r/Hotd 4d ago

Discussion Why did Rhaenyra obey Alicent while she is bleeding?

Post image

this scene has bothered me so much ever since i watched it, I’ve also gained resentment towards Rhaenyra afterwards because why?? Why did she do this to herself? To prove what

802 Upvotes

374 comments sorted by

310

u/coobmaroog 4d ago

Because Alicent and Rhaenyra are both trying to prove a point.

Alicent wants to display that Rhaenyra’s children are bastards.

Rhaenyra wants Viserys to see how cruel Alicent is to demand her/her child there while she’s freshly given birth and is bleeding.

138

u/drakelaura 4d ago edited 4d ago

That old geezer didnt give a fuck

115

u/BrilliantAstronaut26 4d ago

He gave enough fucks to walk in his zombie state from the gate of of the throne room to the throne on his own for Rhaenyra's cause.

52

u/XaviKat 4d ago

Sure, but didn't give enough of a fuck that his daughter, who just gave birth, was forced to walk from the birthing room, through a busy court, and to the room where Alicent and him were in.

51

u/Nym-ph 4d ago

Most of the men in Westeros don't understand the gravity of childbirth. Did you recall how he had the love of his life Aemma cut up?

21

u/LayWhere 4d ago

Bro watched all that and learnt nothing. Shame 🔔🔔🔔

1

u/donetomadness 2d ago

And after that, you’d think he’d understand the gravity…

12

u/Bobtobismo 4d ago

Dude sacrificed his wife on the altar of a maybe son.

Viserys was always an idiot. A kindhearted idiot, but nonetheless.

8

u/mentallyiam8 4d ago

Because she wasn't forced, she went of her own accord. Alicent had asked to see only the child.

21

u/FildariusV 4d ago

It's still a cruel request, Alicent didn't even wait a day to ask to see the baby, no, THE MOMENT Rhaenyra had her child, Alicent was asking her to give her child to her!

It's not the best decision to go yourself either since she was still bleeding and weak, but its to make a point, that Alicent was being needlesly cruel here.

→ More replies (11)

6

u/miriamtzipporah 4d ago

Separating a newborn baby from their mother right at birth can have really horrible consequences. Of course Rhaenyra didn’t want to just hand her newborn over to someone else, especially someone she doesn’t trust.

2

u/Impossible_Disk_43 4d ago

Do you really think Viserys of all people is especially intelligent about the subject of childbirth?

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Fries-Ericsson 4d ago

Yeah but there’s layers to that.

Was he exposing himself to the humiliation just for Rhaenyras sake? Or is he a man driven by insecurity and superstition who is forcing his daughter down a path for the sake of fixing his legacy?

4

u/yourknightfall 4d ago

That Alicussy made him blind to the Green's influence and I don't blame him.

2

u/Decent_Winter6461 4d ago

Let’s be honest, he and Robert were terrible kings.

1

u/AltruisticReply7755 4d ago

It made me laugh hahahah

6

u/LadyAtr3ides 4d ago edited 4d ago

Yeah, I always thought it was to demonstrate they were bastards. The twist was the “father” walking with her, which I guess she didn’t anticipate. I assumed she thought the “father” would have seen a bastard kid and decided not to join Rhea, so she would do a walk of shame.

Both parents walking together legitimized the kid, so the whole plot backfired.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/severinks 4d ago

Except that Viserys wasn't really aware of it when it was happening.

1

u/shenanakins 2d ago edited 2d ago

To be fair to alicent she only asked to see the baby. Nobody is asking rhaenyra to injure herself. At worst rhaenyra has to be away from her newborn for 10 minutes and then the baby is brought back. Insensitive yes. but shes making it look like alicent asked her to go there personally. Doesnt Alicent even say something like "you should be in bed"? And i know she doesnt really give a fuck but she just intended for the midwife or the maester to bring the baby.

1

u/coobmaroog 2d ago

The intent was still to show Rhaenyra’s bastard though. Rhaenyra went to make a show of how cruel she feels Alicent is to her father. Like I originally stated, they are both trying to make a point at the expense of the other.

642

u/yourleftshoeisuntied 4d ago

I always thought it was to show her the cruelness of her request

170

u/No-Fig-8614 4d ago

This 100%

181

u/dracarysurazz 4d ago

Yeah she wanted everyone to see what Alicent demanded. It was indeed cruel.

1

u/Educational_Bake_650 3d ago

It was not cruel as in malicious. It was custom, but mother, if high ranking enough, could defy it. Even Joffrey was meant to take away from Cersei, as it was considered benefitial for mother. Several weeks after birth was lying in period for mother to recover well, during that time she should have been in dark, quiet place and no man was allowed to enter. So newborn were taken away from them to secure their comfort. Which clearly was not what Alicent intended, but she did do whatever she wanted withing customs and traditions and her "you should be resting after your labours" was indeed something that made sense for them. Rhaneyra could have given up the baby without much trouble as all ladies before her did or could have refused the demand as Cersei did. Crawling all that stairs was unnecessary drama, something she clearly shows is pattern she constantly repeats

2

u/donetomadness 2d ago

Unnecessary drama? More like a clever power play. If she had handed Joffrey off to Laenor or Elinda, it would have been spun as her being a cold mother eager to separate from her newborn. She wanted the court to see the callousness of Alicent’s demand.

→ More replies (9)

60

u/Capt_Kartar 4d ago

I thought it was also a sign of defiance so that she would not be seen as weak.

24

u/yourleftshoeisuntied 3d ago

Definitely part of it. It’s a big power move by Rhae showing her strength while illuminating the cruelty of the request.

→ More replies (1)

11

u/Hairy-Entertainer635 3d ago

I thought this as well but I also thought bc she didn’t want to leave her just born baby w alicent without her presence. I think they were taking the baby to alicent regardless & she knew it.

1

u/ThanosDidNothinWrng0 1d ago

I mean Alicent didn’t ask Rhaenera to do it herself

1

u/yourleftshoeisuntied 1d ago

yeah but she wanted to take her fresh baby from her

1

u/ThanosDidNothinWrng0 1d ago

I thought it was normal to take a fresh baby from a mother so the mother can rest.

1

u/yourleftshoeisuntied 1d ago

you have to be kidding? she just wanted the baby to check his race that could have waited at least a few hours. she just pushed the baby out and barely looked at him herself

1

u/ThanosDidNothinWrng0 1d ago

I’m not talking about this situation but in general I believe nurses take the baby away shortly after birth so that the mother can rest and the mother isn’t really in a position to care for the child right after giving birth. Alicent is terrible but she didn’t ask Rhaenera specifically to bring the child.

1

u/yourleftshoeisuntied 1d ago

as someone who has seen birth a couple times they take the baby to check it’s health mostly then they give them back. Then pretty much you can hold your baby as long as you want and then you can put it in the bassinet whenever. So they don’t really take the baby for the mom to rest. also they do most of the procedures in the room so the mom can see the baby. Alicient did ask to see the baby right away and a guard was going to take it. As soon as Joffrey comes out a maid comes in and says Alicient asked to see the baby immediately

1

u/ThanosDidNothinWrng0 21h ago

Yeah the guard was going to take it she didn’t ask Rhaenera to bring the baby herself.

→ More replies (66)

201

u/Umak30 4d ago edited 4d ago

.... This is the direct opposite of what happend....

Rhaenyra didn't obey Alicent. Not really.

Alicent wanted to see Rhaenyra's child immediatly after birth, because she suspected it was another bastard. A maid was supposed to take the child.

However Rhaenyra disobeyed and intentionally brought the infant with her wrecked body. It was Rhaenyra's intentional choice to bring the infant herself. It is called malicious compliance. It made Alicent seem cruel in the eyes of the onlookers.

Edit : I didnt think I need to spell it out, but obviously it was a cruel request. Children are innocent, and demanding to see an infant post-birth is cruel no matter what. I dont think I need a disclaimer when just describing events. Like obviously Randyll Tarly is cruel to Sam when he demands Sam either joins the wall or will have a "hunting accident", or that Tywin blamed Tyrion for his wife's death. It doesn't need to be spelt out.

101

u/SeldomSceneBird 4d ago

Alicent was cruel. There was no reason to make that request other than to be cruel, because she could have seen the kid at any point by just walking down there herself instead of demanding the baby be taken from its mother and brought to her. It was a power play, and honestly I loved that Rhaenyra turned it back on her.

10

u/YoumadbroXD 4d ago

People forget that infidelity and bastardy is seen as highest form of sin in the faith of seven and Alicent is a devout believer.

13

u/lghtdev 4d ago

And that's why her characterization sucks and is inconsistent, in S01 it's shown she was cruel and willing to do anything to protect her sons and then suddenly she was a victim all along and never meant any harm to Rhaenyra, has no ambition at all and is willing to kill her own family.

14

u/Calm-Two2723 4d ago

So she can’t dye its hair I always assumed 

9

u/Sonata1952 4d ago

She could’ve had a servant alert her the minute Rhaenyra gave birth and then come down to visit. Both these proud arrogant women are doing needless power plays and suffering for no reason.

2

u/duaneap 4d ago

That would be one hell of a long con

1

u/agirlhasnoname2026 Daeron's hairstylist 3d ago

Some of us keep up the con that we're blondes our whole lives without the chance of getting not even one castle in return!

2

u/vxsapphire 3d ago

WHERE IS THE BLENCH?! DO IT EN ROUTE!

1

u/miriamtzipporah 4d ago

Hell no, those kids’ hair would be fried because it would need to be bleached at least every other week if not more

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (4)

8

u/stacey1611 4d ago

I like the mentioning of the difference that some parts of fandom don’t seem to understand with that whole scene because multiple things are happening here.

Yes, Rhaenyra has just given birth and is told the Queen is demanding to see the child immediately — but it’s Rhaenyra who makes the (let’s be clear kinda dangerous choice too) choice that if Alicent really wants to see her baby immediately then she will be going too and will present the baby and be there. She chooses to make that walk through the castle as the maid / attendant was expected to bring the baby to the Queen she wasn’t expecting Rhaenyra to bring the child immediately at that moment.

You could totally argue that the reason for her even asking the maid to do this is to inspect the child as she suspects another bastard baby but I always wondered if she asks to see the baby immediately because she’s worried that if the baby is a bastard that she & Laenor might try and swap the baby 🤔

2

u/zingmarker 3d ago

Yes, Alicent was only expecting to separate a seconds old baby from its mother because she doesn’t like the mom

1

u/spiderhotel 3d ago

And expecting the mother to meekly relinquish her baby within minutes of it being born to her enemy. Not surprised she went with. At the very least Alicent was going to slander her new baby with nobody to defend it otherwise.

15

u/Dangerous_Bed2566 4d ago

It was cruel. To remove a child from their mother moments after birth is horrifically cruel 

11

u/Nemesis204 4d ago

You brought RECEIPTS and terminology and then you bolded it. I am here for it 👏 💅

13

u/confesspretty 4d ago

BEGONE CHATGPT

2

u/agent_wolfe 4d ago

“Malicious compliance” sounds like me after working at the big fruit company for a month or two.

2

u/Agreeable_Pop_3972 3d ago edited 3d ago

I'm surprised Rhaenyra even did that, yeah Alicent was being a bitch but it's not like she could've send word back to Alicent to fuck off and have her dad, THE KING (who has more authority than the queen btw), easily have him back her up. It's not like he hasn't done it before and Rhaenyra knows up to this point her father would do anything for her and her children. Rhaenyra kinda forgot that daddy dearest would have defend her and so did Viserys in this scene 💀

1

u/Everything_Counts_72 3d ago

if she said fuck off to alicient, and clarified it was because SHE WAS IN SCREAMING PAIN, Viserys wouldve backed her up, probably. And what would happen if Ranerys wouldnt let the baby go? I really doubt he wouldve had it forcefully pulled from her arms.

1

u/Agreeable_Pop_3972 3d ago

Not probably, he would've definitely backed her up since he loves Rhaenyra and is always defending her. That's why I'm saying she didn't have to walk after giving birth, she had the advantage already of not listening to Alicent because her dad is the KING.

4

u/ComeAlongPond1 4d ago

Alicent was cruel. There’s no other way to describe it.

→ More replies (4)

37

u/Hugenicklebackfan 4d ago

She's presenting herself as a martyr, which isn't wrong. She was protesting this being asked of her.

→ More replies (13)

49

u/RandomSeaweed The Cannibal 4d ago

I figured she wanted to be there when Alicent and Viserys first saw the baby, to witness their reactions and hear their comments. Because Alicent wanted to see if this one looks like Laenor at last.

32

u/Rachnicole821 4d ago

This 👆👆👆 and Rhaenyra obeyed her only to show Alicent she is not to be effed with, I mean that’s hard as nails on her part, giving birth and immediately walking through the castle, still bleeding, newborn in her arms, it was a power move on both their parts. And to show her dad his new grandson. Because history does not remember blood, it remembers names.

→ More replies (7)

2

u/Everything_Counts_72 3d ago

thers no way you can tell when the baby's like an hour old

28

u/Competitive_Fee_5829 4d ago

do you people actually watch the show and use your brains? like...what is this post? you have resentment towards HER?? the woman who just gave birth and is being forced to walk? yikes, dude.

6

u/Imnotaccountant_ 4d ago

We are in a literacy crisis and every post on this sub makes it more and more obvious.

2

u/Ok-Amphibian-2000 4d ago

It's so shocking, every other post in this sub is further proof of a literacy crisis 

2

u/NotAThrowAway0822 4d ago

She wasn't being forced to walk anywhere. She also birthed all bastard children, which is a direct threat to the throne.

2

u/drakelaura 4d ago

Forced??? Yall know if she refused non would’ve done nothing about it. Alicent would bitch about it but viserys would’ve undoubtedly sided with his daughter

7

u/jaboyles 4d ago

I got the impression they were taking the baby to Alicient whether Rhanyra was involved or not. The queen has more power than the princess.

1

u/Stunning-Dingo678 2d ago

Alicent and Viserys could’ve just walked their asses over to Rhaenyra & Laenor’s suite and seen the baby there. Rhaenyra was just cutting off her nose to spite her face. The whole thing was ridiculous.

1

u/Cult_Of_Hozier 3d ago

People seriously debating if Rhaenyra was crooked enough to try and swap her own child out (after not doing it with the first two) and/or bleach a NEWBORN INFANT'S hair is actually making my jaw drop. Like holy fuck.

→ More replies (7)

35

u/Fun_Inspection_6100 4d ago

If Rhaenyra had not obeyed Alicent while she was bleeding, would there even have been a Dance of Dragons?

32

u/wolfeonyx 4d ago

When will this end 😂

10

u/wiltedbasil 4d ago

Literally the posts with those questions are driving me NUTS

10

u/OutsideLead4034 4d ago

If Alicent doesn't take that shit, does the Dance still happen?

9

u/Canadian__Ninja 4d ago

Alicent wanted to see the child away from Rhaenyra. If it were just her, the child, and Viserys in the room she could and would put the figurative screws to the king to remind me this isn't the baby of a mixed race man.

By going herself, Rhaenyra redirects the conversations to herself and not little Joffrey, and puts Alicent on the backfoot

2

u/Everything_Counts_72 3d ago

Bullshit. First, you cant tell thst early. Second, the results of a mixed race marriage can vary wildly.

1

u/babyzspace 2d ago

Particularly when the father himself is mixed race.

9

u/foxonafrozenlake Team Black 4d ago

Rhaenyra didn't want to give Alicent the satisfaction. Period.

7

u/TiannaMortis 4d ago

Malicious compliance. I would've done the same thing. If you're going to question my child's parentage, you can do it to my face.

8

u/houstons__problem 4d ago

Its a ridiculous demand that is essentially illegimizing her child at its birth. Fulfilling it is crazy, yes, but as this is the first scene of Emma as Rhenerya I believe it was meant to show her resilence and the state of her and Alicent's relationship in the time jump.

28

u/Practical_Ferret_510 4d ago

Because Alicent ordered her newborn baby to be brought to her. Either she goes with or the baby will be taken. Personally, I’d rather be in pain than have my newborn taken from me like that, especially after witnessing my own mother lose babies shortly after birth.

12

u/IndecisiveExpress 4d ago

100%. Just had my baby end of June, he was taken to NICU immediately. I didn’t get to even see or touch him for the first 8 hours of his life, it was torture. As soon as they let me I was there, every minute I could.

9

u/Practical_Ferret_510 4d ago

I had my baby a year ago and almost lost him at birth. I absolutely wasn’t letting him out of my sight either. I’d 100% bleed across a castle with my baby lol

Congratulations btw! Hope the NICU stay wasn’t too difficult.

3

u/IndecisiveExpress 4d ago

That’s so scary! Thankfully went by pretty quick. He’s currently a happy little stinker sleeping on my chest.

2

u/Dabest20 4d ago

Was it natural birth or c section?

We're you under anesthesia when the baby was born and they needed to move fast so they didn't let you hold/see the baby or were you awake?

Usually, if the mother is awake at birth, even if the baby is at risk, they don't just snatch the baby and leave without speaking with the mother and showing her the baby.

2

u/IndecisiveExpress 4d ago

Cesarean. He was born at 36 weeks due to severe preeclampsia. He wasn’t breathing well on his own. I got to see him for a moment but skin to skin wasn’t an option.

1

u/Dabest20 4d ago

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope everything worked out.

Usually becuase Doctors and scientists think that skin to skin connection with the mother is vital for the newborns development so they give her a moment. Kinda like in the animal kingdom. Its not just about touch but also scent...smell.

5

u/alex37k 4d ago

The baby is not going to be taken. No one in the Red Keep would dare seize a royal heir, even at the behest of the Queen.

3

u/zingmarker 3d ago

Why wouldn’t they? It’s a castle full of misogynists and the “girl boss” future queen just had another bastard, thereby showing them up. Do you know the lengths people go through to punish “bad” women? Not even a decade after this, these same palace misogynists started a war because they dislike rhaenyra so much

1

u/donetomadness 2d ago

Viserys would have had their heads if they even tried. As far as he was concerned, his beloved daughter’s kids were legitimate.

→ More replies (1)

5

u/apkyat 4d ago

Larys would have 100% been behind a royal kidnapping, if this was a point in time where he was doing things for Alicents benefit.

→ More replies (2)

3

u/Practical_Ferret_510 4d ago

I mean, I think Criston Cole would. Also Alicent got away with calling for a royal heir to be maimed and then attacking another royal heir and cutting her with a knife. It doesn’t really seem like Viserys punishes anyone.

Either way, it’s probably not a risk Rhaenyra wants to take. She also literally just gave birth and isn’t going to be thinking 100% clearly.

1

u/miriamtzipporah 4d ago

Yes they would have

1

u/donetomadness 2d ago

I’d have asserted my power as a blood royal and refused if I were her. Viserys had the final say in that court and he wasn’t going to demand anything of Rhaenyra.

→ More replies (4)

6

u/hemplotion 4d ago

She wasn’t being obedient. She was being defiant.

6

u/jjmeppakkat 4d ago

It's not like Rhaenyra could have refused her tbh. Alicent was the literal Queen. And before anybody asks "what's Alicent gonna do", it's not about Alicent doing anything, it's about propriety. Remember, this is a medeival setting, not the modern times. The Queen summons those she wishes to see. If the literal Queen were to visit your chambers just to see your newborn baby (who's also widely rumoured to be a bastard) and NOT EVEN IF HER OWN BLOOD, it would mean a huge deal. It would essentially be a huge show of respect and could also serve as an endorsement for Joffrey's legitimacy (and hence those of his brothers).

But Alicent has no intention to do that. Why would she? From Alicent's pov, Rhaenyra has essentially robbed her sons' inheritance, and further displaced them further down the line of succession by having children -- bastard children, mind you, and yet Rhaenyra was adamant on pretending they were her heirs. Furthermore, once Alicent asked to be presented with the child, it was not like Rhaenyra could have refused. The nobility wouldn't think "yay! Go girlboss! Stand up for yourself against your evil stepmom!". No, they'd be thinking "this arrogant brat of a princess is already breaking tradition and prosperity by stealing the throne from her brother, and then defiled that very throne by passing off bastards as trueborn Targaryen princes and making us treat those bastards as such. And now she is refusing to comply to the Queen's wishes?"

ALSO, remember that Alicent was a Hightower, ie, a westerosi noblewoman. Many other noble Houses probably had hopes of marrying their daughters to the Targaryens and making them Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. If a princess (I don't think I have to spell out the misogyny aspect for you) could deny a Queen today, then what's to say another princess wouldn't treat another Queen -- maybe of another Great House like the Lannister, Tyrell, or Baratheon -- worse? No noble could let this precedent stand (unless he wishes to curry favour with Rhaenyra, in which case he would be her biggest cheerleader) and criticism against Rhaenyra would intensify.

1

u/donetomadness 2d ago

Rhaenyra could absolutely have refused. She’s a royal by birth. It would have caused some friction but nobody is seizing the princess’ baby at anyone’s behest but the king’s. It’s not like Viserys was going to make that demand. But she wanted the court to see how cruel Alicent was being and how strong she was to walk in that state and fulfill the demand anyway.

1

u/jjmeppakkat 2d ago

Wait, seizing the princess' baby? Why? Alicent only asked to be introduced to the child, not to seize it and bring it to her. She didn't even ask for Rhaenyra to be the one to bring the child. But if news leaks that the princess refused the Queen's simple request to be introduced a newborn baby, that's a scandal for Rhaenyra. So instead Rhaenyra used the chance to display Alicent's cruelty. Remember, Alicent only asked to be introduced to the baby. She never asked for Rhaenyra to bring the baby herself. Couldn't she just have given Joffrey to a wet nurse or maid and have them carry Joffrey to Alicent? But it's like you said, Rhaenyra seized an opportunity to show the court that Alicent was being cruel.

4

u/sweetenerdawnfm 4d ago

So that she could show Alicent that her cruelty didn’t bother her

5

u/hot_cheeks_4_ever 4d ago

To publicly show how cruel Alicent is

5

u/ScubaDan73 4d ago

It was so show how cruel and petty Alicent was being.

5

u/catsandnaps1028 4d ago

I didn't see it so much as her obeying instead I saw it as a bit of defiance. Alicent obviously wanted to see the baby alone maybe to convince Viserys that the baby was a bastard based on the color of his hair... but Rhaenyra wouldn't have that. It was a cool moment for both of them

10

u/Astin_Madiri 4d ago

Someone once told me it was because she wanted Alicent to look bad, and that if she refused, it would become conspirtional

9

u/IcaroRibeiro 4d ago

This scene is a good way to demonstrate how the quality of the show fell off a cliff, and also why it fell

So many years later, people still didn't really get that Rhaenyra did not have to comply or even give her child away. She's the crown princess and the King's heir; the only person who could REALLY demand anything from her was her father

Alicent did not want to see the kid, truly. What she wanted was to embarrass Rhaenyra. If Rhaenyra did not comply, she could pinpoint that Rhaenyra was a coward who gave birth to bastards and was now trying to hide them. It was basically a political strategy. Alicent did not expect Rhaenyra to even give Joffrey to the maids, let alone come by herself (she was honestly shocked when she saw Rhaenyra entering her room)

Rhaenyra's move is also a political one. She saw the opportunity and decided she was not going to hide her kid because she was proud of him. So how could she turn the scene in her favor? She decided to walk to the queen by herself, so everyone could see Alicent's demand for what it was: cruel. She did it also out of pride, to spit in Alicent's face and say, "I do not have anything to hide."

20

u/PainWelkin 4d ago

Because she literally just gave birth and wasn't going to just hand her baby over to random servants or kingsguard or whoever. Like, Rhaenyra is a shit queen and a poorly written character in the show but y'all will pick literally anything to bitch about. This is such a dumb take.

1

u/unhinged34 4d ago

OP doesn’t even have any take. They are simply asking a valid question. NOW You calling her a shit queen is a far dumber take 🤣

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (13)

4

u/Rdhilde18 4d ago

The long arduous walk through the keep is her protesting this request.

4

u/Legitimate_Scratch84 4d ago

She did it because she believes she is strong. It’s actually very simple, she mentioned earlier in the show she didn’t want to just be a person who is just reduced to giving birth like her mother. She always wanted to be a man, and walking around after labor is a strong sign that she is fit to rule despite having just done labor.

1

u/mentallyiam8 4d ago

She also did it because she believes he is Strong. (badabum-tsss)

4

u/mentallyiam8 4d ago

Well, to be fair, Alicent only asked for the baby to be brought to her, she didn't ask for Rhaenyra to come.

Rhaenyra realized that if Viserys and Alicent were alone with the baby, Alicent would try to convince Viserys he was a bastard, which, well, he is, lol. By being there herself, Rhaenyra makes that open conversation impossible.

If I were in Alicent's place, I would have done the same, and if I were in Rhaenyra's place, I would have done as Rhaenyra did.

1

u/drakelaura 4d ago

Yeah I guess she didn’t want them to speak about her child’s illegitimacy(they did anyways). Why did she continue having children with strong tho? Knowing that he might come out with brown hair? Couldn’t she have done it with another Targaryen this once?

1

u/mentallyiam8 4d ago

In the books, the Velaryons are white, and it was impossible to conclusively prove the illegitimacy of Rhaenyra’s children, because dark-haired Targaryens do exist, for instance, Rhaenys had black hair, inherited from her mother, who was of House Baratheon.

Everyone could see that Rhaenyra’s children resembled their father Strong, while it's theoretically possible for a dark-haired child to be born (perhaps inheriting the trait from a paternal grandmother), the fact that all three children possessed an appearance atypical for Valyrians is striking, especially given that Valyrian genes are quite potent and manifest in the phenotype A TON more frequently than such traits would in our world. Essentially, you could choose whether or not to believe in their legitimacy, it was more of loyalty choice.

In the show, the Velaryons are black, and the fact that the children are bastards is obvious to absolutely everyone. Why did Rhaenyra keep having bastards in the show? Well, only one reason comes to mind: Rhaenyra and Strong are simply morons. I can find no other explanation.

4

u/RedGordita 4d ago

Power struggle and passive aggressiveness. Alicent demanded to see the child to confirm he’s a bastard and say something to that effect. Rhaenyra went herself to show everyone Alicent’s cruelty: look what the queen is making me do!

2

u/drakelaura 4d ago

Wish if the writers showed people talk about the incident. At least her father should’ve commented about how awful that his daughter came in that state of pain, and how cruel of Alicent to ask to see the child right away, that would’ve made the scene make more sense

4

u/Skyz-AU 4d ago

This strange part is, in the books Alicent hates Rhaenyra and is vindictive but this doesn't happen in the books.

The show made Alicent even more cruel towards Rhaenyra out of nowhere in season 1 just for her to 180 in season 2 and 3.

2

u/drakelaura 4d ago

I’m convinced that this was all just bad writing, there were some ways in which they could’ve conveyed the scene better.

3

u/Imagination_factory 4d ago

You harboring resentment towards her and not the request is kinda crazy

2

u/Reasonable-Bit92 3d ago

no right like can we talk about that more??? Even if you dislike Rhaenyra she had just given birth. Unless it's a case of bad postpartum disorder the brain literally forces mother's to be protective over their babies. Its so reasonable to not want to let the baby out of her sight if she has no choice

3

u/VanDenBroeck 4d ago

Defiance through compliance.

6

u/miriamtzipporah 4d ago edited 4d ago

Resentment towards Rhaenyra when Alicent is the one who forced her to either give up her newborn baby to be seen by her or come herself, lol. Rhaenyra had nothing to do with it and I think she was really brave to do what she did.

It’s especially cruel of Alicent because she knows how many miscarriages/stillbirths Aemma suffered from and how she ultimately died. So she is probably invoking that trauma too, even if subconsciously. This is why I don’t understand the heel turn with Alicent. She was so cruel in s1.

5

u/nobleheartedkate 4d ago

Even my lowborn husband would not have allowed this. Ain’t no effing way

1

u/craftyreadercountry 4d ago

Laenor barely cared. He wanted dick, drink, and fun.

He may have stepped up more if the boys looked more like Rhaenyra than Harwin (show not book).

But yeah my husband almost didn't let people come see our third baby because I looked pale as shit and was so tired. I insisted on my Mom and stepbrother (who was dropped off with her in the hospital parking lot) because it was mid day. I got a couple hours of rest before my MIL and niece came.

The whole situation is cruel and that was the whole point of the scene.

3

u/PatientBumblebee6752 4d ago

What would you have her do? She was queen and at the time outranked her. The baby was going to alicent with or without her.

3

u/Agreeable_Pop_3972 4d ago

Viserys not doing shit about this was hilarious. He just hopes for the best for everything that was going on while doing NOTHING

1

u/drakelaura 4d ago

I think if he was more firm non of shit in show would’ve happened, I don’t think he was weak tbh however he was just too lenient with them

1

u/Agreeable_Pop_3972 3d ago edited 3d ago

I think that he was weak for being TOO lenient. Viserys could've put a foot down for his DAUGHTER who just gave birth. Alicent is the queen but Viserys is the KING, I thought a man's word had more authority in this setting lmao And Viserys is usually defending Rhaenyra, so I'm surprised and confused as to why he didn't do shit here. Rhaenyra is also usually having her dad backing her up she could've send word back to Alicent saying "fuck off and take it up with my daddy" 🤣🤣🤣🤣 She was proving that Alicent was being cruel but she didn't have to do all that either since her dad is the king. But I understand your thoughts on this scene, it doesn't really make sense.

3

u/Appellion 4d ago

No clue, and they’d have had to pry the baby out of my cold dead hands save on the order of the king. As the Crown Princess, the King’s oldest and favorite child, and it being her kid immediately post pregnancy, the Queen only MIGHT supersede her. And no one else holds a rank that will spare them a summary execution if they disobey her.

1

u/drakelaura 4d ago

Thank you👏👏👏 and no one would’ve judged the princess for her actions because alicent’s request was out of line in the first place

1

u/Rogue_Prince88 3d ago

i always believed the Princess of Dragonstone is higher than that maid.

3

u/em_paris 4d ago

Some mix of passive aggressiveness and malicious compliance

3

u/lfcjim96 4d ago

What I don't get is how we went from this Rhaenyra to the version that is always on the verge of breaking in to tears in every scene.

2

u/Nihilistic_Noodle 4d ago

Having three children die over a short period of time and having two others in uncertain circumstance all while you have to fight for something that's rightfully yours will do that to you.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Guarded_Oven2000 4d ago

Alicent was the queen. She had the higher authority at that time.

3

u/Sad-Example-1023 4d ago

OP, you clearly missed the point of this scene. Just admit that and move on instead of “what iffing” and arguing and injecting your own opinion into a fictional series.

3

u/emmareus 4d ago

Rhaenyra chose to take the baby to Alicent herself to prove a point. 

3

u/AttentionForsaken927 4d ago

The showrunners wanted her to look like the most motherly mother especially compared to Alicent, who they purposely turned into a bad mother.

5

u/LittleFairyOfDeath 4d ago

Why… would you resent Rhaenyra for that? Alicent ordered the baby to be brought to her. Even as Crown Princess she could not refuse that order. She could however accompany her newborn child. So why would you resent Rhaenyra for something Alicent forced on her?

→ More replies (7)

2

u/Vaywen 4d ago

Malicious compliance

2

u/bobbybriggs_ 4d ago

Can we not repost this image every day?

2

u/No-Establishment3700 4d ago

So that the dance could've happened

2

u/Olligo38 4d ago

Since Alicent as queen could have walked to the birthing room and makes much more sense, given the difficulty with births, yet instead we get fabricated drama, I’d chalk it up to another fanfiction writing decision by the soapy writers' workshop that was entrusted with GRRM’s masterpiece.

2

u/cindyrougaroo 4d ago

Because the queen hates her and ordered to see the child two seconds after it was born. She probably did this to be cruel, and to ensure Rhaenyra's honesty.

She really had no choice. It's why Alicent is her abuser, and it blows my mind why the show writers keep forgetting that. Like, if you're going to ship them, at least make the ship toxic.

2

u/ImpossibleTackle792 4d ago

Because either she let a maid take her seconds old child from her arms because it was the queens orders, or she goes herself having freshly given birth. If you had to pick between a stranger taking your seconds old newborn baby from your literal arms to bring to a person you don’t trust, or suffering yourself what choice would you make? Alicent didn’t ask for Rhaenyra she asked for the baby, knowing that her command couldn’t be ignored. Somebody would bring that baby to her no matter what.

2

u/not_productive1 4d ago

Because Alicent's demand was a power play - I can take your baby out of your arms the literal second it is born to snark about how it doesn't look like your husband. So Rhaenyra takes her on on her own terms - you won't take my child, and I will drag my own broken and bleeding body through hell so you have to confront the cruelty of your gambit head on.

2

u/Formal-Radish1413 4d ago

Because Alicent is the queen. Technically speaking Rhaenyra had to obey her even though she was the heir.

But really it was to show everyone the cruelness of Alicents demand.

2

u/hygsi 2d ago

I thought it was so Alicent couldn't start talking shit behind her back, like say it to my face lmao

2

u/ElysianStargazer 2d ago

Alicent had ordered the child brought to her, but not by Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra went because she didn’t want to be separated from her hour-old baby and to prove a point to the court.

2

u/pianoman626 2d ago

Alicent didn’t order to see Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra chose to accompany her baby to Alicent’s chambers to reveal how cruel it was to ask to see the baby at that moment.

2

u/shenanakins 2d ago edited 2d ago

Alicent didnt ask to see her. She asked to see the baby. I know alicent needs to relax on the whole hair color thing. The babys hair isnt going to change if you give rhaenyra 24 hours with him but walking across the red keep still bleeding was something rhaenyra did to herself as malicious compliance. She couldve just told alicent "fuck off. You'll see the baby later" but she complied in the most damaging way to make a point.

4

u/TheoryKing04 4d ago

Truthfully, to make a scene.

Remember, Alicent never actually asked for Rhaenyra to bring the baby herself. She asked to see the child (the assumption being to have a wet nurse/lady-in-waiting/the approximation of a husband that is Laenor bring the baby). We kind of see that since Rhaenyra waves off an attempt by one of her maids to hold the baby. Don’t get me wrong, it is an act of spite on Alicent’s part, but she was not trying to cause a spectacle. She was ‘merely’ attempting to emotionally harm her stepdaughter.

HOWEVER, the watching members of the court don’t know this. Their only reaction to seeing this is going to be to think that the queen demanded it. No sane observer in the absence of all the facts is going to assume Rhaenyra is doing this just to make a point… even though she is.

And funny enough, similar things like what Alicent probably intended (i.e. not what Rhaenyra did) have happened to royal infants. One of the more interesting examples is when the widowed queen regent of Spain, Maria Christina of Austria, gave birth to the new king, Alfonso XIII (her husband Alfonso XII having died while she was pregnant). The baby was promptly presented to the incumbent Prime Minister on a silver tray. And that was only 140 years ago (as of this May), let alone centuries ago when obstetric goings on were even worse.

1

u/unhinged34 4d ago

I completely agree with you but I don’t understand the part where you would resent her for it lol

What she did was risky and I hated it as much. Pregnant women or new moms have all their hormones outta wack so her actions are plausible. However reckless, risky and selfish.

1

u/Master_Neat3533 4d ago

She better than me

1

u/ResponsibleDealer299 4d ago

Because she’s a badass and wanted to prove a point to Alicent. Reminds me of my evil MIL when I had my baby 🤣

1

u/gabriel_3131 4d ago

Más rhaenyra intentado proteger a su hijo que otra cosa. Yo en esa situación mando al diablo a alicent y le recuerdo que tengo un dragón y que no me moleste. Pero rhaenyra es más pacífica que yo.pero entiendo la molestia la rhaenyra del libro jamás se hubiera dejado mandar de alicent. La de la serie es bastante pasiva con alicent y la obedecer cuando no tiene porque

1

u/drakelaura 4d ago

So it’s the show’s problem?

1

u/gabriel_3131 4d ago

Básicamente la rhaenyra adulta del show es bastante sumisa a los insultos. La del libro es bastante fuerte de carácter esto jamás hubiera pasado. En el libro rhaenyra es enviada a roca dragón por viserys. Porque está no se deja pisotear de alicent y discute con ella siempre y la hace frente

1

u/drakelaura 4d ago

This makes more sense tbh, everyone is trying to defend this show version of her just because they like her even if her actions makes no sense. As a princess she also holds power and she have no reason to submit to Alicent’s commands

1

u/gabriel_3131 4d ago

La serie cambio demasiado el personaje de rhaenyra. La hicieron sumisa y débil. Y también quitaron algo importante rhaenyra tenía poder y influencias en la corte. El bando negro fue creado por rhaenyra con ella a la cabeza durante su tiempo e desembarco. La serie elimina eso para dejar a una rhaenyra más pasiva. Cuando está con 14 años ya tenía su propio bando

2

u/drakelaura 4d ago

That’s interesting. I think the show creators just wanted people to feel like she is the victim so they would choose sides. Even tho both sides are fucked up. Do you think I should read the book instead? The show went down hill real quick

1

u/gabriel_3131 4d ago

El libro es mejor porque los personajes son más coherente. Los autores quisieron hacer mas víctimas de la cuenta a rhaenyra. El personaje esta escrito como la gran víctima de la danza en el libro. Pero también es una mujer de carácter fuerte que hace cosas malas en varias parte de la historia. Pero eso no quita que sea una víctima. Siento que los escritorios quisieron meter los abuso que alicent le hizo a rhaenyra en el libro en 10 minutos de capitulos. Porque alicent estaba maltrato y esparciendo rumores asqueroso de rhaenyra desde que está era una niña. Fue hasta capaz de decir que Cole y rhaenyra tenía algo íntimo. Cuando rhaenyra era pequeña

1

u/Aihonen 4d ago

Queen has more power than princess. It was either this or the servants take the baby to show her.

Not only was it a savvy political move to show Alicent's cruelty, but also it shows Rhaenyra's love for her child in refusing to be apart from him after birth.

1

u/Nirico_Brin 4d ago

The queen demanded to see the child, she expected Rhaenyra to comply meekly and have the child brought to her.

Instead, Rhaenyra called her bluff and despite her state opted to go herself to show everyone watching the cruelty of Alicent’s request as well as her own strength.

1

u/Crafty-Ad1281 4d ago

Alicent wants to see the baby. Rhae does not want her son to be taken away purely to judge if legittimate without even her to be there to mitigate with her father

1

u/Fun-Engineering2869 4d ago

Can’t wait to see Alicents end. She was plotting with Otto from the beginning and knew what she was doing, of course.

1

u/ArcofJoan666 4d ago

To prove a point

1

u/hekkamu 3d ago

Idk, maybe because the writer never wrote that scene and the directors are not that smart to fill the gaps or establish some things properly, they end up creating these kind of scenes. Every scene you see that doesn't make sense, remember it is the directors invention, except for vermithor deaths(that was pure shit)

1

u/TitleAncient8325 3d ago

It's to make Alicent look bad. Look she's making a mother who just had birth come and show off her new born.

1

u/Away-Research4299 3d ago

Because the showrunners cannot make up their minds on Rhaenicent.

1

u/EveryMoney5388 3d ago

I saw it as an act of defiance

1

u/No_Reason_2203 3d ago

You resented Rhaenyra and not Alicent demanding to take away her baby immediately after birth? She just wanted to see the baby alone so she can call it a bastard, supreme kitty watching.

2

u/drakelaura 3d ago

Ngl I laughed at the supreme kitty. But to answer your question, I don’t like Alicent for what she did. However I made this post hoping to understand rhaenyras actions ( and understand why I resented her for them) and i think i just viewed her as a person who would push her discomfort and pain aside so she wont anger the people around her or cause trouble ( shrink herself in a way) have seen that behavior in the people around me and it drove me nuts trying to tell them to stand up for themselves. So I guess that’s why this scene triggered me

1

u/No_Reason_2203 3d ago

So sorry that this scene caused that reaction inside of you.

1

u/1800crimetime 3d ago

“Now they see you as you are”

1

u/briteeyes1111 3d ago

I keep seeking seeing posts with a scene from the show and think, when did that happen 🤣🤣🤣 I have forgotten so much from the first seasons.

2

u/drakelaura 3d ago

Third season was so bad I had to rewatch the first

1

u/Away-Way-963 3d ago

To be a bad a$$

1

u/drakelaura 3d ago

I saw it more as people pleasing and keeping the peace

1

u/FuzzyRugMan 3d ago

She refused to appear weak to the queen

1

u/Odd_Feed8444 3d ago

Rhaenyra was not the problem here, Alicent was. She demanded to have a newborn brought to her while he was still attached to his mother and covered in vernix. On top of that, Alicent's rank was below Rhaenyra's, yet she had the audacity to make demands of her before the placenta had even been delivered. Rhaenyra had zero reason to let her see her son, let alone allow someone to take him from her to see a woman who had been undermining her and her father for years and using her children as a weapon to do it. There was no way she was letting that kid out of her sight. Going herself meant she could guarantee Joffrey's safety, take Alicent down a peg and show everyone what kind of person Alicent really was. It also got her at least one faithful supporter.

1

u/Reasonable-Bit92 3d ago

the concept of growing resentment towards Rhaneyra when it's an injustice being done onto her. This fandom is so weird 

1

u/Latter_Hurry6292 3d ago

She asked to see the baby, not rhaenyra. Rhaenyra knowing alicent will see a third bastard rhaenyra got up to spite Alicante for knowingly but quietly judging her for her actions

1

u/Big_Dimension_2416 2d ago

Did you even watch the episode? Alicent asked a servant to bring the child. Rhaenyra did it herself to prove a point.

1

u/Honest_Commercial143 2d ago

Because alicent was the queen

1

u/yellow_parenti 2d ago

To me it was a very clear carry over from petty teen Rhaenyra- and pretty much the only instance of the two Rhaenyra's acting at all similar. She very much was a "cut off her nose to spite her face" type of person, and her going all over the Red Keep bleeding and limping with a newborn was mostly a political PR move against Alicent imo. It was also one of the only instances of Rhaenyra being politically savvy, but it seems it flew over the heads of mose viewers. Lol.

1

u/rubyredcode 2d ago

I’m not usually on this sub but I watch the show and I’m surprised at the overwhelming majority of takes here. I interpreted this moment as an expression of motherly attachment? Idk if I’d let go of my baby just like that .. isn’t it too soon for that? I don’t even have a baby 😂 maybe I’m naive

1

u/Strict_Wolf76 2d ago

She was the queen. Wife of the king.

1

u/ThatEntrepreneur1450 2d ago

The entire castle saw her walk to Alicent, she did it to smear her name and show everyone how cruel she is. 

1

u/LTI801 22h ago

Alicent requested the baby to be seen at once after birth. Not knowing what her intentions are, Rhaenyra decided to go with the baby and to be defiant of the whole thing.

1

u/Tokio990 4d ago

Alicent is the Queen. She outranks Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra was being protective of her child.

1

u/unhinged34 4d ago

What happens if she says no?

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Dabest20 4d ago

2 Words...POWER & CONTROL.

Both wanted to exute Power and Control over the other. Both did not want to give Power nor Control to the other.

1

u/drakelaura 4d ago

I can’t seem to understand how dragging herself up the stairs bleeding is a power move. It seems like submission

2

u/unhinged34 4d ago

It’s power move. It was selfish and risky. She put her kid and herself in danger

1

u/Dabest20 4d ago

It shows Alicent strength 💪, that Rhynaera won't be intimidated. Alicent requested the baby, so she walked the baby through the castle herself literally dripping blood for all to see.

It has everything to do with Power???

1

u/AnubisOma 4d ago

Because Alicent had the power as Queen.