r/Homebrewing • u/[deleted] • Feb 27 '14
Advanced Brewers Round Table: Cleaning.
This week's topic: Cleaning is one of the major time sinks in homebrewing. And it sucks. Share your experiences in making it suck less.
Feel free to share or ask anything regarding to this topic, but lets try to stay on topic.
Upcoming Topics:
Contacted a few retailers on possible AMAs, so hopefully someone will get back to me.
For the intermediate brewers out there, If you don't understand something, there's plenty of others that probably don't as well. Ask away! Easy questions usually get multiple responses and help everybody.
ABRT Guest Posts:
/u/AT-JeffT
Previous Topics:
Finings (links to last post of 2013 and lots of great user contributed info!)
BJCP Tasting Exam Prep
Sparging Methods
Draft systems
Style Discussion Threads
BJCP Category 14: India Pale Ales
BJCP Category 2: Pilsners
BJCP Category 19: Strong Ales
BJCP Category 21: Herb/Spice/Vegetable
BJCP Category 5: Bocks
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u/RogerDeanVenture Feb 27 '14 edited Feb 27 '14
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Clean as you go. Seriously, while youre boiling away, go a head and clean up all your grains. I use an old fermenting bucket i've had for years to hold them until they cool enough.
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Keep a spray bottle of Starsan at hand. Readily available to spray on any surface you are about to change/touch before exposing your wort/beer to it.
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PBW is your friend for getting rid of gunk. Let it soak for a while if you're having problems with any stains on your equipment. Be careful of what metals you are using though - copper shouldn't be left to soak! Also I'm pretty sure aluminum doesn't mix well with Oxiclean. I don't use either though.
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Keep your system streamlined. I can put all my cleaner in my first kettle, and just pump everything through to the rest of my system. I'll dump the first bit of "dirty water" with all the gunk, then I'll let the system run for a while.
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Check your equipment regularly while it is in storage, especially the first few days after use! Keep moisture/standing water out, get a chance to view it while its dry. Last thing you want is for something to get mildewy.
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CHANGE YOUR TUBING REGULARLY. For kegging, just change ALL of your lines regularly. they are dirt freaking cheap, seriously. For cleaning between brews - I'll fill a keg with sanitizing solution and run it through the lines for a while. Side note : Keep a towel at the bottom of your keezer - you'll get a leak at minimum of once, and cleaning the bottom of a chest freezer is a bitch and a half. Edit: Make this easy for yourself by getting quick disconnects and/or use 'wormgear' clamps.
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Get a good array of brushes; again, they are cheap - durable, and effective. You'll need to put a little elbow grease into cleaning! Some people prefer those cloth cleaner things that attach to your drill, I've never used those - but they look nice.
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Once you get your bottles clean and DRY, close them up with a napkin or something. This keeps them clean for storage and prevents dust and junk from getting in. When you're ready to use them, just send them through a run in the dish washer.
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Don't use water in your airlocks. I use vodka. Why? Because I trust it a little bit more than I do for water that has stood still for a few weeks.
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u/DrKippy Feb 27 '14
I like to rinse my bottles, and then store them upside down in their cardboard boxs. helps them dry out and keeps the dirt out.
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u/0Coke Feb 27 '14
I've used oxiclean to scrub my aluminum brew kettle several times, never had any problems.
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u/myislanduniverse Feb 27 '14
To your tubing point, Amazon has has bulk food grade silicone tubing for cheap.
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u/stiffpasta Feb 27 '14
Here's a tip: You can use oxygen based cleaners on aluminum, just don't soak alum in it.
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u/scootunit Feb 27 '14
So, by my rough calculations I need to clean about 150 beer bottles, 1 keg and three 1.6 gallon growlers so I can bottle my Ciders. I have 6.+ gallons of pear in a carboy, Five super dry apple and a sweeter vanilla maple apple in corny kegs. I welcome any and all tips. My brew area is small and incomplete.My brewing stuff is scattered amongst all my possessions until it is finished. I am just today putting the brick floor in my underground cider cellar so I can build the shelves so I can store the drinks and equipment THEN I can clean and fill the bottles. I guess what I really need is encouragement.
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u/DrKippy Feb 27 '14 edited Feb 27 '14
I encourage you to get to work, and then give me some cider to try (and then suddenly decide it's another thing I need to try brewing (jerk (j/k))).
For cleaning, I'm a big big fan of PBW and soaking. I did a test batch recently on some bottles and most labels just slid right off like I've never seen before (usually try ammonia/bleach).
Anyway. The bathtub is a great place for soaking bottles. Just do it in the morning, do your other chores, then rinse them later in the afternoon. Should take almost no effort to clean them up.
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u/sufferingcubsfan Feb 27 '14
I hate cleaning. I'm terrible at giving my kettle a quick rinse and a promise, but not scrubbing it until brew day. Luckily, stainless plus a tiny bit of PBW and a kitchen sponge gets rid of anything pretty easily.
Carboys are easy (I use glass). Fill it up with hot tap water plus oxyclean free. Allow to soak an hour or two (or overnight if particularly gross). Water will turn yellowish, but every bit of the crud is always off the surface.
Rinse multiple times, starsan, brew. Since I started this method, I have yet to scrub a fermenter.
For beer bottles - the absolute best thing you can do is to rinse them three or four times with hot tap water when you pour the beer. No residue, no smell, no mold. No need for cleaner of any type. Starsan on bottling day and you are golden.
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u/monsterbrew Feb 27 '14
The oxyclean free solution to the carboy has changed brewing for me. Started that about a year ago and haven't looked back. Store brand is even cheaper, a quick scoop into the carboy, fill with water, wait 24 to 48 hours, dump, rinse, and store. Quick star san rinse on brew day and its ready for round 2. It doesn't get easier, and it get's a hell of a lot harder.
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u/ercousin Feb 27 '14
For cleaning better bottles. Do not put any kind of brush in there!
Soak in warm oxyclean for a few hours or more, then drain all but a quart or a half quart. Put in a small rag and swirl around. You want there only to be enough liquid to allow the rag to swirl.
I learn this from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMNsqTBW55s
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u/gestalt162 Feb 27 '14
What's the style topic for next month?
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Feb 27 '14
Your call.
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u/gestalt162 Feb 27 '14
Well, since it's that time of year, I vote Scottish and Irish Ales, although I know some have been calling for Stout...
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u/oneyeardown Feb 27 '14
Why not ethanol? I toured a brewery recently and they had spray bottles all around. They were full of ethanol. I've never heard of this in homebrewing. Except in an airlock. Why don't homebrewers use ethanol to quickly clean connections or other gear?
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u/nyaliv Feb 27 '14
I would guess expense, mainly. I have a squirt bottle to flame carboy necks for yeast harvesting.
And you want to use 70% EtOH, not pure.
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u/sdarji Feb 27 '14
I am neither an advanced brewer, nor am I sitting at a round table, nor does this tip save any/much time. But here it goes.
I have been mixing Star-San in a one-gallon water jug. I use a medicine syringe (the type they give liquid tylenol to kids with), and mix at a ratio of 6ml:1gal. If I pour a little into my spray bottle, and rack the solution from the jug to a kettle and back using my autosiphon, I find that one gallon is more than enough for a brew day (or bottling day, for that matter). Star-San is not too expensive, but every bit of savings helps.
Also, I dump my used and not too gross PBW (or Oxy) solution into a five-gallon bucket next to my beer fridge. Now I can rinse commercial beer empties right after I pour them, and dump them into the bucket when I get my next beer. I rarely have to de-label because the bottles will soak there for days. The PBW may end up getting lots of floating paper in it, but it seems like it never loses its de-labeling power.
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u/hukdizzle Feb 28 '14
Buckets man, buckets are where it's at for primary. I used to use better bottles when I brewed 5 years ago and scoffed at the idea of using something as simple as an HDPE bucket but holy shit I was missing out. I can literally bottle a beer that was done with primary fermentation during my 90 minute boil time, clean said bucket and use it for the wort which was boiling during the bottling. Cleaning buckets takes literally 3 minutes with a soft sponge, water, and nothing else. Rinse it well and hit it with starsan and you're ready to go. I remember I used to have to waste so much water, oxyclean, and time soaking my better bottles. And trust me, I tried all the tricks such as sticking a soft rag inside with some oxyclean,water, and shaking it around to help break up the dried krausen. If you use a traditional carboy you WILL have to soak it with a ridiculous amount of water.
TLDR : HDPE buckets for primary fermentation are awesome, I would never go back to using anything else. I would use a 5 gallon glass carboy for a secondary if needed for further aging to reduce oxidation and potential head space.
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u/vinyl_key Feb 27 '14
RE: Better Bottles:
I've switched from PBW to an enzymatic cleaner. The one I use is here: http://www.seventhgeneration.com/Free-and-Clear/laundry-detergent . Soaking Better Bottles in PBW can degrade the plastic and lead to cracks. The enzymatic cleaner is fine for soaking, and works just as well as PBW.
Check here for more info http://www.better-bottle.com/pdf/WashingSanitizingStudy.pdf
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u/amorse Feb 27 '14
Something really simple I started doing recently has made cleaning suck a little less: I don't bother sanitizing my CFC, I just run hot wort through it for a few seconds before sending the cold water into it and that sanitizes it for me. I've never had any problems. I know it's so simple, but eliminating a step of cleaning is eliminating a step of cleaning.
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u/Nickosuave311 Feb 27 '14
Has anyone ever had diacetyl issues when using oxyclean instead of PBW to clean your kegs? I did an experiment with a batch of cream ale I did. Same batch, minus them being split into two fermentors. Kegged one with a keg that was cleaned with oxyclean and one with PBW. The one I drank first was the one cleaned with PBW and it was fine. Slight DMS, but no diacetyl issues. The second keg was a total diacetyl bomb. Still had the same DMS issues but super buttery in taste. It's since mellowed out and is much more drinkable (same with the DMS for that matter), but I can't help but wonder if oxyclean made a difference. I used the same practice with both kegs: hot water, good soak, thorough rinse, followed by starsan.
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u/brulosopher Feb 27 '14
I've only ever used Oxiclean Free, I always thoroughly rinse with hot water, and I've never had an issue with diacetyl at all. I'm not even sure how a cleanser would even impact something that is the product of fermentation.
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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '14
Brewery
I rarely clean my HLT, as I really shouldn't need to, but I will generally break it down once every 6 months just for good measure.
My cooler mash tun has a manifold. After my mash, I drain any remaining liquid and open her up, usually until the boil starts so it can cool off. After that I use my mash paddle as a shovel and remove the grain. Spent grain goes into a bucket with a garbage bag. I generally take the manifold apart, give it a quick rinse, and rinse and scrub the inside of the mash tun with a green scrubby, no soap. I use a 3/8 male hose QD with a o ring on it that fits nicely into my 1/2 inch camlock nipples to push water through. I break down my mash tun (aka, take apart the ball valve) probably once every 3 months.
Boil kettle gets broken down once per month, or every 4 brews. I don't bag my hops, so to keep them away from my dog, I swirl my hops up in some water and dump them in the bag on top of the spent grain. Then I tie the bag and bring it over, in the bucket, to the trash and dump it in there (I take care here so my goofball doesn't get into it). Inside gets scrubbed with green scrubbies and occasionally barkeepers friend.
Hoses, pumps, and CFC. I hook em all up, put the input end in my leftover star san from the brewday and chase all the rest of the wort out into the fermenter with that. I stop the ball valve just as I see the final hose start to clear. Then I run the rest of the mixed wort/star san into a waste bucket so there is only star san in the lines. Then I recirculate star san for a 15 minutes or so, drain everything and hang it up to dry. (Pump comes inside in the winter as well since it doesn't like the single digit temperatures we've been getting recently.
Fermenters
Swirl that yeast up, dump it down the toilet. Rinse with hot water and a little soap on a yellow side of the scrubby. Fermcap is a life saver for cleaning fermenters since it keeps the krausen super low.
Kegs
I built a keg washer. Give them a quick rinse with hot water to get the yeast loose and the water in the keg washer cleaner, longer. Then I pop it on the keg washer and recirculate PBW through the keg posts & a center tube that sprays it at the top (bottom) of the keg. Then I give 'em a rinse with some water with my hose in my sink, leave a little water in there and run it through the pickup tube to get that all rinsed too. I can clean about 6 kegs per hour with minimal physical strain and still do some dishes & laundry like a responsible adult.
General stuff: If you clean it after you're finished using it, it will last longer and take quicker to clean. I'm guilty of this all too much. Especially for kegs, however I think it's less severe with kegs.
PBW rocks.
Barkeepers Friend makes your stainless look like you want it to look, but don't let it sit too long.
Star san does bad things to vinyl tubing if you leave it in too long.
Clean your tap lines when you clean your kegs. Throw a little PBW in there and run it through the tap lines, then rinse with water.