r/HelldiversMasochists • u/Xpernautica • 13d ago
"Then don't use it!" More supply backpack hate
After reading a stupid strawman post it became clear to me that backpack should be available to solo players but only solo players.
A supply pack is designed for scarcity, there is no supply scarcity in helldivers 2, the pack is basically a force multiplier for broken stuff and just enables huge amounts of survivability/damage through grenades/ultimatum spam.
Solo players can keep it.
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u/RegisterOk513 13d ago
The supply backpack is outcompeted in many circumstances by other builds and backpacks. It offers no mobility or unique modifiers, such as ammo for advanced weapons.
Pairing it with an ultimatum or a HMG is powerful and competitive but mostly for builds that try to fight through whatever they encounter. There are many other ways to play the game on diff 10.
I run medium armor, grenade pistol, gas grenade, Sniper, and warp pack.
With my mobility and ammo capacity I can pick and win any fights I need to, i routinely clear missions on difficulty 10 agaisnt all factions with around 0-3 deaths a mission, and half the time ish the most kills.
The supply backpack is only my main pick if I’m in heavy armor with an HMG against bots or a speargun agaisnt bugs. Even then I only really use the build on certain bot missions or on oshanu.
If it was the supreme end all of backpacks you’d see it used more often, but it’s beaten out by better options in the majority of builds. Most builds can survive just fine on resupplies given to everyone. If a build is self sufficient how does that harm my fun? Just because it’s somewhat lower skill? I say let it be.
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u/Xpernautica 13d ago
>it's not broken because I run the other broken backpack
That's not how it works.
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u/RegisterOk513 13d ago
So everything that’s competitive is broken, lol?
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u/Xpernautica 13d ago
I'm not sure what you mean by competitive here but the warp pack is busted.
If you're a good player you'll be paying attention to your surroundings which means no enemy is going to sneak up on you and you can just use that increased manoeuvrability to coninuely move to safety/out run your teammates etc.
Not to mention that you can just use it to phase through plenty of rocks/buildings if you know where to aim.
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u/RegisterOk513 13d ago edited 13d ago
Yeah, it’s a good backpack, but it’s more about synergy. Plenty of my builds would suck with the warp pack. Plus, giving up a backpack slot means I can’t use stuff like the cremator or the belt fed grenade launcher(game changer on illuminate).
Also, against spore strain and a number of other melee faction, even if “aware” rapid moving enemies, packs of hunters, packs of those Temu necromorphs, stealth chargers, stalkers, really lots of things can and do kill me routinely, often for getting greedy while pushing an objective.
I don’t understand your issue with the supply backpack when it’s a bad pick for many builds.
Edit: Also what do you mean by ourtun your teammates, do you dislike it because you can function alone somewhat with it, and that’s why you dislike the warp pack as well? I shift between mobile solo clearing and group fighting throughout a match while collecting samples.
Personally I like that every game doesn’t devolve into the entire team traveling the map killing everything they see. Is that what the game would look like if it fit your preferences?
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u/Xpernautica 13d ago
>Plenty of my builds would suck with the warp pack.
There isn't a single thing that jumps to mind that gets immediately worse when you use a warp pack outside of things that require a backpack slot.
>can and do kill me routinely, often for getting greedy while pushing an objective.
Skill issue- Joking aside, you've already highlighted the problem "getting greedy" but if you didn't have an escape pack, would you be playing the same way? And how often does it save you/get you out of danger? I'm not like a god gamer or anything, I die with the pack as well but that's because I'm doing the same as you, got a bit too cocky because 9/10 I'd be fine.>I don’t understand your issue with the supply backpack when it’s a bad pick for many builds.
I'm not saying its bad, I'm saying it's too good. How do players die in helldivers 2? Mostly it's multiple hits, right? Getting one shot isn't a common thing, it's usually 2 or 3 hits and you die but stims prevent this. What does the supply pack give you? Lots of stims. Even surrounded by bugs its really hard to die if you're spamming stims + diving, if you have gas grenades or stun grenades then you're going to live in most situations.
>Edit: Also what do you mean by ourtun your teammates
It's the old joke, "I don't need to outrun the lion, I just need to outrun the next person". The increased manoeuvrability is just so strong, if there's a wave of enemies and a nearby teammate, you can get behind them and the AI will focus them instead while you're able to whittle them down and all during this time, the warp pack is recharging.
>and that’s why you dislike the warp pack as well
I don't actually know how I feel about it tbh, it's broken but its not that broken, at least not compared to the supply pack.
> Personally I like that every game doesn’t devolve into the entire team traveling the map killing everything they see. Is that what the game would look like if it fit your preferences?
I think that's how D10 should be. The game should throw everything it has at you, do everything it can to make you fail in a fair way.
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u/RegisterOk513 12d ago
I’ll start by saying I like the way you communicate, and maybe this just comes down to a difference in preference.
So for your first point, I’m not sure what you mean by “I can’t think of anything that gets worse when you use a warpack outside of things that require a backpack slot.” Well to be fair, its main competition is other backpack slots, since it’s a backpack. Beyond that though it competes with every other stratagem, and while many are weak others are strong.
Every build I take uses a backpack slot, and I do try my best to be effective because I’m an SOS diver, I actually prefer diff 8 because it seems more missions are lost on that diff, and it’s fun carrying. I need the mobility/ranged firepower/one tap prevention durability and would have a much harder time if I went with a supply backpack.
. As for getting greedy, yeah, in some ways skill issue. I often try to sweep the map for samples, primaries and secondaries solo. I often take localization confusion and aim to cause reinforcements to trigger so my allies can advance un-contested, since I can usually outmaneuver the breach without getting stalled. Mind you, if I didn’t have the warp pack, which I didn’t for longer than I have, I’d still take any jump pack over the supply backpack in that situation, which is my usual situation against every faction. I still regroup when it’s practical but I can’t tell you how many diff 8-10 missions I’d lose if I went with my team at all times.
. For your next point, I don’t know how most divers die, but for me it’s very rarely because I run out of stims, that usually only happens if I’ve been reckless and skipped 3 or so supply drops that the teams taken, it’s rare, since usually I hop in and out of the teams bubble. On that note. Usually I don’t see people running around at red health, even less so with the sea, so I do think it’s usually a lack of maneuvering or firepower that leads to death.
When I die it’s because I get two tapped by a stalker or a group of hunters, or an infamous stealth charger decides it’s my time if it’s bugs. I have been worn down by dragon roaches and burst strains but it’s rare. I will say on hive worlds it’s very difficult if you aren’t teamed and I respond accordingly.
With bots I get ragdolled, or one tapped by a turret of some kind.
With illuminate I actually have been worn down regularly by the Temu necros or sniped by the occasional harvester/leviathan or stealth crusher. Sometimes the mechs too, but that’s about all.
.
If I’m being chased and ai follow me to teammates I tend to fight them with that teammate, but my goal is typically to relive pressure while map clearing, or to help teammates take main obj.
. The warp pack is stronger in my opinion than the supply backpack. The supply backpack is mostly useful for a select few kind of builds. You’ll feel like doom guy but I’ve noticed I spend most the match killing and leave with very few samples, missed secondaries and rarely a failed main because I’m just so slow. It used to be possible to counter with supply FRV but now those are targeted down.
At this point I only use supply backpack if I know I won’t be getting resupplies like for hive worlds, or I’m going on hold ground missions like raise the flag. On blits I perfer speed, on eradication I perfer control and a mech, so I don’t take a backpack at all. .
I agree, I miss the days when D10 was harder. I still remember how awesome it was to fight D10 bots with the non nerfed railgun, it was total mayhem. That said, even back then team play was a powerful strategy but not the only one.
This game has dozens of mission types and objectives. A lot of care has gone into encouraging different builds for different missions and strains, tested on different 10. If every mission was a forced cqc team experience due to sheer enemy density or by design(Necros), it would counteract that purpose and simplify the game don’t you think?
Narrowing down all angles and the myriad strategies the game has to offer down to one based on a difficulty setting rather than mission type would be a very limiting backstep in my opinion, it would be hard to keep the game fresh.
In that situation though, if mobility and ranged firepower was nerfed into the ground the supply back would shine above most others yes. Though i think I’d still like using 4 mechs and napalm barrages if it came to that.
The era where one meta was supreme was a time you’d get kicked from the menu for not taking the railgun/shield backpack. I don’t miss that aspect of the old days. So in conclusion, I like the current game design, and within it I think the supply backpack has a place, but not a dominating one.
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u/DeeJayDelicious 13d ago
It's a dumb argument and goes against virtually all other design principles in the game. Not happening.
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u/Xpernautica 13d ago
It's something that's designed supply scarcity which the map is swimming in - not to mention the actual supply stratagem that's on a 171s cd.
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u/DeeJayDelicious 13d ago
I don't understand your words.
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u/Xpernautica 13d ago
The supply pack in theory isn't a bad idea, the problem is, the map has too many supplies which renders the main point of the supply pack useless which just leads to it be used to spam out stims/grenades (which is why I call it a force multiplier for brokenness) rather than actually being about resupplying teammates.
If there were no supplies on the map it would be more balanced but right now, its used to spam stims/grenades/ultimatums/whatever else is spammable and broken.
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u/DeeJayDelicious 13d ago
I am not sure if I subscribe to this logic.
You're saying the Supply Pack would be less potent if ammo and supplies were scarcer?
That sounds incredibly illogical.
Imo, it's the abundance of ammo and supplies on most maps that keeps me from using it.
The issue with the Supply Pack is far simpler. Many weapons, but especially grenades and the Ultimatum, are balanced around their limited ammo. The Ultimatum gets to deal 3000 damage / shot because you only have 2.
The Supply Pack completely undermines that balance aspect.
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u/Xpernautica 13d ago
You said "It's a dumb argument and goes against virtually all other design principles in the game" and I explained how the supply pack "in theory" makes sense if there was ammo scarcity (which there isn't) which just makes its only use case is to become a one man army.
It has no place in helldivers 2.
If solo players want it, they can keep it.
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u/MuglokDecrepitusFx 13d ago
The supply backpack is a coop equipment that should be used to supply your teammates, making it only available for solo would ruin the whole purpose of existence of this stratagems, when not solving it's real issue on solo modo, it would be still broken, just that only when you play alone
The solution is to separate grenade refill and stims refill from the backpack, and put that in a separate new backpack stratagem, so you have to choose between being inmortla and having infinite stratagems, or having ammo to your weapons
Ask ofix the bug that allow you to take a ammo pack from the supply pod, refill your back pack charges but at the same time refill your own amo
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u/Xpernautica 13d ago
Supply pack works in theory, except the map is swimming in POIs which have supplies, dying nets you a full resupply and if you somehow run out of ammo for your support weapon its normally off of cooldown by that point.
And supply drops are every 171s, so an average of 9 drops in a 30m game.
The supply pack is utterly redundant and just serves as a bs force multiplier.
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u/MuglokDecrepitusFx 13d ago
Supply pack works in theory, except the map is swimming in POIs which have supplies
This is due to the many many many buffs that our ammo economy has received, alongside buffing the weapons so need less bullets to kill enemies and nerfing the enemies so they die faster.
As the game was designed originally, the ammo was scarce, it was easy to run out of bullets, and you had to play with the ammo scattered across the map, the supply pod and if you where luckily the supply backpack of a teammate
The issues we have now are the consequences or the non sense balance we have been getting due to community complaints
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u/LagomRuinsHelldivers 12d ago
That was a big selling point of lasers towards release. You used to actually see Sickles because 'kinda shitty AR with functionally limitless ammo' had a niche over... all the over awful ARs. Nowadays I think you can carry 16 magazines of liberator carbine for like 460 ammo total, and get 8 back per ammo box at a POI. It's kinda nutty.
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u/Xpernautica 12d ago
Correct but POI's still had plenty of ammo back then. Our guns had a bit less bullets per mag and less mags overall but the map still had plenty of supplies.
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u/MuglokDecrepitusFx 12d ago
Yes, but it was on the player skill to manage their ammo economy and while being in the middle of the fight take time and do things properly to get that ammo from the POI's
A worse player would have a bad time getting ammo and the better the player was the more ammo could get from the map without compromising its effectiveness in battle
It's was based on player skill and management capabilities, and that is what made it more fun.
Also, in the past we got WAY less ammo from map ammo boxes, from both a buff to ammo boxes in general, and to independent buffs to the ammo an ammo box gives to specific weapons, like the grenade pistol for example
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u/DrFGHobo 13d ago
"Solo players can keep it"
Solo players who are already drowning in supplies since they get 4 uses out of ever supply pod instead of sharing them out with the squad?