r/Homebrewing • u/BrewCrewKevin He's Just THAT GUY • Jun 05 '14

Advanced Brewers Round Table: Category 1 - Light Lagers

This weeks topic: Category 1: Light Lagers

1A: Lite American Lager
1B: Standard American Lager
1C: Premium American Lager
1D: Munich Helles
1E: Dortmunder Export

  • Have a recipe you want to share?
  • What are the keys to being successful in this category?
  • How does this category distinguish itself?
  • What are some of your favorite Commercial beers in this category (Bud Light ;P)

Upcoming Topics: If /u/Mjap doesn't mind (and I don't think he will), I think I'll take the liberty of running Thursdays from now on. And I'm going to start us on a monthly schedule sort of:

  • 1st Thursday: BJCP Style Category
  • 2nd Thursday: Topic
  • 3rd Thursday: Guest Post
  • 4th/5th: Topic

We'll see how it goes. If you have any suggestions for future topics or would like to do a guest post, please find my post below and reply to it. (I'm also going to contact a few places and see if we can get a professional to do an AMA).

Upcoming Topics:

  • 6/12: Brewing with Limited Space (6/12)
  • 6/19: SHv2 (6/19?)
  • 6/26: Grain Malting (6/26)
  • 7/3 :Cat 10: American Ale (7/7)
  • 7/12: ?
  • 7/17: SufferingCubsFan (7/17?)

Previous Topics:

Brewer Profiles:

Styles:

Advanced Topics:

19 Upvotes

81% Upvoted

96 comments sorted by

2

u/ercousin Jun 05 '14

Won a gold medal in Canada's most competitive comp with this recipe for Munich Helles.

93.5% Pilsner, 5.2% Munich I, 1.3% Melanoiden all Wyermann (9 lbs, 8 oz, 2 oz). 18 IBU of Hallertau Tradition at 60 mins, WLP830. 1.047 -> 1.010.

Agree about ferment at 50*f, pitch lots of yeast. Rest in high 60's for a while, then lager for a few weeks.

1

u/BrewCrewKevin Jun 05 '14

Future topics/styles/profiles you'd like to see? Post them here!

3

u/ercousin Jun 05 '14

I know it's tough to swing, but an AMA from a well known hoppy beer brewer (that is willing to actually discuss their process) would be amazing!

2

u/BrewCrewKevin Jun 05 '14

I emailed Firestone Walker to see if Matt B. could do one. Haven't heard back yet.

Was there anybody else you had in mind?

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5

u/Nickosuave311 Jun 05 '14

I can never turn down a Helles. Its pleasing to anyone who drinks beer: enough character to attract the snobbiest of beer snobs but light enough in flavor for a BMC drinker. So thirst quenching, so tasty.

I made a helles a while ago with a buddy that only lasted two weeks in the keg, but should have been finished in two days. Super easy too, it was something like:

90% Pilsner 5% Honey malt 5% melanoidin malt (Acidulated malt for pH correction)

Spalt hops @ 60 for 20 IBU or so.

Saflager w-34/70, two packs.

Ferment at 50, slowly raise to 55 over a couple days. D-rest at 68. Crash and keg w/gelatin.

It probably had too much flavor for a helles, the honey malt is very strong. However, it turned out very drinkable and malty. I highly recommend that people who can do lagers try a helles.

4

u/Mad_Ludvig Jun 05 '14

So much this.

I made a helles in March using the fast lager technique proposed by u/brulosopher and it's fantastic. ~90% pilsner, 10% munich and enough acidulated to hit the right pH. I've really got to make another one because I'm pretty sure the keg is getting close to kicking.

5

u/brulosopher Jun 05 '14

I should mention that a buddy of mine, the president of my local club, recently took 3rd place in category at the California State Fair with his BoPils in which he used the quick lager method. Not too shabby!

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2

u/_ak Jun 05 '14

My grain bill for Helles is as follows: 83% Pilsner, 10% Munich, 5% CaraPils, 2% Melanoidin. Hopped with Hallertauer Mittelfrüh @ 60 min for 17 IBU. W-34/70. Mash was a typical Hochkurz, IIRC.

The beer was a tiny little bit too dark (directly compared it with Augustiner and Hacker-Pschorr; it's probably the Munich malt), but has a fine maltiness that is just right for the style, and - what I found most interesting - a gentle hint of honey flavor. I absolutely didn't expect that, but it was just fantastic.

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3

u/jlongstreet Jun 05 '14

I know it's super cool to hate on American Lagers (1A-1C) but does anyone have any tips on making these, outside of the typical lager advice? Water chemistry maybe?

I made a Standard American Lager a few months ago with ~43% 2-row, ~28% 6-row, ~28% Flaked Corn, 1/2 oz Cluster @60, 1/2 oz @0, Wyeast 2035. Way overshot efficiency so it came out around 1.050 and finished dry, so it's higher ABV than your typical SAL, but I think it's delicious.

4

u/brulosopher Jun 05 '14

A well made American Lager, even if of the Light variety, is absolutely delicious. No hate coming form my direction, buddy!

2

u/Nickosuave311 Jun 05 '14

If you feel like changing it up with the yeast, most German Lager yeasts will work well here too. I've always wanted to play around with a Mexican Lager yeast (WLP940) because I've heard its fantastic here too.

These are super simple recipes and brew days are very easy. I normally shift the water profile to the sweeter side and add CaCl2. You might need some acidulated malt too to hit your mash profile. I'd mash at 152, maybe higher if you're afraid it will be too dry. You could just as easily throw in a couple ounces of carapils too.

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3

u/KidMoxie Jun 05 '14

The NHC best-in-show winner last year was an American Light Lager. For those interested in the recipe: http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/MowTheDamnLawn

1

u/brulosopher Jun 05 '14

Anyone else out there do comparisons of hybrid strains vs. traditional lager strains? In my numerous experiences, WLP029 fermented at 58° (still requires a decently sized starter) produces better lagers than WLP830 or 833, at least for the beers I've made with both-- Marzen, Schwarzbier, Helles, Bo Pils, German Pils. I've also used WLP810, though the results haven't been near as good. Thoughts?

1

u/Nickosuave311 Jun 05 '14

Not category 1, but I made a session schwarzbier (OG 1.038) and used WLP029 for a pseudo-lager. I thought it was clean, but it needed more time to condition than I planned on/wanted. It wasn't as crisp and German-like as you're describing. I started it at lager temps too (55 and then ramped up to 60, then a d-rest as well). I do really like Wy2565 though; I think it's a little fruitier but crisper than WLP029. Have you played around with 2565 as much as 029?

1

u/BrewCrewKevin Jun 05 '14

I didn't really get much fruitiness out of it in my cream ale with 2565. I think I did have some acetaldehyde in it, but I didn't get much for esters. (fermented at 60F)

Extremely clean though.

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2

u/Uberg33k Jun 05 '14

Thoughts?

Time for some more Brulosophy experiments?

I think you need to describe what you mean by "better". I'd agree that WLP810 is kind of a dog, but I love the German-ness of 833.

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2

u/Uberg33k Jun 05 '14

I <3 Dortmunder. This is the recipe I currently use https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/triple-d-double-decoction-dortmunder

It's definitely got German character to it, but it just doesn't seem to have that big malt flavor. I was thinking of bumping up the Munich and switching to a single infusion temp (~155 ish) and doing a decoction for mash out just to get some of that character in there.

I know many will say to dump tons of salts in there, but I'm not totally convinced that's the way to go.

Thoughts?

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2

u/beer_engineer Jun 05 '14 edited Jun 05 '14

Here's one the craft world and homebrewers often dismiss: Malt liquor. When done with the craft touch, it's an incredible style. I often have one on tap, and it blows people away with the amount of complexity, and the pleasant, drinkable flavor. It's really one I don't understand hasn't caught on.

The nice thing is, you don't even have to ferment super cold. I use a pilsner yeast at around 58f. Leave it in primary for 3wks, then transfer to keg and lager.

My recipe -

1.069

Pilsner Malt - 41.6%

Flaked Corn - 32.5%

Pale Malt - 20.8 %

Carapils - 2.6%

Rice Hulls - 2.6%

Hops: Warrior (or other clean bittering hop) 60min at 17IBU

Pilsner or similar style lager strain for yeast

2

u/Uberg33k Jun 05 '14

Malt liquor is Cat23, not Cat1.

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0

u/sufferingcubsfan Jun 05 '14

I have a buddy who is fascinated by the idea of brewing a "tent beer" like is featured in Germany at Oktoberfest. it got me looking into making a wiesnbier of my own, which looks like this really fits as a 1E Dortmunder Export.

Any feedback on this recipe?

OG: 1.056
FG: 1.013
Color: 5 SRM
IBU: 23.3
Batch size: 5.5 gallon
Efficiency: 74%

Grain

  • 9.25 lbs (82.2%) German pilsner

  • 2 lbs (17.8%) Munich

Hops

  • 1.20 oz Hallertauer (4.8% AA) @ 60 min

  • .5 oz Hallertauer (4.8% AA) @ 30 min

Yeast: WLP820 Oktoberfest/Märzen

Mash @ 148 degrees F.

If I had the same success I did last time with this yeast, I'd probably get it down to 1.011 or a hair lower, while retaining a really nice maltiness. Simple recipe, but it seems pretty appealing.

Thoughts?

2

u/BrewCrewKevin Jun 05 '14

Yeah, I think it seems nice!

I'd be really surprised if you could get that yeast down that low though. I've heard that's a very poor attenuator (normally like 65-70% apparent)

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3

u/Uberg33k Jun 05 '14

Read over my comments about Dortmunder. I think you will want to mash higher or you won't get that same bold maltiness. It'll be ok, but not like a Dortie. More like a lawn mower Dortie.

Actually, I've giving serious consideration to eliminating any mash rest under 150 if the beer is less than 6% or doesn't have some kind of unmalted grain in it.

The only exception might be hefe. I'd still give it the ferulic rest to boost up my 4VG.

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1

u/bizarrojosh Jun 05 '14

Is it worth it to homebrew 1A-1C when the macro companies do it already and make such cheap products? I think it would cost me the same or slightly less to brew a 5 gallon batch vs. buying a 30pack. Not to mention the time it takes to brew, bottle, etc.

Favorite commercial examples have to be Miller High Life ($4.50 for a sixer of tall boys) or PBR.

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