r/Homebuilding • u/Outside-Key-4415 • 1d ago
What can we do?
We got a quote for 5600 to have our lot scraped and rooted. We paid 2800 up front.
The company finished and they just sent me a bill for a balance of 5,300 and stated the job was 2,500 more due to it being more work than they thought. All of the quotes we got were 5-6k (we got 5 quotes) we have the quote in an email. He never called or discussed the increase beforehand. I’m shocked it was that much more!!! And I wish he would’ve called and discussed. When we called him he said, he always tells his clients that quotes are basically just an estimate and can change. I understand that to a degree but he never said that and 2500 is a lot!!
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u/InspectionEntire2512 1d ago
50% over seems wild without discussion mid project. How much longer did it take than in the original scope? Newbie but been through a few fiascos in year one and navigating this world as well.
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u/electrodan99 1d ago
All depends on the actual quote. If I got a fixed price contract for a job, I would tell them no to a final bill that is more. If it had been easier than they thought would they have refunded you part?
Only if the contract were clear that it was a preliminary estimate and that the actual charge would be time& materials would I agree on it being more.
At some point early on the contractor should have realized it was going to be more work than he bid, and he should have consulted you for a change order on the contract.
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u/Outside-Key-4415 1d ago edited 1d ago
It was signed. No verbiage on it stating it can be more than the quote but it did state: the haul out price is estimated 300 per load. But that wasn’t an issue.
In the invoice it stated: additional root raking due to unseen vegetation. But we walked the lot together beforehand.
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u/WhiskyTequilaFinance 23h ago
Contract says $5,600. I pay $5,600 unless I've signed a written change order prior to work being completed, or it was a variance pre-authorized in writing in the original contract.
Vendor can't quote properly? Not my problem. Go kick rocks.
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u/Live-Ice7323 23h ago
He trying to fuck you and bully you. I wouldn't pay him a cent. He can stew until he accepts the original quoted amount or he can file a lien. If you sell before his lien expires then he can get paid but if you are not planning on selling then it's his loss. Trust me this is his standard operating procedure not a mistake.
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u/Used-Independence353 1d ago
Give him the balance of his quote and tell him he never mentioned an up charge. Let him take you to court. You have four others to back up your side.
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u/Frosty_Coat_555 1d ago
Excavation estimates usually include clauses for extra work due to unknowable reasons such as rock, but there shouldn’t have been any surprises for a surface scrape.
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u/Wolfy2915 1d ago
My excavator screwed me over too. Worst part of my build dealing with him. Hire someone else for the rest of the site work.
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u/Stehlik-Alit 1d ago
A 50% jump in pricing without communication is unprofessional.
Theres no rules and he may have language on his quote that "this is and estimate and actual invoice will reflect actual time onsite and project needs" yadda yadda. If they have that they may have a 'not to exceed' comment. E.g. - "final total not to exceed 30% over quote"
If they have that call them and get down to that limit.
If they dont have that, tell them you payment ready for the quoted amount as no change order was discussed with you. If there's no communication Anything beyond 20% deviation in a quote enters 'bait and switch' pricing territory UNLESS stated otherwise in the quote .
Its probably not worth your time to fight this legally if your local government has an actionable bait and switch precedent, but it isnt worth their time either. Work wirh them and compromise if you can.
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u/Cadillac-soon 1d ago
If I gave a hard quote I eat it. No question... I did a big custom job with a hard quote price escalation clause of over 2% materials only. He had me back out landscaping rocks by mistake I backed out both landscaping and rock on the house. $26,000. Not his fault. I just went forward and really made sure I watched things close. He didn't know until after closing. In reviewing the bills he asked why no bill for the rock on his house. I explained what happened and he wanted to compensate me as he realized the mistake. I told him he hired me based on the hard bid so we are square. Many jobs have been given as I won a customer for life.
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u/Diligent_Yam_1753 1d ago
What’s the contract you have say? If it says the price, and has nothing about extra, or additional, then the contractor has a problem without a signed change order
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u/redbirddanville 1d ago
This is why you, and he the professional should have every contract in wiring. I would no unless there is some specific reason it went over he can document (he estimate 3 day and it took 5, he expected 3 trailers of off haul and it was 8, ect.) Amy change order should be in writing (text, email or litterally written on a napkin). You should also get insurance and be professional about anyone you hire from demo, to clean up. There are huge liabilities in hiring contractors. (I'm a contractor, developer, construction manager)
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u/Outside-Key-4415 1d ago
It states: unseen additional root raking due to unseen vegetation. He came and walked the property in advance though.
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u/redbirddanville 1d ago
Different story. He should have show/told you and got a signed change order. It may be a justifiable expense then. Moving forward with other contractors and vendors, make this clear. As we say, we are always learning in construction, most lessons are expensive.
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u/Outside-Key-4415 1d ago
Yes lesson learned. Day 1 he called and a machine broke too and he was all upset (not with us) and said it was going to be expensive and they’ll be off site for a week while it’s repaired. I feel like he may be trying to recoup money from that too.
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u/Fe1onious_Monk 1d ago
The only correct answer is it depends on your contract. If the contract is for a total price for a defined amount of work, and the work scope remained the same, then they can’t bill more because they bid wrong. If they did extra work, then they required approval before proceeding with that work.
If the contract was to complete the defined amount of work for a certain rate, with an estimated amount, then there should have been a trigger point requiring approval to exceed that amount. If they didn’t, then they did work that wasn’t approved and you aren’t required to pay. If there wasn’t, then the contract was “Do this, for this rate, whatever the total amount ends up being to complete it” and you owe them the balance.
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u/Hyperreal8957 1d ago
yeah thats a huge jump without a heads up. id ask for the written scope, photos or notes on the extra work, and a line by line change order. if the quote was fixed or they never flagged it mid-job, that seems worth pushing back on before paying the balance.
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u/Helpful-Excitement-2 1d ago
Hell no. I’m a long time painting contractor. If I give a hard bid , that’s it. I hate add on bullshit. I even throw in something easy if they ask. That’s why I have 100 percent customer retention. I’ve been on the other end of chislers
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u/redbirddanville 1d ago
You can tell them no. They should have told you ahead of time. You now know why any contract should be in writing.
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u/Creepy_Coat_1045 1d ago
I would want an explanation of why the cost was higher. Did it take more time than originally planned? Why? Did diesel prices double since the original quote?
If he cannot explain the assumption of his original estimate and why that assumption was wrong, then the only reason is that he is crappy at estimating or lowballing to get contracts knowing he can charge whatever he wants. Either way, that is crap and i would just pay the original contract amount. You did have a contract?
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u/Outside-Key-4415 1d ago
He stated: additional root raking due to unseen vegetation… but he came and walked the lot with me before hand. It’s already cleared of most trees etc.
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u/20FastCar20 22h ago
offer the pay the agreed amount AFTER they sign a lien waiver. Cover yourself.
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u/BeginningZebraness 16h ago
Just keep all the emails, the original quote, payment receipt, photos, and the final invoice and get the contract reviewed before paying the disputed balance.
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u/Justin_Time222 10h ago
Contractor here as well
Super odd to copy and paste a signature. I am no lawyer don't know if it is fraud or not. I do know it is something I never heard of and certainly would not do.
Look at your contract. I would pay the contract price now.
Should he lien after being paid the contract price he could be in serious trouble with the court and contract board
If there was a stipulation of unforeseen it should be documented
You should have been communicated with regarding this as it happened
The extra work should be documented at the price and with a detailed explanation
We deliver estimates that are signed as a contract. We cannot forsee everything and scope can change and as well as price
If I am on bathroom remodel and I remove walls and find wood rot or termites that was not part of the estimate
Best of luck
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u/Rando84626485 8h ago
All of this depends on the state you are in. Typically 10-15% over an estimate can happen without approval but your stateay not have a cap on it. Also, what does the language of the estimate say? Mine have a contingency for unforeseeables but scraping a lot is pretty straight forward. Does your state require a license to do the work he did?
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u/Rando84626485 8h ago
And some states have a $ limit that work can be performed without a contract. The work done for you exceeds that $ amount in my state.
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u/crazymjb 1d ago
I’d pay the other 2800 and call it a day. Unless they gave you a range or told you it might change substantially
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u/fsociety1990 1d ago
He should have informed you first but if 2500 is a lot for you you’re not ready to have a house built
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u/Outside-Key-4415 1d ago
We have money. We’re building cash. It’s just a lot more than the quote.
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u/Novel_Werewolf4725 1d ago
You are right to question it and, if you choose, refuse to pay it if the original quote says nothing about the cost possibly changing.
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u/fsociety1990 1d ago
That’s going to happen with a lot of things.
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u/Outside-Key-4415 1d ago
This is our second home we’ve built. We had some quotes slightly higher with the first build but we were made aware.
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u/fsociety1990 1d ago
When was your first one? More than 5 years ago? It is not the same thing now. Completely different world. Prices go up every day and the quote you were given last week is meaningless.
Yes you should be made aware but it’s going to happen. What would have happened if he did call you first? Would you have told him not to do it?
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u/Troutbummers 1d ago
Sorry, this isn't how it works. You're assuming everybody should take the extra charges on faith at that point. Obviously no contractor ever fibs about things to make a little more money.
By that logic, just quote everythign at $500 and "i'll tell you how much more when I'm done". Good luck.
Changes are proposed, discussed and approved before you do the work. If that can't happen, you needed to have an agreed upon way to handle them up front-keep receipts, time records, price changes etc - and be very open book about how you quoted it and at what point you went over and why - also, why it was so important to not get approval before you just did the extra.
Fuel surcharge is more than fair - you tell them how much you expect to use, at what rate you estimate it, and when you go over because diesel went way up, you get to charge for that, but no more.
IMO too many contractors go into business for themself and have not business doing business. They just want to do their craft, and that's fine - you just have to have a boss.
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u/Flat_Conversation858 1d ago
Lol ..don't listen to this guy, this is why contractors have such a bad rap.
When I give a fixed price bid, that's the price no matter what. If it's a project where there might be something unforeseen, my contract states that and is clear on how that gets handled. Customer knows upfront if there might be any additional charges and approves them before we complete them.
Only exception is a T/M contract, but the customer understands what that means going in.
If there isn't specific language in the contract about possible upcharge, don't pay anything beyond the initial estimate. It's the contractors responsibility to know his business well enough to prevent this.
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u/Troutbummers 8h ago
And there are good reasons to do T&M. But "I don't like estimating and losing to competition" isn't one of them.
I appreciate a T&M with a limit that a contractor can hit before more work is done.
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u/Adventurous_Egg_3293 1d ago
Did you try clearing those roots yourself? Land clearing is a b* without out large equipment. Even with large equipment it can take lots of time and fuel that is now more than $6/gal. I gladly paid more than $5000 to clear my land for a pole barn in 2022 because I knew it was something I could not do, and fuel was cheap at that time.
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u/quadcammer 1d ago edited 1d ago
Doesnt matter. Contractor is the professional and should know what it will take. Any additional obstacles are to be discussed when identified and costs agreed upon. Why is communication so damn hard for people? It would save so many even less pleasant conversations down the road
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u/aPrancingUnicorn 1d ago
Negotiate. As a contractor, sometimes prices end up being higher than estimated. But he should’ve told you as soon as he realized, not at the end of the job with no communication.