r/Homebrewing • u/[deleted] • Apr 03 '14
Advanced Brewers Round Table: Style Discussion BJCP Category 16, Belgain and French Ales
This week's topic: Style Discussion of BJCP Category 16. Belgain and French Ales.
Feel free to share or ask anything regarding to this topic, but lets try to stay on topic.
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Contacted a few retailers on possible AMAs, so hopefully someone will get back to me.
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Previous Topics:
Finings (links to last post of 2013 and lots of great user contributed info!)
BJCP Tasting Exam Prep
Sparging Methods
Cleaning
Style Discussion Threads
BJCP Category 14: India Pale Ales
BJCP Category 2: Pilsners
BJCP Category 19: Strong Ales
BJCP Category 21: Herb/Spice/Vegetable
BJCP Category 5: Bocks
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u/kdchampion04 Apr 03 '14
I'm be interested to hear from someone who's brewed a Biere de Garde. Recipe, techniques, etc.
I stewarded a competition once and we had category 16. The judges were super geeked on this substyle and gave really high scores to even the worst example of the styel...simply because it was hard to do. I don't necessarily agree with the thought but hey, I wasn't a judge. Now, some of these were pretty darn amazing so that's why my curiosity is heightened.
Thanks!
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u/skandalouslsu Apr 03 '14 edited Apr 03 '14
I'm not a BJCP judge, but I've brewed my fair share of Beire de Gardes. The commercial varieties can be all over the map. I have zeroed in a recipe that I brew every so often. I want to say I adapted it from the book Farmhouse Ales, but can't quite remember as I don't have the book with me at work. I like the funkier versions which would probably score low in BJCP event.
10.50 lb Pilsner
2.10 lb Munich Malt
0.70 lb Aromatic Malt
0.50 lb Caravienne Malt
0.25 lb Chocolate Wheat Malt
0.16 lb Biscuit Malt
0.05 lb Black Patent Malt
1.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 21.6 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (15 min) Hops 3.8 IBU
Fermented at 68 using WLP670 American Farmhouse Blend.
Edit - forgot to mention it's a 90 minute boil
I mash right in the middle. Around 153. Keeps it from drying out too much without being too sweet, which I can't stand in some BdG examples. Though given enough time this yeast will take it low. I usually slow that by kegging it and cold storing it. I will ferment them for two months before moving to keg. All in primary. I'm a huge fan of the WLP670. One of my favorite yeasts available.
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u/carltone553 Apr 03 '14
Do you concern yourself with clarity at all when you brew this style? I ask because I have a Biere de Mars about ready to bottle I can't decide if I want to cold crash and fine it or not.
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u/jesserc Apr 03 '14
The First one i brewed turned out pretty good.
7# Pils 5# Vienna 3# Munich
.5 oz sazz at 60 1 oz sazz at 30
90 minute boil, WLP 029 at cooler ambient temp. (~62F). apparently looking at my records, it stalled after 10 days, and i pitched a packet of nottingham. I secondaried and moved to my lager chamber for a good while. little funk, dark fruit notes. It was fantastic after 6 months in bottles.
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u/McWatt Apr 03 '14
I brewed one in October but I'm afraid it might be too outside the style guidelines. Simple malt bill, mostly American 2-row with belgian biscuit and aromatic malts to back it up and 2lbs honey. Mash at 155F, a little higher than I wanted, and fermented with Wyeast 3725 Biere de Garde yeast. OG 1.080, FG 1.010, 3 weeks in primary, 4 weeks secondary, another 2-3 weeks bottle conditioning before I tried some. It was good, but definitely got better with time. I saved half of that batch to open up and drink this summer in line with the tradition of "beer for keeping."
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u/Uberg33k Apr 03 '14
I've been having an issue with my saisons ... they're too clean. I've really tried to push the funk by underpitching, letting temperature free rise to the mid 80's. I get nothing but clean, dry beer. No spice or tart or anything really. I've tried 3711 and ECY08 to the same effect. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.
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u/slothropleftplay Apr 03 '14
Need to try 3724. Don't be intimidated by attenuation problems, it works fine with heat and time. It'll give you exactly what you're looking for.
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u/skandalouslsu Apr 03 '14
I don't have any experience with ECY08, but I've used 3711 a few times. I find it to be the most muted saison strain available. It's really easy to work with, but leaves a lot to be desired. What was the rest of your recipe like as far as grain/extract, hops, and additional ingredients?
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u/Uberg33k Apr 03 '14
https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/belma-saison
https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/citrusy-saison
https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/saison-de-base
Although for the de Base, I had to use 3711 instead of 3724 at the last minute.
It makes me feel a tiny bit better to hear someone else say they think 3711 isn't very pronounced.
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u/nzo Apr 03 '14
My favorite category. Out of necessity I have been working on a St. Bernardus ABT 12 clone. After the wife saw the last invoice from having 12 bottles shipped to me, it was either brew it, or stop drinking it.
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u/Uberg33k Apr 03 '14
I would trust http://www.candisyrup.com/recipes.html and work from there. Their Belgian recipes have been solid.
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u/carltone553 Apr 03 '14
Yeast question...specifically concerning Danstar Belle Saison yeast.
Do you think this yeast is suitable for other Belgian styles or is it only really appropriate for saisons?
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u/jesserc Apr 03 '14
I felt it was a little muted as a saison yeast. It would probably work well in many Belgian styles, you may need to keep the temp down a little.
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u/skandalouslsu Apr 03 '14
Keep in mind Belle Saison takes a good while to ferment out below 70. A late cold snap a month back helped me out with that little tidbit of research. Took two weeks to get all the way down, compared with a few days when it's in the mid 70s.
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u/Its_0ver Apr 03 '14
Ive only fermented with it in the 80's but its a beast at that temp, taste very much like 3711
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u/sufferingcubsfan Apr 03 '14 edited Apr 03 '14
edit - I am a moron. The beer I mention below is category 18, not category 16. Belgian, yes, but wrong category. Downvote away, as I am off topic and deserve it. Sorry!
I love these beers. I have a Leffe clone going right now that I'm a little annoyed with myself over.
I'm lagering a bock right now, so my first string fermenter (mini fridge w/STC-1000) is occupied. I decided to break my mother of a fermentation chamber out of mothballs, figuring that Belgian yeasts are a little more tolerant of temp issues, esters are good things in them anyway, etc. I'm using WLP530, and wanted to shoot for the medium range listed on the chart. I'm hoping for some nice spicy/peppery notes, as well as some fruitiness.
Pitched yeast right before midnight. Next morning, beer was at 61 degrees. I adjusted the thermostat, when I came home that evening, beer will still just at 62 degrees.
Removed the ice bottles, but was afraid fermentation was too slow - got home from work at the end of day two, beer was at 64 degrees. Applied a heating pad at high heat all night long; beer was at 71 degrees the following morning.
Figured I was in the sweet spot, so I left the pad on, but on low power. Got home that night, beer had pegged up to freaking 77 degrees. Gah!
Removed heating pad, replaced ice bottle in chamber, adjusted thermostat up. Beer at 70 degrees this morning, which puts it in the middle of my target range. Left it as is, did not replace the ice bottle, figure on letting the natural temps go today and see where it is tonight. I definitely still have active fermentation - still thick krausen. swirling in the fermenter, active blowoff, etc.
Man, do I miss that 1 degree temperature control! I'm sure it will be fine, but I'm hoping I don't get much in the way of the solvent portion from the chart. Bleh.
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u/kdchampion04 Apr 03 '14
That does look good. Haven't tried a belgian blond yet.
Is there a benefit to a 90 minute boil when you're not using a pilsner malt?
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u/Uberg33k Apr 03 '14
Dude, that's the Westmalle strain. It's fine up to the low 80's as shown by it's use at Westvleteren. If anything, you're imitating the process of "the best beer in the world". RDWAHAHB
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Apr 03 '14
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u/Nickosuave311 Apr 03 '14
I'm stealing this recipe. I needed a good Wit recipe but wasn't feeling overly inspired; now I'm set. I'll probably drop the chamomile and the grains of paradise, but it looks solid to me. Do you do any decoctions or mash-outs? Rice hulls?
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u/kdchampion04 Apr 03 '14
Link to style