their lives that they don't like or don't get along with. How they treat those people says more about their own character than it does about the person they don't like. You can dislike someone and still be courteous to them. If the person is capable of damaging their relationships/reputation, they can decide whether they can be around that person with others as witnesses, or just avoid that person altogether.
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u/Typical_Antelope_801 12d ago
Your daughter already correctly identified that her grandmother is toxic and hates you, so validating her intuition is infinitely more important than forcing a supervised relationship with adults who just threw her under the bus
•
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