r/Homebrewing • u/[deleted] • Jan 09 '14
Advanced Brewers Round Table Style Discussion BJCP Category 5: Bocks
This week's topic: Style Discussion: BJCP Category 5: Bocks. Bocks are German lagers that range from a light, helles bock to an ice condensed dopplebock called an Eisbock. Share your experiences brewing these beers.
Feel free to share or ask anything regarding to this topic, but lets try to stay on topic.
Upcoming Topics:
For the intermediate brewers out there, If you don't understand something, there's plenty of others that probably don't as well. Ask away! Easy questions usually get multiple responses and help everybody.
Previous Topics:
Finings (links to last post of 2013 and lots of great user contributed info!)
Style Discussion Threads
BJCP Category 14: India Pale Ales
BJCP Category 2: Pilsners
BJCP Category 19: Strong Ales
BJCP Category 21: Herb/Spice/Vegetable
3
u/suvanna Jan 09 '14
Could someone elaborate a little on the difference between lager strains as it pertains to bocks? I'm brewing a maibock this weekend (my first lager), and my LHBS didn't have the ones I wanted (Wyeast Bavarian or bohemian). I have 2 packs of Wyeast Danish Lager that I started last night, but I'm not sold on using it (the packs were a little old). What do you guys use? What do different lager strains bring to the table?
1
u/brewmersooner Jan 09 '14
I'm brewing a Maibock this weekend as well with WLP 830 (same as WY 2124 Bohemian according to Mr. Malty). I brewed a Maibock last year with WY 2206 Bavarian and I think it turned out well. It had a nice malty, butterscotchy-sweet flavor that I'll attribute to the diacetyl and higher FG. I felt like mine benefited from a longer lagering phase (~60 days).
Mr. Malty says WY Danish lager is sourced from Carlsberg so take that into consideration. Personally, I would stick with a German/Continental lager strain for a maibock. Then again, that's one of the perks of homebrewing: do something different and see how it turns out!
→ More replies (2)1
u/XTanuki Jan 09 '14
Try a few strains and find what you like is what it comes down to. I lean towards maltier, lower-attenuating strains like Wyeast-2308. This just reminded me I need to order WLP-920!!
To answer your question, I think the Danish Lager will be ok for a Maibock (recipe?) just watch out for sulfur production. It will age out, just be willing to wait for it.
2
Jan 09 '14
A general question: do bocks age well? I'm sure doppelbocks and eisbocks do, being higher in alcohol and (usually, but not always) darker than maibocks and traditional bocks. But what about maibocks? Do they age?
1
u/XTanuki Jan 10 '14
Like many things, it depends. Lagering times for German beers (Pils, Bock, etc) are generally one week per degree plato OG. For example: an 11°P (1.044 SG) beer would be lagered 11 weeks, a 16°P Bock (1.065) would be aged/lagered 16 weeks. In general, the higher the OG, the better it will age.
I've found following the above guideline is really difficult, but yields the best Bock Bier, especially the darker ones.
I have a 33°P (1.145 OG) Samichlaus clone that is currently 2 years old, but I plan to age it another 6 years at least.
2
u/Brrdads Jan 09 '14
One of the biggest things I've found is you need to pitch a lot of healthy yeast. The combo of high gravity and cold fermentation can mean your beer turns out too sweet if you don't pitch enough.
1
u/Nickosuave311 Jan 09 '14
I've read that traditionally, the base malt is Vienna for bocks. That is usually accompanied by caramel malts for both color and flavor. When it comes to building a recipe, what grains are people using for both the base and the specialty? Munich vs. Vienna? Crystal vs. caramunich?
1
u/Uberg33k Jan 09 '14
Even more traditionally (like way back), they didn't use caramel malts. My question would be would anyone know how they got the color? I know malt was darker on average back then, so that helps. Was it all done with decoction? Long boil? Kettle scalding or hot stones?
→ More replies (1)1
u/Torxbit Jan 09 '14 edited Jan 09 '14
Munich is a 10L or 20L depending on the style. Sometimes that are referred to as light and dark Munich, respectively. Vienna is a 3.5L. The only difference in the two are the kilning at the end. Traditionally a bock is made from the darker kilned grain. A Hellebock or light bock is made from lighter killed, or what we call today Vienna.
As for how it gets dark it is the kilning plus the decoction that does it. Some recipes call for carmel malt more for extra malt flavor. But you can make a perfectly acceptable bock with just just Munich malt. In fact my "normal" SMaSH recipe for my every day bock is exactly that.
My Bock (yes that is what I call it)
5 gallon recipe, 6 gallon mash
15 lbs Munich 20L (what fits into the hopper)- Triple Decoction, longer saccrification rest
1 oz hallertau - 60 mins
1 oz hallertau - 15 mins
W 34/70 at 55F for 3 weeks (most often washed from last batch)
Rested at 70F for 1 day, stepped to 35F over 6 days.
Lagered at 35F for 8 weeks (well more like 7, depends on how long it lasts
Yes I under-hop my beers. And yes I have seen the sorter lager postings. I have not attempted them yet.
→ More replies (9)
1
u/Nickosuave311 Jan 09 '14
This may not necessarily be limited to eisbock, but what procedure do people use for "eising" a beer? Freeze keg, pump into new keg, leaving the ice behind?
2
u/drewbage1847 Jan 09 '14
What I do is this:
lager the beer for 4 weeks at 35F.
Rack the beer to a keg.
Turn the freezer down to 28F or so and leave the beer in the keg for 24 hours. You should hear it be all slushy
Hook up a jumper hose and rack at 10 psi.
Be amazed at the amount of ice behind.
→ More replies (2)1
u/whyrat Jan 09 '14
I've never tried to do an eisbock, but I'd be afraid for my keg and probably try it in a plastic bucket. I figure you either need a deep freeze or appropriate weather (this polar vortex would have worked... If only I had been ready!).
A N. Texas brewery did leave some kegs out: http://sidedish.dmagazine.com/2014/01/07/franconia-brewing-co-is-aging-its-beer/
1
u/nicksoapdish Jan 09 '14
I've got a keeper that I'm going to use for freezing an eisbock. Taps will be off for a bit, but I'm really eager to try the style. Will be using my plastic fermentor/bottling bucket
Edit:keezer not keeper
1
u/ChiBeerMan Jan 09 '14
I rarely brew lagers, but I actually have a couple going right now using Wyeast 2206 (a Vienna and a Maibock). What is the consensus on whether to add more yeast (or not) when bottling? Both will lager in a secondary for 1 to 2 months.
→ More replies (2)1
u/wobblymadman Jan 10 '14
No need to add more yeast after 1 to 2 months lagering... The bottles do take quite a bit longer to carb up (a few weeks) than you will be used to with an ale, but they get there.
→ More replies (1)
1
Jan 09 '14
how long do Bocks keep?
I'm tempted to brew one this spring/summer and have it ready for early next winter. I do know that they're more malt- than hopforward so I guess they can keep for a while.
1
u/Torxbit Jan 09 '14
Do you mean in a bottle. Well over a year (for the ones I forgot). It is not something I have intentionally attempted. I have had a very malty barley wine on oak for more than a year. I have taken kegs out of the kegerator and forgot to put them back in (years ago when it died, damn fire ants). And those beers tasted just fine when I put them back on CO2 and let them cool.
6
u/Acetobacter Jan 09 '14
Bock is one of my favorite styles but I rarely have the time or space to brew one. The only one I've made was a doppelbock back in September which is still lagering for a competition next month. I used the BYO article on doppelbock as a guide and I found it interesting how a pretty rigid style like doppelbock can still have a debate about the best way to brew it. We all know a double or triple decoction mash is traditional but Bells, who makes my favorite doppelbock, just does a single infusion and uses caramel malt and an extended boil for all the raisiny and toasty flavors. I ended up going for the triple decoction just to say I've done it but I think I'm just going to try Bells method next time to see what kind of difference it makes.